Ye Olde Amigo: Sabotaging mechs as non-antag

[Luke Cox]

Your byond account: NocturnalQuill
Your character name: Luke Cox
Their character name: Ye Olde Amigo
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): DarkNightSin
Server and time: ~9:00 PDT, 9/11/2015
Logs and/or screenshots: Referenced numerous times in chat logs. He admitted to it.
Description of what happened: Was RD, decided to go to the clown shuttle to get some bananium and make a H.O.N.K. When I got back and started making it, Ye Olde grabbed the half-completed chassis and tried to space it. Security stopped him and told him to stop. He then kept dumping the remaining parts in disposals. I tele batoned him, and demoted him while security held him. He then broke into robotics and kept sabotaging the mech.
Why they should be banned: Disobeyed orders, griefed robotics.

[TechnoAlchemist]

This isn't quite ban worthy. Honk mechs are pretty horrible to deal with, and I understand the motive behind these antics. I say this is definitely an IC issue, however frustrating it may be.

In these sorts of situations you can dunk the offenders for breaking into your workplace and sabotaging your operations, especially as the RD.

[sirnat]

This is a clear rule 1 violation, being a dick.

He disobeyed rds orders.

He continues to ruin someone's hard work in making a mech.

Him having "motivation" to space it, yeah I bet he did.

I'd say unless he gives a reason as to why he continued to do so, he'd need a science job ban.

(Admins have been ruling EVERYTHING ic lately, but let you kill a cuck for fucking with you and they're all about the ban hammer. Why is nothing being done about dickheads lately?)

[imblyings]

Disobeying your head of staff isn't bannable. It can be a contributing factor in extreme cases but never by itself. Sabotaging the creation of a mech in this instance was an IC issue, constantly doing it unprovoked steps over the line.

Ahelp the next time it happens or just skip straight to dunking him. I've seen plenty of cases now where people crit others for being dickheads and chuck the offender's body into medbay and as long as you act reasonable about it, I'm ok with it.

[Luke Cox]

My main issue with this is that security attempted to handle it in an IC manner, and he continued being a dick anyways. I could have lasered the guy to crit with the retro laser I had from the white ship, but I was afraid I'd get banned for it. A science jobban would make me happy.

[sirnat]

Thats what I'm talking about. They tell us, "You can cuck them!" but when you do, they hit you with the ban hammer. But let you report someone for being the ultimate shitler, and the person doesn't get banned. It's starting to get old, and its tiring even trying anymore.

[Luke Cox]

Thats what I'm talking about. They tell us, "You can cuck them!" but when you do, they hit you with the ban hammer. But let you report someone for being the ultimate shitler, and the person doesn't get banned. It's starting to get old, and its tiring even trying anymore.

So much this. If I dunk somebody, I get bwoinked. If I don't, I get told "handle it IC"

Disobeying your head of staff isn't bannable. It can be a contributing factor in extreme cases but never by itself. Sabotaging the creation of a mech in this instance was an IC issue, constantly doing it unprovoked steps over the line.

Ahelp the next time it happens or just skip straight to dunking him. I've seen plenty of cases now where people crit others for being dickheads and chuck the offender's body into medbay and as long as you act reasonable about it, I'm ok with it.

I did, admins ignored me

[sirnat]

Anytime someone fucks with me now-adays and takes it too far I try and ahelp it to get the admins to handle it, when they dont I just wind up killing the person and I tell the admin handling it im just going to kill the person.

If they ban me oh well, wouldn't be the first time.

[mazen30]

I dont see its bad to sabotage H.O.N.K. tbh

[imblyings]

Bwoinks happen a lot of the time because an admin has no idea what is going on after someone ahelps being dunked. We need to bwoink because we need to hear your side of the story and let you defend yourself against whatever accusations some stranger online is throwing at you.

It's also literally in the rules that you can retaliate as long as it's not excessive. But that's not all, "If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety". I play the same game as you do, I get shit on by the same sort of shitters that shit on people and I understand when the need arises to just crit or kill someone for being a repeated dick. Just be reasonable normal human beings right, and admins won't care if you had to dunk someone.

Bans don't exist to make people happy. They're there to hopefully induce unpleasantness to a stranger on the internet, to try and dissuade them from doing something we don't want them to do in the future. They also exist to keep the irredeemable away from players as a measure of loss prevention. Bans, when done to achieve one or both of those goals, sometimes have the side effect of making people happy and sometimes people being happy is a good metric of whether those two things were achieved or not but it's never the sole reason for a ban.

This incident was IC but darknightsin also happens to have a collection of notes that slowly keep on getting added to when he comes online, including one involving deconning the fabs for no reason. A dayban or something from science is useless imo, it doesn't induce unpleasantness nor does it keep them away from a science job for any appreciable amount of time. A weekban or perma I usually see for incidents like gross misconduct, usually bombings involving deaths and the like. I'll add a note, detailing his propensity to be disruptive and his eligibility to play science roles can come into question in the next time he does something like this.

and Sirnat, come up with some actually related or actionable or don't post constantly.

edit actually with all the shit I've said about being able to defend yourself because bwoink, I may as well hold off until I get darknightsin to reply. It might not change anything but for fairness.

[DNS]

was pretty dickish of me to attempt spacing it which I failed miserably anyway, but afterwards the worst I did was throw a leg in disposals. an RD making a honk mech to "combat changelings" doesn't seem right at all. you then proceeded to spend a good time powertripping over me when I was actually just trying to do my job, and batonning me while there was plasma flooding into robotics which thankfully I was able to stop inbetween blows by hitting the shutters. for goodness sake I was mid surgery and you'd just keep whacking me for doing nothing at that point. even security let me go after two witnesses stated you were just needlessly whacking me and I had severe plasma poisoning from you doing as much.

[Luke Cox]

was pretty dickish of me to attempt spacing it which I failed miserably anyway, but afterwards the worst I did was throw a leg in disposals. an RD making a honk mech to "combat changelings" doesn't seem right at all. you then proceeded to spend a good time powertripping over me when I was actually just trying to do my job, and batonning me while there was plasma flooding into robotics which thankfully I was able to stop inbetween blows by hitting the shutters. for goodness sake I was mid surgery and you'd just keep whacking me for doing nothing at that point. even security let me go after two witnesses stated you were just needlessly whacking me and I had severe plasma poisoning from you doing as much.

There were shadowlings, and I was building a HONK because it has a built in light and a powerful stun. I was wacking you and trying to throw you out because you were fucking fired and I knew you'd keep throwing shit in disposals if you stayed. I demoted you, and you broke into Robotics anyways. Based on what I'm reading here, I would have been within my rights to crit you and drag you out.

[imblyings]

I still think it's IC, Luke would have been in his rights completely to crit and toss DNS out, DNS said trying to space it was dickish and that'll be noted, and hopefully he won't do something like that again.