[HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

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ComradeQueTheReborn
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:00 pm

[HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by ComradeQueTheReborn » #179627

Byond account and character name: Comrade Que - Tee Fury
Banning admin: HBL

You, or another user of this computer, (comradeque) is banned from playing Research Director. The ban reason is:
As Head of Security, had a subordinate murdered immediately for quitting; aggrivated by a grudge between the two players. Even so, this isn't a command style we need.
This ban was applied by hotelbravolima on 2016-05-21 18:02:57.

Your side of the story: Round starts. About 5 seconds into the round, I announce my presence (As HoS) over the Sec channel and ask everyone to report. My Warden (Who I later found out was being played by Tornadium) Immediately says, "Oh the HoS is Tee Fury, he's a cuck, I quit." Now obviously this is Meta. If you're an Admin you've probably heard Tornadium complaining about me, the guy holds a major grudge. (Also before anyone accuses ME of Meta, Tornadium only ever plays as Random Name and I had no idea the Warden was him until later when i was discussing the issue with Thunder and he informed me that it was Tornadium and that obviously he was motivated by his ongoing dislike for me.) Now, angered by this obvious abuse of the server rules AND by the clear cut case of mutiny, I offer his job (That being Warden) To whichever Officer kills him. An Officer took me up on it and gunned the Warden down to claim his promotion. The Warden's body was then deposited in Medbay.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I can see eating a ban for this. To be honest, I feel my actions were appropriate given the blatant disregard for server rules (Especially Meta which is something we are very strict on) But I can also see how someone might disagree. I DO however think a permanent Head ban was a bit harsh given that I was the initial victim of Meta in the first place (And as far as I know there were no consequences for Tornadium)

Cheers.
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Okand37
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Okand37 » #179675

While your point of the initial "Warden dislikes me because I'm a specific user" is a bit of toeing the line, people are allowed to keep consistent relationships as long as it doesn't effect their disposition with others. It was rather unnecessary to have him killed, especially when it could have been very possible for a security officer to detain him and turn in his gear.

However, while I may agree with a short ban for this, I am not entirely certain on the permanent ban lasting-but I'd have to see whether you have further instances of this or not.
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Wyzack
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Wyzack » #179678

Also quitting your job is not mutiny in any way
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
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ComradeQueTheReborn
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by ComradeQueTheReborn » #179682

Communist space station, loyalty implanted Warden guardian of the Brig and right hand man to the HoS. Calls his boss a "Fucking cuck" and refuses to do his job with absolutely zero IC reasons to do so.. Sounds like mutiny to me.
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Okand37
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Okand37 » #179686

While your IC reasoning may be understood, leaving isn't really mutiny as much as it is dereliction of duty. However, aside from IC rules we also have server rules that you can read here: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules
Are you being the neighbour Mr. Rogers would've wanted you to be?
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Hibbles
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Hibbles » #179728

The grimderp nature of our setting on TG isn't very consistently enforced; after all, shitcurity memes aside, if Security goes Hitler on somebody for literally zero reason, they are likely to be stopped by the admins or even banned. Like in this case. In a real corporate dystopia, murdering a guy for wanting to quit and bring rude about it might be appropriate. But on TG, we don't allow IC justifications like that to override the server rules like murdering a player.

Normally this wouldn't have been permanent, but Heads especially need some bare minimum basic standards. We don't whitelist or anything, but I do feel way more free to jobban from Heads if your style isn't something we need a powerful crewman to be doing. As mentioned in the end of the ban reason, this incident says bad things about that style in general. So then I looked up the notes.
Spoiler:
Notes of comradeque
[Add Note]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2012-07-28 00:00:00 | Sybil | hornygranny [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned - whining in ooc after adminhelp was resolved
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2012-12-12 00:00:00 | Sybil | alien219 [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Note - apparently pushed a cyborg out of an airlock? not confirmed, observe
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2012-12-20 00:00:00 | Sybil | threadstrong [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer - Spaced someone. I don't care if they're "griefers". You don't space someone as security.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2013-01-05 00:00:00 | Sybil | scaredofshadows [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer - Enormous shithead. No business playing security.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2013-01-05 00:00:00 | Sybil | scaredofshadows [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Warden, Detective, Security Officer - Enormous shithead. No business playing security.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2013-01-19 00:00:00 | Sybil | scaredofshadows [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer - Stick to non-command jobs. Learn how the server plays before taking these jobs.
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2013-04-11 00:00:00 | Sybil | hotelbravolima [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
As a Malf AI, refused to actually attempt station takeover, was incredibly beligerent in ahelp, massive shitlord, was replaced. If he continues this stuff with AI, recommend giving him a vacation for some time from silicons.
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2013-04-20 00:00:00 | Sybil | cdb [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer - Logged out as captain at round start.
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2013-07-28 00:00:00 | Sybil | giacomand [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from pAI, AI, Cyborg - Disobeying laws and disconnecting when being questioned.
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2013-07-28 00:00:00 | Sybil | giacomand [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned - Leaving while being questioned by an admin.
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2013-11-04 00:00:00 | Sybil | swagile [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer - Going braindead as the HoS near start of round without admin PMing. Appeal on the forums.
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2013-12-23 00:00:00 | Sybil | leibniz [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer - Going AFK at roundstart as the HoS.
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2013-12-29 00:00:00 | Sybil | scaredofshadows [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from pAI, AI, Cyborg - Rule 1 violation for immediately murderbonering with laws removed. "I am concerned that there are a WHOLE 4 humans left alive on the station"
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2014-01-11 00:00:00 | Sybil | pandarsenic [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned for 1440 minutes - Ran up to the brig and blasted two cells open with IEDs as nonantag assistant at roundstart.
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2014-03-17 00:00:00 | Sybil | bluespace [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from pAI, AI, Cyborg - Left the game as a roundstart AI.
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2014-04-20 00:00:00 | Sybil | nerolat [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer - Disconnected as a roundstart captain.
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2014-05-07 00:00:00 | Sybil | mrglasses91 [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned for 1440 minutes - Bombed arrivals with Gibtonite, when asked why his response: "Why not, it's fun, funnt and harmless." It drains that area of Oxygen and atmosphere, and bombing the station as a non antag is a no no.
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2014-05-11 00:00:00 | Sybil | brotemis [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Free antag token
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2014-05-22 00:00:00 | Sybil | nalar [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Uploaded a law one humaning himself (captain) and security over the AI bolting them down whilst he was being abducted. Immediately declared everyone human. Not great reasoning, but considering IC issue. I'd recommend watching for similar for barely justifiable reasoning.
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2014-05-25 00:00:00 | Sybil | nalar [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned for 1440 minutes - Grey tiding- assisted in jumping and killing an officer because he got stunned one time, as a non-antag.
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2016-01-23 15:50:36 | Sybil | bgobandit [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Warned -- Suicided immediately after being converted to gang.
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2016-02-14 16:20:28 | Sybil | ausops [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Advised on law 2 door.
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2016-03-10 22:44:03 | Sybil | irishwristwatch0 [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
If this dude so much as touches a bomb as antag do not hesitate to ban them.
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2016-04-18 16:29:00 | Sybil | lzimann [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Minor interaction with a human as drone, PM'd but was seemly afk and didn't respond. Considering this as a warning anyway.
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2016-04-19 11:57:13 | Sybil | saegrimr [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned for 1440 minutes - Turning around and attacking implanted crew after being deconverted and given sec huds, proceeds to rant in deadchat about how loyalty implants don't matter and some other garbage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016-04-27 13:55:50 | Sybil | shaps [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Killed some guy as captain because a revenant told them to, justified it with "my guy is crazy and had to listen to the voices in his head", then said admins gave him permission which wasn't true( HELP: Comrade Que/(Tee Fury): Am i supposed to ignore these voices or what fams? | PM: Ausops/(Anna Avery)->Comrade Que/(Tee Fury): it's not us but it is IC) Watch for bad justifications to kill people
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016-05-20 14:59:24 | Sybil | thunder12345 [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned for 15 minutes - IC in OOC
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2016-05-21 18:03:18 | Sybil | hotelbravolima [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer - As Head of Security, had a subordinate murdered immediately for quitting; aggrivated by a grudge between the two players. Even so, this isn't a command style we need.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016-05-21 18:03:18 | Sybil | hotelbravolima [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned for 1440 minutes - As Head of Security, had a subordinate murdered immediately for quitting; aggrivated by a grudge between the two players. Even so, this isn't a command style we need.
Of course, most of the notes don't directly relate to command things, notes don't say the whole story, and many of these are years old, but it goes to character if nothing else. And it really does. While accumulating a few notes may be normal, trouble finds you a lot. To roughly quote another admin I talked with about this in asay, "If people are quitting or jumping out of airlocks to avoid having you as hos, maybe you're the problem, mate."

How can we be assured that your behavior as a head of staff will change?
RIP
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bandit
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by bandit » #179732

To be fair, a lot of those bans are for logging out/disconnecting in command roles, and the other one is SoS saying "you have no business playing security," which anyone who played during the last couple years knows might be a bit loaded without the context.
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ComradeQueTheReborn
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by ComradeQueTheReborn » #179754

One of my Sec bans was VERY early days when I was new and I made a mistake. The others were for leaving as Command staff at round start which was mostly my connection (I used to play from Australia)

Then I have two from SoS which you might remember was a huge controversy and at the time the general consensus of the Community was that they were unjust.

I think it's a little unfair to say that "I'm the type of character unfitting for Command Staff" When i've been playing this game, solely on this server for almost 5 years.

Of course I have some bans in that time frame. But considering I play Heads/Sec 80% of the time, that many bans over that many years is pretty good going, IMO.

I feel I may be a tad unfairly targeted here. Also what even the fuck is this: "2016-03-10 22:44:03 | Sybil | irishwristwatch0 [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
If this dude so much as touches a bomb as antag do not hesitate to ban them."

ALSO the person that quit on me, is the ONLY time that's ever happened and it was Tornadium. The biggest meta griffing little pussy in this community.

I hardly think it's reflective of the overall perception of me on the server.
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Hibbles
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Hibbles » #179761

Yeah, I'm going to talk it over with the other admins and see what they think about it. If literally nobody else thinks you should stay binned, then it would be pointless to keep it permanent.
RIP
Tornadium
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Tornadium » #179766

Since I'm involved in this.

Playing rounds with you as security is literally unfuckingbearable. Damn right I fucking quit than having my time wasted by you letting CJAJ and whatever other shithead metabuddies break into the brig and then detaining security members for doing their job and defending the brig. On top of that holding the detained sec members and letting the assistants attack security while they are cuffed for the fun of it.

I turned in all of my equipment to you in front of your door, this included :

-Sec ID
-Taser
-Baton
-Warden Uniform

I was entirely unarmed and ready to go about my round playing a role that wasn't going to be completely fucking cancerous to my enjoyment of the round, You had already lasered me into near critical before the officer even bothered to come near me. You had clear intent to kill me you just missed enough shots that I didn't go down, this was before you offered the position to the officer that killed me. The officer was not to blame because you had already tried to kill me once.

Last I checked, wanting to IC switch jobs doesn't make me valid even if it was for OOC reasons.

I feel like I should point out that even the admins handling the situation agreed you're fucking cancer when it comes to head/security. All I was guilty of was wanting to have a fun round that had nothing to do with you.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Tornadium » #179768

Also Thunder told me you got a note and a warning for that bullshit as Captain a few weeks ago.

Why did you lie Thunder?
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by J_Madison » #179844

Since I'm the asshole who hates metagangs, I'm going to weigh in on this since I've done a lot of clarification regarding grudging.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5909

You're allowed to refuse to assist him based on previous experiences with him.

And the simple answer to any grudges based on IC snowflake characters is "Change your character".
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Tornadium » #179850

Thanks for bringing that up.

Good to know there is some solid ground here. I'd also like to point out some other officer called you out for being shit and resigned before I did, I just followed suit.

What I did was less of a grudge per say, more that I just didn't want to have to try to play security with your usual stunts going on.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Archie700 » #179853

Tornadium wrote:Also Thunder told me you got a note and a warning for that bullshit as Captain a few weeks ago.

Why did you lie Thunder?
I think Thunder's refering to Shaps's note:
2016-04-27 13:55:50 | Sybil | shaps [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Killed some guy as captain because a revenant told them to, justified it with "my guy is crazy and had to listen to the voices in his head", then said admins gave him permission which wasn't true( HELP: Comrade Que/(Tee Fury): Am i supposed to ignore these voices or what fams? | PM: Ausops/(Anna Avery)->Comrade Que/(Tee Fury): it's not us but it is IC) Watch for bad justifications to kill people
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by lollerderby » #179916

>have a subordinate killed for quitting
>"I feel my actions were appropriate"

This appeal is too soon.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Saegrimr » #179919

Being a terrible head seems like a recurring theme, and you still don't seem to understand why this specific incident is wrong.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
ComradeQueTheReborn
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by ComradeQueTheReborn » #180000

I've been playing Head positions for 5 years. I have 4 Head bans, only two of which are actually for conduct. How does that equal being a terrible head. You're more of a terrrible Admin than I am head. I've done my job TOO THE T as HoS/Captain countless times, countering the threats to the station and fulfilling my role well. I have hundreds of Rounds under my belt in those positions, but because I have two conduct bans on record I'm a "Terrible head" Yeah fuck off and get a clew Saegrimir.

As for "If you're being meta-grudged just change character"

It's the admins job to prevent Meta. Why should I have to change my Character because IM a victim of someone breaking the rules. That's poor policy.

As for Lollerderby: I killed the Subordinate for Meta more so than quitting. Kind of like how we lynch WGW readers. I also didn't kill him personally I ordered his replacement to kill him before depositing his corpse in Medbay, call it a fast track demotion.

I WAS ALSO QUITE CLEAR that I'm okay with being banned for this, but that a PERMANENT ban is a bit harsh. ESPECIALLY given the fact that the Admins didn't actually punish Tornadium for the Meta to begin with, so the IC punishment was the only punishment he received.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by J_Madison » #180002

Admins are not required to intervene if someone doesn't want to play with you. They mostly intervene when those players grudge turns into targeted FNR killings and grief.

If you play with a snowflake character, it is YOUR decision to get the benefits of metafriends and the downsides of players treating you differently.

Metagaming and metarelationships are completely different things. The only "meta" thing he did is not want to play with someone whom he has had a bad experience with in the past, partly due to your metarelationships.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You are not the victim; he is the victim of starting the round being forced to play with someone he doesn't want to play with.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Tornadium » #180006

ComradeQueTheReborn wrote:I've been playing Head positions for 5 years. I have 4 Head bans, only two of which are actually for conduct. How does that equal being a terrible head. You're more of a terrrible Admin than I am head. I've done my job TOO THE T as HoS/Captain countless times, countering the threats to the station and fulfilling my role well. I have hundreds of Rounds under my belt in those positions, but because I have two conduct bans on record I'm a "Terrible head" Yeah fuck off and get a clew Saegrimir.

As for "If you're being meta-grudged just change character"

It's the admins job to prevent Meta. Why should I have to change my Character because IM a victim of someone breaking the rules. That's poor policy.

As for Lollerderby: I killed the Subordinate for Meta more so than quitting. Kind of like how we lynch WGW readers. I also didn't kill him personally I ordered his replacement to kill him before depositing his corpse in Medbay, call it a fast track demotion.

I WAS ALSO QUITE CLEAR that I'm okay with being banned for this, but that a PERMANENT ban is a bit harsh. ESPECIALLY given the fact that the Admins didn't actually punish Tornadium for the Meta to begin with, so the IC punishment was the only punishment he received.
So you're totally okay with people having metaknowledge of certain individuals competency but when it comes to incompetency I'm meant to just give you a pass and let you ruin my round before I react? Riiight. What rules did I break here exactly? I knew you were a shithead and I didn't want to deal with you so I went to get a job change. I feel that breaks the rules a hell of a lot less than gang leaders or revs targeting the robust players, yet that's kosher.

Regardless, you killed me because I disliked you. You gonna kill someone for meta liking you because of something you did in a previous round? Better kill CJAJ every single round then kid. Also you lasered me into sub 20 hp before ordering the officer to finish me, the only reason you stopped is because you ran out of ammo in two weapons.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Saegrimr » #180017

ComradeQueTheReborn wrote:I killed the Subordinate for Meta more so than quitting. Kind of like how we lynch WGW readers.
I'm so glad you're capable of making up your own rules for whats okay.
ComradeQueTheReborn wrote:ESPECIALLY given the fact that the Admins didn't actually punish Tornadium for the Meta to begin with, so the IC punishment was the only punishment he received.
Nobody is going to force him to play a damn video game.

He turned in all his gear. Literally nothing he did would affect your round in the slightest, well aside from pissing you off enough to do dumb shit and get banned.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by ComradeQueTheReborn » #180026

Saegrimr wrote:
ComradeQueTheReborn wrote:I killed the Subordinate for Meta more so than quitting. Kind of like how we lynch WGW readers.
I'm so glad you're capable of making up your own rules for whats okay.
I didn't SAY it was okay. I've been clear that had the ban been temporary I wouldn't be here debating it, I would have admitted I was wrong, taken my punishment and shut the fuck up. BUT the ban is permanent, and that's why I'm here.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Tornadium » #180089

You just going to ignore me pointing out you are lying or?
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by onleavedontatme » #180608

I was going to make a post but J_mad basically said everything perfectly already.

Admins cant force people to like you.
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Re: [HBL] Comrade Que - Perma Head Ban for being meta'd

Post by Hibbles » #181391

I guess there's not really anything more to say about it. I'll reduce this to a month, which is still a while, but I'm not shy giving out headbans that long. It's definitely not been a consensus of 'this was undeserved, free que 2016'. Hopefully there won't be more absurd situations like this whole deal.
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