/tg/Station 13

Byond account and character name: Repukan - Donatello Versus - Honkerson of the filth

Banning admin: Okand37
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Servers (Both Basil and Sybil)

Ban reason and length: As a non-antagonist, left a supermatter shard out in the halls which ended up killing a total of four people - themselves not included - and went critical and blew up arrivals.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2016-07-16, 14:20:27.49

Your side of the story: I was clowning around, doing clown things. Round was pretty uneventful, and I decided to push forward the construction of an engine worthy of the Honkmother (whose grace saved me earlier in the round.) Thus, I buy a super matter shard and pull it to engineering so the engineers can start doing construction of the super-banana-matter engine. During my trek on finding where engineering was (Dreamstation so finding it was hell) a bunch of people notice me dragging around the shard. I made the shipping manifest into a paper plane, and intended to throw it at one of the crewmembers in a diagonal. However, it hit the shard instead, causing us all to pass out (me being the only casualty of this.) Later on, Okand37 built a hug wall around it, so that people did not run into it. Even though the plane hit it, the shard had not started delamination. However, later on, two players made a false wall behind the shard and tried to drag it unsuccessfully, dying to it and causing the shard to laminate. Cue shuttle call and panic, the CE tries to drag it into space, fucks up, and drags it to arrival where he/she promtply runs into it after leaving it in a pod hallway, causing the delamination to jump start and beginning the final countdown.

Why you think you should be unbanned: First, I'd like to start out by saying the way the ban is presented, would show a whole different story from what happened. Saying "caused the death of 4 people" is much, much more different that saying "which caused 4 people, on their own means, to unsuccessfully try to interact with the shard causing their own demise." Secondly, the admin wanted to stop people running into it and touching it, hence the wall. If such measures were taken, why was I not bwoinked there? I feel it is unfair that I am also being punished for others incompetence in removing a secured, NON DELAMINATING, piece and dying in the attempt. I must also clarify that i did not leave the shard in arrivals, but it remained in the halls after I died.

Frankly, I admit that my shenanigans were dangerous, but a clown must honk where no one else has honked before. I only ask to not be held accountable for what others did. I did not push those people in the shard, nor did I set it up for them to walk into it. They, with their actions and mis-actions, caused their own demise, and the CE dragging it to arrivals caused it to explode THERE. Furthermore, I did not trigger the delamination, but other crewmembers running into it, AFTER it was secured by an admin did.

Thank you, and please do consider reducing my ban time.

-D&B

You left a supermatter shard in the halls and people ended up dying to it by trying to remove it, then it ended up going critical killing another uninvolved person. You also sat there in deadchat cheering on people dying and saying how none of their deaths was your fault and that you just left it in the hall for fun.

Unless someone wants to cut you some slack, I'm going to go with denied on giving you shorter ban.

Okand37 wrote:You left a supermatter shard in the halls and people ended up dying to it by trying to remove it, then it ended up going critical killing another uninvolved person. You also sat there in deadchat cheering on people dying and saying how none of their deaths was your fault and that you just left it in the hall for fun.

Unless someone wants to cut you some slack, I'm going to go with denied on giving you shorter ban.

Cheering /=/ Laughing at people fucking up.

That was only in the end when the CE reactivated the delamination. Everyone that died to it involved themselves trying to remove it (seriously, they should have left it alone in the cage you had done at the moment.) Also, I'd like to request a log quote where it says that I left it there for fun. I remember saying that it was fun to watch, and the round had gotten boring. But not that I left it there for fun.

I've done this exact same situation before as an asimov borg to be honest. Was trying to take it somewhere through the halls and then I got pushed into it and everybody died.

I got a note for it and pretty much everyone thought it was hilarious, that's kinda the nature of supermatter shards.

You had a pretty similar situation earlier in the day as well involving a different supermatter shard. You (Or someone else) ordered it, and then demanded the engineers set it up, but what was curious is you had the engineers open up the crate in cargo when in reality, it would have been much safer for them to just take the crate. Of course, you instantly walked into that shard as well. You seem to have a history with shards just like you had a history with megafauna.

You're supposed to become an admin before you randomly kill the whole crew with a supermatter silly.

NikNakFlak wrote:You had a pretty similar situation earlier in the day as well involving a different supermatter shard. You (Or someone else) ordered it, and then demanded the engineers set it up, but what was curious is you had the engineers open up the crate in cargo when in reality, it would have been much safer for them to just take the crate. Of course, you instantly walked into that shard as well. You seem to have a history with shards just like you had a history with megafauna.

That was an absolutely different situation with equally hilarious results. That one time, I had ordered the shard, delivered it to engineering succesfully (Because meta is not a clusterfuck) and the CE opened it and pushed the crate into it which devolved me into me causing suicide into it later when no one was around. I remember it fondly because the drone freaked the fuck out after it saw a space faring A E S T H E T I C statue.

Zilenan91 wrote:I've done this exact same situation before as an asimov borg to be honest. Was trying to take it somewhere through the halls and then I got pushed into it and everybody died.
I got a note for it and pretty much everyone thought it was hilarious, that's kinda the nature of supermatter shards.

Except in this case he literally dragged a shard in-front of me and several other people, and threw a paper plane into it. Causing us to have to hike to medical and abandon the area we were working at.

This ban seems like overly nanny state stuff, sometimes shit happens and you lose track of your dangerous station ending weapon and if someone else is dumb enough to dust themself on it, so be it.

Pascal123 wrote:

Zilenan91 wrote:I've done this exact same situation before as an asimov borg to be honest. Was trying to take it somewhere through the halls and then I got pushed into it and everybody died.
I got a note for it and pretty much everyone thought it was hilarious, that's kinda the nature of supermatter shards.

Except in this case he literally dragged a shard in-front of me and several other people, and threw a paper plane into it. Causing us to have to hike to medical and abandon the area we were working at.

Which, as I mentioned in the OP, was an accident since I didn't think throwing it in a diagonal would register a hit with the shard rather than the empty space. This was carelessness in my part since when I use proto ka's for mining, I tend to do horizontal shots and throws by aiming in a diagonal as well. (As in they actually hitting the diagonal space, not the space right beside me.)

oranges wrote:This ban seems like overly nanny state stuff, sometimes shit happens and you lose track of your dangerous station ending weapon and if someone else is dumb enough to dust themself on it, so be it.

I agree with the fruit. If they have a history of abusing shards like niknak said, then a note would have sufficed. Otherwise we're setting a nasty precedent.

And how does it differ from opening a plasma canister in public?

What part of "This dude literally dragged a volatile shard capable of disintigrating, blowing up, and spreading plasma infront of several people who were working in an area, stepped back, then threw a paper plane into it. Spiraling the situation and causing the deaths and inevitable necessity of a shuttle call." Don't you understand. I am not a spiteful person. Even though i was a victim. But i sincerely do not believe this was an "Accident.".

Judging by his reactions and statements in deadchat as it was ongoing he was rather pleased with how his clowning business turned out.

Pascal123 wrote:What part of "This dude literally dragged a volatile shard capable of disintigrating, blowing up, and spreading plasma infront of several people who were working in an area, stepped back, then threw a paper plane into it. Spiraling the situation and causing the deaths and inevitable necessity of a shuttle call." Don't you understand. I am not a spiteful person. Even though i was a victim. But i sincerely do not believe this was an "Accident.".

Judging by his reactions and statements in deadchat as it was ongoing he was rather pleased with how his clowning business turned out.

I don't deny laughing at people fucking up, but that was caused on their own terms. An admin had literally caged the thing so that no one would touch it. I just feel that it is unfair than I'm being punished for people actively acting suicidal when the thing was not even delaminating. Also, there were no further fatal victims aside from myself after it was trapped in front of botany. The shuttle call was not caused by the paper plane, but by people triggering the delamination by trying unsuccessfully to space it even though it was safely contained by grilles and barriers.

Again, people dying was not my end goal nor my objective. I was trying to find where engineering was, and the paper airplane was an accident. If I had thrown the people into the shard, I would understand being pinned by it. But those people died out of their own volition and ineffectiveness in leaving something that was haphazardly secured alone.

D&B wrote:Again, people dying was not my end goal nor my objective. I was trying to find where engineering was, and the paper airplane was an accident. If I had thrown the people into the shard, I would understand being pinned by it. But those people died out of their own volition and ineffectiveness in leaving something that was haphazardly secured alone.

You're trying to shift the blame here. You ordered supermatter, you dragged it through the public space, you threw a paper plane into it. You caused death, you caused shuttle call.

Lumbermancer wrote:

D&B wrote:Again, people dying was not my end goal nor my objective. I was trying to find where engineering was, and the paper airplane was an accident. If I had thrown the people into the shard, I would understand being pinned by it. But those people died out of their own volition and ineffectiveness in leaving something that was haphazardly secured alone.

You're trying to shift the blame here. You ordered supermatter, you dragged it through the public space, you threw a paper plane into it. You caused death, you caused shuttle call.

Nobody died. When the paper plane hit the shard, nobody died except me. The grille was then constructed and barriers were put around it by an admin. It was safely isolated, delamination hadn't occurred, and there was no danger with it being there anymore. There was no immediate danger, and absolutely no reason to interact with it any further. Botany was still usable so long as nobody took down the barriers and actually interacted with said shard anymore.

Instead, what happened was a chaplain and an assistant, I believe, to weld a fake door behind it, try to drag it, walk in on it, pulverize themselves, cause the shard to delaminate, and cause a panic situation that costed more lives. Call it shifting blame if you want, but this is the way I see it: If people had died when I threw the paper airplane (Which, again, it hitting the shard was an accident since I threw it in a diagonal expecting it to go diagonal,) Then yeah, I would gladly take the shit for it. However, there was a good chunk of time where the shard was left alone, non delaminating, non dangerous, isolated, with no danger of people running into it after an admin intervened and locked it up. It was only after other players, out of their own volition, decided to break it free to move it around some more. Them not taking necessary precautions (Mesons, Suits against rads, et al) and dying for running into it (three of the deaths were like this) was not caused by me. It was clearly out of their own volition. Nobody told them to move it, it was not an immediate danger, again, it was not delaminating, nor throwing off plasma. It could have spent the rest of the round there without further incident until they decided to interact with it.

If the admin is going to intervene and close it up, I don't see why the player should then be punished for idiots running into the thing. Throwing the plane was stupid, yes, but even if it wasn't an accident I don't see a five day ban being appropriate at all. Anything after the admin wall wasn't his fault, and quite frankly I don't even see why the admin wall was required in the first place.

Actually why even wall it in the first place, why not just delete it

Why was the supermater outside the crate it arrives in in the first place?

Because like the previous one, he opened the crate.

Well then I'm not buying it at all. My sec senses tell me le clown making le engine for le honkmother is just a plausible deniability for greytide. That's even disregarding the fact that supermatter engine is a meme that doesn't ever work.

It doen't matter, the only person he killed was himself, then an admin walled it up and other people went out of their way to make it go critical.

How can he be held responsible for anything past the part where the admin intervened in the first place?

Zilenan91 wrote:Actually why even wall it in the first place, why not just delete it

This is a good question.

oranges wrote:How can he be held responsible for anything past the part where the admin intervened in the first place?

Because if he didn't do what he did, nothing that happened would happen?

Here's a bit of context: He left it right outside of botany on the main hall of dreamstation that spans from medical to the brig, which is again arguably one of the most trafficked hallways on dreamstation. Not only that, three people were currently frequenting botany at the time and it kept making them blackout from radiation.

I've already said my piece; you aren't having it shortened unless someone else does it.

EDIT: It was blocked off because while I was in the middle of something, I wasn't going to delete the supermatter shard and give him a free pass on what he had wrought. I set a grille around it so people wouldn't immediately run into it because again, one of the arguably most trafficked hallways and I don't sit here taking pleasure in having to ban people. I was hoping the problem could've been avoided but still, not giving a free pass on what they started.

Lumbermancer wrote:

oranges wrote:How can he be held responsible for anything past the part where the admin intervened in the first place?

Because if he didn't do what he did, nothing that happened would happen?

If the person who broke through the admin wall did nothing it wouldn't have happened either.

Also yeah if an admin puts a wall around something players are going to want to break it down to see why. I don't know why you thought that would've worked.

Okand37 wrote:Here's a bit of context: He left it right outside of botany on the main hall of dreamstation that spans from medical to the brig, which is again arguably one of the most trafficked hallways on dreamstation. Not only that, three people were currently frequenting botany at the time and it kept making them blackout from radiation.

I've already said my piece; you aren't having it shortened unless someone else does it.

EDIT: It was blocked off because while I was in the middle of something, I wasn't going to delete the supermatter shard and give him a free pass on what he had wrought. I set a grille around it so people wouldn't immediately run into it because again, one of the arguably most trafficked hallways and I don't sit here taking pleasure in having to ban people. I was hoping the problem could've been avoided but still, not giving a free pass on what they started.

So, I mean, just bwoink me and ban me there and then rather than waiting for round end and more deaths? It's not the first time I'm banned, and I've had situations where I would be banned even in the middle of a round before things escalated, and dangers or threats I might have caused/brought onto station dealt with. Punishing me right there and then seems like a most rational thing to do rather than wait the body count to go up so the ban gets longer. I mean, it is fair too.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, sardonic, nor entitled by asking you clean after players and their fuck ups either, but is it really easier for admins to spawn 12 things than to delete one?

Should have just not interfered with the shard at all so we could avoid the whole "he dindu nuffin wrong 'cuz admin could have deleted it" circus.

Anyway banning admin denied this so I'm locking it and moving it in 24 hours.

Hmm I think this situation needs looking into further. Its a bit of a shit show of events, though everyone throwing there opinions in doesn't help.
Lets leave it locked and see if we can get a head to comment.

This has been discussed in #supportbus already. Appeal denied, moving it away.