[Iain0] CPTANT - Note appeal AI lawset
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:57 pm
BYOND account: CPTANT
Character name: Sam Lineman
Note type: Permanent
Note reason: As captain, set silicons to only have the law "1: Prevent revolutionary takeover of the station by any means neccesary", with no additional laws. Spoken to about the possible dangers of this lawset offering no protections and giving compulsion to harm anyone who could be revolutionary. Asked to take more care about law sets in future and that they may be liable for consequences of law sets uploaded.
Time ban was placed: 2022-12-19 20:21:55
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 196613
Your side of the story:
I was captain this round. CMO got murdered and in around ~25 instances people were shouting revs, revs real, revs confirmed etc from multiple people. Someone broke into the bridge firing lasers, I got chased down the hallway with spears, people were trying to blow up the brig and the overall state of the station was awful so I though there was a far gone revolution and uploaded the anti rev laws. (Hilariously turns out there were no revs and it was other antags going around killing everyone).
Why you think the note should be removed:
I just don't think this law was against rev policy as also stated in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=85&t=34141
Most importantly I feel like this note implies a ban on these types of laws when shit hits the fan for command which I do not think is in line with headmin ruling on the topic.
Anything else we should know: I don't really care about the particulars of this specific round, more about policy.
Character name: Sam Lineman
Note type: Permanent
Note reason: As captain, set silicons to only have the law "1: Prevent revolutionary takeover of the station by any means neccesary", with no additional laws. Spoken to about the possible dangers of this lawset offering no protections and giving compulsion to harm anyone who could be revolutionary. Asked to take more care about law sets in future and that they may be liable for consequences of law sets uploaded.
Time ban was placed: 2022-12-19 20:21:55
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 196613
Your side of the story:
I was captain this round. CMO got murdered and in around ~25 instances people were shouting revs, revs real, revs confirmed etc from multiple people. Someone broke into the bridge firing lasers, I got chased down the hallway with spears, people were trying to blow up the brig and the overall state of the station was awful so I though there was a far gone revolution and uploaded the anti rev laws. (Hilariously turns out there were no revs and it was other antags going around killing everyone).
Why you think the note should be removed:
I just don't think this law was against rev policy as also stated in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=85&t=34141
The law didn't state to kill anyone and nobody was killed by the AI, just to take the actions required to prevent revolutionary takeover. "by any means necessary" is effectively fluff because laws are always by any means necessary. In fact I would very much think an AI would get in trouble for killing crewmembers without justification since it clearly doesn't further the stated goal as is the case with any other ai lawset, including how asimov treats non humans.by Timberpoes » Sun May 28, 2023 11:36 pm #687819
There's always a line as crew where the only option left is to kill everything without a mindshield until you either win or lose.
It depends entirely on the IC factors, but the closer the mindshielded crew is to losing, the more power they have to kill anyone or anything that doesn't have a mindshield.
Also when you're out of or low on mindshields, you can't easily get any more and it's not practicable to non-lethally detain people anymore.
There's definitely a point where the mindshielded crew can enter fight-for-your-life mode. And if it doesn't have a mindshield, it dies or you do until the revolution is quelled or the heads die in a blaze of blood and glory.
Most importantly I feel like this note implies a ban on these types of laws when shit hits the fan for command which I do not think is in line with headmin ruling on the topic.
Anything else we should know: I don't really care about the particulars of this specific round, more about policy.