Paprika ban appeal

Appeals which have been closed.

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paprika
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Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:23 pm #98001

Byond account and character name: Paprka
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Everythiiiiing
Ban reason and length: Literally toxic, killing the community, saying things in IRC
Your side of the story: A long spree of generally inconsiderate changes were made to the code by me that I knew people would disagree with, even the majority of posters on the forums would disagree with, but I knew they would be merged because the people in charge of the codebase would agree with me. And it wasn't just making unfavorable changes, it was being a dick about them and also in the IRC about some other things that I don't wish to dig up since it's that story has been retold a stupid amount of times. I formed a pretty shit personality of 'I can do what I want and nothing will happen' in regards to coding and unlike other people who still do this I rubbed some people's noses in it and acted confrontational and paranoid and stupid. Then I got banned from the code and forums and this extended into a blacklisting which then carried over into a server ban.
Why you think you should be unbanned: Whether or not you agree with my changes to the code or my attitude while coding (which was terrible, and I've been banned from the code, irc, and forums as a result) I still like playing ss13 on this server and have had a relatively good behavior in-game for a long time. I won't be a 'category 5 drama hurricane' as Scaredy once put it, but a lot of stuff in /tg/'s code is a product of many months of my labor and it's the only server that I really give a shit about playing on after devoting so much time to improving it and adding a lot of features.

I don't ask to be unbanned from the code or the forums. I had a lot of free time and spent it shitposting and shitcoding for the sake of some sense of fulfillment. I don't need it anymore, and I just want to play spacemen on a server that I've probably shittalked numerous times(but still less than other servers).



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Stickymayhem
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:48 pm #98003

The probation would be extreme. Any sign of your former attitude and you're out.

I imagine it's been a long and serious enough ban that you understand not being an asshole would be to your benefit. That's going to extend to OOC and deadchat as well if you get unbanned.

The blacklist was a bit excessive, though the permaban, I think, was the only thing that would have given you the opportunity to figure this out for real.

Anyway this thread is open to the usual ammendment stuff but don't push it. I'm not going to be anal about precise logs and evidence because it's unreasonable for everyone to have those all the time, especially over something that happened several months ago. That said, keep it calm and reasonable or you'll get deleted. The headmins agreed to this appeal being allowed.
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Saegrimr
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Saegrimr » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:08 pm #98006

As someone whose gone the regular rounds with Paprika on the forums, i've really found nothing bad about his conduct in-game. I've had more than a few choice words about the code but that's irrelevant currently.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby onleavedontatme » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:18 pm #98007

I object to this because it makes the blacklist pointless. I object because you were acting like this when I left and acting the same way but worse when I got back two years later. I dont think you're going to magically change now nor do I think you're owed the chance.

Why give infinite chances to people who act shitty?

Hell OOC shittiness is probably worse than bombing something ingame anyway. I just don't see it being worth the work to make special exceptions for people who openly and hostily express their dislike of most of the community.

As I recall they're on the blacklist for evading a github ban so how much weight does "I swear I wont engage with the community" carry anyway?


(In case it wasn't clear I was not around for voting to approve this)

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AdenAbrafo
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby AdenAbrafo » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:31 pm #98010

I made the original ban request.
Paprika openly expressed his dislike of the admins, players, other coders and tgstation entirely. On occasion he would even go on about how he would never be banned for being an abrasive dick if someone mentioned he should be. On occasion he grudgecoded and even admitted to it I think. He is a terrible person who has been blacklisted before. There is no reason he should be given another chance.

Scott
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Scott » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:33 pm #98012

I have never had any problem with paprika's IC (I can't comment on OOC behavior) and that's all I can say in favor.

Edit: I would not mind an unban from the servers.

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Vekter
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Vekter » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:54 pm #98018

Paprika has had his first, second and third chance, and he pissed all three away. He has shown nothing but toxic behavior on all fronts save for actually playing the game.

Unbanning him would do nothing but undermine the concept of the blacklist by showing players they can be a completely unrepentant cunt and still get back in with a few kind words.

I'm not going to give my usual "if you were unbanned" line here because it's not happening. You've proven time and time again that you aren't going to change. If you really gave a shit about this server, you would have changed years ago.

E: If we are talking strictly game behavior, we've had worse players.
Last edited by Vekter on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TechnoAlchemist
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby TechnoAlchemist » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:56 pm #98019

In the time that I played paprika seemed to be a decent enough human being, from what I saw he was a rather pleasant person both IC and OOC. I harbor no ill will against them and would be glad for them to come back albeit with a probation.

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lumipharon
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby lumipharon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:07 pm #98036

Pap wasn't unusually shit IC, but when you get all the warnings, and the ban evade, and the blacklist, why would anyone give him another chance?
When ever anyone brings up ye olde shitters, the first thing I notice is how people say they kept getting chances, and never fucking changed.

Pap had plenty of time and chances to not be shit, and he fucked them all up. Why would he change now? The last appeal said the same thing.

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:11 pm #98037

Kor wrote:I just don't see it being worth the work to make special exceptions for people who openly and hostily express their dislike of most of the community.

Where is this "most of the community" figure even coming from? If I don't sing people's praises in addition to riffing on some people, suddenly I hate everyone?

lumipharon wrote:Pap had plenty of time and chances to not be shit, and he fucked them all up. Why would he change now? The last appeal said the same thing.

To pretty much everyone saying this, couldn't I have ban evaded on github for like months now if I planned on touching the code again? Despite what the Paprika githhub alt-hunting defense force thinks I'm not really in a mood to touch the codebase anymore.

The reason I ban evaded on github was because it seemed like people were going 'lol pap got banned make revert prs for his shit without even thinking them through' which is why I bothered to make an alt account to shitpost in Mandurrh's taser delay PR.

Which was closed, because it wasn't thought through at all, and everyone in charge of the code agreed with me on this, so really I was just acting in the interest of not having godlike taser spam again, despite having 0 reason to do so. I undoubtedly think that without ban evading there, it would have been merged. I fell on the sword knowing SoS would get pissed at me and likely ban me from the server again because it meant a lot to me and I was upset.

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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby peoplearestrange » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:19 pm #98040

Your in game attitude never seemed like much of a problem. However your attitude on both github (towards the playerbase) and the forums (towards most) was certainly foul. A few times we spoke and it always worried me that you never seemed to see the crap as anything more than a joke, you never saw the effect you actually had on people and didnt really seem to understand that your actions and words HAVE an effect on people and the community. I want you to prove me wrong, however I have a lot of doubts.

My 2pence would be to give them a chance under heavy probation and any slight or dickish behaviour would warrant the ban being put back on. Though maybe I'm being too trusting...

Kor wrote:I object to this because it makes the blacklist pointless.

The blacklist is more of a "they need headmin/host approval to get un-perma banned" as opposed to the usual "banning admin can undo a perma without permssion from the others".
Whatever
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:singulo.io is the center point of rational and calm debate, where much of tg's issues are worked out in a fun and family friendly environment

miggles wrote:it must have been quite the accomplishment, killing a dead butterfly

WeeYakk wrote:If you take a step back from everything watching the community argue janitor related changes is one of the most surreal and hilarious things about this game. Four pages of discussing the merits of there being too much or too little dirt in a video game.

Operative wrote:Vote PAS for headmin! Get cucked and feel good getting cucked.

TheNightingale wrote:I want to get off Mr. Scones's Wild Ride...

NikNakFlak wrote:Excuse you, I was doing intentional bug testing for the well being of the server. I do not make mistakes.

Fragnostic wrote:stop cucking the first shitshow ever that revolved around me.
This is my moment, what are you doing?!

Anonmare wrote:Oranges gestures at the thread, it shudders and begins to move!

Saegrimr wrote:
callanrockslol wrote:all you have to do is ban shitters until the playbase improves/ceases to exist, whichever comes first.

IM TRYING

Screemonster wrote:hellmoo is the mud for grown adults who main reaper in overwatch

Kor wrote:
confused rock wrote:...its like if we made fire extinguishers spawn in emergency boxes and have them heal you when you put out fires rather than them being in wall storages...


Are you having a stroke

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lumipharon
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby lumipharon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:38 pm #98043

I can't remember if you were banned in game at that point, but you could have either just
A: Trusted people to not merge it
B: Asked someone else to quote you or something.

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ColonicAcid
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby ColonicAcid » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:50 pm #98047

Paprika was never bad in game. I still believe that the punishment in game was a step too far in terms of punishment.

Just ensure that he stays away from all forms of OOC power like coding and admin or whatever and let him play this shitty space men game everyone wins.

mrpain
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby mrpain » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:51 pm #98048

His in game attitude was fine from what I remember.

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:57 pm #98051

lumipharon wrote:I can't remember if you were banned in game at that point, but you could have either just
A: Trusted people to not merge it
B: Asked someone else to quote you or something.

I was butthurt. Mandurrh was one of the people who vilified me on the forums and got me banned in the first place. I should have been patient, it was a huge mistake, one I shouldn't be forgiven for as far as the codebase is concerned. I chose the path of least resistance and just capslock ranted about stuns and shit because I've been working on stuns in the /tg/ codebase and trying to balance that shit since fucking November

In the end a tiny taser delay probably doesn't mean much to anyone else. It also probably shouldn't have mattered to me and it doesn't anymore. I just wanna play again and will keep my nose out of that shit, I promise. Nobody has a reason to trust me here, either, and I know that. But a lot of people are still here rather than going to other servers or fucking off after they get banned, because it's a good server. Maybe there isn't any good ss13 server or whatever but it's at least the best of what's available, hub servers are really bad.

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Vekter
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Vekter » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:12 pm #98053

The only experience I had with Paprika was when he made a PR to remove stun revolvers from Research. All I did was ask him why, and what followed was the most up-front, unwarranted hostility I've experienced outside of a MOBA.

He was a shitty person in IRC, the code base and forums. I see no reason he can be trusted with anything.

I posit this compromise. If we're actually going to turn this into 2beard 2.0, I request that Pap be perma-muted from OOC and deadchat. Let him play and nothing else .

I'd also like a formal apology for the whole suicide thing, but that's more on a personal level.
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Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

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Falamazeer
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Falamazeer » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:21 pm #98055

Where was terbs special treatment when his appeal was denied after the whole suicide thing was brought up? It was the final nail in his coffin, The same should hold true here either way.
Besides, I'd like these guys saying his IC was fine to tell me his name, Because apparently it wasn't john paprika (Or something like that) like I thought it was, And if it was, his IC was definitely not fine.

onleavedontatme
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby onleavedontatme » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:23 pm #98057

I'm on my phone so I dont want to dig through old forum posts but I swear I remember you saying you were glad your changes upset [powergamers/validhunters/something] because you didnt care what they thought/you disliked them. And those people, for better or worse, are the majority on sybil. I'm willing to concede being mistaken on that point though rather than continuing to argue in a thread with a foregone conclusion.

I would be immensely surprised if 2 headmins voted to deny your appeal after voting to unblacklist you.

I'll also be immensely surprised if you dont eventually appeal your github/ooc bans in a few months.

Here's to hoping you prove me wrong I guess.

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NikNakFlak
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby NikNakFlak » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:32 pm #98059

It took me awhile but I found the pastebins of the suicide thing they talk about. It really is blown out of the proportion.
http://pastebin.com/Nw6uA3Qe
part 2
http://pastebin.com/3n4GN4Ct
REDACTED
pm for deets

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Shaps-cloud
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Shaps-cloud » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:46 pm #98063

I believe he was Molly Dakota IC, who I never had any problems with

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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Remie Richards » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:53 pm #98065

peoplearestrange wrote:
Kor wrote:I object to this because it makes the blacklist pointless.

The blacklist is more of a "they need headmin/host approval to get un-perma banned" as opposed to the usual "banning admin can undo a perma without permssion from the others".


Kor's point is that the blacklist is it, it's the final point, the end, your name is on here you're done.
We've had people unbanned from it in the past only to repeat their offences.

Unbanning someone else, regardless of if they're any good when they come back reduces the effectiveness of it in the first place.
what's next, 2beard and kavaloosh? No thanks.

As for Paprika, I've literally never played a round with them, so I don't know. Paprika deliberately was an ass to me in some situations, that I'm only aware was deliberate because he actually apologised after the trippleban.
He really would have to be prevented from interacting with the codebase, be that through his own "I don't want to" as he's stated here, or just in general.
Vekter's point of perma ooc and deadsay bans might be fair.

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Wyzack
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Wyzack » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:59 pm #98066

I am a little leery about the blacklist removal, but as long as the git ban is never removed i guess i would not have a problem with it. For what my opinion is worth anyways, which i am sure is very little

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:02 am #98067

The blacklisting was already removed some time ago, apparently.

Falamazeer wrote:Where was terbs special treatment when his appeal was denied after the whole suicide thing was brought up? It was the final nail in his coffin, The same should hold true here either way.
Besides, I'd like these guys saying his IC was fine to tell me his name, Because apparently it wasn't john paprika (Or something like that) like I thought it was, And if it was, his IC was definitely not fine.

Pretty sure that was someone with my name just griefing to be a bellend.

My IC names were Molly Dakota and Wyatt Shields most of the time.

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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Falamazeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:21 am #98070

Shaps wrote:I believe he was Molly Dakota IC, who I never had any problems with

Oh, Yeah, that's even worse, Greytiding hypocritical punkass, Searched my logs and I remember this, Caught hacking EVA as an assistant, Yackity sax forever, shat all over me for "stealing" insulated gloves,which were hucked in evidence, then after we died to nuke ops breaking into armory then blowing themselves up Had this to say for it:

DEAD: Ham Sammich says, "Molly, running and being a shithead to security for no raisen is going to net you a long timer, cooperation is much easier,"
DEAD: Molly Dakota says, "ham being shitcurity doesn't matter to me at all"
DEAD: Molly Dakota says, "it'll just make the greytide a lot more enjoyable for me"


General bad attitude and shitlery.

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:31 am #98071

I remember being an antag that round, you sure it was nook ops?

Also, can I get some log times? I only riff on shitcurity if they do absolutely heinously nazi stuff or I'm an antag, because I play a lot of security.

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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby tedward1337 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:35 am #98072

Was a pretty good detective. Handled IC/in game things well.
Stopped me as a traitor atmos tech so gg
Major T on Steam/IRC/Twitch/everything else.

Game Admin

PM anytime with questions about the server, policies or for fun!



Spoiler:
<hg|work> why do we unban people
OOC: Shaps: pizza status: fucking delivered

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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby whodaloo » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:41 am #98074

I always had fun playing with Molly, for what my two pennies are worth. I think an OOC/maybe dsay ban as a probationary sort of thing would be more than fair, though, considering the history here.

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Falamazeer
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Falamazeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:47 am #98075

December ‎21, ‎2013, ‏‎10:11:46 PM central standard time
Mayan calender day.

You weren't an antag, it was ops.
As in the ops that broke into the armory.



Spoiler:
You fire the taser gun!
Molly Dakota is hit by the electrode in the chest!
Molly Dakota stammers, "Ex-xc-cus-se m-m-me, t-th-hat-t w-w-w-was-s s-st-tol-le fr-r-rom-m m-me."
The stunbaton is now on.
Molly Dakota has been stunned with the stunbaton by Ham Sammich!
You put the stunbaton into the security backpack.
Molly Dakota stammers, "Ok-kay-y-y."
Ham Sammich is trying to put handcuffs on Molly Dakota!
*---------*
This is Molly Dakota!
He is wearing a grey jumpsuit.
He has a satchel on his back.
He has some insulated gloves on his hands.
He has a tool-belt about his waist.
He is wearing some black shoes on his feet.
He has a gas mask on his face.
He has Optical Meson Scanner covering his eyes.
He has a radio headset on his ears.
He is wearing PDA-Molly Dakota (Assistant).
Criminal status: [None]
*---------*
Ham Sammich says, "Bad"
ÿMolly Dakota is restrained, you cannot push past
Molly Dakota says, "Pfff."
Molly Dakota says, "Doctors are pussies."
ÿ!Molly Dakota is buckled in to the bed by Ham Sammich!
Ham Sammich says, "Yep"
Ham Sammich asks, "had to flash my gun, scattered em eh?"
You try to empty Molly Dakota's right pocket.
Maya Winton says, "hey."
Ham Sammich tries to remove Molly Dakota's satchel.
Maya Winton says, "hey."
Ham Sammich tries to remove Molly Dakota's satchel.
Molly Dakota says, "Hurry uppppp"
Ham Sammich tries to remove Molly Dakota's tool-belt.
Maya Winton asks, "can i have his gloves?"
Ham Sammich tries to remove Molly Dakota's insulated gloves.
Ham Sammich tries to remove Molly Dakota's gas mask.
Molly Dakota says, "Wow, no."
Ham Sammich says, "Nope"
Ham Sammich says, "evidence"
Maya Winton says, "well.. you better hop that doesn't .... vanish"
You put the insulated gloves into the security backpack.
Molly Dakota says, "Stealing is very cool."
Molly Dakota says, "Yep"
Valerie Sinnet says, "I DEMAND IMMEDIATE JUSTICE"
Molly Dakota says, "Neat"
Comrade Ivan Bolshakov blinds Miles Buttersworth with the flash!
Peter Vandalmar exclaims, "ZE WRATH OF FRANCE SHALL DESCEND UPON YOU!"
Miles Buttersworth has been stunned with the stunbaton by Ham Sammich!
You put the stunbaton into the security backpack.
Ham Sammich is trying to put handcuffs on Miles Buttersworth!
Miles Buttersworth says, "POLICE BRUTALITY"
Comrade Ivan Bolshakov has kicked Miles Buttersworth!
Miles Buttersworth says, "WHERE IS THE LAWYER"
Molly Dakota says, "You got rekt miles."
Ham Sammich says, "I'm going to be putting your gloves in evidence"
Molly Dakota says, "Stealing is fine yeah go ahead."
Ham Sammich says, "I'll leave you your tools though"
Molly Dakota says, "It's not like you're not allowed to do that or anything."
Ham Sammich says, "Not going to wear them"
Molly Dakota says, "No go on whatever."
Molly Dakota says, "Sure."
Molly Dakota says, "Can you hurry p"
Ham Sammich says, "Ok then, double sentence, for being a shit"
Molly Dakota says, "I've been here for like"
Molly Dakota says, "4 minutes"
Molly Dakota says, "Nice"
Molly Dakota says, "Okay"
Ham Sammich says, "Insulated gloves being checked into evidence"
ÿHam Sammich has thrown the insulated gloves.
Miles Buttersworth exclaims, "HEY! Those are my gloves!"
Ham Sammich says, "No they are not"
Miles Buttersworth exclaims, "Yes, they are!"
Ham Sammich says, "they were found on molly dakota"
Miles Buttersworth says, "I got them when we came into shift. Those are absolutely my gloves."
Ham Sammich says, "I have checked them into evidence"
Ham Sammich says, "And by checked, I mean hucked"
Molly Dakota attempts to unbuckle themself!
Ham Sammich [Security] says, "Insulated gloves checked into evidence against molly dakota"
Ham Sammich says, "Insulated gloves checked into evidence against molly dakota"

A bit later, like... a minute tops

Molly Dakota asks, "Thank fucking shit for syndies. Can you kill like, all of these assholes please?"
Boom, erry body ded.

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Vekter
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Vekter » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:13 am #98080

Falamazeer wrote:Where was terbs special treatment when his appeal was denied after the whole suicide thing was brought up? It was the final nail in his coffin, The same should hold true here either way.
Besides, I'd like these guys saying his IC was fine to tell me his name, Because apparently it wasn't john paprika (Or something like that) like I thought it was, And if it was, his IC was definitely not fine.


In the interest of fairness, Terbs wrote a small essay explaining to a suicidal community member why they should kill themselves (in a very sincere tone at that). Paprika just laughed at someone for failing to commit suicide. It's still shitty, but let's not compare the two.
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Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:18 am #98081

Falamazeer wrote:December ‎21, ‎2013, ‏‎10:11:46 PM central standard time
Mayan calender day.


I'll let the date of that one speak for itself then, I've played a lot more security now and am sympathetic towards sec which is why I did so many things to discourage grey tide in the code and stuff. But really, 2013 dude?

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AdenAbrafo
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby AdenAbrafo » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:32 am #98086

How about this for a reason? He lied last appeal. He was going to be given a chance after being blacklisted but he lied anyway and did something to get himself banned again. This isn't him being sorry, he isn't even saying that he is sorry. This is literally him trying to get unbanned after screwing up so many times because he realized this might be the best there is out there and he is admitting to it.
Why unban him? I can't think of one actual reason beyond wanting to be nice to someone who repeatedly talked about how much grief and inconvenience they wanted to cause people who didn't agree with their vision for the game.
I can think of reasons to keep him banned. He is an abrasive and rude dude and he serves as an example that being a cunt OOC isn't a-okay.

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Falamazeer
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Falamazeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:34 am #98088

I wasn't around for either, or not paying attention, but nobody seemed to have a problem comparing them then, so yeah.
I'm not dredging shit up out of vindictiveness or pettyness, But I'm with kor's train of thought that this isn't going to end with just an unban from playing with the skrubs forever.

Pap shat on a lot of people from on high, and if not deliberately, then retardedly furthered the divide between coders and players to a point it hadn't been since errorage mishandled the banishing of MUH GLUUURVES! Being wildly vocal with the attitude of fuck polls people don't know what they want, and then pushing controversial PRs to enjoy the fallout is not a good way to endear yourself to the community, There is a reason pap is used as an example of how not to behave.

That being said, If it really is just being thrown back in with the general population I'd have not one single objection to it, His IC is shitty but not damningly so.
I play with a lot of cunty players, I wouldn't perma any of them. Well, Not from the server anyways.



@pap That's just what I have logs for, I played nearly all sec since I started, I'm familiar with working under you, you were the "HoS for the sweet gear" kind of player, Which is at least better than the "break it from the inside" HoS types, but not by a lot. Honestly Now that I know who you are, your taser nerfs make even less sense than they did before, yet they remain.

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invisty
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby invisty » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:56 am #98094

Is this thread exempt from the usual FNR rules, or is the issue simply considered so far reaching that everyone has a valid say on the appeal?

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:03 am #98096

Falamazeer wrote:I wasn't around for either, or not paying attention, but nobody seemed to have a problem comparing them then, so yeah.
I'm not dredging shit up out of vindictiveness or pettyness, But I'm with kor's train of thought that this isn't going to end with just an unban from playing with the skrubs forever.

Pap shat on a lot of people from on high, and if not deliberately, then retardedly furthered the divide between coders and players to a point it hadn't been since errorage mishandled the banishing of MUH GLUUURVES! Being wildly vocal with the attitude of fuck polls people don't know what they want, and then pushing controversial PRs to enjoy the fallout is not a good way to endear yourself to the community, There is a reason pap is used as an example of how not to behave.

That being said, If it really is just being thrown back in with the general population I'd have not one single objection to it, His IC is shitty but not damningly so.
I play with a lot of cunty players, I wouldn't perma any of them. Well, Not from the server anyways.



@pap That's just what I have logs for, I played nearly all sec since I started, I'm familiar with working under you, you were the "HoS for the sweet gear" kind of player, Which is at least better than the "break it from the inside" HoS types, but not by a lot. Honestly Now that I know who you are, your taser nerfs make even less sense than they did before, yet they remain.


I never furthered any divide between coders and players. Anyone who's spent a long time as a coder can tell you that coders listening to players is completely voluntary. Player feedback has always been a resource to use as a contributor, not a necessity. Keep in mind I'm more or less paraphrasing Cheridan's own words here.

If you hold other coders, hornygranny, or cheridan responsible for my actions, and think of the coders as some sort of organization beyond the maintainer/headcoder/etc hierarchy, this is your own ignorance, not my doing. I've never had authority within the codebase. I've never had influence on the project. I've simply contributed, something literally, literally, literally anyone reading this can do themselves unless you lack an internet connection or something. My changes weren't accepted because I was anyone's butt-buddy, my changes were accepted because they were good most of the time. Sometimes there were experiments that didn't go so well or had terrible bugs, but this is the plight of coders and most of it was an attempt to shake up the stale 'stun to win' gameplay that isn't really engaging after a certain point.

Also, this is sort of off topic, but my master plan for tasers were to remove the tasers completely and replace them with less instawin disablers. The constant nerfs to them were an attempt to SLOWLY ween security mindset off of insta ranged stuns and taser spam. This was a much more effective approach than just going BYE TASERS! that other codebases have done, but alas. Anyone is free to remove tasers and re-buff armor though, because sec might need an armor buff again should they have their tasers taken away (I really don't know why Kor did that)

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bandit
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby bandit » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:11 am #98097

The most telling aspect of this appeal is that he has made no effort to apologize for or even acknowledge the suicide stuff. That, to me, says that he is not truly contrite or sincere.

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Falamazeer
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Falamazeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:24 am #98098

You can't lay the shit you stirred up at the feet of the people who approved it, even if the code was a good idea, Nobody told you to throw on your sunglasses and tell people to "deal with it"
In short, It's not even the PRs, Code is complicated, bugs happen, game balance is hard, sometimes what feels like a good idea can turn to shit in practice.

It's you toting it around and being cunty about the whole ordeal, Your attitude is shit, you're abrasive, and you as the vocal coder was being cunty and making controversial PR's seeming to thrive on the shit flinging that ensues.

Your defense makes perfect sense, and if this was how you conducted yourself on other PRs (Bar sign, Jumpsuits, whatever) I and others wouldn't say you are toxic.

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:48 am #98102

Falamazeer wrote:Nobody told you to throw on your sunglasses and tell people to "deal with it"

Actually yes, these are the exact words I was instructed to say if people complained about my PRs being merged

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Falamazeer
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Falamazeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:57 am #98104

paprika wrote:
Falamazeer wrote:Nobody told you to throw on your sunglasses and tell people to "deal with it"

Actually yes, these are the exact words I was instructed to say if people complained about my PRs being merged

By whom pray tell.

Even so, I'll rephrase, "Nobody told you to behave like a jerk, and intentionally antagonize people"

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RG4
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby RG4 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:16 am #98106

paprika wrote:I never furthered any divide between coders and players.

Image

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Wyzack
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Wyzack » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:20 am #98108

Seriously, you can cry that the maintainers made you do it but at the end of the day no other coders have the same massive arguments and shit flinging to the same degree

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:50 am #98115

How many times do the people in charge of the codebase have to tell you that player feedback is just a tool for contributors? Yelling at me doesn't make it any less true, nor does bringing up my attitude like it contributed to a thing that already existed. Yes, I had a bad attitude. No, it didn't affect the relationship between players and coders because it's always been like this and if anything there are more people contributing to github and sharing their opinions as a result of me drawing attention to the fact that you need to go to those places to be heard.

Seriously, I'm perfectly capable of seeing what a dick I was about stupid, petty shit like SECURITY JUMPSUIT SPRITES or BAR SIGNS but don't make it into something it wasn't with your player/coder politics. Almost all contributors contribute on their own volition, I'm not sacking anything off on the maintainers; I'm telling you that while the contributors operate like a team (or try to) they're not a studio of people and employees, literally anyone can download the code and change some values like I did. You didn't like me or my changes, ok, but this isn't "/tg/station studios". And I'm not quick to name names on who told me to straight up ignore feedback if I didn't find it useful to me, the list of people 'in charge' of the codebase has been pretty damn short

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Arete
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Arete » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:25 am #98121

Have a walk down memory lane:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1785
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1897
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2023

This is a small selection of the threads I remember from back when paprika was active. There's probably a lot more that only admins can see because forum mods have made his post history look like a classified CIA document with all their deletions.

Speaking of which: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1792

Cheridan got removed as forum admin over trying to delete this thread. Not trash it - he literally tried to remove it in a way that MSO couldn't recover, and we can only see it now because MSO happened to have it open in another tab.

Extremely polarizing figure that took coderbus's policy of being separate from the playerbase and stretched it as far as they'd allow him to. Seems extremely disingenuous to deny it.

Bombadil
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Bombadil » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:31 am #98124

I'm opposed to Paprika returning. IF you guys have a lapse of judgement and let Pap return they should have no ability to talk in OOC or deadchat.



Also

"OOC: Paprika: except i have the highest post count on the forums, you're autistic, and should feel bad"

This was in relation to me talking about Steelpoint and how he actually took feedback from the community and often talked things over.

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Falamazeer
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Falamazeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:50 am #98134

So your argument is... Feedback is just a tool for contributors to be heeded or not by choice, therefore it doesn't affect coderbus-player relations to shit on the skrubs and deliberately antagonize them.'
I mean, yeah, coders shouldn't be locked to feedback because unpopular decisions sometimes have to be made, and that's how it's always been for that reason, but can you really see no connection between your admitted dickheadedry and the schism "Us" vs "Them" issues?

I mean, ignoring negative feedback in an attempt to better the game is one thing, but you were deliberately shitting on people, and publicly enjoying it, You made yourself a problem that needed to be removed to fix that schism, and you still don't seem to comprehend the extent of your shitlerness.

Other coders push through negative feedback without throwing tantrums and getting permabanned.

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Wyzack
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Wyzack » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:01 am #98136

Does any of this actually matter? I feel like they will be unbanned regardless of the evidence put forth

PostThis post was deleted by NikNakFlak on Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:50 am.
Reason: Post in proper font

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paprika
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 am #98140

Bombadil wrote:"OOC: Paprika: except i have the highest post count on the forums, you're autistic, and should feel bad"

How many times are you going to take this quote wildly out of context? It was funny at first dude, you can stop now

Arete wrote:Extremely polarizing figure that took coderbus's policy of being separate from the playerbase and stretched it as far as they'd allow him to. Seems extremely disingenuous to deny it.

Outright admitting it was Coderbus' policy, cool. I'm not the first person to do that shit, I won't be the last, but this isn't even what this thread is about

I'd really like it if people brought real shit to the table here about the game ban I'm appealing and not bringing up anecdotal evidence of me being literally hitler that ruined their lives etc

iamgoofball wrote:probably best if they make an alt ckey too to prevent people shitting up OOC with "WHY IS PAP UNBANNED"

I probably will, something that has been discussed

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Falamazeer
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Falamazeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:23 am #98153

If you give a mouse a cookie...
He's going to ask a glass of milk...

If you give a mouse a glass of milk...
He'll probably ask you for a straw...


This is Children's literature here guys. Not rocket science.

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Skorvold
 
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Skorvold » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:33 am #98156

tfw you're all literally just as bad as you perceive pap to be
Never give up! Trust your instincts!
Spoiler:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/skorvold
Talk to me on steam anytime.

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Steelpoint
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Re: Paprika ban appeal

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:48 am #98160

All I'll say is that unbanning someone who was blacklisted from the servers, irrespective of who they are, completely undermines the whole concept of a, quote unquote, permanent ban and blacklisting. Take it into account that the results of this ban appeal will leave a strong precedent on any future ban appeals.

Final point, this is not Paprika's first ban appeal, he's had many chances to amend his behaviour and I recall him exhibiting this exact friendly behaviour he's showing in this thread when he was on the verge of being banned last time. You can't teach a fish to climb a tree.

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