Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

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coiax
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Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby coiax » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:40 am #159766

Your byond account: coiax
Your character name: Braxton Cherry
Their character name: Drake King
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): AquaticaPossum
Server and time: Sybil, ~11:00 UTC+1
Logs and/or screenshots: http://pastebin.com/ZTvxuTv5 starting at line 181
Description of what happened: I find a facehugger very early on while mining, bring it back to Xenobiology in a welded locker, also have dropped off small amounts of all the basic minerals. Since no one is doing R&D, I start doing it, need the practice laser gun and plasma sheet to get the levels. Go to the testing lab, ask the scientist to be let in, he doesn't respond, ask AI, AI is busy with some sort of mass driver scare. So I just shoot a window in, feeling that it's just a window, can fix it later, and I want to get this R&D stuff started. The scientist shouts at me to stop, the AI then opens the door, and he then rushes at me, beating at me constantly with a wrench. I ask him to stop, I inform the AI, he is nearly dropping me into crit. I then assume he's trying to kill me, heal up and knock him out with the pickaxe. I then heal him up fully with first aid, tie him to a chair and grab the stuff I need. He screams bloody murder to the AI, getting it to bolt the door because I'm "holding him hostage". I lose even more patience, shoot the window fully down, and go resume doing R&D. He then later charges in with a stunprod, stuns me, drags me to Toxins, and starts stripping me, including taking my headset. He then takes me to the Research Mass Driver, I assume the worst and shout for help when we pass the intercom. The janiborg takes me away, uncuffs me, takes me back to my stuff. While I am still getting dressed, not even headsetted up, he comes back, stuns me again, cuffs me, strips me fully, and drags me into maint. He then stabs me in the eyes with the screwdriver until I am blind, and locks me in a small room in maint with all objects bar a stool removed. This whole process has taken at least 5 to 10 minutes, longer than his mild inconvinence when I tied him up so he'd stop attacking me. I beat myself into crit with the stool and succumb, hoping vaguely that someone will check my suit sensors. I adminhelp this, but apparently I "shouldn't have broken in", ergo he is allowed to do these things.


Why they should be banned: There is a line between appropriate response that was crossed here. I broke a window in Research and stunned him to stop him beating me, and in response I am left blinded and locked in a room with no communication. He talks repeatedly about how I was "greytiding" despite trying to do actual R&D for the station, which is in a very low population, and which I did as a miner in the previous shift, and no scientists screamed bloody murder about that.



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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:15 pm #159769

I'm going to keep this concise.

  • You asked to be let in once while I was probing canisters(Each hit produces 4 lines of text). Clearly asking again or trying to get my attention in a way that doesn't involve breaking my window was out of the question, so you decided to greytide your way in.
  • At this point I reported you under rule 1, and was given admin permission to, quote "break a limb for every window you broke"
  • Every single action I took that round against you has been admin sanctioned or admin approved, from me taking you to leaving you in a room.

I adminhelp this, but apparently I "shouldn't have broken in", ergo he is allowed to do these things.


What reaction did you expect from me when you randomly tried to break into my lab?

You brought this on yourself by greytiding, and going by the fact I requested permission for every action I took against you, this belongs in admin complaints if anything.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Shaps-cloud » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:36 pm #159781

What admin approved of that? There's a difference between trying to get someone unwelcome out of your department via words first and escalating to violence later if needed, and stuncuffing someone to shoot them out of the mass driver for breaking one window and doing a job no one else is doing. Repeatedly going out of your way to stuncuff and strip them when they're quietly doing research with the minerals they gathered sounds awful
P.S. Shoot Dr. Allen on sight and dissolve his body in acid. Don't burn it.

Image

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Thunder11 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:04 pm #159784

I can't remember who the limb for every window thing was from, and the round isn't showing up on the server log just now, but I do recall having to specifically tell you not to abandon him in your improvised permabrig in maint.
ImageImage
Spoiler:
IcePacks wrote:
MrFoster wrote:Back in my day, we didn't complain about lag! We used it to queue attacks!

That's thinking on your feet, soldier!

Quality Paprika from #coderbus wrote:[11:35.52] <paprika> holy crap so yeah i don't care about your opinion at all

oranges wrote:

Excuse me? Thats for sensible and calm rational debate, not for senseless whining.

Resident Catmin, please direct catposting to: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5578

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:22 pm #159793

Shaps wrote:and stuncuffing someone to shoot them out of the mass driver for breaking one window and doing a job no one else is doing.


That's a flat out lie, I took him into maint adjacent to Toxins to go into the evac area via maintenance, and that's when the borg came and took him. My original intent had been to just dump him in the locker room, him escaping and breaking into Science yet again prompted my harsher response.

Shaps wrote:Repeatedly going out of your way to stuncuff and strip them when they're quietly doing research


He wasn't 'quietly during research' and he didn't attempt to engage with me in any way. All I saw from my perspective was a miner hitting my window with a kinetic shotgun while I was filtering a mix in one of the canisters.

Thunder11 wrote:but I do recall having to specifically tell you not to abandon him in your improvised permabrig in maint.


I wasn't told to let him out, I was questioned on this action and explained my reasoning.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Shaps-cloud » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:36 pm #159795

In what world is stuncuff stripping someone and throwing them in a locked room with no way out in any way a consummate punishment for breaking a window? You're allowed to defend your workplace against shitters and threats to yourself, but trying to bash in a miners head and then going back and trying to permanently remove them by the round by locking them in maint without an ID or a headset when they hadn't started any aggression is awful. What reason did you have for going back and abducting them after they had already healed you up and left you alone?
P.S. Shoot Dr. Allen on sight and dissolve his body in acid. Don't burn it.

Image

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:46 pm #159802

Shaps wrote:In what world is stuncuff stripping someone and throwing them in a locked room with no way out in any way a consummate punishment for breaking a window?


Greytiding is not 'breaking a window'. I reported him for that, and was told to deal with him ICly. To quote the rules:
- Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans.


Shaps wrote:You're allowed to defend your workplace against shitters and threats to yourself

Evidently not, as you're putting me under double jeopardy by retroactively condemning actions that were approved by admins.

Shaps wrote:, but trying to bash in a miners head and then going back and trying to permanently remove them by the round by locking them in maint without an ID or a headset when they hadn't started any aggression is awful.


So greytiding is not aggression? I'm just supposed to magically guess that he is both incapable of using doors or asking to be let in and 'quietly doing research'?

Shaps wrote:What reason did you have for going back and abducting them after they had already healed you up and left you alone?


I do believe I just said that, he broke into Toxins a second time.


Whether or not he was actually 'doing research' is not something that is for me to guess. He chose to continue greytiding and act as if his presence in science is given and everyone should respect and leave him alone because he's doing such great work. He did not communicate any of this, and the closest he came to explaining why he was even in science was 'I wanted the plasma and gun'. What he did do is leave me in the test lab, buckle cuffed as he continued to break more shit around the lab because AI refused to let him out.

It's easy for him to say 'Oh, I was just doing peaceful research when big bad Aquatica came and stuffed me in a room'. What really happened was him acting out of line several times, breaking server rules, and magically expecting everyone to just assume that this miner in a hardsuit breaking their window with a shotgun is actually there to do R&D.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Zilenan91 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:50 pm #159804

>stuncuffing and fullstripping a guy in maint
>for a fucking window

You know what rule 1 is right? Don't be a dick? Because you've managed to just completely shit on a guy for no reason while he was doing something that had absolutely no bearing or effect on you whatsoever. It's peanut gallery by me but this is kinda messed up

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:51 pm #159805

Zilenan91 wrote:>stuncuffing and fullstripping a guy in maint
>for a fucking window

You know what rule 1 is right? Don't be a dick? Because you've managed to just completely shit on a guy for no reason while he was doing something that had absolutely no bearing or effect on you whatsoever.


I can tell by your well informed response that you totally read this thread, I clearly did all this because he broke a window.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Shaps-cloud » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:56 pm #159806

Are you talking about toxins or the testing lab, because toxins doesn't have the practice gun or the plasma sheets. Also what admin approved it?

Edit: To clarify, you won't be facing a ban for this since you were given permission by an admin, but I think we should reevaluate the reasons that these things were signed off on, because breaking a window or two and using self defense against someone attacking them (with healing after) shouldn't be leading to this kind of retribution
Last edited by Shaps-cloud on Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
P.S. Shoot Dr. Allen on sight and dissolve his body in acid. Don't burn it.

Image

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Zilenan91 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:59 pm #159807

Says in the OP the miner was getting into the testing lab

So I just shoot a window in, feeling that it's just a window, can fix it later, and I want to get this R&D stuff started.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:00 pm #159809

Shaps wrote:Are you talking about toxins or the testing lab, because toxins doesn't have the practice gun or the plasma sheets. Also what admin approved it?


I was in the testing lab when he attempted to break in, he later also broke into toxins which is where I stunprodded him.
Shaps wrote:Also what admin approved it?



I don't remember names, you'll have to pull their names from the log. It's worth noting Coiax deliberately omitted the admin's response from his logs.

Zilenan91 wrote:Say in the OP the miner was getting into the testing lab



And that's his narrative of the events. According to this narrative, I also apparently tried to launch him into space, and I attacked him knowing he was only there to do research.

Please read the logs, though be advised a lot has been omitted towards the end.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby coiax » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:28 pm #159824

Aquatica wrote:...

Please read the logs, though be advised a lot has been omitted towards the end.

Excuse me? This log has not been edited, if that's your implication, which if it is I find highly insulting.

Aquatica wrote:
Shaps wrote:What reason did you have for going back and abducting them after they had already healed you up and left you alone?


I do believe I just said that, he broke into Toxins a second time.

If we'll refer to line 461, I was doing research in R&D and he charges into the room and stuns me, and then drags me to Toxins and starts stripping me.

A few hours have passed, and I'm mostly concerned about the free pass that this guy was given by badmins.

Here is a hypothetical construct: Zoey Webb "breaks" into R&D by getting the AI to open the door. I beat her with a wrench, while she asks me to stop. She retaliates in self defence, which makes me feel I have justification to later go up to her, stun her, and leave her in maint. Please point out the differences between this and that.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:45 pm #159825

coiax wrote:Here is a hypothetical construct: Zoey Webb "breaks" into R&D by getting the AI to open the door. I beat her with a wrench, while she asks me to stop. She retaliates in self defence, which makes me feel I have justification to later go up to her, stun her, and leave her in maint. Please point out the differences between this and that.


Asking an Asimov to be let in somewhere you're not allowed to be in still breaking an entry. But I digress, the reason you ended up like you did was because you were greytiding and breaking shit around science. Since you claim this was self defense, let me give you another hypothetical.

An intruder breaks into your home, he doesn't attack you, but you attack him. He then attacks you in self defense. Do you see the issue with your logic here? You are the instigator here, my reaction to your actions is what we would call self defense and not the other way around.

coiax wrote:which makes me feel I have justification to later go up to her, stun her, and leave her in maint. Please point out the differences between this and that


For all intents and purposes an admin should have dealt with you the minute you tried to break into the test lab. I did report you, and was told to deal with your greytiding IC, which I did with full admin backing.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby coiax » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:28 pm #159833

Aquatica wrote:
coiax wrote:Here is a hypothetical construct: Zoey Webb "breaks" into R&D by getting the AI to open the door. I beat her with a wrench, while she asks me to stop. She retaliates in self defence, which makes me feel I have justification to later go up to her, stun her, and leave her in maint. Please point out the differences between this and that.


Asking an Asimov to be let in somewhere you're not allowed to be in still breaking an entry. But I digress, the reason you ended up like you did was because you were greytiding and breaking shit around science. Since you claim this was self defense, let me give you another hypothetical.

An intruder breaks into your home, he doesn't attack you, but you attack him. He then attacks you in self defense. Do you see the issue with your logic here? You are the instigator here, my reaction to your actions is what we would call self defense and not the other way around.

coiax wrote:which makes me feel I have justification to later go up to her, stun her, and leave her in maint. Please point out the differences between this and that


For all intents and purposes an admin should have dealt with you the minute you tried to break into the test lab. I did report you, and was told to deal with your greytiding IC, which I did with full admin backing.


You're kidding me, right? 1) You think that someone breaking into a place is adminhelpable, and 2) you're comparing a real world break in to the cartoony world of /tg/? I mean, even in that circumstance, you later go up to the squatter in your home, tase him, blind him, and leave him in a locked room.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:47 pm #159835

coiax wrote:You're kidding me, right? 1) You think that someone breaking into a place is adminhelpable,


Greytiding /is/ reportable and is explicitly frowned upon, I suggest you both the rules and precedents of this server. Otherwise admins would have never given me the green light as they did.

coiax wrote: and 2) you're comparing a real world break in to the cartoony world of /tg/?



It showed how broken your logic is, an instigator cannot act in self defense.


coiax wrote:
you later go up to the squatter in your home, tase him, blind him, and leave him in a locked room.



This scenario would have been equivalent had you been in the test lab/toxins to begin with. But you shot your way in.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby sirnat » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:53 pm #159850

Minor amounts of greytide like one or two windows is not ahelpable especially in this situation.

You also had no right to strip the miner of anything. You only had right to stun, cuff, and drag outside.

The reason I'm posting is the guy is trying to do what I used to and lawyer the hell out of a ban, (Which sadly he won't retrieve BC he says he was given permission but I doubt an admin gave him permission to do what he did to that extent.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:19 pm #159856

sirnat wrote:Minor amounts of greytide like one or two windows is not ahelpable especially in this situation.

>minor amount
Nice to see another person who didn't read the logs.

sirnat wrote:You also had no right to strip the miner of anything. You only had right to stun, cuff, and drag outside.


And how exactly do you determine what I have a right to do? How people treated your greytiding in the past? Is it anything other than personal opinion or anecdotal evidence? I did what I was given permission to do to counteract a greytider.


sirnat wrote:The reason I'm posting is the guy is trying to do what I used to

To say you're a serial greytider would be an understatement, so I'm not sure if you're referring to Coiax or myself here. From my experience with you, you constantly bait others into reacting and respond when they do. I can't even count the amount of times I have seen you breaking into the engine room on round start and trying to steal anything that isn't bolted to the floor. I'm not sure where you think you can draw a parallel here when I haven't even approached Coiax before he tried to break into my lab.



sirnat wrote: and lawyer the hell out of a ban

Everything I did was sanctioned. Greytiding as long as you have, it seems like you lost touch with how destructive and annoying it can be on the receiving end.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby sirnat » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:37 pm #159859

The miner didn't interupt your work, he broke into testing lab for rnd items, why did you even mess with him in the first place?

Do paste the logs of his major amount of tide that shows he deserved to be stripped, blinded, and locked in a room. You do know you can't kill/crit someone for breaking in w/o at least putting them somewhere accessible by medbay?

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:44 pm #159862

sirnat wrote:The miner didn't interupt your work, he broke into testing lab for rnd items, why did you even mess with him in the first place?


Why mess with the greytider breaking shit in your workspace? Do you want a prize for acting like a dick?
sirnat wrote:You do know you can't kill/crit someone for breaking in w/o at least putting them somewhere accessible by medbay?


I did neither. Thank you once again for showing everyone you didn't bother checking the details before posting.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby TheNightingale » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:04 pm #159864

Legal peanutposting inside the spoiler tag:

Spoiler:
Law time. From a legal perspective, it stopped being self-defence when you intentionally came back with a stunprod, stun and take his headset, and drag him to the mass driver. It's only self-defence as long as he's literally attacking or about to attack you right there and then. Going back with a stunprod (twice) means it's no longer self-defence, but aggravated assault, and after you cuffed him and put him in maintenance, stabbing his eyes out with a screwdriver can't be claimed as lawful given that he posed no threat whilst restrained.

* The Miner smashes the window to get into the Testing Lab. This is... acceptable per our rules.
* The Scientist attacks the Miner for breaking in. This is... also acceptable, because escalation.
* After the Scientist causes severe damage to the Miner, the Miner retaliates and wins. This is... more escalation.
* The Miner deescalates the conflict by, after restraining the Scientist, healing them.
* The Scientist gets freed. The conflict has ended, and there's nothing to escalate.
* The Scientist comes back with a stunprod and stuncuffs the Miner, taking their headset and moving them to the mass driver. This is... either kidnap or attempted murder.
* The Miner is freed. The conflict has ended again, and there's nothing to escalate. The Scientist has had their vengeance already by kidnapping the Miner.
* The Scientist comes back again and stuncuffs the Miner, taking them into an inescapable maintenance room. This is... kidnapping.
* The Scientist stabs the Miner in the eyes until they are blinded. This is... grievous bodily harm with intent.
Last edited by TheNightingale on Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby sirnat » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:14 pm #159866

Aquatica wrote:
sirnat wrote:The miner didn't interupt your work, he broke into testing lab for rnd items, why did you even mess with him in the first place?


Why mess with the greytider breaking shit in your workspace? Do you want a prize for acting like a dick?
sirnat wrote:You do know you can't kill/crit someone for breaking in w/o at least putting them somewhere accessible by medbay?


I did neither. Thank you once again for showing everyone you didn't bother checking the details before posting.


"I did neither", oh the good ol, "Dindu nuffin".

You basically took him out of the round by blinding him and stuffing him in maint without any radio to ask for help and without his ID to get out of the maint tunnels, you're at fault for him having to basically kill himself to crit hoping someone'd see his suit sensors to come retrieve him.

Edit: Going to stop posting now before I possibly break the fnr rules by posting more but I believe what I brought up should help admins make a decision hopefully.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:23 pm #159870

TheNightingale wrote:Law time. From a legal perspective, it stopped being self-defence when you intentionally came back with a stunprod, stun and take his headset, and drag him to the mass driver.


Flat out lie, once again.

TheNightingale wrote:It's only self-defence as long as he's literally attacking or about to attack you right there and then. Going back with a stunprod (twice) means it's no longer self-defence,


Except the stunprodding began when he broke in a second time while I was preparing my burn mix.

TheNightingale wrote:but aggravated assault


Except it wasn't in a public space, he was breaking and entering into various sections of science.

TheNightingale wrote:and after you cuffed him and put him in maintenance, stabbing his eyes out with a screwdriver can't be claimed as lawful given that he posed no threat whilst restrained.

And that's his admin sanctioned punishment for greytiding.


* The Miner smashes the window to get into the Testing Lab. This is... acceptable per our rules.


Had it been acceptable, I would not have received a greenlight to act against him. This falls under rule 1, and there's a precedent that directly addresses this sort of behavior;


- Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans.


and

- You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety.
Last edited by Aquatica on Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Aquatica » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:30 pm #159872

sirnat wrote:"I did neither", oh the good ol, "Dindu nuffin".


Are you actually retarded? I didn't kill him and I didn't put him in crit, hence, I did neither of the things you accused me of doing.

sirnat wrote:You basically took him out of the round by blinding him and stuffing him in maint without any radio to ask for help and without his ID to get out of the maint tunnels, you're at fault for him having to basically kill himself to crit hoping someone'd see his suit sensors to come retrieve him.


I shouldn't expect anything less from someone who spends 90% of his rounds disrupting other people's jobs and stealing anything he can find. There's a simple solution to avoid being treated like that. See that thing over there? It's called a 'door'. No, no, Sirnat, don't hack the door. See the person behind it? I'm pretty sure that if you ask nicely and explain your intentions, he can open that door for you and save you the trouble of vandalizing his workspace! It really is that simple, no need to take down windows, no need to hack doors, just common courtesy.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby oranges » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:04 pm #159883

blindmuting someone and locking them in a permabrig is worse than death, you should have just killed them and thrown them out into the hall.

Obviously you can't be banned because an admin said you were in the clear, but next time try a more proportional response.

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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Boredone » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:05 pm #159884

So, as someone who doesn't know much rule wise, checking the log he posted shows a few thing.
1: In the initial fight, the only reason you didn't take him to crit before he healed himself was cause he had armor (22 Hits with a wrench=110 Brute). And that was BEFORE he started fighting back.
2: After he managed to take you down, and restrained you (You literally almost took him to crit) and HEALED you, you ordered the AI to bolt him down and claimed he was kidnapping you. He did admitedly take your ID as well though there, though he did throw it (presumably to you).
3: When you stabbed his eyes out, his logs show you did atleast knock him out if not put him in crit, though admitedly they also don't show him apparently whacking himself with a stool like he claimed he did to suicide, but show him talking in deadchat and adminhelping strangely.

Personally, you really overreacted. And leaving him stranded in maint with no way to call for help was a dick move, assuming the story is true.
But the log he posted is missing his claimed whacking himself with stool so he could die, theres a pretty good chance you made him bleed, so he might of bled out? But that does mean it might not be reliable.
If the eye stabbing DID make him bleed though, he WOULD of died even if he hadn't supposedly whacked himself, as he had no way to get help, and no way to stop the bleeding. Woulda been a slow death too unless you left him really injured, which the fact you healed him up seems unlikely. Though the fact you even choose too (Based on the log he gave) suggests you ATLEAST put him in crit.

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coiax
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Byond Username: Coiax

Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby coiax » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:15 pm #159888

Aquatica wrote:
TheNightingale wrote:Law time. From a legal perspective, it stopped being self-defence when you intentionally came back with a stunprod, stun and take his headset, and drag him to the mass driver.


Flat out lie, once again.

TheNightingale wrote:It's only self-defence as long as he's literally attacking or about to attack you right there and then. Going back with a stunprod (twice) means it's no longer self-defence,


Except the stunprodding began when he broke in a second time while I was preparing my burn mix.

TheNightingale wrote:but aggravated assault


Except it wasn't in a public space, he was breaking and entering into various sections of science.

TheNightingale wrote:and after you cuffed him and put him in maintenance, stabbing his eyes out with a screwdriver can't be claimed as lawful given that he posed no threat whilst restrained.

And that's his admin sanctioned punishment for greytiding.


* The Miner smashes the window to get into the Testing Lab. This is... acceptable per our rules.


Had it been acceptable, I would not have received a greenlight to act against him. This falls under rule 1, and there's a precedent that directly addresses this sort of behavior;


- Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans.


and

- You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety.


So, I realise this is my word against his, but I only broke into the testing lab once, and then he assaulted me in R&D while I was researching. Given how this issue seems to be resolved because an admin signed off on it, I will not quibble.

Boredone wrote:So, as someone who doesn't know much rule wise, checking the log he posted shows a few thing.
1: In the initial fight, the only reason you didn't take him to crit before he healed himself was cause he had armor (22 Hits with a wrench=110 Brute). And that was BEFORE he started fighting back.
2: After he managed to take you down, and restrained you (You literally almost took him to crit) and HEALED you, you ordered the AI to bolt him down and claimed he was kidnapping you. He did admitedly take your ID as well though there, though he did throw it (presumably to you).
3: When you stabbed his eyes out, his logs show you did atleast knock him out if not put him in crit, though admitedly they also don't show him apparently whacking himself with a stool like he claimed he did to suicide, but show him talking in deadchat and adminhelping strangely.

Personally, you really overreacted. And leaving him stranded in maint with no way to call for help was a dick move, assuming the story is true.
But the log he posted is missing his claimed whacking himself with stool so he could die, theres a pretty good chance you made him bleed, so he might of bled out? But that does mean it might not be reliable.
If the eye stabbing DID make him bleed though, he WOULD of died even if he hadn't supposedly whacked himself, as he had no way to get help, and no way to stop the bleeding. Woulda been a slow death too unless you left him really injured, which the fact you healed him up seems unlikely. Though the fact you even choose too (Based on the log he gave) suggests you ATLEAST put him in crit.


The collapsing during the eye stabbing was me emoting *collapse in an attempt to make him stop. And the stool whacking didn't give me any message, possibly because there is no message for blind people.
Aquatica wrote:
sirnat wrote:"I did neither", oh the good ol, "Dindu nuffin".


Are you actually retarded? I didn't kill him and I didn't put him in crit, hence, I did neither of the things you accused me of doing.

sirnat wrote:You basically took him out of the round by blinding him and stuffing him in maint without any radio to ask for help and without his ID to get out of the maint tunnels, you're at fault for him having to basically kill himself to crit hoping someone'd see his suit sensors to come retrieve him.


I shouldn't expect anything less from someone who spends 90% of his rounds disrupting other people's jobs and stealing anything he can find. There's a simple solution to avoid being treated like that. See that thing over there? It's called a 'door'. No, no, Sirnat, don't hack the door. See the person behind it? I'm pretty sure that if you ask nicely and explain your intentions, he can open that door for you and save you the trouble of vandalizing his workspace! It really is that simple, no need to take down windows, no need to hack doors, just common courtesy.


...

Have you mistaken me for someone else? Not that this response is justifiable really against even a serialtider, but I am confused by your insistence that I'm some sort of greytide nightmare.

Your insistence that the admins saying "yeah you can retaliate" gives you a green ticket to do whatever is troubling. But, w/e, tis done.

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Wyzack
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Wyzack » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:37 pm #159901

There is way too much peanutposting in this thread, forummods pls enforce da rurus
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!

Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.

EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3
certified good poster

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Malkevin
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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby Malkevin » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:54 pm #163051

Zilenan91 wrote:>stuncuffing and fullstripping a guy in maint
>for a fucking window

You know what rule 1 is right? Don't be a dick? Because you've managed to just completely shit on a guy for no reason while he was doing something that had absolutely no bearing or effect on you whatsoever. It's peanut gallery by me but this is kinda messed up

Maybe the guy shouldn't trespass into people's departments then blast open windows with a gun?
Maybe the guy shouldn't pick the brain of the guy whose department it is when that guy tries to rightfully throw him out?

Maybe the guy should learn to be more patient and learn to knock on windows?


TheNightingale wrote:Legal peanutposting inside the spoiler tag:

Spoiler:
Law time. From a legal perspective, it stopped being self-defence when you intentionally came back with a stunprod, stun and take his headset, and drag him to the mass driver. It's only self-defence as long as he's literally attacking or about to attack you right there and then. Going back with a stunprod (twice) means it's no longer self-defence, but aggravated assault, and after you cuffed him and put him in maintenance, stabbing his eyes out with a screwdriver can't be claimed as lawful given that he posed no threat whilst restrained.

* The Miner smashes the window to get into the Testing Lab. This is... acceptable per our rules.
* The Scientist attacks the Miner for breaking in. This is... also acceptable, because escalation.
* After the Scientist causes severe damage to the Miner, the Miner retaliates and wins. This is... more escalation.
* The Miner deescalates the conflict by, after restraining the Scientist, healing them.
* The Scientist gets freed. The conflict has ended, and there's nothing to escalate.
* The Scientist comes back with a stunprod and stuncuffs the Miner, taking their headset and moving them to the mass driver. This is... either kidnap or attempted murder.
* The Miner is freed. The conflict has ended again, and there's nothing to escalate. The Scientist has had their vengeance already by kidnapping the Miner.
* The Scientist comes back again and stuncuffs the Miner, taking them into an inescapable maintenance room. This is... kidnapping.
* The Scientist stabs the Miner in the eyes until they are blinded. This is... grievous bodily harm with intent.


I'll direct you to the case of Malkevin vs RosenRitter, where some assistant tried breaking into cargo and I'd ejected them multiple times before they eventually did break in and so I killed them, where it was determined that we DO operate under Castle Doctrine, which means that self defence extends to the workplace as well as the person.
Everyone has a right to remove unwanteds from their workplace via any means necessary, healing someone doesn't excuse the fact you just smashed their skull in and are still intruding in their workplace - all it demonstrates is that you didn't want to get banned for killing someone in their workplace.


I guess this thread should be locked though seeing as Shaps has already said a ban wouldn't happen.

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Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
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Re: Drake King: blind, strips and maroons Miner

Postby onleavedontatme » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:29 pm #163078

Ban requests is being closed down, resolved.


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