[Saegrimr] ChemicalRascal - Shuttle bomb

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ChemicalRascal
 
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[Saegrimr] ChemicalRascal - Shuttle bomb

Postby ChemicalRascal » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:52 pm #207929

Byond account and character name: ChemicalRascal -- Kristina McLoskey
Banning admin: Saegrimr
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Sybil + Bagil
Ban reason and length: "Reason: Maxcapped the shuttle because a borg said "kill him", you killed everybody. Take some time off to realize how stupid that is." "This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 43800 minutes."
Time ban was placed (including time zone): ~12:55 AM 2016/09/02, ADST (UTC +11)

Your side of the story: Right, this might be a long one. Sorry about that, I've tried to make it as readable as possible.

Spoiler:
Joined in late-game as RD, quickly went to science, found toxins mid-setup but abandoned -- all plasma tanks were cold. Thought I'd quickly rustle up one or two because having a pocket bomb to remove an antag in an emergency is something I tend to do. Partway through, someone calls out spiderlings, and that's roughly confirmed when someone enters toxins dressed as the HoS, steals an (admittedly inert at the time) bomb, and puts me down (stunned with a stunstick, so clearly it isn't the actual HoS) and unconscious until I'm rescued by someone else. So I'm paranoid at this point.

The shuttle is called, I finally get a burnmix can somewhat heated, stuff a plasma tank into the underburnt can and run off to the shuttle. I figure at this point that maybe I can hide in a locker and if shit hits the fan, I can suicide away the antag's greentext. I've already seen one, I know they've got an inert bomb so they're planning on doing something to the shuttle, but I don't know the details. I'm dragging the underburnt can with me at this point, and eventually get onto the shuttle and kick it into the corner of the shuttle, next to the borg charger. H.U.M.A.N. is in the charger at the time.

Someone in an EVA suit enters from the mini-medbay, and asks me if I'm making bombs. Seems like a suspicious thing to ask, unless you had almost all the materials to make a bomb. I say (as far as I remember, at least) that I'm not, I've got one, and then H.U.M.A.N. jumps out of the charger and says "Kill hi". I don't think it's too much of a stretch to interpret that as "Kill him". I'm not an antag, H.U.M.A.N. didn't freak when I walked into the room before, so I follow the fleeing individual into the mini-medbay (which was empty, at least by memory), get beside him, and detonate, with a single TTV bomb in my backpack, that had been heating in-tank for surely less than five minutes at this point. It should have been weak, I was expecting it to be weak, but apparently it wasn't.


EDIT: Short version: Late-game RD. Known changeling round, was attacked in toxins. Got on shuttle with bomb, borg (H.U.M.A.N.) doesn't freak out until someone else enters the shuttle borg charging room thing. Borg says "Kill [him]", runs out, I follow the guy back into an empty room and detonate a single bomb which I expected to be quiiiiiiite a lot smaller than it turned out to be.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Two main reasons:

Spoiler:
Firstly, and I'm not kidding here -- you might consider this stupid, as you said, Saegrimr, but look at it from my perspective -- I had a more than fair enough reason to suspect that the borg, H.U.M.A.N., was referring to the person who just walked into the room. I figured that a borg player wouldn't say "Kill [him]" unless they were damn sure that that person was a threat, and especially given they didn't freak when I entered the room before made me feel confident they weren't referring to me. And, given it's a changeling round and the changelings had apparently been very, very successful thus far, a changeling murdering everyone mid-flight was probably a pretty likely outcome otherwise.


EDIT: Short version: I thought changeling was competent threat and would kill everyone, and trusted the borg's call for the space-suited guy to die.

Spoiler:
Secondly, I wasn't expecting that bomb to be anywhere near that big. Unfortunately, my screen blacked itself out post-ban so I didn't get a screenshot, but the blast seemed much, much bigger than maxcap, and there's no way that bomb was maxcap anyway -- remember, the can hadn't even been cooking for five minutes at this point. The in-tank burn method takes far longer than five minutes to get properly heated. What I was expecting was to step up beside him, detonate the bomb, and kill him. Probably not even gib, but whatever, provided he wasn't able to murderbone his way through the shuttle, I would have been happy. Instead, apparently, I "killed everybody", and I still don't understand how that's even possible. That bomb being maxcap doesn't make sense, and that devastation was bigger than a maxcap, but I was only carrying one bomb. I've let rip with multiple maxcaps stacked and seen less devastation. Something weird happened and I don't know what that was, I wasn't expecting it to happen, and if I knew that it would happen then I wouldn't have detonated.


EDIT: Short version: That bomb really shouldn't have resulted in that much destruction? No, really, I can't for the life of me understand how it blew up that much of the shuttle. It shouldn't have been anywhere close to maxcap, and that hole seemed much bigger than maxcap.

- - - - - - - - -


Now, you're probably still quite angry, and I get that, because nobody likes shuttle bombing. And I'm sure I didn't do wonders for your impression of the situation when my first reply was "The borg said "kill him"". I mean, come on, that reads like I'm twelve and hiding behind my hand saying "hehe, I've got an excuse". The situation was, unfortunately, more complicated than I could fit in a quick reply. I was still reeling from the collateral.

It might have been dumb, I'll freely admit that it probably was. When you stop and really think about it, there's no reason that a borg would know that one particular player is an antag in a changeling round, with any real certainty, and so H.U.M.A.N. saying "kill hi" at the time was probably a knee-jerk to something and a panic move on their part. I shouldn't have put any trust in that. But I did, and that was foolish.

So I totally understand why you slapped down a ban. A non-antag pulls a move that pisses many people off and responds with a glib, seemingly-bullshit answer. And if you want to hand out some punishment for that, fine. It's probably appropriate. A month feels incredibly excessive, though, from my perspective, though that is with the context of knowing my intentions. If you want to say "CR, don't touch bombs for a month", that's fine. An antag ban, a job ban, even putting me purely on cargo for the month, I'd get that. I regret what happened, and I don't plan to do it again, and certainly don't plan to use bombs before understanding why that blast was as big as it was.

But a month-long server-ban feels like you've pointed your finger at me in rage and screamed "fuck this guy until the end of time", for what was at the end of the day really just a mistake, and something going really weird with the explosion. I know my answer at the time wasn't great, and I'm sorry about that, because that wouldn't have helped your mood either, but there's only so much I can say when the Eye of Sauron an Admin bears down and I, already confused from the blast size, stress out a bit.
Last edited by ChemicalRascal on Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.



ChemicalRascal
 
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
Byond Username: ChemicalRascal

Re: [Saegrimr] ChemicalRascal - Shuttle bomb

Postby ChemicalRascal » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:55 pm #207930

Urgh, I'm going to shorten down those paragraphs a bit. That was more of a wall of text than I expected. I'll keep the originals rolled up in spoilers.

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Saegrimr
 
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
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Re: [Saegrimr] ChemicalRascal - Shuttle bomb

Postby Saegrimr » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:19 pm #207935

ChemicalRascal wrote:Thought I'd quickly rustle up one or two because having a pocket bomb to remove an antag in an emergency is something I tend to do.

I wish you wouldn't. Self defense bombing never ends well.

ChemicalRascal wrote:I figure at this point that maybe I can hide in a locker and if shit hits the fan, I can suicide away the antag's greentext.

Amazing.

ChemicalRascal wrote:Firstly, and I'm not kidding here -- you might consider this stupid, as you said, Saegrimr, but look at it from my perspective

ChemicalRascal wrote:And, given it's a changeling round and the changelings had apparently been very, very successful thus far, a changeling murdering everyone mid-flight was probably a pretty likely outcome otherwise.

I have a hard time seeing the perspective of "Hey look, someone who might be an antag, lets take out the entirety of the shuttle and everybody that wasn't in the command chamber to deny one person's greentext specifically!"

Also no, it wasn't a ling round. It was abductors. I guess you didn't recognize the unique stun stick they get and the fact that a ling probably wouldn't bother stunning someone and keeping them alive, but this is mostly irrelevant.


ChemicalRascal wrote:But a month-long server-ban feels like you've pointed your finger at me in rage and screamed "fuck this guy until the end of time", for what was at the end of the day really just a mistake, and something going really weird with the explosion.

I just ran with a general day per death you caused. That shuttle was PACKED full of people, man, and right before it you brought a huge flaming deathcan for what I recall you saying was also in case of a changeling before the borg grabbed it and ran out the shuttle. A moment later is when you detonated yourself.

I'll drop it down to a week since you seem to understand how bad this was, but i'm leaving the science ban up. Secondly this validhunter "gotta get that redtext" mindset is going to get you in more trouble than its worth later, I guarantee it.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

ChemicalRascal
 
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
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Re: [Saegrimr] ChemicalRascal - Shuttle bomb

Postby ChemicalRascal » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:38 pm #207937

(Heeeey look I'm going to backchat for some reason this'll go well I'm sure.)

Saegrimr wrote:
ChemicalRascal wrote:I figure at this point that maybe I can hide in a locker and if shit hits the fan, I can suicide away the antag's greentext.

Amazing.


Well, as in, after everyone else is dead, or such. I don't mean that as in I'd pop out of the closet and say "You're going to kill everyone? No, I'm going to kill everyone!" or whatever.

Saegrimr wrote:
ChemicalRascal wrote:And, given it's a changeling round and the changelings had apparently been very, very successful thus far, a changeling murdering everyone mid-flight was probably a pretty likely outcome otherwise.

I have a hard time seeing the perspective of "Hey look, someone who might be an antag, lets take out the entirety of the shuttle and everybody that wasn't in the command chamber to deny one person's greentext specifically!"

Also no, it wasn't a ling round. It was abductors. I guess you didn't recognize the unique stun stick they get and the fact that a ling probably wouldn't bother stunning someone and keeping them alive, but this is mostly irrelevant.


Well, they were interrupted by a third party (who I forget the name of), someone in an EMT suit but... apparently carrying a gun, from my memory of the sound. But anyway.

Saegrimr wrote:
ChemicalRascal wrote:But a month-long server-ban feels like you've pointed your finger at me in rage and screamed "fuck this guy until the end of time", for what was at the end of the day really just a mistake, and something going really weird with the explosion.

I just ran with a general day per death you caused. That shuttle was PACKED full of people, man, and right before it you brought a huge flaming deathcan for what I recall you saying was also in case of a changeling before the borg grabbed it and ran out the shuttle. A moment later is when you detonated yourself.


Oh, I wouldn't have detonated near that can, especially if I knew the bomb was as potent as it turned out to be. And even then, the detonation happened in a different room entirely, the mini-medbay, about four or five seconds (I think) after "Kill hi". I don't recall saying anything about the can being in case of the changeling? The bomb was in case of the changeling, releasing hot gas would have been an... incredibly slow way to deal with the hypothetical situation.

Saegrimr wrote:I'll drop it down to a week since you seem to understand how bad this was, but i'm leaving the science ban up. Secondly this validhunter "gotta get that redtext" mindset is going to get you in more trouble than its worth later, I guarantee it.


Is that science ban thirty days, or perma? I... kinda can't check myself. And I see what you mean, but I really only try to do it in situations where it's clear, I whiffed in this circumstance.

I still don't understand how I caused thirty deaths, though. I mean, if I did then I did, sure, but the bomb can't have been maxcap, it shouldn't have even effected that many squares north of the blast. Unless everyone was lying down on top of each other on the other side of the wall. Did the blast hit something else that in turn detonated?

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Wyzack
 
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Re: [Saegrimr] ChemicalRascal - Shuttle bomb

Postby Wyzack » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:10 pm #207940

Not sure if this is Anon3 amendment worthy but do you really not understand why doing something for no reason other than to try and deny green text is a shitty attitude to have?

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Saegrimr
 
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Re: [Saegrimr] ChemicalRascal - Shuttle bomb

Postby Saegrimr » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:24 pm #207944

At best you blew up a welding tank too but there were no other bombs, you just had a really good bomb in close proximity to the highest traffic area which is that mini medbay. Which is also pretty much the center of the shuttle if not off to the side. All in all i'd say you got 15-20 people at best, only about 4 people were alive on the shuttle afterwards. A month is the closest number I could remember and this was sort of expecting i'd be dealing with some random griefer who just kinda showed up to bomb have a laugh and leave considering i'd permabanned some guy in the same round for flooding escape and logging when I PMed him.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

ChemicalRascal
 
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
Byond Username: ChemicalRascal

Re: [Saegrimr] ChemicalRascal - Shuttle bomb

Postby ChemicalRascal » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:08 pm #207958

Saegrimr wrote:At best you blew up a welding tank too but there were no other bombs, you just had a really good bomb in close proximity to the highest traffic area which is that mini medbay.


Huh, weird. I guess I should work out what happened some time, then. On a local server and purely for the pursuit of knowledge, of course.

Saegrimr wrote:(...) this was sort of expecting i'd be dealing with some random griefer who just kinda showed up to bomb have a laugh and leave considering i'd permabanned some guy in the same round for flooding escape and logging when I PMed him.


Yeah, that's fair enough. I mean this in the nicest possible way (even though I'm aware it makes me look like a giant tosser), but you're human, it's fair that you'd expect that given what a non-antag shuttle bomber usually does indicate. Lotsa people are dicks.


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