Ban request on Mazen30

[sirnat]

Your byond account: Sirnat
Your character name: Nathan Ward
Their character name: Cant remember
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Mazen30
Server and time: Sybil 11:15 9/8/2015
Logs and/or screenshots: Sadly im horrible at grabbing all neccessary logs.
Description of what happened: So, going into the chapel I had a toy which released bears,bees and a carp plus nice animals. I asked the people inside if they wanted me to use my toy, telling them it released a bear and they said yes so I did so.

After killing the bear the HoS rushes in, disarms the person with a "sord" (It was a wierd thing idk what it was), and to be a dick just jolly runs over to escape goes into the airlock and chunks it out!

I then disarm/push down the HoS with one click as im trying to get him before he throws it, and as I'm steadily swapping my intents to help him up as I run out the airlock, it grabbed him but I didn't upgrade my grab and I didn't even drag him I hit Q and ran out.

As im grabbing the sword, (Now outside in space already dying of oxy loss and pressure) the HoS made it back inside safely unharmed by me and released 3-5 lethal shots with his gun and hits me 2-3 times in space making me crit as I'm coming back to the station inside the airlock.

He didn't attempt to grab my corpse, which was in the second airlock door at the top of public escape airlocks.
He didn't attempt to taze/cuff me as I returned back to the escape lobby, he went straight for lethals when his life was not in danger.

Why they should be banned:
Valid hunting to the extreme when his life was not in danger at all when he began firing his weapon.
Did not attempt a non-lethal take down of me when I was returning, only shot laser rounds which also could've hit engineers who luckily made something outside of escape that I bounced off of.
Deserves a sec ban, this guy is a extreme valid hunt in this case and why should he be trusted to not kill others in the future for very minor shit?


Side note:
Shaps attempted to handle the situation and said that because I "grabbed" him and disarmed him I was valid salad.. When thats not how it goes, the HoS was inside safely the escape lobby firing out into open space hoping to kill me in space so he'd not have to get my body.

What happened to the, "If you dress it, you gotta act like it" basically when people were valid hunting to the extreme it was made where non-lethal take downs were required unless your ass was being harmed.

[Shaps-cloud]

The way that Mazen explained how this happened made it sound like you disarmed and grabbed him near an open airlock right after spacing the sword or whatever (which the logs DID show you disarming and grabbing him), which would absolutely make you valid as fuck because by the time someone has you in a passive grab, you only have like one second to react before they upgrade to an aggressive grab and hurl you out an airlock, at which point you're done. Where exactly were you when you grabbed him?

I will, however, say that he should have made at least a nominal effort to recover your body and have you arrested or something, leaving a body to husk in space when they can't hurt you is pretty poor practice in my eyes. I'll point him to this thread and tell him as such next time I see him on

[sirnat]

Right after I disarmed him I was hitting the hot key to change intents to help to pick him up (I mainly use f which changes it around clockwise)

But when he began firing, he was completely safe and had no reason to go full "Gots to get my valid!" When by that time I wasn't valid.

He had gotten into the lobby for a good few seconds, safe and sound no harm done to him from me, once I saw that he was grabbed I hit Q right away (Idk if logs are /THAT/ specific) because space wind was pulling us. I even didn't make a move to the external door until he was dropped so he wasn't dragged.

I could understand if the guy shot me INSIDE the airlock but he shot me after I went out and got the sord. He was safely inside and could've tazed/disabled me as I came back inside the airlock.

He also didn't shoot me dead, he shot me and left me to die as I was being killed by the space wind pulling me outside the airlock.

[PickleInspector]

I wouldn't issue any bans for this. As said above, grabbing someone near an airlock during a tense situation, accident or not, is pretty much intent to kill. He was being a dick in spacing your toys, but when he saw you potentially trying to murder him over it, he wasn't obligated to save you from space.

[sirnat]

He didn't space /my/ toy. But if I tried to kill him, grab would've been upgraded..

Here's what none of you are understanding.

He was /INSIDE/ the lobby, /SAFE AND SOUND/ for a good /FEW SECONDS/ while I /WAS OUT IN SPACE/ shooting to /KILL/ me when I was no threat to him.

[sirnat]

https://gyazo.com/00105b59bb10c8440c0578b488ac53c3

Seems he does't care about this ban request being put on him and doesn't want to take the time out to post something.

[NikNakFlak]

He has been directly PM'd to post here and stated he would do it later today.

[mazen30]

Hi i'd like to point out that the SORD wasn't even your SORD, i took it from somebody that isn't YOU
I moved to the dock port where the escape shuttle docks and i spaced the SORD that isnt a very harmful object by the way
and then you chased me, Disarmed and Grabbed me claiming you press F and it swapped your intent from disarm to grab.
I just tested that shit and it switched my disarm grab to help intent so i highly doubt you are saying the truth


Anyway,you pushed and grabbed me wich gave me the thoughts you are going to space me so i pushed you too without even using any weapons and space sucked you then i mindlessly shot you ONCE with laser not 3-4 as you claim,i also did not pervent you from getting back to station,i just didnt want to get sucked too since i didnt have something that portects me from space

[sirnat]

Can anyone obtain logs of how many shots he hit me with?

Also, the hotkeys are F&G and they're close together.

Also it doesn't matter if its my SORD or not, you were a dickhead who just spaced someones toy, you're a HoS not a fucking assistant.

You're supposed to jail people who steal shit, IE you stole something you spaced it. Your fault you got chased down and disarmed.

[mazen30]

Well you kinda said it,i am the HoS and you are not an officer

[sirnat]

Kinda said what? It looks like you're grasping for straws here.

It doesn't matter if i'm an assistant if you steal someones shit who im interacting with just to be a fucking idiot shitler, im going to disarm your ass to get it back.

You deserve a HoS/Sec ban just for even doing that fnr.

[Chesh]

[02:50:09]ATTACK: Jayden Rich(mazen30) shot Nathan Ward(sirnat) with the laser (NEWHP: 90)
[02:50:10]ATTACK: Jayden Rich(mazen30) shot Nathan Ward(sirnat) with the laser (NEWHP: 67.5)

He shot twice.

Sirnat playing internet lawyer when his greytiding backfires 2: Electric Boogaloo

[mazen30]

[02:50:09]ATTACK: Jayden Rich(mazen30) shot Nathan Ward(sirnat) with the laser (NEWHP: 90)
[02:50:10]ATTACK: Jayden Rich(mazen30) shot Nathan Ward(sirnat) with the laser (NEWHP: 67.5)

He shot twice.

Sirnat playing internet lawyer when his greytiding backfires 2: Electric Boogaloo

Well, my mouse have an annoying issue that sometimes it makes dbl-triple clicks in one click; its annoying and sometimes i lose lots of chemicals as changeling when i use it
I didnt mean to shoot him, i wasnt thinking at the moment i did so but he isnt security to begin with and try to space me for such a stupid item

[Scones]

Yeah, this seems like an IC issue in entirety, and a really bad case of someone trying to lawyer a ban onto someone else who really didn't do much outside the standard purview of their role.

Unless anyone has any shocking new evidence, I'm going to lock this later today.

[sirnat]

"IC issue"

>in space without a space suit and he knows this

>he thinks itd be smart to shoot lasers at me when he's safe and sound

>Didn't retrieve my body like he's supposed to.

This isn't a ic issue, this is a issue with him going fucking lethal in the first place while he was not in danger. Noone seems to understand that.

I've said it before, ill say it again.

He was inside the escape lobby while I was in space, what did he have to shoot lethal lasers for? Why did he have to try and shoot me while I was in space?

He had no reason to go lethal in the first place.

Plus, two lasers plus space pressure killing you crits you pretty fast, and my "lawyering" yet idek who the hell you are.

The guy had every option to tase me as I came back in through the airlock, he didn't have to go lethal.

And like I've said again, no attempt to space him was made. I could understand if the grab was upgraded as I left the airlock but it wasn't, it was dropped as soon as it happened, that's his fault for being inside the lobby and thinking "I'm completely safe shooting at someone without a space suit out in space with lethals for merely disarming me for being a shit and spacing someone's stuff!


Oh look what I found in sec rules.

Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.

[Akkryls]

- Severe Personal Risk - sometimes getting close enough to a target to slap the cuffs on will create significant personal risk to the Officer. Deadly force from range is recommended to subdue Wizards and Changelings.
Criminals in hostile environments such as space, fire, or plasma leaks also fall into this category, as do criminals believed to be in possession of high explosives. Ranged lethal force is the only reasonable option in these conditions.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Space_law# ... Situations

If he was in the escape lobby without a suit, and you were in space with a suit, he's entirely within his purview to gun you down. This being after you made (From his point of view) an attempt on his life.
It sounds like shit happened to both sides from general dickishness, so it basically is an IC issue.

[sirnat]

I didn't have a space suit, I was in my grey jumpsuit. I went out, retrieved the stolen item which he spaced as the hos, was coming back to get by 2 lasers, whilst taking damage in space as well.

[mazen30]

Number one, The SORD wasnt your SORD
Number Two, You wasn't interacting with that person i took the SORD from, i just saw you coming from about 5 tiles away chasing me
Number Three, You aren't fucking security to try to space me for that shit
Number Four, I was in the docking area where the shuttle docks, not in the lobby itself
Number Five, You Pushed, Grabbed and Claimed you wasnt going to space and pressed F then changed up your mind and said you pressed G instaed
Number Six, You are dumber than me, Holy shit.

[sirnat]

1. I was interacting with the person in the chapel
2. I didn't attempt to space you, if I wanted to space you I would've done so.
3 F&G change intents using this as a "Well you said F!" Isn't going to work.
3. You're not even able to handle this calmly.
4. It doesn't matter if it was my own sord, if we were interacting with whoever owned it and you randomly come in and disarm him just to space it then I'm gonna help him get it back.
5. Why'd you even space it, you've yet to give reasoning.
6. The escape lobby is the indoor area right outside science and chapel, that's where you were as you can't shoot through airlocks with lasers. Good try though.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I don't see how, even with the most malkevin-like mind in the world, being disarmed after stealing random toys from assistants, then murdering said assistants when they try and get the toy back, can be justified because "He grabbed me once, then let go and helped me up CLEARLY TRYING TO SPACE ME".

In addition,

Well, my mouse have an annoying issue that sometimes it makes dbl-triple clicks in one click; its annoying and sometimes i lose lots of chemicals as changeling when i use it
I didnt mean to shoot him, i wasnt thinking at the moment i did so but he isnt security to begin with and try to space me for such a stupid item

"Oh, uh I shot him twice, once into crit and a second time after he was in crit? OH UH MY MOUSE SOMETIMES DOUBLECLICKS HONEST HONEST (We have like a 0.1s clickdelay on laser guns, this is impossible unless he accidentally turned on an autoclick macro)"

This might sound like a segue, but a HOS who steals things off crewmembers, spaces them, then kills and leaves in space the body of people trying to get in back then lies about shooting them on the forum is pretty far beyond "IC issue :D"

[sirnat]

Doris thanks for the help there, just one minor thing someone may bring up:

I got shot twice as I was in space alive but sent into crit because of the wounds he gave as I was going back into the airlock.

And even though ai was rogue he didn't know that then and still didn't try to get the body which I've always been told you can't space someone unless you're a soul antagonist, am I right?

[Scones]

I really still don't see this as actionable.