Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a cri

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Amnestik
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:06 am
Byond Username: Amnestik

Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a cri

Post by Amnestik » #146526

Your byond account: Amnestik
Your character name: Mauricio Best
Their character name: Zeela Takk
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Atticat
Server and time: Sybil, ~12:45pm UTC+13
Logs and/or screenshots:
Description of what happened:
Joined for my bi-monthly 20 minute game of SS13; gave Officer a go in spite of the high pop.

Random tries to steal my ID.

Code: Select all

Anda Lucia tries to remove Mauricio Best's Mauricio Best's ID Card (Security Officer).
Went to the brig to set her to arrest, and there she is in the airlocks.

Code: Select all

Zeela Takk asks, "Yes?"
Anda Lucia says, "Let me in"
[Security] Fiona Hope says, "Captain come to the HOP office"
You fire the hybrid taser!
The security barrier is hit by the electrode!
[Common] Jannister Mannister says, "Hey mining do you guys want a mech"
Zeela Takk says, "Wait"
You fire the hybrid taser!
Anda Lucia is hit by an electrode in the chest!
[Common] Taylor Garrison says, "We need more engines"
Zeela Takk says, "Dont taser her"
[Common] Sean Young says, "You too mime"
Anda Lucia stammers, "I c-came t-t-to s-see T-T-Ter-r-r-rr-r-r-ry"
Mauricio Best is trying to put handcuffs on Anda Lucia!
You fail to handcuff Anda Lucia!
Anda Lucia says, "Terry"
The stunbaton is now on.
Mauricio Best has stunned Anda Lucia with the stunbaton!
[Security] Golem states, "Done."
You put the stunbaton into the security backpack.
Zeela Takk says, "Stop"
[Common] Chip Hawking says, "Get out mime."
[Common] Sean Young says, "Je ne comprends pas"
[Common] Taylor Garrison asks, "What is with the flamethrower?"
[Security] Fiona Hope says, "Captain report in"
[Security] Mauricio Best says, "Idiot, I was arresting her for a different crime"
Mauricio Best says, "Idiot, I was arresting her for a different crime"
Anda Lucia says, "Im good"
[Common] Starka Stross says, "Self defense"
Terry Mcfall says, "I'm fine"
[Common] Damian Syder says, "Pierce, get in liune"
Mauricio Best has stunned Anda Lucia with the stunbaton!
Bones McGee says, "What type of self defense"
You put the stunbaton into the security backpack.
Zeela Takk fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!
Your armor softens the blow!
Mauricio Best is hit by an electrode in the chest!
Terry Mcfall says, "Would you"
[Common] Sean Young asks, "You wanna order somethuing?"
Terry Mcfall says, "Fucking sotp"
Zeela Takk is trying to put handcuffs on Mauricio Best!
Terry Mcfall shakes Anda Lucia trying to get her up!
[Common] Sean Young says, "Get in line"
[Common] Nasir Shupe asks, "Any chemists out there?"
[Common] Damian Syder says, "Before another crowd shows"
Terry Mcfall shakes Anda Lucia trying to get her up!
[Security] Frank N. Stine says, "What"
Mauricio Best says, "She tried to steal my ID you moron"
Bones McGee says, "I'll be back for you"
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's Mauricio Best's ID Card (Security Officer).
[Common] Sean Young says, "Sir"
*---------*
This is Zeela Takk!
She is wearing   a head of security's jumpsuit.
She is wearing   a head of security beret on her head.
She is wearing   an armored trenchoat.
She is carrying   a X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun on her armored trenchoat.
She has   a security satchel on her back.
She has   some black gloves on her hands.
She has   a security belt about her waist.
She is wearing   some jackboots on her feet.
She has   HUDSunglasses covering her eyes.
She has   the head of security's bowman headset on her ears.
She is wearing   PDA-Zeela Takk (Head of Security).
*---------*
[Security] Fiona Hope says, "GET TO HOP's OFFICE NOW"
Mauricio Best says, "My God"
[Common] Chip Hawking says, "Hey."
Zeela Takk says, "Use your words next time"
Zeela Takk says, "When your superior tells you to stop"
[Common] Chip Hawking asks, "Who ordered the gloves?"
[Common] Richard Aultman says, "I did"
Mauricio Best says, "I didn't need to"
[Common] Richard Aultman says, "Im right here"
Zeela Takk fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!
Your armor softens the blow!
Mauricio Best is hit by an electrode in the chest!
Zeela Takk says, "Well"
[Common] Argal Tal says, "RD dead in expirementor lab..."
Zeela Takk says, "You seem incapable of working with a team"
Zeela Takk says, "Im gonna have to demote you"
[Common] Argal Tal says, "Fag blew himself up"
Mauricio Best says, "Sure"
[Common] Chip Hawking says, "Deny."
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's security backpack.
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's helmet.
[Common] Automated Announcement System coldly states, "Lyle Ugleman has signed up as Assistant"
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's armor.
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's hybrid taser.
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's jackboots.
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's black gloves.
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's security jumpsuit.
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's PDA-Mauricio Best (Security Officer).
[Common] Richard Aultman says, "What the fuck"
[Common] Richard Aultman asks, "Why?"
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's security jumpsuit.
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's security bowman headset.
[Common] Sean Young says, "Spess reasons"
[Common] Chip Hawking says, "I need it stamped."
security newscaster beeps, "Breaking news from Station Announcements!"
Central Command Update



Lifesign Alert


Unknown biological entities have been detected near Research Colony VI, please stand-by.


Zeela Takk starts climbing onto the wooden table.
Zeela Takk climbs onto the wooden table.
[Common] Damian Syder says, "Dumb fucking mime"
[Common] Nasir Shupe says, "Toxins and shit"
Frank N. Stine says, "What's all this"
Zeela Takk says, "He defied orders and is acting quite insane"
Kevin Owens puts the hybrid taser into the backpack.
Zeela Takk says, "So im demoting him"
Zeela Takk tries to put Mauricio Best's ID Card (Unassigned) on Mauricio Best.
[Common] Fiona Hope says, "Knock it off"
Zeela Takk tries to remove Mauricio Best's handcuffs.
[Common] Damian Syder says, "THANKS"
*---------*
This is Zeela Takk!
She is wearing   a head of security's jumpsuit.
She is wearing   a head of security beret on her head.
She is wearing   an armored trenchoat.
She is carrying   a X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun on her armored trenchoat.
She has   a security satchel on her back.
She has   some black gloves on her hands.
She has   a security belt about her waist.
She is wearing   some jackboots on her feet.
She has   HUDSunglasses covering her eyes.
She has   the head of security's bowman headset on her ears.
She is wearing   PDA-Zeela Takk (Head of Security).
*---------*
I was interfered with trying to arrest her twice, maybe three times.

HoS then tases me out of the blue, and brigs me for trying to arrest. I run out of the cell, because at this point we've gotten a bit silly. The man playing her takes this as an reason to demote me.

His justification was "disobeying orders," or something. Didn't see his text because I was busy arresting the criminal. Probably wouldn't have stopped me though, the apparent "orders" being issued were being done so from a place of ignorance and the player should've just given the officer the benefit of the doubt instead of oddly protecting the criminal and punishing the officer.

Why they should be banned:
Demoting your officers for arresting criminals is pretty bizarre. Not sure of Atticat's reasons for protecting the Anda Lucia character, as there didn't seem to be any IC. Incidentally Anda got banned for metafriending last month it seems.
Last edited by Amnestik on Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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NikNakFlak
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:08 pm
Byond Username: NikNakflak

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - round in progress

Post by NikNakFlak » #146533

In the future, it's 1000 times easier for admins if you JUST ADMINHELP DURING THE ROUND. You did this and said you'd try talking to the captain and never even attempted to do a follow adminPM. Taking every little thing to ban requests when the situation can be handled in the round where the attack logs are more cut, clear, and dry with all available parties to be questioned is a lot more helpful than jumping straight to the ban request forum without even bothering to try to resolve it in game.
Amnestik
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:06 am
Byond Username: Amnestik

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - round in progress

Post by Amnestik » #146552

I had to go at 1pm.
User avatar
Atticat
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:04 pm
Byond Username: Atticat

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Atticat » #146564

I didn't witness Anda Lucia taking Maricio's ID, but you can be sure I would have granted him leeway if he had told me. Unfortunately, I walked into brig where Amnestik was stunning Lucia over and over in the brig lobby, even though she was cuffed and detained by Terry Mcfall. I told Amnestik to stop multiple times and he refused. He then chased Lucia out of the brig (while Terry was trying to take here away from Maricio) and began to stun her some more. I arrested him to deploy a timeout, but Marico began insulting me, tried to escape the brig, and then said he didn't tell me why he was torturing Lucia because "he didn't need to".

Terry Mcfall had Lucia under arrest and also told Marico to stop; at no point did I grant her amnesty or raise issue with her sentencing. Maricio was acting kind of insane and didn't seem reliable enough to trust based on his answers so I demoted him.
Amnestik
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:06 am
Byond Username: Amnestik

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Amnestik » #146604

Atticat wrote:I didn't witness Anda Lucia taking Maricio's ID, but you can be sure I would have granted him leeway if he had told me.
Uh, I did. It's in the logs. I'm pretty sure I said it twice, once after she was dragged away when I was trying to arrest her, and then again after you brigged me for arresting her.
Atticat wrote:IUnfortunately, I walked into brig where Amnestik was stunning Lucia over and over in the brig lobby, even though she was cuffed and detained by Terry Mcfall.
Um... no. If Ana-Lucia was already in cuffs then I wouldn't have been attempting to arrest her. You were already in the brig and inviting her in, if I remember correctly. It'll be in the logs, anyway.

I told Amnestik to stop multiple times and he refused. He then chased Lucia out of the brig (while Terry was trying to take here away from Maricio) and began to stun her some more. I arrested him to deploy a timeout,
Atticat wrote:but Marico began insulting me, tried to escape the brig
nope

lol
Atticat wrote:torturing Lucia
ahahahaha, if only
Atticat wrote:he didn't tell me why he was torturing Lucia because "he didn't need to".
I don't need to clear every arrest with the HoS before making it, nor is it practical or reasonable to expect that I do. However, had I been able to apprehend her I would've then had the opportunity to explain what she had done.
Atticat wrote:Terry Mcfall had Lucia under arrest
No, he didn't.
Atticat wrote:and also told Marico to stop;
Yeah, I think he did. Not sure why, he kept trying to remove her from the brig so he seemed to be assuming I was attempting to arrest her for trespass, which I explained to him in no uncertain terms wasn't the case. It was shortly after this that I was assaulted by the HoS though.
Atticat wrote:at no point did I grant her amnesty or raise issue with her sentencing.
Everything you did was doing this.
Atticat wrote:Maricio was acting kind of insane
...what? Attempting to arrest a character for trying to swipe your ID as security looks insane to you? Are you sure you're okay mentally?
Atticat wrote:and didn't seem reliable enough to trust based on his answers so I demoted him.
Uhh... it seemed you'd already made up your mind about my "reliability" when you attacked me and stuck me in a brig cell for trying to arrest someone. After you make a show of doing something like that, there's no much to do to come back from it, so I was really at a loss for what I could say to make you act like a rational HoS who wasn't making me wonder if security antags were back on. I don't think you asked me any questons? But I can't really remember and can be bothered looking at the logs right now, but I'm pretty sure again all I said was that I didn't have to run every arrest by you (although I didn't spell it out in such specific terms because it's babyland frolics and why waste the mental effort wording it to someone who had clearly already made up their mind anyway) and I might've reiterated pointlessly that I was arresting her for stealing my ID. I probably did do the latter, it seems like the kind of redundancy I'd feel the need to prove myself enough to engage in.
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smittn
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:56 am
Byond Username: Smittn

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by smittn » #146620

Funny how I've ended up in quite a few of the last couple of ban requests.

So without digging into the logs and going from memory this is how I remember it:

Anda tries to get into the brig to see me to accuse me of something crazy like she usually does. I see mauricio try to tase her and assume its just because she's entering the brig. I drag her out and tell him to knock it off, so does the HoS. So we're standing still outside of the brig talking and he runs out and stuns her with his stun baton as soon as he gets back up. I pick Anda up and Zeela tasers him, and then cuffs him.

Now, reading those and putting this all together: Anda tried to lift his ID to talk with me as she's previously tried to rendezvous in interrogation to interrogate me about weird off the wall shit. When she went to the brig I just assumed she wanted to get in and I had not known about the ID theft. I'm not sure if he never reported it over :s or if he did I missed it. Check the logs, thats on you for a ban request. So when he attacked Anda multiple times he never explained himself which would have made things so much clearer. This was why he was arrested, and a personal plea to you just use your words next time. They are really a security officers best friend. What happened next I was away from so please reference the logs Amnestik about the spat with zeela. He was demoted which I saw not soon after. She stripped him of everything and gave him an "unassigned" ID.

So I do think Zeela stepped over the line, a lot of shitty people play power roles and let that get to their heads and as a player I find this really frustrating. He should have spoken up but a demotion over something small like this was out of bounds. But thats just my opinion.
icecreamcohn
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 4:49 am
Byond Username: IceCreamCohn

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by icecreamcohn » #146655

I saw some of this as a lawyer that round. The HoS had em cuffed and said they are acting crazy and then stripped them naked while cuffed. Then shipped them out of the brig with an unassigned ID and nothing else.

I think that is little out of line.
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Lumbermancer
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
Byond Username: Lumbermancer

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Lumbermancer » #146662

Demoting your officers for arresting criminals is pretty bizarre.
Ignoring everything else for now, you were not demoted for arresting criminals, but failure to follow direct orders of your superior. If HoS can't rely on his officers, sec falls apart. You are not The Owl of The Detective, you need to follow HoS's lead.

If you think HoS is wrong, announce it on Sec channel so everyone including the Captain can hear. Unless you are dealing with tatortot or a murderer, you shouldn't go behind his back.
Amnestik
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:06 am
Byond Username: Amnestik

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Amnestik » #146779

Had I seen the 'order', (didn't through a combination of bad eyesight and preoccupation getting Anda before she was allowed to run away), I wouldn't have stopped because it would've allowed her to run, perhaps never to be seen again. The latter has happened multiple times in my experience.

However, had I ever managed to secure Anda it would've given me the opportunity to repeat for the second time I was arresting her for attempted ID theft.

Oh, and Atticat was there at the time so I wasn't going behind his back.
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capi duffman
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:28 am
Byond Username: Capi duffman

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by capi duffman » #146828

You're to obey the HOS, not to act on your own based on your experiences.
All in all, the demotion is fair, since you were ignoring orders, and the heads are entitled to demote crewmembers for that kind of behaviour. That goes double for security, since if your bosses say some perp is to go, you let it go.
Amnestik
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:06 am
Byond Username: Amnestik

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Amnestik » #147182

I'd like to request an admin resolve this if that's okay. Thanks.
Malkevin

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Malkevin » #147266

smittn wrote: Now, reading those and putting this all together: Anda tried to lift his ID to talk with me as she's previously tried to rendezvous in interrogation to interrogate me about weird off the wall shit. When she went to the brig I just assumed she wanted to get in and I had not known about the ID theft. I'm not sure if he never reported it over :s or if he did I missed it. Check the logs, thats on you for a ban request. So when he attacked Anda multiple times he never explained himself which would have made things so much clearer. This was why he was arrested, and a personal plea to you just use your words next time. They are really a security officers best friend. What happened next I was away from so please reference the logs Amnestik about the spat with zeela. He was demoted which I saw not soon after. She stripped him of everything and gave him an "unassigned" ID.
Never ever interfere with another sec officer's arrest.
It is about the biggest faux pas you can commit as security.

Its ironic both of you are telling the OP to "use their words" when you both started interfering before the the perp was secured.
Its AFTER the perp is cuffed and secured you can start clarifying things, don't just make blind assumptions about things.

Otherwise you end up with avoidable shit like this.
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smittn
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:56 am
Byond Username: Smittn

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by smittn » #147415

Thats true, its frustrating but all he had to do was shout SHE STOLE MY ID at any time during that whole mess and none of this would have happened. I think its also important to know that Anda was standing next to me (another officer) and we were talking while this was happening and she was being very "compliant" in the sense of her coming to the brig voluntarily and not running around.
Malkevin

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Malkevin » #147418

And all you had to do was wait the five seconds for the cuffs to get slapped on so you can all concentrate on the chat pane instead of the game screen, otherwise you'll miss messages.

Case in point:
[Security] Mauricio Best says, "Idiot, I was arresting her for a different crime"
Mauricio Best says, "Idiot, I was arresting her for a different crime"

Which both of you missed because your heads were so far up your own cocksure asses you didn't see it.
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Shaps-cloud
Code Maintainer
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:25 am
Byond Username: Shaps

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Shaps-cloud » #147474

I think we can just chalk this up to a lack of communication that happened to spiral out of control, nothing really seems to be actionable here outside of saying "be more careful" so I think that's all there is to say
P.S. Shoot Dr. Allen on sight and dissolve his body in acid. Don't burn it.
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smittn
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:56 am
Byond Username: Smittn

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by smittn » #147825

Malkevin wrote:And all you had to do was wait the five seconds for the cuffs to get slapped on so you can all concentrate on the chat pane instead of the game screen, otherwise you'll miss messages.

Case in point:
[Security] Mauricio Best says, "Idiot, I was arresting her for a different crime"
Mauricio Best says, "Idiot, I was arresting her for a different crime"

Which both of you missed because your heads were so far up your own cocksure asses you didn't see it.
that sounds post incident, stop being so angsty about things

and this is about zeela jumping straight to demotion mode
Malkevin

Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by Malkevin » #147830

Read the fucking logs, retard, it's super obvious when in the incident that was said
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NikNakFlak
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Re: Zeela Takk/Atticat - demoting an officer for arresting a

Post by NikNakFlak » #147832

We are done here tbh
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