Roadhog1

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Shad0vvs
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:46 pm
Byond Username: Shad0vvs

Roadhog1

Post by Shad0vvs » #57373

Your byond account: Shad0vvs
Your character name: Lunar
Their character name: ?
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Roadhog1
Server and time: Sibyl 8:30 est~~
Logs and/or screenshots:
Description of what happened: Me and a borg and another guy are about to cremate a confirmed ling, A ling comes in and Ion rifles us killing the sec borg and bringing me to 0 modules. I take the sec borg to robotics and some guy follows me in takes the circular saw in and kills me, thinking I was rogue because of the shocked doors (ion rifle) and someone (a ling I think) screaming borgs rogue or something.

One shocked door from an ion rifle and one guy screaming borgs rogue does not rogue borgs make.

Cedar disagreed with me saying that he had a right to kill me because he had two pieces of evidence(that were incorrect). This makes no sense to me as if you kill someone that is a human because you think they're an antag and they arent, you would probably be banned. So I have to make this request to figure out why incorrect validhunting is allowed.

Why they should be banned: Killing someone because he thinks he was an antag and that was not an antag.
[03:37:46]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Alright
[03:37:47]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Shoot her in the face
[03:37:54]SAY: Sabella Rose/Burningone : Space law
[03:38:02]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : If she says space law again
[03:38:04]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Space her
[03:38:09]SAY: Phoebe Lotsu/Shaps : The true space law
Tsaricide
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:55 am
Byond Username: Tsaricide

Re: Roadhog1

Post by Tsaricide » #57376

I was the ling, you and the other borg were dragging a cuffed dead body to be burned so that along with the shocked door and the people yelling rogue borgs is probably why he killed you.
Shad0vvs
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:46 pm
Byond Username: Shad0vvs

Re: Roadhog1

Post by Shad0vvs » #57378

Tsaricide wrote:I was the ling, you and the other borg were dragging a cuffed dead body to be burned so that along with the shocked door and the people yelling rogue borgs is probably why he killed you.
I know why he killed me, Its in my post. Borgs can't use the crematory themselves, I like how nobody even thought of that before killing me.

Edit: clarification.
[03:37:46]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Alright
[03:37:47]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Shoot her in the face
[03:37:54]SAY: Sabella Rose/Burningone : Space law
[03:38:02]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : If she says space law again
[03:38:04]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Space her
[03:38:09]SAY: Phoebe Lotsu/Shaps : The true space law
User avatar
cedarbridge
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Roadhog1

Post by cedarbridge » #57380

http://pastebin.com/f2vFTr6q

This is the whole of the logs for the conversation we had on the matter. I did allow this request to be made and I stand by my reasoning contained herein.
Somejerk
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:04 am
Byond Username: Somejerk

Re: Roadhog1

Post by Somejerk » #57416

Wow, I'm surprised an FNR got made for that round. I was the Sec Borg who was with Lunar and I wasted nearly all my power stunning this guy to the cremator because he was using his EMP as he was getting up and thus died of no power. Killing the borgs because someone screamed rogue should not be the first option made, there's a lockdown option for a reason and you could've checked the damn laws. Not a single person questioned us and instead opted to murderize both of us and then blow us up which is total shit.

The AI told us the guy was a Ling, I stated on the radio he was a Ling in caps and I had a guy attempt to help us cremate the ling who was bumbling around to be honest.
Shad0vvs
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:46 pm
Byond Username: Shad0vvs

Re: Roadhog1

Post by Shad0vvs » #57459

For the record, I would like to note that I don't care about punishment given to this individual(which shoulda been a warning or a message at the least), I only wish to argue the decision the admin made, and this illogical concept that killing a non-antag isn't against the rules.
[03:37:46]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Alright
[03:37:47]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Shoot her in the face
[03:37:54]SAY: Sabella Rose/Burningone : Space law
[03:38:02]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : If she says space law again
[03:38:04]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Space her
[03:38:09]SAY: Phoebe Lotsu/Shaps : The true space law
User avatar
Saegrimr
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
Byond Username: Saegrimr

Re: Roadhog1

Post by Saegrimr » #57463

Killing a non-antag isn't specifically against the rules, theres a lot of context that needs to be derived from every situation. If it was so black & white that "non-antag died + non-antag killer" we'd have a system to automatically dayban them the moment it happens.

From what i'm understanding is you, as silicons, got caught up in something I had already been discussing earlier in another thread. The changeling you were about to dunk was screaming something about BORGS ROGUE in order to get away from you guys, and to direct attention towards the silicons and away from himself. This coupled with EMP being thrown around everywhere randomly shocking doors makes it look a lot like a rogue AI.

In a tense situation like this there isn't a whole lot of room for people to stop and go "Oh you silly AI, are you rogue?" - "Of course i'm not rogue." - "You should let me card you anyway just in case!"
They went off flimsy evidence and acted in a manner of self preservation in a situation where time isn't plentiful. They were mistaken, but not outright wrong.

Lets take a different situation, geneticist monkeys himself during a ling round in which multiple people have confirmed changelings (whether the geneticist himself knows or not) and gets beaten straight to death once spotted in the hallways.
Geneticist isn't an antag, he just wants to have a bit of fun as a monkey. Let's assume its a sec officer that beat the monkey to death, also not an antag.
Would the sec officer be wrong to assume the monkey wasn't a changeling and should be exterminated ASAP before he could escape or sting him with whoknowswhat?
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
Shad0vvs
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:46 pm
Byond Username: Shad0vvs

Re: Roadhog1

Post by Shad0vvs » #57466

Saegrimr wrote:In a tense situation like this there isn't a whole lot of room for people to stop and go "Oh you silly AI, are you rogue?" - "Of course i'm not rogue." - "You should let me card you anyway just in case!"
They went off flimsy evidence and acted in a manner of self preservation in a situation where time isn't plentiful. They were mistaken, but not outright wrong.
I think theres a whole lot of room to figure out if the ai is rogue, unless you you follow the 0 module borg(crit if I may) into robotics, grab the circular saw and attack him then chase him down all the way to the testing lab to finish him off. If you think this is self preservation where time isn't plentiful then the context of the situation wasn't explained/investigated properly, because I don't think chasing someone who you've never seen before and killing them is self preservation.

Why even have the lockdown option in the robotics console?
Saegrimir wrote:Lets take a different situation, geneticist monkeys himself during a ling round in which multiple people have confirmed changelings (whether the geneticist himself knows or not) and gets beaten straight to death once spotted in the hallways.
I don't see a problem with killing a monkey, have people been punished for this before? If so I've never heard of it. But I do like how you compare borgs to monkeys, its basically the same thing on this server.

If I were human and he was told by someone that I was a traitor, and lets say he saw me leaving the scene of a death, or there was blood on my clothes (two flimsy pieces of evidence, such as this case) and he kills me for it, It would have been a clear cut case of non-antag murder, that's why I don't understand this position, it's inconstant, why the inconstancy, why doesn't he have to have even a tiny bit of proof like you would as a human?
[03:37:46]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Alright
[03:37:47]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Shoot her in the face
[03:37:54]SAY: Sabella Rose/Burningone : Space law
[03:38:02]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : If she says space law again
[03:38:04]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Space her
[03:38:09]SAY: Phoebe Lotsu/Shaps : The true space law
User avatar
cedarbridge
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Roadhog1

Post by cedarbridge » #57489

Shad0vvs wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:In a tense situation like this there isn't a whole lot of room for people to stop and go "Oh you silly AI, are you rogue?" - "Of course i'm not rogue." - "You should let me card you anyway just in case!"
They went off flimsy evidence and acted in a manner of self preservation in a situation where time isn't plentiful. They were mistaken, but not outright wrong.
I think theres a whole lot of room to figure out if the ai is rogue, unless you you follow the 0 module borg(crit if I may) into robotics, grab the circular saw and attack him then chase him down all the way to the testing lab to finish him off. If you think this is self preservation where time isn't plentiful then the context of the situation wasn't explained/investigated properly, because I don't think chasing someone who you've never seen before and killing them is self preservation.

Why even have the lockdown option in the robotics console?
Unless I'm mistaken, you complained that somebody used the borg console some time after this event.
Shad0vvs
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:46 pm
Byond Username: Shad0vvs

Re: Roadhog1

Post by Shad0vvs » #57557

cedarbridge wrote:
Shad0vvs wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:In a tense situation like this there isn't a whole lot of room for people to stop and go "Oh you silly AI, are you rogue?" - "Of course i'm not rogue." - "You should let me card you anyway just in case!"
They went off flimsy evidence and acted in a manner of self preservation in a situation where time isn't plentiful. They were mistaken, but not outright wrong.
I think theres a whole lot of room to figure out if the ai is rogue, unless you you follow the 0 module borg(crit if I may) into robotics, grab the circular saw and attack him then chase him down all the way to the testing lab to finish him off. If you think this is self preservation where time isn't plentiful then the context of the situation wasn't explained/investigated properly, because I don't think chasing someone who you've never seen before and killing them is self preservation.

Why even have the lockdown option in the robotics console?
Unless I'm mistaken, you complained that somebody used the borg console some time after this event.
You're mistaken.

EDIT:Spelling
[03:37:46]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Alright
[03:37:47]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Shoot her in the face
[03:37:54]SAY: Sabella Rose/Burningone : Space law
[03:38:02]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : If she says space law again
[03:38:04]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Space her
[03:38:09]SAY: Phoebe Lotsu/Shaps : The true space law
User avatar
cedarbridge
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Roadhog1

Post by cedarbridge » #57579

Shad0vvs wrote:For the record, I would like to note that I don't care about punishment given to this individual(which shoulda been a warning or a message at the least), I only wish to argue the decision the admin made, and this illogical concept that killing a non-antag isn't against the rules.
Just saw this post here. If you don't actually care what the resolution is (something you never stated when asking where to put this thread) then there's really no reason for it to be a ban request.
Shad0vvs
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:46 pm
Byond Username: Shad0vvs

Re: Roadhog1

Post by Shad0vvs » #57581

cedarbridge wrote:
Shad0vvs wrote:For the record, I would like to note that I don't care about punishment given to this individual(which shoulda been a warning or a message at the least), I only wish to argue the decision the admin made, and this illogical concept that killing a non-antag isn't against the rules.
Just saw this post here. If you don't actually care what the resolution is (something you never stated when asking where to put this thread) then there's really no reason for it to be a ban request.
Then a mod can use the move function.
[03:37:46]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Alright
[03:37:47]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Shoot her in the face
[03:37:54]SAY: Sabella Rose/Burningone : Space law
[03:38:02]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : If she says space law again
[03:38:04]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Space her
[03:38:09]SAY: Phoebe Lotsu/Shaps : The true space law
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