Repukan - The Madrugad

Discuss policies and candidacies with the potential Headmins.

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D&B
 
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Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby D&B » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:24 am #477937

1. Why

2. Stuff I intend to change
2.A - Rules
2.B - Precedents
2.C - Consistency
2.D - Ghost roles + Suicides
2.E - Events
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Why

Not enough has been improved. Saucy words of consistency, rapport, and communication have culminated in nothing. Worse, blatant disregard or mismanagement of these rules has been rampant.

I know I can do better.

Thus, I run
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Stuff I intend to address

2.A Ruling Observance

Actually concise rulings for escalation. I feel it is a duty of headmins to ensure rulings remain consistent, not admins, since they're simply the enforcers, and it should be up to headmins to ensure a line is being followed, a standard being properly set. I wish to expand the functionality of headmins as more encompassing or involved overseers rather than whatever we have now.

2.B Precedents

I feel some recent cases have shown how little regard there is for precedents. Worse, still, is the appliance of retroactive punishment for things allowed under the purview of the current rules due to a bias against a banned person. This is unfair for the person appealing. This doesn't mean, of course, that someone is being banned for something that is allowed now, but rather someone staying banned for something allowed in the moment of the appeal, and changing the precedent as the appeal result to keep the person banned.

The current triumvirate has done wonderful advances in compiling past admin rulings. They've faltered in making good use of them.

2.C Consistency

There has been a disregard for consistence in the appliance of rules during this head term. People with blatant disregard for the most basic rules have been allowed to carry on with no punishment at all, and single parties have been punished when the most simple of further investigation would have revealed that more than the singular person banned was involved in this unruly behavior. Worse, these faults have been shushed and kept in low voices because they're the most telling flaws the current triumvirate has committed.

2.D Ghost roles + Suicides

After much deliberation, I decided to put this into my list of considerations as well. I wish to pursue harsher punishments for people that abuse ghost role meta-knowledge and also for people that roll critical game roles and suicide when they don't roll antagonistic roles.

2.E - Events

I plan on adding guidelines for admin run events in order to add some accountability to their effects on station. Things such as giving a forewarning to players that the next round might have an event, a limiter on sound spam, and so on, are just basic necessities for things to be enjoyable for the playerbase as well. Any event ran without previous warning to the playerbase (Something as simple as saying in OOC "Hey next round is a event round") will open the event to be complaint worthy. This does not mean, however, that someone will immediately will be deadminned for a shitty event. We have warning and note systems for a reason. Let's make use of those as well.

I will answer any and all questions
Last edited by D&B on Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.



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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby wesoda25 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:51 am #477961

If made headmin, would you revisit and over turn rulings made by past terms, or just maintain consistency proactively?

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby D&B » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:56 am #477967

wesoda25 wrote:If made headmin, would you revisit and over turn rulings made by past terms, or just maintain consistency proactively?


I'd have to check with the other two members of the triumvirate, and if they feel it could be made better or we're just better off changing them, then yes, they would be overturned.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:02 am #477977

You’ve stated a concise set of grievances with the current way the headmins run the server. What are your actual specific plans to follow along with your fellow headmins should you win, in place of the current ad-hoc case-by-case enforcements?
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Still, my support will always go towards the rightful Lord of Yurop, God-Emperor Donald Trump the Trumpst. Trumpingrad for life. He'll make an indiscriminate number of countries great again.


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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby D&B » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:09 am #477984

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:You’ve stated a concise set of grievances with the current way the headmins run the server. What are your actual specific plans to follow along with your fellow headmins should you win, in place of the current ad-hoc case-by-case enforcements?


A more concise, more specific (since it seems any sort of open endedness only ends in disarray) approach to deal with such cases. One of the most rampant issues we have is people weaponizing administrators in order to misguide and get other players banned. With cases breaking this approach due to being too unique or out of context being more personally approached by the triumvirate in full, and in earnest.

Not all cases are the same, mind you, but an umbrella should cover most of those that are alike.

While cooperation with my fellow headmins is the ideal, I believe if they don't make themselves able in a two day span, the remaining two headmins should reach a consensus and inform the third member. Yes, real life has its issues and obligations, but one should not undertake running for such an important position if they cannot find the time for it.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:12 am #477993

How do you envision the specificity of rulings in general? A new wiki page as a guide for admins and players? An expansion to the existing rules page?
Image
Still, my support will always go towards the rightful Lord of Yurop, God-Emperor Donald Trump the Trumpst. Trumpingrad for life. He'll make an indiscriminate number of countries great again.


Deadcomic

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby D&B » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:18 am #478000

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:How do you envision the specificity of rulings in general? A new wiki page as a guide for admins and players? An expansion to the existing rules page?


Ideally a new wiki page and new forum thread. Current rules page is a headache to read and looks ugly
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby captain sawrge » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:20 am #479086

You should sincerely vote for repukan and if he doesn't win someo one should addmin him.

Well, goodbye forever.
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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby lmwevil » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:00 am #479106

a vote for repukan is a vote not for goof +1

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby obscolene » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:26 am #479114

a vote for repukan is a vote not for any of the rly shit candidates +1
sc#4622 | everybodygangstauntilnig.ga (UPDATED FREQUENTLY)

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[03:46:59]EMOTE: The Dreamweaver/(Steve Leaf) : <b>Steve Leaf</b> starts jacking lizard dick. (129,128,2)
[03:47:33]SAY: Steve Leaf/The Dreamweaver : OH FUCK IM CHOAKING (129,128,2)
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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby bman » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:45 am #479134

he's rated "Good." chief
pryce bax.
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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby PhobosDeimos » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:59 am #479192

sawrge's headmin pick
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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:08 am #480080

What sort of punishments do you think are appropriate for people who roll station roles just to get antag and suicide if they dont get it?


How would you go about detecting this? The roundstart DC/death list?
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Still, my support will always go towards the rightful Lord of Yurop, God-Emperor Donald Trump the Trumpst. Trumpingrad for life. He'll make an indiscriminate number of countries great again.


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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby D&B » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:00 am #480107

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:What sort of punishments do you think are appropriate for people who roll station roles just to get antag and suicide if they dont get it?


How would you go about detecting this? The roundstart DC/death list?


I'll preface by saying I have a really strong bias against this kind of behavior, for many reasons. SS13 is a game I consider to be a platform to interact with other people and to allow stories to develop, and in this regard /tg/ is very organic in how the stories develop.

On first offense it would be a warning, and a note

Second offense, a jobban from the roles being used to antag roll, and ghost roles.

Third offense would probably be a permanent antagonist ban.

Ways I would check for this is with the death timers, and attack logs, which show the GPS position now, and also DC/Suicide timers within a time frame not discussed here since this is a rough draft on how I'll deal with this.

With one week to polish this and introduce it as a rule, and one week to warn players of the incoming change and so on, I believe I could have it ready to roll out and implemented within the first two months, at most, of my headminship.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby TehSteveo » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:53 pm #480323

Repukan has a varied history, but I feel he learned from past bans against him. I believe he is sincere in his campaign, making him a rare good player pick. I do believe voting for Repukan is actually not a waste of a vote and I'd be happy to see him join the admin team.
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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby subject217 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:21 am #480392

Hi Repukan. I had a question about one of the things you said.

D&B wrote:One of the most rampant issues we have is people weaponizing administrators in order to misguide and get other players banned. With cases breaking this approach due to being too unique or out of context being more personally approached by the triumvirate in full, and in earnest.

Not all cases are the same, mind you, but an umbrella should cover most of those that are alike.

So what you're saying here is that you believe that the /tg/ station administration has an issue with ban baiting, and you'd like to fix that with a rules change, correct? Would you be willing to give some examples of where you believe this happened? And what exactly would you be changing about the rules/admin policy/what have you to put an end to this?
thankfully former admin
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20553

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby Nabski » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:58 pm #480447

What's Madrugad mean?
Welcome to the second page.

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby ColonicAcid » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:30 pm #480458

madrugada.
crack is whack but smacks got your back

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby D&B » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:02 pm #480461

subject217 wrote:Hi Repukan. I had a question about one of the things you said.

D&B wrote:One of the most rampant issues we have is people weaponizing administrators in order to misguide and get other players banned. With cases breaking this approach due to being too unique or out of context being more personally approached by the triumvirate in full, and in earnest.

Not all cases are the same, mind you, but an umbrella should cover most of those that are alike.

So what you're saying here is that you believe that the /tg/ station administration has an issue with ban baiting, and you'd like to fix that with a rules change, correct? Would you be willing to give some examples of where you believe this happened? And what exactly would you be changing about the rules/admin policy/what have you to put an end to this?


-Yes
-Yes again

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21706

This ban is an example of ban baiting. The person weaponized the use of administrators in order to seek an OOC win when they could not achieve it IC. One of the things I want to change is the obligation to clone or keep someone in the round if they're a consistent pest or they have escalated to lethal combat. It makes no sense in my opinion that you should make yourself responsible for someone that will more likely than not keep pursuing your death.

Furthermore, I would make it a concise rule that if the issue has devolved into the point in which you can be killed for your actions, or the other person may be killed for their actions, any method of disposing of the body is carte blanched. Too many times people have ahelped that they've been permanently removed from the round when they themselves have become pests for the confronting player or the station at large. There's two other servers and myriads of ghost roles for them to continue their round. If bad play was involved, then we have a solid ground to proceed on and note/ban/discuss. If it was a legit case of an IC issue devolving into your death, then this is a good application and enforcement of rule 10.

I am also going to streamline the way escalation is worded, which is going to be a big hurdle. I have an idea, but I'm still thinking on how to proceed on it.

Nabski wrote:What's Madrugad mean?


The Church revered the Sun-in-Splendour before it was divided - but even while it was still whole, its later selves were recognized as its Names. The Madrugad, of course, presided over death and the passage into the House.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby NoxVS » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:35 pm #480499

D&B wrote:
Nabski wrote:What's Madrugad mean?


The Church revered the Sun-in-Splendour before it was divided - but even while it was still whole, its later selves were recognized as its Names. The Madrugad, of course, presided over death and the passage into the House.

Imagine thinking the Madrugad is a superior hour to the Forge Of Days
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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby subject217 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:43 am #480560

Thanks for the reply. I had one more question, or more of a remark really.

D&B wrote:I am also going to streamline the way escalation is worded, which is going to be a big hurdle. I have an idea, but I'm still thinking on how to proceed on it.


Why do you think nobody has ever done this before since Kor's escalation policy was put into place over a year ago? Furthermore, what makes you believe that you are in a position to understand exactly how escalation plays out beyond your own personal perceptions and what you see in ban appeals? Do you think that your perception could change as a headmin? Also I would love to hear more details on what your idea for fixing escalation policy is beyond removing the idea of helping people/not spacing people that you've killed.
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viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20553

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:10 pm #480578

I too, am curious about how a policy which is mainly criticised for being a single catch-all bin of valid could in any way be streamlined. (to the extent where the only thing allowing you to ban someone who gibs a crewman who accidentally punches them instead of disarming is admin fiat)
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Still, my support will always go towards the rightful Lord of Yurop, God-Emperor Donald Trump the Trumpst. Trumpingrad for life. He'll make an indiscriminate number of countries great again.


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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby D&B » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:37 pm #480599

subject217 wrote:Thanks for the reply. I had one more question, or more of a remark really.

D&B wrote:I am also going to streamline the way escalation is worded, which is going to be a big hurdle. I have an idea, but I'm still thinking on how to proceed on it.


Why do you think nobody has ever done this before since Kor's escalation policy was put into place over a year ago? Furthermore, what makes you believe that you are in a position to understand exactly how escalation plays out beyond your own personal perceptions and what you see in ban appeals? Do you think that your perception could change as a headmin? Also I would love to hear more details on what your idea for fixing escalation policy is beyond removing the idea of helping people/not spacing people that you've killed.


-Because issues with this escalation policy enforcement hadn't been as pronounced as they are now.

-It is what we see in ban appeals what allows us to infer how the policy is being enforced, and the way it is currently being enforced suffers from admin's ban enforcement, and in some cases, player misunderstanding. I have been in enough appeals of my own and enough policy threads in order to realize my own perspective is not perfect. It never will, and a perfect perspective is a ridiculous notion to entertain.

-What I've said regarding the permanent removal clause goes beyond that. Context is always important in these cases, since our very combat system is fast and lethal. It is an idealistic, unfounded notion to ask people to always attempt hold back in a fight and use restraint when the main instigator will almost always use escalation to kill the person they're instigating. You're an administrator, so I'd hope you're aware many players take pleasure in pushing people to their limit until they fuck up and they get a carte blanche to kill them.

It always seemed to me that for some reason, administrators seem to think security is always available, or willing to respond to the security alarms. That's false, most of the time you can't rely on security, and you shouldn't die or let an instigator kill you because you're afraid of being banned.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I too, am curious about how a policy which is mainly criticised for being a single catch-all bin of valid could in any way be streamlined. (to the extent where the only thing allowing you to ban someone who gibs a crewman who accidentally punches them instead of disarming is admin fiat)


"If you are the instigator in a conflict and end up killing or severely impairing the round of the person you are fighting, you should make a reasonable effort to return them to life at least once or make amends, only seeking round removal if they continue to pursue you. This protection doesn't apply to an instigator being killed. "

There's no reason to hold it against players if they permanently remove someone from the round after they've had multiple confrontations and let them get away. There's no such thing as a "death ends all confrontation" because players will, if revived, still seek revenge. One of the main flaws in the policy that Kor himself pointed out at one point was that it was open to people using administrators as their safe net when they failed to enact their own revenge in an IC manner. I want to fix this flaw, but I don't know the best way to approach it. Provisions? Change? I certainly can't ignore it. I have left it vague and open ended because I truly don't know yet, and it is a matter I would have to discuss with both the playerbase, administration, and the rest of the triumvirate before I can actually promise anything of substance. Empty promises are just that, empty, trash conglomeration of words. I don't like that.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:42 pm #480863

Wait, your suggested changes to escalation policy is "Remove the clause that says you cant kick a random person then space their body after they attack you back"?????
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Still, my support will always go towards the rightful Lord of Yurop, God-Emperor Donald Trump the Trumpst. Trumpingrad for life. He'll make an indiscriminate number of countries great again.


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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby D&B » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:10 pm #480868

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Wait, your suggested changes to escalation policy is "Remove the clause that says you cant kick a random person then space their body after they attack you back"?????


No, because the instigator doesn't have these protections, and what I wrote and expressed was to remove the unspoken, permanent removal protection from instigators when both administrators and players know that cloning someone that starts a conflict and keeps coming back is only going to enable them to keep trying to kill you for a conflict they started and that by continuing escalation they can now kill you. Some players start conflicts, keep baiting the person until they get killed, and either ahelp because they died, ahelp because they don't get cloned, or use their death as an excuse to kill the person they started the conflict to begin with.
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[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:45 am #480887

D&B wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Wait, your suggested changes to escalation policy is "Remove the clause that says you cant kick a random person then space their body after they attack you back"?????


No, because the instigator doesn't have these protections, and what I wrote and expressed was to remove the unspoken, permanent removal protection from instigators when both administrators and players know that cloning someone that starts a conflict and keeps coming back is only going to enable them to keep trying to kill you for a conflict they started and that by continuing escalation they can now kill you. Some players start conflicts, keep baiting the person until they get killed, and either ahelp because they died, ahelp because they don't get cloned, or use their death as an excuse to kill the person they started the conflict to begin with.


What are you talking about. There is no protection for instigators whatsoever. Its the whole point of the line you quoted.
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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby teepeepee » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:08 am #480891

that's not how it's been enforced in the past 6 months, that's his point

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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:58 am #480894

I guess i haven’t noticed because I’ve been enforcing it to the letter wherever even remotely reasonable.
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Re: Repukan - The Madrugad

Postby subject217 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:27 am #480904

I'm probably not going to check this thread again but I figured I'd reply anyway since I think you misunderstood my meaning.

-It is what we see in ban appeals what allows us to infer how the policy is being enforced, and the way it is currently being enforced suffers from admin's ban enforcement, and in some cases, player misunderstanding. I have been in enough appeals of my own and enough policy threads in order to realize my own perspective is not perfect. It never will, and a perfect perspective is a ridiculous notion to entertain.

See, I'm not suggesting a perfect perspective. My point is that admins ingame actually doing admin work see the game significantly differently compared to players or people who read forum drama for entertainment. And being a headmin, this is in fact one of the things you can do, you get to do everything a normal admin can. So my line of reasoning is that if you were to win the headmin election you might find that things are not necessarily as they seem to you now. I'm generalizing, but to put it frankly, it's not even just about like public bans or something. A lot of it is the stuff that never becomes a ban, because the admin decided it wasn't actionable, or because of extenuating circumstances, or a variety of things. And I don't even necessarily mean that what you're deciding to change is a bad idea, I mean that your priorities would probably shift. If you were to be elected headmin I think it'd serve you very well to acclimate yourself to this before you tried to make sweeping policy decisions.

What I've said regarding the permanent removal clause goes beyond that. Context is always important in these cases, since our very combat system is fast and lethal. It is an idealistic, unfounded notion to ask people to always attempt hold back in a fight and use restraint when the main instigator will almost always use escalation to kill the person they're instigating. You're an administrator, so I'd hope you're aware many players take pleasure in pushing people to their limit until they fuck up and they get a carte blanche to kill them.

I'm well aware of the killbaiting issue and if you had read my headmin thread you'd understand all the thought I've put into solving it. This one hurts just a little bit.
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PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:44 am.
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