[bobdobbington] -Laughing Rabbit : Security Job Ban Appeal

[Laughing_Rabbit]

Byond account and character name: Laughing Rabbit: Han Bower

Banning admin: Bobdobbington

Ban type (What are you banned from?): All of Security Roles

Ban reason and length: After the botanist slipped the detective and the detective took the botanist's water pack over it, escalated that into a full bore trial proceeding the botanist had to sit through for basically no reason. When your RP is causing your victims to commit suicide, rethink your approach.
This ban was applied by bobdobbington on 2016-08-11 01:54:30. The ban is for 4320 minutes and expires on 2016-08-14 01:54:30 (server time).

Your side of the story: The detective detained the botanist for slipping the detective and others. The botanist was brought to me by the detective to judge the arrest. I suggested that he have his backpack removed as punishment but no brig time. The detective agreed and the punishment was done.
The botanist was released from the brig and I took come the brig's front desk duty.

The botanist spent at least ten minutes at the security desk trying to convince me to let him have his water backpack back for he wasn't guilty.
I told him to fill out a complain and I would present it to my superiors. The botanist refused and he expressed that he thought it was a waste of time and just wanted his water backpack back. So, while he continue to complain to me about how he was treated and said that he was a victim of racism.
I contacted the clown to act as judge for the clown was natural and unlikely to favor security or the botanist unjustly.

The clown arrived pretty quickly and so I tell the botanist that he can appeal his case in court and get his backpack back.
He expressed that he much rather just have backpack back. I told him that he can't without a trial to prove him innocent.
So, I let the clown and the botanist into court and tell the detective to hurry up. Five minute past and the clown threats a mistrial since the detective is running back and forth outside of the courtroom.

As soon as this is said the detective shows up with his wittiness the other botanist and the detective and we convince the judge to take the case.
During this time I have the detective give the backpack to the botanist. The botanist put on his backpack and runs out of the court room door.
Which I believe was already open from the detective and botanist coming in. I chase and tase him for stealing the backpack and put him back into the court room without hand cuffs.
The detective and wittiness give their statements which were pretty brief and basic.

As soon as it becomes the botanists turn to speak he kills himself.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
I suggested and organized this trial for the botanist because of a few reasons.
1. Experience has an officer has taught me that the botanist might try attacking the detective for his backpack at some point. Which would most likely escalate into someone's death or further waste of police power.
2. This was still somewhat early in the game and the security force was rather large. Detective often has downtime unless he's valid hunting and that's rather frowned upon despite being common place. I had placed myself at the front desk, during the trial there was the warden and other security guards defending the brig.
3. I didn't want to completely undermine the detective by going back on the sentence. Without any evidence that it was unjust, I used the trial as way to examine the detective's evidence instead of just taking his word for as I did before.

Bobdobbington mentioned that the botanist said I forced him to do the trial. Once the Detective and I took his backpack and released him. I never handcuffed him, he spent his time released from the brig. Complaining to me at the security desk. I created the trial as a way for him to get his stuff back. What I did do was force him to do a trial to get his backpack back. I presented it to him as this "Either you do the trial or I can't help you" So, he followed me to the court room for the trial.

I was just trying to get the trial over with so that I can see for myself if the detective was wrong in his arrest. For the botanist had told me that he never slipped anyone and that he was being framed. Instead of just taking their word for it, I thought the best way was have them both speak their case in a official setting with a third party as judge.
Of course, if the clown judge was unfair in his judgement I would have stepped in and worked something out.

I was personally in favor of the botanist but the fact that he was so upset made me worry. I considered just giving him his backpack without a trial but the detective complained.
If the botanist was truly innocent and the detective was harassing him. Then if I just gave the water backpack back to the botanist. Then the botanist could of have been subjected to further harassment by the detective.

I truly believed that I was acting in the best interest of all parties involved and wasn't wasting anymore time and resources than what was already spent with arresting the botanist in the first way.
I wasn't trying to punish anyone but resolve conflict. It wasn't my intention to have the botanist rage quit. Nor did I feel like I should reduce his punishment based on his whining alone.

Bobdobbington stated that it wasn't the taking of the backpack that I did wrong. But forcing everyone into a waste of time. I presented the trial as being optional but yet the only way the botanist was going to get his way.
The detective never expressed to me that I was wasting his time. He wanted to defend his case. The clown.. well he's a clown it's not like he had anything else to do.

[Bob Dobbington]

Based on what I was able to ascertain at the time, you monopolized the lion's share of the botanist's round over a detective slipping on water. That's dick behavior. Wall of text notwithstanding, you don't seem to a) acknowledge this or b) say you're not going to do it again. I'm not gonna re-litigate this in ban appeals after I spent an agonizingly long time doing just that in ahelps. I see no reason to lift this ban before its normal expiry date given what I've seen here.

[lollerderby]

Bobdobbington stated that it wasn't the taking of the backpack that I did wrong. But forcing everyone into a waste of time. I presented the trial as being optional but yet the only way the botanist was going to get his way.

If the trial was optional and taking the backpack wasn't wrong then how could this be bannable? It's fine to take the backpack and never give it back but not fine to offer a completely voluntary route to reacquiring the backpack?

[Okand37]

I see no reason as to why this should be a ban given the explanation. It isn't a waste of time, its stretching out a hand for others to interact optionally. It wasn't required of them to do it, I again don't see how trying to add (what could be) fun interaction to a round is something to be banned over when it isn't harming nor hurting anyone else. If we were to ban people for wasting peoples times, this surely isn't the place to start, because there is plenty more problems that can flatten someones round than an optional trial over a water backpack.

[Bob Dobbington]

Laughing_Rabbit's being really disingenuous about labeling the trial an "optional" interaction. Certainly the botanist didn't feel that way. Botanist doesn't have any access to the courtroom or the witness stand and could hardly be called "free to leave" But, I litigated this for a long time in ahelp, I'm not willing to spend hours digging through the logs to demonstrate that yes in fact you were being a dick. Loller ranks me and is free to overturn this ban if he feels it's not just.

[TechnoAlchemist]

Sounds like the botanist could have just like... walked away and they would have been fine before going all the way through to the trial and then deciding to kill themselves.

[lzimann]

From what I can understand the botanist was free to go anytime, but chose to stay in brig/front of brig trying to get his water backpack back(which he lost for slipping people with it). Honestly, I don't think the ban was justified from what was presented here.

[IrishWristWatch0]

From what I can understand the botanist was free to go anytime, but chose to stay in brig/front of brig trying to get his water backpack back(which he lost for slipping people with it). Honestly, I don't think the ban was justified from what was presented here.

There you have it.

[Laughing_Rabbit]

All the botanist had to do was leave security and do whatever he wanted.
As you said yourself, if I just took the backpack and told him to deal with it I wouldn't have been banned.
Instead I gave him a chance to get it back. He didn't like that I gave him a chance instead of just giving him his way.
So he kill himself, he put himself out of the game. Not me. I could have easily told him off and that he was never getting his backpack back and to stop bothering me.
He was just being salty, I noticed this and tried to ensure him that I was on his side and that I was creating the trial to help him not to harass him.
But, to give him a chance to prove his innocent.

He could have walked away. He walked into the court room himself. If he said he wanted to leave I would had let him.
He did express he wanted to leave with his backpack without the trial. But, if he really did assault the detective why should I have gave him his backpack back?
Just because he whined and harassed me?

[lzimann]

Bans are lifted.

[Laughing_Rabbit]

Thank you.

[oranges]

now rule zero jobban him from security for being a dick.

[Laughing_Rabbit]

^ OP law is OP ^
;_;

[Jacough]

I see no reason as to why this should be a ban given the explanation. It isn't a waste of time, its stretching out a hand for others to interact optionally. It wasn't required of them to do it, I again don't see how trying to add (what could be) fun interaction to a round is something to be banned over when it isn't harming nor hurting anyone else. If we were to ban people for wasting peoples times, this surely isn't the place to start, because there is plenty more problems that can flatten someones round than an optional trial over a water backpack.

I remember when I first started playing we had trials pretty often which could be pretty entertaining, especially when they escalated from somewhat civilized trials to full blown brawls (I vaguely remember one where the judge just had the two lawyers fight to the death to determine who would win the case). RP trials are actually something I'd like to see more often, especially if they involve clown antics and violence. Let's face it, some courtroom drama that ultimately ends with a trial by combat is a lot more entertaining for both the admins and players than some long winded admin pms between some greyshit chucklefuck who claims some shitcurity arrested him for no reason and the arresting officer.