/tg/Station 13

Byond account and character name: Retardedbaby (Marco Bicknell)

Banning admin:Emilc4h

Ban type (What are you banned from?): From joining server

Ban reason and length: 2-day ban for "randomly attacking 2 people on the shuttle with an energy sword"

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 10/9/16

Your side of the story: I was on the shuttle wearing a syndicate hardsuit that I got from killing a traitor, there were like three other people with syndicate hardsuits on there as well so im pretty sure everyone knew we weren't traitors and no one seemed to care so I just buckled in, about halfway through the shuttle some guy tries to stun baton me so I did what any sane person would do and I fought back, then after I finished with that guy someone else came and attacked me (I guess they thought I was a traitor at this point) to which I defended my self for a second time.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Honestly I think the whole thing is a misunderstanding because I was minding my own business originally and some dude tries to attack me. I understand I was wearing a syndicate hardsuit, but the whole station was destroyed by the singularity and I had no other spacesuits to wear, I literally defended my self and I got ban which seems a little unfair to me.

I've looked into the logs again and while you were definitely stunned first, you then e-sworded her into crit. Another person then proceeded to try to detain you, and you beat -them- into crit, too. You then went back to the first individual and finished her, while wailing on the second person not long after.

I understand that you defended yourself, but escalating from being stunned to murder is way over the top. In this kind of scenario, if you REALLY must retaliate, don't keep wailing on them once they're down - heal them up and explain your innocence.

In light of this and your past notes, I'd much prefer to keep the ban in place. It's for only two days, and hopefully you can use this time to consider what is and isn't appropriate escalation. Another admin is free to lift this ban if they find my judgment incorrect.

The absolute worst part about stuns in our game is confusion over whether they are lethal or not in regards to escalation.

I understand I went a little to far, but I only had an energy sword and nothing else, and honestly the main reason I finished them off is because we were on the shuttle, had we been on the station I would've critted them and brought them to medbay but it was so hectic, I do ask could you at least change the ban name from "randomly attacking 2 people with an energy sword" to something a bit more accurate.

Now that I have the full logs, I'll make sure to change it to be more accurate when I can. That being said, they were harmless to you as soon as they fell down. Finishing them off really isn't made any better by the fact you're on the shuttle - which, might I add, has its own medbay. Just make sure to be more careful about this sort of thing in the future and you'll be fine.

One main issue with this is the obvious start; wearing antagonist gear may make people believe you're an antagonist You got stunned for that, which is fine to defend yourself in this situation-but then you crit the person and left them to die, when there are two nanomeds and a semi-stocked medbay with two sleepers in the shuttle. You also did so to the other person who tried to defend the former person, as you were wearing obvious antagonist gear. The main issue is that you did not bother to bring them out of crit after defending yourself, and you do not seem to understand fully how that is a problem-especially when its on the shuttle.

@ Okand37 And like I said the whole station was destroyed and I didn't have much choice on what space suit I wore, and I completely understand how it's a problem, it was just a difficult situation because after I critted the first guy I had one guy trying to kill me and there were a ton of people on the shuttle and it was hectic(and yes I know I killed them while they were down which was dumb of me), that is why I said if it were on the normal station I could've easily dragged them to the medbay, I know that you're supposed to treat the shuttle like it's the station and not kill but it's not like I just attacked anyone out of no where, I was minding my own business.

Also I want to add by the time I killed them both it wouldn't had made a difference if I tried to save them.

The first person was the security officer Miku Frost. Everyone at this point was more than aware that someone had emagged cargo and ordered dozens of nullcrates, and that a singularity had eaten most of the station so people were using the syndicate hardsuits, so I imagine they had a different reason for stunning you once, but you'd have to ask Desucake.

I was the second person, who after watching you double esword a security officer into crit, used the only weapon they had on them (an autorifle they found in the space bunker) to try and stop you from continuing to stab them. There was a little bit of yakkity saxxing on the shuttle, made worse of course by Skylar Lineman deciding to just shoot a gravity gun into the situation, you throwing some shurikans at me, and then you going back to finish off the security officer.

It'd be good to find out why Desucake stunned you once, but it's pretty telling considering your first reaction wasn't even to consider looking at them and realizing they were a security officer, and instead go straight to pulling out your double esword and killing them and anyone trying to stop you.

I was the sec officer you killed, I only decided to arrest you cause you tossed in an EMP Grenade, then you brought out a e-sword, constantly turning it on and off. I tried to stun you, then saw you didn't fall and I remembered someone yelled about a "Rouge" Hulk. I used a flashbang and stun baton, since both of those didn't work, I just sat there and didn't figure out anything else to do after that. I was then chopped to death with your esword, I can see if I was continuing my stun fest..or even going lethal, but you seriously just killed me after I tried to stun you.

I threw the EMP at the M.U.L.E bot that was chasing me earlier trying to run me over.

This was all done in a small shuttle, you effect everyone when you do that.

This sounds like the kind of misunderstanding ss13 is allegedly supposed to create among players. I am not super familar with the players history but doing a slow motion dissection of the perfect way to escalate and then heal the people trying to kill you on the forums is not really fair or realistic to them. Not every death has to end in a ban. The intent of the players actions matters more than the rules as written in most cases and if the station was truly fucked to the point of needing a hard suit this doesn't sound like kill baiting.

It's true, and I probably acted more hastily than I should have on the information I had. I would've likely made it a dayban at most had he not disconnected at roundend and been unquestionable, as alongside numerous bad behaviour in the past, I assumed the worst.

I still think that, while it's undoubtedly unfair to pick at his actions during the crazed hell that is the escape shuttle, he should have known better than to return to the downed security officer and kill them - but I'm discerning all this from attack logs, so I don't know the precise situation.

It'll soon be a full day since the ban was placed, so if Kor considers it harsher than it should've been I'd ask him to remove it.

Well, if the person with the stunbaton was a security officer, then responding to that with an esword right away is kind of overkill.

Sligneris wrote:Well, if the person with the stunbaton was a security officer, then responding to that with an esword right away is kind of overkill.

Except security can and will murder you for having that stuff. "Die or get banned" is not a situation people should end up in if they're acting in good faith.

I suppose the solution should be try to explain that they aren't a traitor or run away instead. Attempting to disarm the stunbaton and restrain the officer could work fine, too. But if he tried neither and jumped straight to e-swording, it does seem a bit like bad escalation.

Kor wrote:

Sligneris wrote:Well, if the person with the stunbaton was a security officer, then responding to that with an esword right away is kind of overkill.

Except security can and will murder you for having that stuff. "Die or get banned" is not a situation people should end up in if they're acting in good faith.

Thats the whole thing, I honestly tried to stun him twice and failed, after that I gave up and sat there,since he wasn't very harmful. That was until he replied with an esword to my face, I normally don't try to arrest solely for traitor items, its how he tossed an emp then flashed his esword constantly.

The whole situation was just misunderstood and I do understand that you assumed badly of me because of my past since thats all you had to go off of, but I just wanted to add when I left the server I didn't even think I was going to get banned, I seriously thought I was in the clear and I was going to bed, had I really thought I did something wrong I would've stayed on to at least explain myself in the situation.

I just wanted to better explain my self so that if something like this happens again you won't have to go on what I've done in the past and maybe you could see that I'm not just some griefing asshole and that I had some reason to what I did.

I'll keep this in mind in the future. The ban should have expired at this point, but I apologise nonetheless for presuming the worst. Everyone acts less than perfectly in the heat of the moment, and seeing as you're aware that it wasn't the best idea to jump straight to murder then I'm going to say the thread is resolved.

To the rest involved, while the shuttle is a chaotic place indeed, it might be best to tell them to quit it before smacking them with a stunbaton next time. A bit of communication always helps with avoiding misunderstandings like this.