/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:23 am**

Bottom post of the previous page:

If you give a mouse a cookie...
He's going to ask a glass of milk...

If you give a mouse a glass of milk...
He'll probably ask you for a straw...

This is Children's literature here guys. Not rocket science.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:33 am**

tfw you're all literally just as bad as you perceive pap to be

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:48 am**

All I'll say is that unbanning someone who was blacklisted from the servers, irrespective of who they are, completely undermines the whole concept of a, quote unquote, permanent ban and blacklisting. Take it into account that the results of this ban appeal will leave a strong precedent on any future ban appeals.

Final point, this is not Paprika's first ban appeal, he's had many chances to amend his behaviour and I recall him exhibiting this exact friendly behaviour he's showing in this thread when he was on the verge of being banned last time. You can't teach a fish to climb a tree.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:03 am**

If I'm not wrong pap's blacklist got removed.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:04 am**

Alrighty, Well let's tackle the policy issues that I just now thought of and probably need addressed.

In the terbs appeal it was determined that it was MSO's job to cover blacklist, as he's host.

MrStoneOne wrote:
Now look. I was on the free terbs train. I was the person who decided to ignore the blacklist and let him on the forums, I was all for and happy with the idea of unbanning him for april furst. But recent events can't be ignored.

As multiple people in the thread have noted, terb's habit of trying to encourage somebody to commit suicide happened as recently as a week ago.

Considering certain events from the past few months on that topic, I'm gonna put my foot down, sans a unanimous objection from headmin bus, This appeal is closed, and terbs will not be getting unblacklisted.

Where is that "unanimous" now?

E:sorry if I just caused confusion, was trying to move from quick post to full editor and I slipped and pressed submit. fixed

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:11 am**

Going by that precedent then a unban of a blacklisting would require all three head admins to agree to it.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:13 am**

Which reading page one, was not the case.
Kor was against it.

Kor wrote:

(In case it wasn't clear I was not around for voting to approve this)

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:16 am**

paprika wrote:Outright admitting it was Coderbus' policy, cool. I'm not the first person to do that shit, I won't be the last, but this isn't even what this thread is about

I'd really like it if people brought real shit to the table here about the game ban I'm appealing and not bringing up anecdotal evidence of me being literally hitler that ruined their lives etc

It is not coderbus policy to be a dick.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:25 am**

Falamazeer wrote:Which reading page one, was not the case.
Kor was against it.

Kor wrote:

(In case it wasn't clear I was not around for voting to approve this)

Sometinyprick was still a headmin at the time of the blacklist removal.

This is a ban appeal, not a policy discussion thread. There is a subforum for this if you feel it needs redress.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:28 am**

iamgoofball wrote:-snip-

I can see him wearing a special hat combo, so everyone in-game knows its him.

Also, i never witnessed any shitlerly from pap.

Bring him back, if he's shit for a fourth time, he can eat a blacklist.

Simple as that.

ALSO:

I was supposed to post this at the beginning of the appeal, but just got around to it

ALSO 2.0:

Forgot i can't post funny gifs

-dis gun be gud.gif-

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:46 am**

John_Oxford wrote: Bring him back, if he's shit for a fourth time, he can eat a blacklist.

Bring him back, if he's shit for a second time, he can eat a blacklist.

Bring him back, if he's shit for a fifth time, he can eat a blacklist.

Bring him back, if he's shit for a tenth time, he can eat a blacklist.

How many time's do we have to sing this song and dance before we draw a line in the sand, a permanent ban loses its value the minute someone is unbanned from that position.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:53 am**

I believe the record is around 26 or something like that.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:27 am**

I think the blacklist was misused on paprika. Paprika was uniquely shit in that he contributed a great deal of time and effort into trying to make the server better and cared in his warped fucked up way. The blacklisting seemed a publicity stunt to me if I'm honest.

So long as I am around I'll do everything possible to prevent him coming back to the codebase or forums.

Also Paps reaction in the suicide thing was bad but has been blown way out of proportion.

That said, Paprika you undeniably fucked up coder player relations. It was never as bad and probably will never be as bad again as when you were around. Things got a lot better there when you kicked out.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:45 am**

Glancing over it, it looks like the same old shit honestly. Kor's armor nerf is a huge example of it. Lots of arguing, lolmergedanyway, just like whenever I coded something or literally anyone ever coded something controversial having to do with balance. You can tell despite everyone arguing, or not wanting it, Cheridan still thought it was a good idea and it got merged.

I also really don't think it's fair to put the burden of 'player-coder relations' on individual contributors anyway, since the project is built around tons of people contributing, and most of the contributors are players themselves. Judge them based on their own merits or it can be stupid and stressful to be 'a coder' rather than 'someone who codes', yaknow

I don't disagree that player-coder relations aren't a thing that exists, or that I made them worse, but the fact that I did just means that there's ignorant people saying 'coder INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower mean grudge changes' which simply isn't true, that's all

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:57 am**

paprika wrote:Glancing over it, it looks like the same old shit honestly. Kor's armor nerf is a huge example of it. Lots of arguing, lolmergedanyway, just like whenever I coded something or literally anyone ever coded something controversial having to do with balance. You can tell despite everyone arguing, or not wanting it, Cheridan still thought it was a good idea and it got merged.

Its actually a terrible example, threads with you involved were nothing but two brick walls arguing with eachother, nothing ever came of them aside from a lock. What's happening in that thread is called a discussion, where people present ideas and respond while treating each other with some level of respect.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:16 am**

paprika wrote: I also really don't think it's fair to put the burden of 'player-coder relations' on individual contributors anyway, since the project is built around tons of people contributing, and most of the contributors are players themselves. Judge them based on their own merits or it can be stupid and stressful to be 'a coder' rather than 'someone who codes', yaknow

It's fair to say you ruined your relations with everybody as you were a dick towards players and the people in the coderbus alike. The only people who you may have treated with civility were the people who could keep you out.

Again, I am not opposed to you playing in the servers, I don't care about probations and other details, but as long as it's just an unban from the game servers, I am okay with it.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:22 am**

Honestly, I'm beginning to think letting paprika back in would be against his own interests. It's time to let go, paprika.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:36 am**

I just wanna play /tg/13 again

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:01 am**

But how far do you wish to be involved in the community? I can accept playing, but you really had a far reaching inpact to the community as a whole. There was quite clearly a separation between the coders and playerbase that was, whether you want to admit it or not, not helped by your actions. Things have started to get since.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:47 am**

Well I won't be working against that if it's really a thing that's happening, I don't really care too much about coding beyond my opinions on balance which will simply remain opinions from now on.

I think in a lot of ways spending a lot of time coding kind of disconnected me from playing the game in the first place, I'd be playing and I'd find bugs that would bug me until I went to fix them or get feature ideas I needed to go add or the game wouldn't feel 'whole' to me. Good riddance to that to be honest

Just being another player and playing on a server that's mostly stable and consistently populated again is all I really want in the end and why I made this appeal, nothing else will be grabbed at like forum unbanning, irc unbanning, or codebase unbanning, I just don't care anymore. It's like with a lot of people, I get the itch from time to time and I'd like to be able to play on a server I'm familiar with, and it'll probably be infrequent anyway.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:47 pm**

Scones wrote: Sometinyprick was still a headmin at the time of the blacklist removal.

This completely addresses my concern, Didn't hear about it, but why would I?

Scones wrote:This is a ban appeal, not a policy discussion thread. There is a subforum for this if you feel it needs redress.

So now it's off topic to discuss policy that pertains specifically to the content of the thread. Okie dokie.

Stickymayhem wrote:Stuff
So long as I am around I'll do everything possible to prevent him coming back to the codebase or forums.

Other stuff

Ehhhh, Ok then, I'm out, If sticky can stick to this there really isn't a problem, My primary issue is slippery slope, and next thing you know he's coding again silently with no warning.
If that concern is met, which it seems to have been, I have no further business here. Past shit is past, so long as it's remembered to avoid history repeating itself.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:45 pm**

How did you manage to make someone elses ban appeal about you?

Comon give the guy some space to actually appeal. Actual feedback on the appeal should be really kept to what we'd expect from a standard ban appeal.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:55 pm**

Anecdotal evidence about the banned person in question, is now making things about me. Okie dokie.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:20 pm**

Please note that this appeal has nothing to do with coding at any level
You can now stop bringing this up

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:14 pm**

Last time I played with Pap he was pretty chill IC, I don't recall having any bad interactions with him. Was rather decent from what I recall.

Wasn't around for the code/forum shit but I don't see why letting him play with probation is too bad since when he does play he's better than 80% of the people on the server anyway.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:20 pm**

Falamazeer wrote:If sticky can stick to this

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:40 pm**

Stickymayhem wrote:
So long as I am around I'll do everything possible to prevent him coming back to the codebase or forums.

good thing this is only an ingame ban lift

Stickymayhem wrote:That said, Paprika you undeniably fucked up coder player relations. It was never as bad and probably will never be as bad again as when you were around. Things got a lot better there when you kicked out.

good thing this is only an ingame ban lift

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:13 pm**

i'm nobody but i'm okay with it, i don't even know paprika's IC name and never did, it was always OOC and the forums that were a problem not IC

just keep it cool and play the game, why not.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:49 pm**

This is a video game and you all need to put that back in perspective.
I don't know if I can describe the amount of pseudo political "fuckery" (only word that came to mind) that had gone on in this thread alone.
There is next to no harm in letting them back in.
If they fuck up, throw them out again. Life is too short to spend it bickering over this inane horseshit.
The revolving door system we seem to have on our server in regards to ban allows us to keep giving people chances until they get it right. If they don't get it right, they stay gone, for the most part.
Jesus H. Christ, this much of a headache over someone wanting to play a video game.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:41 pm**

I hope you are all aware that two out of three headmins already agreed to unban him. Everything you say here, has no impact.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:46 pm**

NikNakFlak wrote:I hope you are all aware that two out of three headmins already agreed to unban him. Everything you say here, has no impact.

They voted to unblacklist him, upon further discussion they are not actually decided on unbanning. It seems like an odd distinction to me that they'd bother unblacklisting him if they didn't intend on unbanning him, but in any case it's still up in the air.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:09 pm**

My bad then

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:25 pm**

I don't want paprika back, if only because he's already had his "Dude we'll just kick him out again" chance, and he got kicked back out. It hasn't even been that long since he got triple-banned and blacklisted, either. Couple of months at the most?

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:00 pm**

It was an eternity

Kor wrote:
NikNakFlak wrote:I hope you are all aware that two out of three headmins already agreed to unban him. Everything you say here, has no impact.
They voted to unblacklist him, upon further discussion they are not actually decided on unbanning. It seems like an odd distinction to me that they'd bother unblacklisting him if they didn't intend on unbanning him, but in any case it's still up in the air.

They removed the blacklist so I could have an attempt at getting unbanned from the server like I asked for. It doesn't imply I'll get unbanned or anything. Blacklisting is a host restriction on even appealing

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:54 pm**

I believe in second chances after someone royally screwed up, I say let him back in the game regardless of transgressions of the past but limit him to only playing the game/forum. I haven't personally seen him act shit in game while he was still with us but that's mainly because I didn't know his IC name and even when I did see him (at least OOC wise) his attitude seemed -normal-. I don't know how bad he fucked what but that's just from what I observed.
But then again he'll have to live with the feeling of the many eyes weighing down on him along with the faint sound in the distance- it draws close yet he still hears it. The sound- of an axe against the whetstone and when it finally stops to his dismay at the bell that tolls, it tolls for thee along with the untold number of axes waiting - watching - in the dark.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:36 pm**

Second chances are nice and well, but third, fourth, fifth ones?

Posted: **Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:58 pm**

Pap wasn't shit like 2beard IC and wasn't he rebanned for coder shit?

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:43 am**

sorry if this isn't part of the conversation but why is it so difficult that they can't let pap set up a different ckey and play on the server, no one has to know other than the admins and if he fucks up again who fucking cares? All he wants to do is play this game, whats wrong with that? You people keep twisting and contorting everything to make it sound like he is a monster. Regardless of how pap acted in the past 90% of the people here are gonna keep jumping down the throat of anyone who mentions his name.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:48 am**

Whats going on with this thread? Its turning into a peanut gallery, with some of them bringing "Facts", wihout full proof of the matter. How can anyone truly talk down to people so bad, when they go to or below any level they perceive the other to be?

As I hope this gets wiped along with the rest of the garbage, I'd like to say something. I honestly never had a major issue with Paprika, he can be an asshole, but honestly, there have been sooo much worse. I'd state some names, but I am not going to start another fire here. I only believe there are just a few things pap should've stayed out of, coding was one of them, even though he was pretty good at it. The reason being that everyone becomes so damn toxic over every.little.change.."OMG THE JUMPSUITS ARE MULTI-COLOR" "PAP:Lol" "PAP! You are a shitler! You did this just to piss us off! WORST CODER!"

I believe that he hasn't really done anything bad in IC, he can make comments in deathchat, but unless he does anything truly shit on IC, deathchat is just deathchat. Molly and Wyatt were never a problem from what I can see, both were security and both actually did their job most of the time, aside from most sec that just beat you to death. As for unbanning, I think he needs to be given a shot in just the game and kept away from any of the workings and OOC.

The reasons being that, one, he clearly had some major ties with things and went down to a personal level, which I don't think we need to change things on just how one person feels. Two, the community as you can see is not mature enough to have him around, they react to him like the smelly fat kid, and honestly become worse than him when they even think of him. You can call him what you want, but if you think you are acting any better, you are very mistaken.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:26 am**

Redblaze3000 wrote:Pap wasn't shit like 2beard IC and wasn't he rebanned for coder shit?

Rebanned for ban evasion on the github.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:36 am**

I think this thread has more or less run it's course. Paprika and I agree the thread would be better off locked until a decision is reached at this point.

I'll leave the final decision to Sticky.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:53 am**

Decision made.

Paprika is unbanned on megasuperduper probation. He'll be playing on a different key. Don't deliberately stir shit with him.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:08 pm**

The decision of the headmins is final. Resolved. PM me with any questions.

/tg/Station 13

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