Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Requests which have been closed

Moderators: In-Game Admin, In-Game Head Admins, Game Server Operators, TGMC Game Server Operators

User avatar
Summoner
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:56 pm
Byond Username: Summoner99

Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Postby Summoner » Tue May 19, 2015 9:54 pm #89408

Your byond account: Summoner99
Your character name: Alison Moon
Their character name: Jack Alice
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): No Idea
Server and time: Sibyl - 5:39 PM Eastern Standard
Logs and/or screenshots: Sadly don't got anything due to the round being over when I started writing this.

Description of what happened:
My point of view is this but it would probally be better if someone else who was involved would give their point of view in this thread, I'm just making the post.

Alright so shift started and I was a syndicate, I got the objective to kill some scientist so I decided to try to help the Scientists so I could kill the man later. I get into Science and get hired by the scientists there to be their assistant. After that I contact the AI to let me into the lower area of Science so I can get the metal and glass for RnD as they needed some. As I walked back up Jack was screaming over radio "DON'T LET HER IN ANYWHERE AI." "WHERE IS SHE?". The AI responded with "Lower Science." and I see the HoS run into science and I greet him. They grab their baton and run towards me and start harm batoning me, Joe the Scientist screams for the HoS to stop but the HoS continues and drags me towards Brig. HoS ignores the Scientists and others telling me to let me go and proceeds to put me in a cell for two minutes while saying "LA LA LA, CANT HEAR YOU OVER JUSTICE". I get out and apparently they harm baton the Clown and other folks, I walk to Science with my Scientist friend Joe and he contacts the Captain. We decide to make a coup with Officers and other civilians to remove the HoS from power as the Captain was 'afraid' apparently. So I get some Security and other members along and I get into Interrogation to save Joe who was screaming the HoS was killing him and so I killed the HoS. After the HoS died they started rambling in dead chat saying things like:
Code: Select all
DEAD: Jack Alice says, "I was right to take you out though" 
DEAD: Jack Alice says, "I don't quite like metafriendships"
DEAD: Jack Alice says, "I see you two together all the time"

Just blaming us all for being metafriends for working in the same department and all sorts.

That's just my point of view but it would be nice if someone with logs or was also involved to post, I wasn't fully there for a lot of the things.


Why they should be banned: They need job-banned or something from Head of Security, they overreact and can't handle the position, they run around harm batoning and being paranoid like crazy.



User avatar
TechnoAlchemist
 
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist

Re: Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Postby TechnoAlchemist » Tue May 19, 2015 11:36 pm #89429

The Ckey is Skyglazer, i'll try to get them in here to plead their case.

User avatar
Skyglazer
 
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:34 am
Byond Username: Skyglazer

Re: Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Postby Skyglazer » Wed May 20, 2015 12:09 am #89437

Summoner wrote:Alright so shift started and I was a syndicate, I got the objective to kill some scientist so I decided to try to help the Scientists so I could kill the man later. I get into Science and get hired by the scientists there to be their assistant. After that I contact the AI to let me into the lower area of Science so I can get the metal and glass for RnD as they needed some. As I walked back up Jack was screaming over radio "DON'T LET HER IN ANYWHERE AI." "WHERE IS SHE?".

The stigma today about assistants not assisting unless they need to infiltrate a department rings so true here, and I was right to assume the Alison was up to no good. Especially in a department like science, Alison can get her hands on some pretty nefarious tools such as weapons and bombs and mechs, and all sorts of xenobio goodies. As well as this, the term "AI, open," especially coming out of a greyshirt's mouth, is used to get into areas where you don't belong. When I arrested Alison, I was assuming that the scientists there did not want her because they did not let her in themselves.

Summoner wrote:The AI responded with "Lower Science." and I see the HoS run into science and I greet him. They grab their baton and run towards me and start harm batoning me, Joe the Scientist screams for the HoS to stop but the HoS continues and drags me towards Brig. HoS ignores the Scientists and others telling me to let me go and proceeds to put me in a cell for two minutes

Harmbatons, or the ONE that I gave Alison in this case, do 10-15 damage, and as long as I'm not killing you I have the freedom to mess you up a little if I believe you're going to try to run (all greyshirts do,) and I wasn't really caring about what Joe Shmoe had to say about Alison being in there unless it was the RD personally. Alison repeatedly said "I'M A SCIENTIST!!" while I was dragging her to the brig, and I checked her ID which just so happened to say assistant. If you couldn't have the RD/A scientist convince the HoP to give you science access, then you probably shouldn't be in there in the first place.
As well as this, two minutes and a quick search is not a hard sentence, and I didn't impede your access to science afterwards.

Summoner wrote:while saying "LA LA LA, CANT HEAR YOU OVER JUSTICE".

I don't know how you could take this as anything other than lighthearted, Summoner, but I think having a flock of people in front of the brig because you want to brig and search an assistant for being someplace they don't belong without HoP/RD approval can be responded to with a bit of silliness to ease the mood and make people remember that it's just a game and people are entitled to do, or for this instance, say whacky/zany things. I always giggle a bit when I see an officer scream "I AM THE LAWWWW!!" at the clown, but perhaps that's just me, and I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings.

Summoner wrote: I get out and apparently they harm baton the Clown and other folks,

The first time I roughed up the clown I had a medic on standby, and the second time I did it he had slipped me to let Alison's friend Joe toolbox me.

Summoner wrote: I walk to Science with my Scientist friend Joe and he contacts the Captain. We decide to make a coup with Officers and other civilians to remove the HoS from power as the Captain was 'afraid' apparently. So I get some Security and other members along and I get into Interrogation to save Joe who was screaming the HoS was killing him and so I killed the HoS. After the HoS died they started rambling in dead chat saying things like:

I love how you took the IC approach, Summoner, and I was hoping it would just stay that way, but now I must explain myself here. Oh well. I was, in fact, not killing Joe although it was well within my right to as he and a few other people had crowded around me after the clown slipped me in the halls and were beating me. All parties can recall that my HoS trenchcoat was drenched in blood, that blood was my own.

Summoner wrote:
Code: Select all
DEAD: Jack Alice says, "I was right to take you out though" 
DEAD: Jack Alice says, "I don't quite like metafriendships"
DEAD: Jack Alice says, "I see you two together all the time"

Just blaming us all for being metafriends for working in the same department and all sorts.

If there's one thing I'd have to pick to apologize for out of all of this, this would be the part. I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions, and I'm sorry I screamed at you and Joe in deadchat. I was salty that you killed me with a revolver while security stood idly by, only taking action after my only remains were a few entrails on a space tile. I've seen you and Joe interacting a lot, and you are on the server at about the same time every time one of you gets on, So I just assumed.

To conclude, I'm sorry to anyone whose round was genuinely ruined through my antics. I didn't kill anyone or keep anyone for more than two minutes, besides Joe who I interrogated for screaming "REVOLUTION!" and toolboxing me in the halls, so I don't see how that could be the case, but if anyone was truly upset. The salt got the best of me in the deadchat scenario but Alison ended up with her greentext anyways and everyone was happy, it was handled ICly and I was simply being a lighthearted HoS who doesn't just stun/cuff/brig. I'm sorry.

User avatar
Stickymayhem
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Stickymayhem

Re: Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Postby Stickymayhem » Wed May 20, 2015 12:29 am #89445

The stigma today about assistants not assisting unless they need to infiltrate a department rings so true here, and I was right to assume the Alison was up to no good.


You absolutely were not right in assuming their actions were shifty. This unevidenced greytide hatred is a big problem with your response here. Aside from it being entirely inaccurate, how do you expect assistants to behave reasonably when you absolutely refuse them the chance to, and directly prevent an exemplary example of an assistant from carrying on peacefully?

Especially in a department like science, Alison can get her hands on some pretty nefarious tools such as weapons and bombs and mechs, and all sorts of xenobio goodies. As well as this, the term "AI, open," especially coming out of a greyshirt's mouth, is used to get into areas where you don't belong. When I arrested Alison, I was assuming that the scientists there did not want her because they did not let her in themselves.


Borderline metagaming. An assistant can only be in science because they are after mechs and bombs? What if they just want to help? Or want some tools? Or want to be borged? Or even steal some materials. None of this would warrant your exaggerated response. Informing your behaviour to this extent, with no real regard for what is actually happening isn't acceptable.

Harmbatons, or the ONE that I gave Alison in this case, do 10-15 damage, and as long as I'm not killing you I have the freedom to mess you up a little if I believe you're going to try to run (all greyshirts do,)


Another assumption that informs your behaviour here. You do not have the freedom to attack people unprovoked because you BELIEVE they are going to run. This translates to "I beat you because you're an assistant and assistants are ALWAYS shit."

and I wasn't really caring about what Joe Shmoe had to say about Alison being in there unless it was the RD personally.


After someone within the department vouches for them, which they are in full rights to if the assistant is helping them, you should have at the very least reassessed the situation, and not outright ignored them.

Alison repeatedly said "I'M A SCIENTIST!!" while I was dragging her to the brig, and I checked her ID which just so happened to say assistant. If you couldn't have the RD/A scientist convince the HoP to give you science access, then you probably shouldn't be in there in the first place.


The assistant role is intended to be used as an assisting job. While this is rarely the case, they shouldn't be obligated to change their identification to comply with your personal view.

I don't know how you could take this as anything other than lighthearted, Summoner, but I think having a flock of people in front of the brig because you want to brig and search an assistant for being someplace they don't belong without HoP/RD approval can be responded to with a bit of silliness to ease the mood and make people remember that it's just a game and people are entitled to do, or for this instance, say whacky/zany things. I always giggle a bit when I see an officer scream "I AM THE LAWWWW!!" at the clown, but perhaps that's just me, and I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings.


I find this pretty funny too but you can see why it just exacerbated their frustration. That said, if you have an angry mob, try to take at least 30 seconds to think about why it might be the case. They tend not to form for no reason, and if they do in the case of random greytide, admins intervene extremely quickly now, as anyone who yells LETS ALL GO TO THE BRIG AND GREYTIDE at roundstart grimly understands.


I love how you took the IC approach, Summoner, and I was hoping it would just stay that way, but now I must explain myself here. Oh well


That you're gracious about summoner fucking you up in return is a big point in your favour here though.

Anyway, based on Skyglazer's explanation and apology here, I'm happy to leave this as a simple "Learn from this mistake" warning and a note about this situation. Yeah I'm not happy with how he handled the situation, but at the end of the day it was some problematic assumptions and some light skullcracking without any significant harm done. In the future don't make assumptions about assistants, and ideally don't be leaping after every person who asks the AI to open a door. It's not much fun for anyone involved, and makes you look as bad as you are.

You seem to understand where you went wrong. I'll leave this open a while for comment and add the note myself tomorrow when I get back if no one gets around to it.
Image

Image

Jacough
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:24 pm
Byond Username: Jacough

Re: Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Postby Jacough » Wed May 20, 2015 7:18 am #89511

If Sticky's inviting people to comment I'd like to comment on this little bit.

Harmbatons, or the ONE that I gave Alison in this case, do 10-15 damage, and as long as I'm not killing you I have the freedom to mess you up a little if I believe you're going to try to run (all greyshirts do,)


This in no way should be considered ok. I know everyone hates hearing this but you have stun weapons for a reason. There's no reason to do shit that'll cause actual harm just because "hurrr I thought they might run". You want to fuck with an uncooperative and borderline greytiding little shitbag, by all means do it but don't do shit that'll do some physical damage and for the love of God don't do it in the middle of a civilian area. Take them to the brig and mace them a few times or humiliate them by forcing them into a dress and flushing their regular jumpsuit down disposals.

The reason I'm salty about this and honestly don't see a warning as a sufficient punishment is because this kind of shit can potentially fuck up the round for the rest of security as well. You are the head of the entire fucking security department. Your actions can and may very well reflect on the outlook of the rest of security. When you start bashing the head in of some random fuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time people start getting that greytide mentallity rolling. Where does that lead? Take a guess. Bonus points if you figure out where it leads to with shittier ASIMOV AIs.

User avatar
Stickymayhem
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Stickymayhem

Re: Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Postby Stickymayhem » Wed May 20, 2015 7:49 am #89515

If he was an officer I'd agree Jacough, but the Head of Security has more right than anyone on his team to decide whether they will be risking the wrath of the AI or greytide. If an officer is upset at how security is run, he should genuinely roll for HoS and run it himself.

If Skyglazer hadn't shown up and given a sincere apology, or had responded badly to the riot I'd be less inclined to let them off with a warning
Image

Image

User avatar
Falamazeer
 
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:05 am
Byond Username: Wootanon

Re: Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Postby Falamazeer » Wed May 20, 2015 6:08 pm #89593

Jacough wrote:If Sticky's inviting people to comment I'd like to comment on this little bit.

Same.

Jacough wrote:Take a guess. Bonus points if you figure out where it leads to with shittier ASIMOV AIs.

Hmmm, The AI bolts down security, and they can't get out until the frothing hoard finishes breaking in.
Do I win?



Jacough is completely right about bad HoSs bringing the hoard down on the department, Public harm baton being a prime example of it, I for one don't roll for HoS because a good officer on a bad team might still be viewed as the one good officer, A good HoS on a bad team, is pulled into the muck right along side them. There are almost no instances where it's a good idea to publicly beat someone with a baton. Ops, changeling, wizard, guy with an Esword, But if you do it, and there is no clear reason why, you are going to attract a LOT of heat. and possibly ruin the rounds of every officer who knows better than to do such a stupid thing.

But sticky is also right, if anyone can, It's the HoS, but he probably still shouldn't for reasons stated

User avatar
Vekter
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Byond Username: Vekter

Re: Jack Alice - Harmbatoning and Shitcurity

Postby Vekter » Thu May 28, 2015 5:08 pm #91328

Sounds like this has been handled. PM me if this needs to be re-opened.
Image
Image
Image


Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you


Return to Resolved Requests

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users