Incomptinence wrote:Are you certain they were forming a mob until you broke the secrecy of syndicate activities? The first person you accosted was trying to cook a hot pocket for example.
People got shoved, I was going for an officer who at that time had drawn a baton (standing next to my master).
TheNightingale wrote:-slams her fist on the table- OBJECTION!
Tornadium's plea so far is as follows:
- He was emagged by Happi, who became the only Syndicate Agent.
- He had previously seen people with 'traitor gear' be killed by Security.
- Happi had 'traitor gear'...
- So Tornadium thought Happi would also be executed by Security...
- And started lasering people.
Whether or not Happi is defined as a syndicate agent is irrelevant, only his possession of the emag ('traitor gear').
Therefore, there are two logic jumps here we must assess.
The first, that Happi would be executed by Security for possessing an emag.
And the second, that stunning, then lasering people is a valid defense to this.
I would put forth that the first claim - {Happi would be executed for having the emag} - is untrue. This is because, as Tornadium put it, Happi was a Warden, and so it is incredibly unlikely that the rest of Security would turn on a known, implanted ally. I support this statement through Happi's order to "not harm any humans or non-humans" (the ambiguous wording of 'non-humans' also includes yourself - and you were putting yourself at risk, against both Law Two's order and Law Three itself, by doing so). This proves he had helpful or non-malicious intent, and that the civilian crew (those who were even aware of your emagged status, prior to your rampage) did not disapprove of his actions.
Other people were executed for HAVING the item, Not even using the item.
Also there was a gap of maybe 20 seconds (Someone can check logs) between the emagging and the fight breaking out. Security drew weapons, I acted.
Through inaction is the main point of concern here, I can't sit by and wait if I have very clear and reasonable reason to believe they would lynch the Warden. Hell Security has turned on the Captain and Lynched him for subverting the AI plenty of times.
Therefore, nobody actually minded you being emagged, and so there was no immediate or definite Law One threat against Happi. And without this, you can't use Law One as your justification. They didn't pose a danger to Happi - and so his Law Two order of "do not harm any humans or non-humans" takes priority.
The absence of someone objecting in the small time frame in which this took place does not prove that everyone was okay with it either.
This being said, stunbatons are non-harmful, yes, but were they needed? I propose that, when Tornadium stunned innocent civilians on the escape shuttle, he was fully aware that this would incite a riot - in fact, it seems this was his aim. He was not just putting himself at risk by doing so (against Law Three and Happi's Law Two order - after all, he was a non-human), but indeed, Happi himself was in potential danger!
When security start drawing weapons, Well yeah I feel that it was needed to prevent them from potentially detaining an executing my master.
Other silicons and AIs do the exact same thing by locking down people who execute prisoners. Would that lead to a riot and security most likely killing the borg or AI, Yeah but you do it anyway because of law 1.
The fact that it is merely potential danger is dubious support for lasering them, but the main problem was that, going against his master's orders, Tornadium deliberately started a fight, which predictably escalated into an order being disregarded. It's why an Asimov AI doesn't flood plasma, even though it's not harmful immediately. The same principle - 'common sense' - applies here.
I got mobbed, That's when the lasers came out.
Non lethal methods up to the point where I felt that non-lethal methods would not be sufficient to stop a lynch gang forming.
Common sense dictates that, indeed, Security was not a threat. Common sense dictates that starting a riot might get Happi harmed. Common sense dictates that going against one's lawset is a bad idea. So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you - should the accused not take a break from Silicon activity, so as to gain this sense he apparently lacks?
I rest my case.
Common sense dictates that Security had executed people purely for the possession of the item my Master held.
Common sense dictates that they would repeat this as they had done 3-4 times prior that I PERSONALLY witnessed.
Common sense dictates that I attempt to prevent harm to my Master before it has a chance to happen.
Your case is weak. As you all so duly pointed out, He's defined as a Syndicate Agent to me. Him being a member of Security has no bearing on my need to prevent him from coming to harm, especially when Security had been extremely execution happy. Lynch mobs have formed for less against members of Security and Heads of Staff, I feel it is a perfectly reasonable and justifyable response to prevent my master from coming to harm.
Say a human without internals or a suit wants to take a walk in space? Am I meant to only intervene once he actually starts taking harm or am I meant to prevent it all together when there is an extremely clear precedent for Space being harmful if people walk into it without Internals and a Suit?. Security established a precedent that round of executing and harming anyone they caught with the items my master possessed and he used it to subvert a Cyborg. Are you seriously trying to tell me there is no real justification or reason to act preemptively to stop my master getting killed?
