Milk Milkie - Deleting Cloning Record FNR, Delaying Round

[Duncdar]

Your byond account: Duncdar
Your character name: Mariabella Pycroft

Their character name: Milk Milkie
Their byond account: Snerdly

Server and time: Bagil, 12pm EST.

Logs and/or screenshots: Provided on request for disputed claims.
Description of what happened: The Head of Security, Milk Milkie (Snerdly), and the Captain, Naomi Ghost (GothamStyle) got into an argument about calling the shuttle. Milk, claiming everyone else disappeared (without asking), deemed it was necessary to call it. Naomi recalled the shuttle, with two of the three (three!) people playing at that time wanting to continue. Words were exchanged between the two of them, mostly "fuck" and "you", but it never escalated more than just words. Threats started to fly, and the Captain recalled me back to the station. Once there, we went detain the HoS. In a PDA message, Naomi stated she wanted to "end him permanently", but at no time did either of us, despite having the ability, engage him first with lethals. After he tased the two of us, he began to laser Naomi to crit. Upon getting up, Naomi and I proceeded to shoot him to death. The encounter was started by us with disablers.

I believe, but am not certain, the shuttle ping-ponged thrice with Naomi recalling it every time. He ignored requests that we were content, and that he could zone out in his office if he wished.

After this, I drug his body to cloning in an attempt to clone him, but noticed that my record was deleted. After verifying his ID as being able to delete records, (and the fact there was a MIF) I tossed him into the morgue. He had absolutely zero reason to delete my cloning record as I never interacted with him before he deleted the record. Also, note that this was set to autoprocess and I relied on it to save my ass should I die while mining.

After this, a ninja came and proceeded to kill the entire crew (three!) and revive two of them as pod people. They were placed in the permabrig, and from this point on he disregarded his objectives and extended the round. He called/recalled the shuttle at least once. I have no complaint over him killing myself and Naomi as a ninja, as it was fully within his objectives to do so.

He does claim that he was wanting to get us back into the round via making pod people. Regardless, the round continued for an extra hour because he simply chose to delay it. In the end, we had to vote restart, after which he called us all fags. Due to the restart and the fact the logs aren't updated yet, I do not have his objectives.

There's also a separate incident (9/26/15, 9pm-12am, Bagil) of him, a Security cyborg, ignoring an AI's (TheGlyde, Flashback778) orders and disregarding laws to not stun/arrest the HoS. The HoS and myself, as warden, arrested and borged him for capital crimes (powersink, enemy, etc.) and he flipped his shit. We locked him down and released him three times, each time giving him another chance and blatantly saying no actions we committed marked us as currently harmful. He ignored us every time. After spending five minutes trying to restart him with three other people, we gave up and left him in Robotics.

Why they should be banned: Metagrudging, delaying the round for well over an hour as an antagonist. A full FNR thread can be made for the cyborg incident if required.
Logs will be provided for any disputed content.

[Snerdly]

That's odd, you seem to have forgotten the part where you broke space law as the Captain and derelict-ed your duty? Oh, and did you also forget to mention that you said that you would murder me, before I even threatened you? Hmm, you also seem to have forgotten that even with two people, you still decided to shoot me with stolen contraband. Sure, I shouldn't have lasered you, but there were two of you and only one of me, and I had only one pair of cuffs. I still would've cloned you, but you got up and instantly shot me with .50s.

Then RNG came around, and I got ninja'd as a ghost. My objectives were to protect the Captain, which I was unable to do so because she -instantly- started shooting the fuck out of me as soon as I got close to her. I was unable to clone people because I accidentally drained the APC in the cloning room, so I used the podcloning, to which I got an error message saying the seeds rejected her blood. The rest of the crew continued to attempt to kill me on sight, so I killed them, and then plantmen'd them and put them in permabrig. I was actually going to try and do something funny and put all the plantpeople on the asteroid and "liberate" them, but the assistant that I was trying to put in charge of the whole thing ALSO ended up TRYING to kill me, unprovoked. Then, I was literally oon my way to the bridge when they all voted to restart.

In regards to the borg incident, no one actually told me to stop being a shit. I wasn't harming anyone, and I wasn't doing anything against silicon laws. The sec officer that was basically turning the round into his personal playground was ordering the AI to lock me, never did he order me to release him or stop.

tl;dr I get fucked with by a faggot captain then ganked, then RNG grants me ninja and I murderbone them, so they cry.

[Snerdly]

EDIT: I thought the poster was the Captain. Gotham was actually the captain and he says I acted valid.

http://imgur.com/1YuDzbU

[Duncdar]

Oh, and did you also forget to mention that [Naomi] said that [she] would murder me, before I even threatened [her]?

Directly mentioned in "Naomi stated she wanted to 'end him permanently'". I do not understand how this can be taken any other way than as a direct death threat.

Hmm, you also seem to have forgotten that even with two people, you still decided to shoot me with stolen contraband.

Please explain how the energy guns we used are stolen contraband. Given her role as captain, and her direct approval for me to be armed, these are not considered contraband items.

Then RNG came around, and I got ninja'd as a ghost. My objectives were to protect the Captain, which I was unable to do so because she -instantly- started shooting the fuck out of me as soon as I got close to her.

Did you state your purpose? She likely attacked you on sight because I yelled there was a ninja. I cannot verify it since the logs aren't updated but I'm near certain you attacked first with your throwing stars.

I was actually going to try and do something funny and put all the plantpeople on the asteroid and "liberate" them, but the assistant that I was trying to put in charge of the whole thing ALSO ended up TRYING to kill me, unprovoked.

While admittedly not relevant to the FNR, he attacked you because you killed the rest of the crew.

In regards to the borg incident, no one actually told me to stop being a shit. I wasn't harming anyone, and I wasn't doing anything against silicon laws. The sec officer that was basically turning the round into his personal playground was ordering the AI to lock me, never did he order me to release him or stop.

This should fall into a rule one violation. Acting shitty towards another crew-member, especially given the circumstances where it can be viewed as metagrudging, because "I wasn't told to stop" is not valid.

tl;dr I get fucked with by a faggot captain then ganked, then RNG grants me ninja and I murderbone them, so they cry.

I explain that I have no problem related to the rules with you murderboning - in fact you didn't have much of a choice since the crew was against you. This thread is placed, primarily, because of delaying a low-pop round by an hour when you have clear objectives to complete. Making pod people and throwing them into perma is not your job as a ninja. While you have reason to clone the Captain, as she was your protect objective, your other actions were not justified to carry out your tasks.

I would also like to know why you thought it was appropriate and on any level acceptable to delete my cloning record as the Head of Security, when we shared no physical interactions in game and only a few over the common channel.

[Snerdly]

Because autocloning as a non antag is meta as fuck

[Duncdar]

Because autocloning as a non antag is meta as fuck

I'm sorry? How is this a response? How is it meta? It's an upgrade to a VITAL system that's required for the station to function efficiently. There is /zero/ reason to delete someone's genetic backup if you're both non antags. This also ignores the fact that mining is dangerous and death is a possibility - it's foolish and irresponsible to go without a backup. If I were to die, you would effectively remove me from the entire rest of the round fnr.
I honestly can't believe this even has to be explained. Are you just typing things to type them?

[Shaps-cloud]

...how is autocloning meta?

[Snerdly]

Because it instantly garuntees that you're revived when you die. There was a big issue with it on a different server when people would just keep autoing

[Scones]

Because autocloning as a non antag is meta as fuck

...Pardon?

[Snerdly]

It's like spray bottling chemicals. It's just not something that is commonly accepted

[Wyzack]

Dude what? Auto cloning is perfectly fine, has always been perfectly fine, and is literally the only reason the auto cloner exists

[Snerdly]

That's odd, because whenever I use it, people always rage at me and claim I'm meta-ing.

[JustAnotherNerd]

Uh, right...Well. I made an account just for this. Anyways. We all know the story. I hope this comes out alright.

Oh, and did you also forget to mention that [Naomi] said that [she] would murder me, before I even threatened [her]?

Directly mentioned in "Naomi stated she wanted to 'end him permanently'". I do not understand how this can be taken any other way than as a direct death threat.
^^ Correct. However, I really just wanted to put them into perma, henceforth why I wrote ">>PERMA<nantly". I see how this got turned against me, but I really didn't mean it that way.

Hmm, you also seem to have forgotten that even with two people, you still decided to shoot me with stolen contraband.

Please explain how the energy guns we used are stolen contraband. Given her role as captain, and her direct approval for me to be armed, these are not considered contraband items.
^^ Since I'm acting impartial, as the round didn't really bother me, I'd just like to say that I -did- take the Desert Eagle from the contraband locker. However, I'm preeeetty sure it's not "stolen" if it's the Captain carrying it around. After all, it -is their- ship.

Then RNG came around, and I got ninja'd as a ghost. My objectives were to protect the Captain, which I was unable to do so because she -instantly- started shooting the fuck out of me as soon as I got close to her.

Did you state your purpose? She likely attacked you on sight because I yelled there was a ninja. I cannot verify it since the logs aren't updated but I'm near certain you attacked first with your throwing stars.

^^ As stated, I had not a clue what the Ninja wanted. I didn't want to power-game by immediately linking his death with the RNG-spawn of the ninja, but I opened fire anyways because of self-defense yada-yada.

Overall, I don't really want anyone getting banned. In a summary view, I was impartial to even the Ahelps Duncdar let out, not even bothering with one myself as I had very little salt to use in the "stew of rage" that Duncdar was constantly stirring. If anyone should get banned, it should be me, for shooting a guy dead with a Desert Eagle that I had "technically" stolen. Not saying that I want to be banned, minding you, but I think this is pitiful over something that the person-who-should-be-pissed isn't pissed. (That person being me).
That stuff about uh, cloning and stuff?
That's not meta-gaming. Not by a long shot. It's not even power-gaming, because in SS13 you are to...
Expect to be the one who dies.
Apologies for the mess I made on this. First post n' all.

[Stan_Studnick]

That's not meta-gaming. Not by a long shot. It's not even power-gaming, because in SS13 you are to...
Expect to be the one who dies.
Apologies for the mess I made on this. First post n' all.

Question about this, when was the record deleted exactly? Can an admin find out?

If it was deleted during what was essentially a mutiny committed by the HoS then I think that greatly adds to the circumstances, especially since their admission that "it's meta as fuck" and "well people get mad when I do it" seems a little odd. I don't think I've ever heard autocloning to be considered metagaming, powergaming, or anything like that.

[lumipharon]

This is the same shittler that repeatedly forced his way into an admin shuttle at the end of an admin inspection event, then cried in OOC for half an hour calling everyone faggots because he got gibbed at centcomm for his troubles, and how he din do nuffin.

Also why the fuck would you murder your protect objective? They shot you. Big deal, you're a fucking ninja. Go invisible, jaunt away, disarm them and hide them in a protective room or whatever the fuck. Killing them makes no sense, and before the rules got tidied up, was explicitly against server rules (dunno if it still says so now).

[Shadowlight213]

Autocloning is not considered metagaming. I don't know which server you heard that from, but it is not the case here.

Who cares? Dying is part of the game you nerd.

That's not the attitude you presented when you got gibbed in the round lumi mentioned.

[Snerdly]

yes, because centcom officers are capable of using ei nath.

Well, I guess I see now how deleting a clone record can be bad. I apologize for doing so. Sorry for murderninja-ing as well.

[Screemonster]

Erasing clone records sounds like something that should appear in the admin log if it doesn't already.

[Bawhoppennn]

This is the same shittler that repeatedly forced his way into an admin shuttle at the end of an admin inspection event, then cried in OOC for half an hour calling everyone faggots because he got gibbed at centcomm for his troubles, and how he din do nuffin.

I'd like to chime in and give the pastebin of relevant OOC logs regarding to how he acted in /that/ situation.
http://pastebin.com/7gM3R1Dn

[peoplearestrange]

Ok seriously people need to stop posting absolute shit and off topic/irrelevant crap.
This is an FNR thread, the same rules apply to ban requests as Ban Appeals. If you repeatedly break these rules and are repeatedly warned you will either be put on post approval or right out banned from the section.

[imblyings]

Despite Snerdly's best efforts to turn FNR against himself, deleting cloning records, delaying round-end as an antag, and disregarding your objectives as a ninja isn't bannable, antags have always had a license to do whatever they want unless it was team antag or an admin spawned antag with specific objectives.

It seems like basil have their fun in a way different to sybil which is totally fine but obviously things ok on sybil aren't ok on basil which makes problems here. I'd call deleting cloning records an IC issue on sybil but maybe basil players rely on them more than sybil, idk, due to how they need as much players active as possible to keep things feeling alive or something. I also understand that admin coverage on basil is spotty at best, which leads to antags being dicks delaying round-end. Admins were explicitly allowed in the rules a while ago to intervene when antags do shit like that, so pinging admins in the #supportbus channel on IRC is an option, as no one is obliged in any way to have their fun ruined by an antag who's crossing the line in terms of delaying the round etc.

edit about the borg stuff, you can make a fnr for that if you want but I'll be honest and say that closing that request or just having to investigate off what was said here and logs may take some considerable time before being resolved.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Despite Snerdly's best efforts to turn FNR against himself, deleting cloning records, delaying round-end as an antag, and disregarding your objectives as a ninja isn't bannable, antags have always had a license to do whatever they want unless it was team antag or an admin spawned antag with specific objectives.

It seems like basil have their fun in a way different to sybil which is totally fine but obviously things ok on sybil aren't ok on basil which makes problems here. I'd call deleting cloning records an IC issue on sybil but maybe basil players rely on them more than sybil, idk, due to how they need as much players active as possible to keep things feeling alive or something. I also understand that admin coverage on basil is spotty at best, which leads to antags being dicks delaying round-end. Admins were explicitly allowed in the rules a while ago to intervene when antags do shit like that, so pinging admins in the #supportbus channel on IRC is an option, as no one is obliged in any way to have their fun ruined by an antag who's crossing the line in terms of delaying the round etc.

edit about the borg stuff, you can make a fnr for that if you want but I'll be honest and say that closing that request or just having to investigate off what was said here and logs may take some considerable time before being resolved.

He deleted the cloning records before any of the conflict came up on the sole basis of 'Only antags need cloning records' (The person was a miner)

[imblyings]

Deleting cloning records isn't bannable though. Yes his reasoning is dumb but it's not something that's ever been actionable.