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Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:14 pm
by vorenigga69
Byond account and character name: Epif/random
Banning admin: Nalar
Ban reason and length: 1440 minutes - Needs some time off to chill his jets a bit. Got summoned as a golem, began telling everyone where his old body was and who killed them. When told it's not okay and warned, retorted with insults and was generally a bit of a dick.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2014-05-28 08:55:18, timezone is CST
Your side of the story: I got killed by the HOP then respawned as an adamantium golem and told my creator how I died. Then he told me to go do what I wanted, so I went to security and told the detective too. The detective said it's bannable to do that, then I told him I don't think it is and he said he'll ask an admin. Then he did.
I got PMed by Nalar and we had this exchange:
http://i.imgur.com/GZfUO7n.png
Neither of us said anything afterwards. After this I went to chemistry to eat some drugs but I discovered golems can't do that since they have natural facemasks and you can't pop pills through masks, so the chemist shot me up with some LSD and I had a good time for about five minutes. Then I got hit with this ban.
Why you think you should be unbanned: Nobody would ever say that unknowingly breaking some unstated and illogical rule, and then agreeing to not break it again, is worthy of a ban, and only unrepentent ass kissers or power-drunk idiots would say that calling an administrator a mean name is worthy of a ban.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:24 pm
by Nalar
The ban was for two reasons.
One, you were pretty clearly metagaming. Metagaming in this instance is defined as using information your character doesn't have, like... where your old body died and who the murderer was. We have rules against that sorta thing. Here's the exerpt from the rules I'm basing this off of:
5. Don’t metagame. Do not ever use information, acquired out of character or through patterns or events your character would not be able to know, in game.
The second reason was for being a bit of a jerk, rather pointlessly. If you want to insult folks, players or otherwise, expect me to not look kindly upon it. Jokingly and playfully insulting is an exception though. I should state that if it's done ICly, I don't really care, being an IC jerk and OOC jerk are different things. We're all here to have a good time and we don't need people being assholes towards others OOCly.
Neither of those two things I was willing to ban for on their own, especially the second one since it's subjective and petty to ban for insults on their own, but after looking at your notes and a bit of re-thought, you have a developing habit of being a jerk, and you need to chill out a bit.
If another administrator feels this was heavy handed or unfair, they may be all means overturn this ban at their discretion, but personally I'm not going to revolk this.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:31 pm
by vorenigga69
The ban was for one reason, which is I called you a moron and hurt your ego. The 'mistake' I made - and I'm sure plenty of players and administrators would disagree that it was a mistake - was in no universe even slightly worthy of punishment.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:33 pm
by Jordie0608
You are pretty much completely in the wrong here. You broke the rules by referencing information that your new golem-self would not be able to know: where your old self died and who killed you. This is quite a clear rule and there is little leeway around it, you don't talk about anything that happened in past lives/ghostlife.
Breaking that rule is in itself reason for a ban. "banned for admin disrespect" is not something that happens, however being an ass like you were can certainly add time to a ban that you're getting anyway.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:35 pm
by vorenigga69
Jordie0608 wrote:You are pretty much completely in the wrong here. You broke the rules by referencing information that your new golem-self would not be able to know: where your old self died and who killed you. This is quite a clear rule and there is little leeway around it, you don't talk about anything that happened in past lives/ghostlife.
Breaking that rule is in itself reason for a ban. "banned for admin disrespect" is not something that happens, however being an ass like you were can certainly add time to a ban that you're getting anyway.
It's not a 'quite clear' rule. It is unstated anywhere that you cannot die, be revived and use information from when you were previously alive. Any player would make this mistake and would go unbanned as long as they didn't call the child on the other computer a bad name that made him feel sad.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:43 pm
by Jordie0608
vorenigga69 wrote:It's not a 'quite clear' rule. It is unstated anywhere that you cannot die, be revived and use information from when you were previously alive.
From:
The Rules
Don’t metagame.Do not ever use information, acquired out of character or through patterns or events your character would not be able to know, in game
Do not ever use information, acquired out of character or through patterns or events your character would not be able to
know
patterns or events your character would not be able to know
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:45 pm
by vorenigga69
Jordie0608 wrote:vorenigga69 wrote:It's not a 'quite clear' rule. It is unstated anywhere that you cannot die, be revived and use information from when you were previously alive.
From:
The Rules
Don’t metagame.Do not ever use information, acquired out of character or through patterns or events your character would not be able to know, in game
Do not ever use information, acquired out of character or through patterns or events your character would not be able to
know
patterns or events your character would not be able to know
Yup, I know what metagame means. I, and any other sane person, did/do not think this constitutes it. Your ghost, your ethereal manifestation, goes onto a golem rune and is manifested into a golem shell. Anyone arguing for logic, rather than for their own argument, would say this means they retain their memories. Anyone arguing for logic, rather than for their weird cliquey 'we look out for each other's fuckups' admin circlejerk, would say, even if they disagree and think this does indeed constitute metagaming, that it is completely reasonable for someone to think otherwise, and would under no circumstances ban them for such a simple and easily-made mistake. A shithead might ban you for calling them stupid though, as shitheads are wont to do.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:59 pm
by Nalar
Your post is still there. The post I deleted was someone saying it's unreasonable for your character to retain information as a ghost. Please stop before you make yourself look foolish.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:02 pm
by vorenigga69
Nalar wrote:Your post is still there. The post I deleted was someone saying it's unreasonable for your character to retain information as a ghost. Please stop before you make yourself look foolish.
Oh. This shitty bbcode layout implemented the 'this post was deleted' notification into my post so you can see how I might have thought that.
Anyway, onto my points?
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:03 pm
by Jordie0608
OOC: Jordie0608: So gang, who here is sane and wants to help with a FNR issue?
OOC: Kelenius: What kind of help?
OOC: Jordie0608:
http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 9535#p9539
OOC: Corruptroulette: I can help
OOC: Jordie0608: Tell me if you think this is metagaming or not, honest answers
OOC: Corruptroulette: but it'll cost you
OOC: Baka_1984: Why not?
OOC: Nalar: roulette pls, i'll pay you later sweetheart
OOC: Nalar: me, you, fresh pineapples
OOC: Baka_1984: with yoyos?
OOC: Brotinheyst: pineapples on pizza?
OOC: Brotinheyst: :^)
OOC: Kelenius: Was it the guy who I adminhelped?
OOC: AdenAbrafo: Just explained it in laymens terms, Jordie
OOC: AdenAbrafo: Oh wait is FNR no peanut gallery
OOC: AdenAbrafo: Fuck my bad
OOC: Jordie0608: honk
OOC: Nalar: Just state opinions in OOC, peanut gallery is a no
OOC: AdenAbrafo: Sorry about that
OOC: Kelenius: It's metagaming in purest form
OOC: Brotinheyst: what is FNR
OOC: AdenAbrafo: But uh basically what I posted
OOC: Brotinheyst: i never heard of that abbreviation
OOC: AdenAbrafo: For no reason
OOC: Brotinheyst: i see
OOC: AdenAbrafo: Memory is stored in the brain, it's unreasonable to assume a ghost would retain experiences from his past life.
OOC: VoraciousPuma: He's not in his body, so he shouldnt remember anything
OOC: VoraciousPuma: If it was cloning that's different
OOC: Kelenius: Metacommunicating is probably the only thing that could be worse.
OOC: AdenAbrafo: The human brain detains memory so its dumb to assume he'd remember anything as a golem or clone
OOC: AdenAbrafo: Retains not detains
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:04 pm
by vorenigga69
What does that have to do with anything? Why post that? I don't want opinions from your ring of dicksuckers, I want you to explicitly rebut the points I submitted. Of course they'll agree with you.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:05 pm
by Nalar
Either way, this is denied. Another admin may feel free to overrule me if they wish.
The rule has been explained several times now, if you still refuse to understand there's nothing I can do to help you.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:08 pm
by vorenigga69
I'm glad you granted them your important permission.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:05 pm
by Antonkr
You not understanding the rules (which the rest of the playerbase has no problems with) and misinterpreting them doesnt make you right. Nalar was likely nice and decided to not ban you right away (although even by the metagame rule he could have done so easily), but when you decided to act like a dick about it, and you still are he issued the ban.
You werent banned for calling him a moron, but rather for metagaming. Instead of being at least a single bit apologetic you acted like a dick and got the ban. Regardless, not a single sane admin will lift this so might as well lock it.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:45 pm
by Pandarsenic
tl;dr -- Golem spawns are from 'fresh' souls. You become a golem, you lose all association with your last life. He gave you a chance to actually express recognition of your wrongdoing, but... you didn't.
Re: Nalar - Epif - I called him a moron
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:35 pm
by Hornygranny
I think we're done here.