Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Discuss policies and candidacies with the potential Headmins.

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Nervere
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Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:43 am #478074

Preface
Hey everyone! I'm running for a second term as a headmin after 6 months that felt like it passed by in an instant.
In this thread, I'm going to lay out what I'm going to do, and what I think still needs to be changed after considering what I've learned in this position.

Activity/Community Involvement
To start, just as I pledged last time, you can count on me to always be an active headmin who plays the game and remains in-touch with the dynamics of the game as they change.
Throughout my term, I have logged on several times every day, both adminning and playing, both because I love the game and because it's required to do the job right.
Here's the current data, which you can view for yourself by clicking on this link.
In the past 30 days, I have had 271 connections. This job hasn't burned me out and I'm just as active as when I started.
Image

Expanding Admin Complaints
We've had some concerns lately over admin complaints not being encompassing enough to maintain full admin accountability. I tend to agree with this sentiment: you see, there's currently a bit of an odd, outdated restriction on complaints.
The complaint subforum is limited only to in-game instances of admin abuse, when really this should encompass in-game, the forums, and Discord. Just as they have powers in-game, TrialAdmins and GameAdmins also have (limited) mod powers on the forums, as well as mod powers on our Discord server. To that end, admins should be held publicly accountable for their use of these powers. I will change the admin complaints subforum to allow these sort of complaints, and work with the other two headmins to draft rules that make sense for these complaints.
Disclaimer: This doesn't mean that I want to hold admins accountable for shitposting on the forums or Discord. This is limited to their use of administrative/moderator powers only. I'm not looking to tone police our admins.

Policy Discussion Formalization
Policy discussions! They're the best way for players to express their views on current topics, and bring topics to the forefront so that the administration can weigh in and begin to address them.
There's one problem though: they can often go ignored and don't receive a timely response. I am guilty of this. This term, while we were able to handle a large amount of policy threads and give them their formal endings, not all policy threads were lucky enough to have a definite conclusion. With how important precedent and policy threads are to our rules, it's essential that all threads reach a proper conclusion.
Therefore, I would like to implement a one-week requirement on a headmin reply to the policy thread, so players know where the rules currently stand, and a two-week requirement for the policy thread to be resolved.
Two weeks may seem like a bit long, but the important part of policy threads is that everyone in the community who wants to gets to weigh in, and there's no need to rush the process of discourse.
This would ensure that policy threads reach a conclusion one way or another, much like how bans have a one-week requirement for resolution.

Community Meetings!
Community meetings have gone really well so far! I'm so glad that we've started doing this, and we'll probably having another one in a week or two.
We've had two so far, and both of them have gone pretty well. So far, it's acted as a gateway for players to directly and publicly express their concerns to admins and headmins, and engage in debate about it, too.
It's been pretty productive in my eyes and I look forward to continue hosting them.

Escalation Policy
Escalation policy is the giant that has been looming over my head for a long time, and I haven't exactly addressed it this term. It's my biggest regret, and I want to finally put this issue to rest.
I have my reasons for not addressing it yet, and I'm going to lay out what my plans are for it here.
Firstly, escalation isn't as simple as "killbaiting vs. banbaiting". People like to compare the old escalation policy allowing banbaiting versus the current one allowing killbaiting, but it's not as simple as that.
Escalation is, at its root, tied into every aspect of Rule 1 and Security Policy. The essential problem with escalation is that it assumes every conflict is inherently deadly and must end in a deadly matter.

The problem with this is that, because of this, conflicts that normally would have been against Rule 1 are allowed, since violence is normalized by this policy and it turns itself into an IC issue. Didn't think the conflict was fair? You shouldn't have retaliated. That's the mentality the policy brings on, and it's shit. It means that people who are victims to grief and stupid, violent conflicts have to either sit there and take it, or retaliate and told it's an IC issue if they lose.
That's garbage, but when what everyone wants from consistency from admins these days, what really is the alternative? For example: the alternative that I've juggled around in my head is that a conflict must be "reasonable". What defines reasonable? We can lay down some guidelines, but it's ultimately the admin's opinion. Changing escalation policy to allow conflict "within reason" would probably be a change for the better, but then we get two issues: firstly, it's now easier to banbait, by purposefully escalating a reasonable conflict and then losing, as was the problem with the old policy. Secondly, "reasonableness" can only be determined by the admin investigating, and that will always vary. In short, there is simply no easy way to fix this. You can either maintain consistency but allow more violent interactions, or neuter interactions but open it to more objectivity.
To that end, I think the current escalation policy has accomplished its job well, and isn't necessarily TERRIBLE, but it does need to be changed. What those specific changes will be would have to be determined with a Town Hall thread and a discussion with the other two headmins.
Despite all this, I am absolutely determined to fix this mess of a policy.

Silicon Rules Rework
Let me just get this out of the way: Silicon Policy SUCKS. It really does. It is far, far too long. It takes up half of our rules page. It really doesn't need to be this complicated.
Silicon policy is a complicated issue, but I can't be specific in how it would change without a long policy thread laying out my proposal and talking it over with the other two headmins.
To that end, I will only generalize, but my plan for silicon changes are this:
• Silicon policy rules should be shortened down, making them broader and less extremely specific.
• Silicon policy should protect an AI from shitty orders (already sort of does, but it could be better) while still allowing for the AI to have fun with its laws.
• Silicon policy should encourage AI's to actually act like a silicon, instead of V.A.L.I.D.T.R.O.N.-5000.

Review Threads - The Definitive Answer
Review threads are something that I wanted to get reformed this term, but due to disagreements and delays it never really ended up working out.
My opinion on it hasn't changed, though. Candidate threads suck and I want to change them.
We tried to encourage more community participation in threads by advertising them in a big blurb in the MotD, but that didn't have any noticeable impact.
Instead, what should happen is the headmins take the responsibility of review into their own hands. More, there should also be a formalized process for just how a TrialAdmin is reviewed.
Headmins under this reform would be required to do the following for each TrialAdmin review thread:
• Explain all factors that they considered when deciding to either demote, extend, or promote the TrialAdmin.
• Specific posts from players should be cited where relevant.
• Review a minimum of 3 administrative actions (bans, notes, etc.) by the TrialAdmin somewhat extensively and evaluate their performance in investigating the scenario, handling information, and coming to a decision.
• Any administrative decisions by the TrialAdmin which may be considered questionable or odd should be reviewed in this thread to correct errors not spotted before and ensure a successful trial.

Rework the Candidacy Period
This topic is more aimed at admins and admin trainers, but I want to work with admins to rework how the candidacy system works, and how players understand it.
This would start with me making a public thread disclosing how our admin candidate process works, how people are selected, and so on.
At the start of this term I was heavily considering opening applications, however the idea proved somewhat controversial and I began to second-guess myself on if it really was a good idea.
A good middle-ground, instead, is keeping the current process of selection by AdminTrainers, GameMasters, and Headmins, and instead making it completely transparent as to how this internal process works.

Transparency bit aside, the actual candidacy process needs to be reworked, too. The way we train admins needs to have a more step-by-step process, more pre-written guides involved for reference, and the training note needs a good updating, too. This stuff will require a lot of man-hours and debate, particularly the guide-writing and updating of how we train people, but it's a very worthwhile process and it's time I'm willing to put in.

It's not an easy job, but I love it.
This job takes up a lot of time. A lot. All previous headmins know this and all incoming ones will soon learn it.
It's a daily process of everyone coming to you with their issues, and oftentimes it will be no one else's job but yours to solve it.
It has been stressful at times, but just as rewarding, even when feeling the pressure and personal responsibility when things don't look great.
My term hasn't been perfect, but I have learned a lot while it went on. I'm experienced, I'm ready for another term, and I'd love to continue to serve the community.

Image
(Thanks to MrDoomBringer for this amazing art for the election!)
Last edited by Nervere on Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: rehosted an image



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Hulkamania
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Hulkamania » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:45 am #478076

My only regret in running is that I must run against Nervere as competition. He's a damn good headmin.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby MortoSasye » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:46 am #478077

+1 for Nervere, he has been an excellent headmin this term and will probably continue doing so next one.

PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:12 am.
Reason: low effort post deleted

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby wubli » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:01 am #478087

i got drunk and called nervere a fake bitch because of the 100% transparency thing and he agreed so i support this caus e honesty is good
part time admin ♡ full time e̸̷͘l̕͝d̕r̛͘͢͟͡i҉҉t́͟͠c̷͝h̸̡͠ ̀̕͟ą͘͘͠b҉̕͠ò̸̡͢͞m̸̀̕͜͡i͞ǹ̕͟͞͝ą̸͘͟͞t͘͢͜i͏̵̛́͝ó̡͢ń̀͘͘
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby bman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:03 am #478090

i put him on the top of the list last election, i can confidently say
Spoiler:
it was a mistake bro
pryce bax.
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby D&B » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:04 am #478091

Could you please explain how during your candidacy and, I assume, your purview, a player was banned for metagaming, caught evading the next day, and let off without any hitches a few days after?
Last edited by D&B on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby obscolene » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:04 am #478092

bman wrote:i put him on the top of the list last election, i can confidently say
it was a mistake bro

same
sc#4622 | everybodygangstauntilnig.ga (UPDATED FREQUENTLY)

Image
[03:46:59]EMOTE: The Dreamweaver/(Steve Leaf) : <b>Steve Leaf</b> starts jacking lizard dick. (129,128,2)
[03:47:33]SAY: Steve Leaf/The Dreamweaver : OH FUCK IM CHOAKING (129,128,2)
Spoiler:
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ImageImageImage
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PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:59 am.
Reason: if you're going to extend it to everyone, make a debate thread

PostThis post was deleted by TehSteveo on Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:11 pm.
Reason: Response to deleted post

PostThis post was deleted by TehSteveo on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:07 pm.
Reason: Copypasta

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Coconutwarrior97
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:24 am #478198

In my opinion a very good Headmin, they have repeatedly shown both a levelheadedness and openness to the opinions of others, both of which I think are very valuable attributes to have.

Additionally, he has kept to many of the promises he made in the last election. Such as activity, a commitment to transparency, and the actions they have taken with admin trainers/admin candidates.

Activity: As Nervere has already posted in this thread, he has a large amount of connections to the server showing his continued investment in the community. He has also involved himself daily with various admin discussions.
Transparency: No more unnecessary secret notes, community meetings, and their general attitude with transparency is one of the main reasons I voted for them last term and I'm glad to say they've stuck to that.
ATs/ACs: Has helped get us two amazing ATs who have in turn supplied us with an influx of MUCH needed new admins to deal with Terry and Bagil. There was a period where I felt we were very strained on staffing for the servers and long swaths of time where I would be the only one on terry to manage it, but with the addition of new admins due to those ATs I can say things are much more manageable now.

There have been some topics he has not acted upon, but I do not see that as a failure but an inherent reality of what its like to be a Headmin. Events pop up constantly which require attention and can interrupt whatever ambitious plans you might have. The main thing here is that I have not seen him act AGAINST anything he stated in his past election thread.

Finally, what is most important for me out of a Headmin is an understanding of their character. Ban appeals and unexpected events are going to pop up throughout any Headmin term and I look to the character of a Headmin to ensure I have faith in their ability to manage these in a professional and rational manner. I believe Nervere's character as a Headmin and a person is rock solid and I feel content knowing they are handling these issues when they pop up.

tl;dr
Stuck with their platform over this past term, good character. Agree with what they're planning this term. I feel confident and comfortable with them handling the day to day happenings and whatever unexpected events pop up.
Last edited by Coconutwarrior97 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 am #478202

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:Finally, what is most important for me out of a Headmin is an understanding of their character. Ban appeals and unexpected events are going to pop up throughout any Headmin term and I look to the character of a Headmin to ensure I have faith in their ability to manage these in a professional and rational manner. I believe Nervere's character as a Headmin and a person is rock solid and I feel content knowing they are handling these issues when they pop up.

Maybe that is true in public eyes however my personal experience with him makes me disagree with you. He approached an issue he had with me in what felt like an underhanded way. That's all I wish to say.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby lmwevil » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:36 am #478209

i was a bit miffed by their election model last year, vast improvement over smashing down the previous headmins now that he was tempered with experience

certainly don't agree with all his opinions but proven to be pretty competent, he a good boi - probably will win headmin again just like citrus would have if he didn't cancel his spot

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby D&B » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:54 pm #478280

D&B wrote:Could you please explain how during your candidacy and, I assume, your purview, a player was banned for metagaming, caught evading the next day, and let off without any hitches a few days after?


Answer this, please
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Nervere
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:55 pm #478323

obscolene wrote:
bman wrote:i put him on the top of the list last election, i can confidently say
it was a mistake bro

same

I'm sorry you feel this way, and I'm not able to read your minds as to why, but if I were to guess I'd say it's about the catperson vote.
I don't hold a very favorable view of catpeople in general, but as the player vote headmin, it wouldn't be right of me to blatantly disregard the wishes of the people who play the species.
Ultimately, my goal during the whole drama with the vote was to make sure that, no matter what happened, our community wouldn't fracture because of it.

D&B wrote:Could you please explain how during your candidacy and, I assume, your purview, a player was banned for metagaming, caught evading the next day, and let off without any hitches a few days after?

This actually had nothing to do with me. See this thread. The transfer of power didn't happen until September 15th, and the headmins from the previous term were still in power. I strongly disagreed with the unban, but it wasn't within my power to do anything about it. You may think, "why didn't you re-ban them when you eventually took power?" And the answer to that is retroactively re-banning people whose appeals you disagreed with when you take power as a headmin is an awful, awful precedent to set.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby ohnopigeons » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:17 pm #478359

From the debate thread:

Nervere wrote:
D&B wrote:
Nervere wrote:I gotta be honest, I really fucking regret that ban with Istoprocent (the lizard detective) and Anuv. I made a stupid decision and realized it far too late. Any criticism of me for that choice is 100% valid.


So why don't you?

It's not just about me. I ended up making the reply in the ban thread, but the decision against Istoprocent in the ban appeal a vote among the headmins.
What I regret now is supporting it, and not tipping the scale of the vote when I could. That's part of being a headmin, though. You'll regret some of your decisions and sometimes the best that you can hope to do is learn from it.

What exactly is stopping you from reversing or revisiting the decision? Or making a dissenting opinion after you realized you strongly regret it?

You've talked about minding precedents you might set with your actions, why not mind this one?
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby bandit » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:00 pm #478369

• Review a minimum of 3 administrative actions (bans, notes, etc.) by the TrialAdmin somewhat extensively and evaluate their performance in investigating the scenario, handling information, and coming to a decision.


This sounds like a massive amount of red tape, how do you plan on not getting backed up? How are the actions chosen?
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admin feedback pls

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Nervere
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:36 pm #478399

ohnopigeons wrote:What exactly is stopping you from reversing or revisiting the decision? Or making a dissenting opinion after you realized you strongly regret it?

You've talked about minding precedents you might set with your actions, why not mind this one?

This is a good question. The answer is, quite truthfully, because until recently, I hadn't begun to see the flaws with the ban. I think I was blinded by how the player involved's reputation played into the ban, when in reality that wasn't relevant at all.
It's very possible for us to revisit a decision or appeal after it has happened if the opinion of the headmin team changes, but that simply didn't happen in the time after my opinion had begun to change, and I don't feel comfortable reversing controversial decisions for brownie points while the election is going on.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:42 pm #478407

bandit wrote:
• Review a minimum of 3 administrative actions (bans, notes, etc.) by the TrialAdmin somewhat extensively and evaluate their performance in investigating the scenario, handling information, and coming to a decision.


This sounds like a massive amount of red tape, how do you plan on not getting backed up? How are the actions chosen?

It's actually not a lot of work when it comes down to actually reviewing the actions. Getting all of the logs for an investigation is as simple as pulling the game.log and attack.log for relevant files, and then grepping the files for the string ADMINPRIVATE and any involved ckeys. After that, it's simply a matter of laying out the logs and the reviewing headmin evaluating how well the TrialAdmin investigated the incident. Since Headmins are (in theory) experienced GameAdmins, it wouldn't be particularly hard to gather the facts of the case and see if anything was missed or not considered. I don't think writing a short paragraph for 3 of an admin's rulings is that much of a price to pay for a degree higher of quality assurance in our TrialAdmins.

As to how the cases would be chosen? That's also pretty simple. Notes or bans that deal with in-depth situations would be prioritized, as these are the most important things that admins deal with, and are also the most relevant to the rules.
Provided that the admin in question fully describes the scenario they dealt with in the note/ban reason, such situations would be easy to narrow down.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby gum disease » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:53 pm #478414

Brilliant headmin. Nervere genuinely cares about the community and the well-being of its members. Didn't play lip-service to garner votes, actually stuck to his principles once he was elected.
Strongly agree that silicon policy needs to be pruned because it is incredibly long and could definitely be more concise. Some parts are super convoluted when they don't need to be, which can make it off-putting to read.

Got my vote last election, will be getting it again this time around.
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby D&B » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:08 am #478421

Nervere wrote:
ohnopigeons wrote:What exactly is stopping you from reversing or revisiting the decision? Or making a dissenting opinion after you realized you strongly regret it?

You've talked about minding precedents you might set with your actions, why not mind this one?

This is a good question. The answer is, quite truthfully, because until recently, I hadn't begun to see the flaws with the ban. I think I was blinded by how the player involved's reputation played into the ban, when in reality that wasn't relevant at all.
It's very possible for us to revisit a decision or appeal after it has happened if the opinion of the headmin team changes, but that simply didn't happen in the time after my opinion had begun to change, and I don't feel comfortable reversing controversial decisions for brownie points while the election is going on.


But you do feel comfortable cashing the brownie points for mentioning correcting that during the election, right?
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Nervere
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:22 am #478432

gum disease wrote:Brilliant headmin. Nervere genuinely cares about the community and the well-being of its members. Didn't play lip-service to garner votes, actually stuck to his principles once he was elected.
Strongly agree that silicon policy needs to be pruned because it is incredibly long and could definitely be more concise. Some parts are super convoluted when they don't need to be, which can make it off-putting to read.

Got my vote last election, will be getting it again this time around.

Thanks so much for the support!
Repukan wrote:But you do feel comfortable cashing the brownie points for mentioning correcting that during the election, right?

Come on now, Repukan. There's no shame in admitting to mistakes, and publicly acknowledging them is the best way to learn from them. You have to start somewhere!

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby teepeepee » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:34 am #478487

Why not reverse your mistake if you've already acknowledged it as such? if anything it makes you look worse, especially considering you just said it can be undone
like what kinda message does that convey? I will not solve my fuckups even if I recognize I do them?

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:22 am #478496

teepeepee wrote:Why not reverse your mistake if you've already acknowledged it as such? if anything it makes you look worse, especially considering you just said it can be undone
like what kinda message does that convey? I will not solve my fuckups even if I recognize I do them?

I don’t think I have been clear enough in the message I’m trying to convey so let me put this a bit differently.
As mentioned, I regret the decision I made with the ban. I’ve been mulling it over in the past few days and I plan on working to overturn it. However, I’m not going to overturn it mid-election, because that compromises the whole process of repealing it. Anyone who disagreed with the decision would have the completely valid criticism that, “I think you only did it because of the election”. If anything, this situation would compromise the precedent we’re trying to set even further.
Therefore, it makes the most sense to overturn the decision after the election - which I plan to do - so that it cannot be construed as being politically motivated.

In short: I do want to fix my fuck-up, but doing it during election time makes it seem politically-motivated so it’s best to wait until afterwards.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby wesoda25 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:59 am #478524

Nerv can’t win. Redo the ban and he’ll get accused of doing it to get voters. Don’t redo it and people will say hes just saying things to get voters. He admitted he saw fault with how he handled it, good enough for me.

Although out of curiosity, how would you handle the ban if you were elected second term. Specifically. Just remove istoprocents ban, apply one to the other party involved, what? Hell, its not even out of curiosity. If you say you saw fault in your handling of the ban, we wanna know specifically what it was and how you’r change it or it really is just for brownie points.

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Nervere
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:08 am #478530

It was a seven day security ban which has since expired so it’s just a note at this point.
What I will end up doing is remove the note and then have a conversation with the player about what my beliefs were in the past, why they changed to what they are now, and why I’m removing the note. The conversation with the affected player is definitely an important part of the process, because to me it’s vital that they fully understand what happened with the note and why.

Further, no ban would be applied to other parties involved. My opinion hasn’t changed that there was no ban baiting.
Last edited by Nervere on Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: minor correction

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Dr_bee » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:36 am #478575

Attempting to make policy threads end in two weeks is a very ambitious thing to attempt, especially when it comes to certain topics that are controversial or very vague. Nervere, how are you going to make sure that the decisions in these threads arent arbitrary, or at least perceived as arbitrary. Would you be willing to use other tools such as player polls or your meetings to solve policy issues?

On the note of your record. I love the increase in player involvement, and listening to player concerns. You may have not increased transparency to 100% but you have done a good job at making things less opaque. The fact you are willing to take the time to explain your reasoning and are willing to change your mind makes you the best candidate in my opinion.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby tinodrima7020 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:56 pm #478841

Unironically The Only Candidate Worth Voting For. Has Proven Himself. Is Active In The Community Ingame, On The Forums, On Discord. Isn't A Fake Bitch That "Pretends To Be Nice Because They're Required To" - Fake Bitch Admin And Knows How To Have Fun With The Playerbase And Meme With The Best Of Them.
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:22 pm #478849

Nervere is without a doubt the best headmin I've had to deal with over the years, with maybe an exception for Kor.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby wubli » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:49 pm #478902

tinodrima7020 wrote:Unironically The Only Candidate Worth Voting For. Has Proven Himself. Is Active In The Community Ingame, On The Forums, On Discord. Isn't A Fake Bitch That "Pretends To Be Nice Because They're Required To" - Fake Bitch Admin And Knows How To Have Fun With The Playerbase And Meme With The Best Of Them.


@ me next time so we can figure out your concerns with me since you seem to call me nice but then say i'm pretending to which is quite confusing! also so you don't use nervere's thread as an excuse to attack me
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby BeeSting12 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:35 pm #478918

what took you so long to fix escalation? it was on your "to do" list forever and i never saw anything happen with it. not saying you didnt have any talks about it in headminbus but i personally never saw anything done about it.
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nilons » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:32 pm #478966

Your demeanor in this thread trying to get headmin again seems completely different than from the last 3 months and I suspect if you get headmin it'll go back to the way it was before immediately
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Lazengann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:55 pm #479035

Nilons wrote:Your demeanor in this thread trying to get headmin again seems completely different than from the last 3 months and I suspect if you get headmin it'll go back to the way it was before immediately

His posts in this thread are pretty consistent with his conduct in adminbus, except he uses fewer exclamation points in adminbus.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby MrDoomBringer » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:04 am #479053

Super nice guy! I'm not even good friends with him or anything and he still pinged me with screenshots that I was in just cus he thought I'd like to see, asked how events that I were in went, got excited about some fun features I coded (and gave some nice feedback), offered to be a test dummy for other PRs. Unironically a great person to talk to, even about non-admin related things. Pretty robust in-game.

Not as good as coming up with comebacks as me, though.
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Nervere
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:35 pm #479252

Dr_bee wrote:Attempting to make policy threads end in two weeks is a very ambitious thing to attempt, especially when it comes to certain topics that are controversial or very vague. Nervere, how are you going to make sure that the decisions in these threads arent arbitrary, or at least perceived as arbitrary. Would you be willing to use other tools such as player polls or your meetings to solve policy issues?

On the note of your record. I love the increase in player involvement, and listening to player concerns. You may have not increased transparency to 100% but you have done a good job at making things less opaque. The fact you are willing to take the time to explain your reasoning and are willing to change your mind makes you the best candidate in my opinion.

I get what you mean, Bee, and truth is that it's a delicate balance. What I want to achieve is that headmins become obligated to post in policy threads - and resolve them in a timely manner - so that some threads won't go unresolved.
Two weeks would work for most threads, but obviously not the larger ones. I guess a compromise we could have to this situation is - for large threads where the community is still debating, headmins could give an extension to the thread to continue the debate. That way, headmins are required to respond to policy threads still, yet may give extra time to larger, more important issues.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby High Impact Dolphin » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:25 pm #479582

not badmin
not goodmin
BESTMIN
has my vote, 100%
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nalzul » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:25 pm #479996

God I LOVE Nervere. Based and redpilled headmin.
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Mooshimi » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:45 am #480136

Are good boyo from what I've seen. You haves my vote
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby LaKiller8 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:01 pm #480259

I've been wanting to post in this thread for a while now but only today have I finally found the time for it. Most people here probably don't care a single bit about TGMC, but I'd like to provide my perspective relevant to Nervere here.

I was not a part of this project since the very start so how it was in the very early beginning is just what I've been told. When I joined it was a meme moth server with a dying playerbase that was almost never up. And if it wasn't for Rohesie convincing me to apply for mentor I would have visited it at most once and then quit right away. Appointing Rohesie as the manager/project lead was the single best decision that could have happened to this project and it was made in a very critical time period. It may have been undemocratic and against the /tg/station principles but it was a qualified decision taken in good faith. Perhaps it's the cynic in me speaking but if it was decided by the /tg/ admin team and Rohesie wasn't the one chosen, yeah I'd go as far as to say that this project would die very quickly. Nervere has also been the most active of the three current headmins in helping out - he's still the only one in our Discord and he's available and glad to help at any time. To me, Nervere is a man that can fulfill his promises, and I don't say this easily, there's 6 months of his actions backing it up.
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Yodeler » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:25 pm #480462

I voted for you last time but I don't plan to this time.

My main problem is the enforcement of escalation. When the rules say "If you are the instigator in a conflict and end up killing or severely impairing the round of the person you are fighting, you should make a reasonable effort to return them to life at least once or make amends, only seeking round removal if they continue to pursue you. This protection doesn't apply to an instigator being killed." most people are going to expect that instigators have no protection from round removal ie. they can gib or space them. That part of escalation policy is clear enough that it's hard for me to see the intent as anything else, so I don't expect new players to realize how it is enforced. To be clear, I don't like this part of escalation policy, and while not perfect, the currently enforced version is better. However, I hate the idea of someone reading escalation policy, following it in good faith, and then getting banned for overescalation.

Since it seems like the headmins agreed to follow the new policy, why wasn't escalation policy on the rules page changed, even just to say that round removal isn't allowed?

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Malkraz » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:54 pm #480465

"I'm a retard who can't read fuck admin"
Franklin Khan says, " Well I know who I'm metagrudging from now on "
Istoprocent: You and Rock Steele definitely metabuddies, proving metacomms will take time but eventually people will figure it out.
Declan Cooper asks, " does rock steel have autism? "
Erik489: Malkraz, I gotta ask, and please be honest. Do you metacomm with Rock Steel?
Lumbermancer: also rock should be killed every round
Willy Willee says, " And he kept spam-tabling me, while his metafriend came over "
ATHATH: Rock Steel, I fucking hate you with a passion. I was alive on the station for less than a minute, you absolute cunt you CREMATING ASSHOLE I GENUINELY *HATE* YOU
Adam Karlsson says, " i just want rock " Shaun McFall says, " you know you'll get harshly punished for this right " Adam Karlsson says, " oh i know "
Aidan Duncan says, " Once again, Rock Steel is the fucking worst person on the station "
Twaticus: malk i hate you why do you ruin everything
Alijah Petrov says, " Actually then, im just gonna start robusting rock steel every time i see him "
Adolph Weinstein says, " I like how we have a wizard onboard, and the only person causing shit is Rock "
[Common] Most Likely Malfunction states, " BORG RETURN TO THE CLONEER AND ISPOSE OF ROCK STEELS BODY. "

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Nervere
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:41 am #480646

Yodeler wrote:I voted for you last time but I don't plan to this time.

My main problem is the enforcement of escalation. When the rules say "If you are the instigator in a conflict and end up killing or severely impairing the round of the person you are fighting, you should make a reasonable effort to return them to life at least once or make amends, only seeking round removal if they continue to pursue you. This protection doesn't apply to an instigator being killed." most people are going to expect that instigators have no protection from round removal ie. they can gib or space them. That part of escalation policy is clear enough that it's hard for me to see the intent as anything else, so I don't expect new players to realize how it is enforced. To be clear, I don't like this part of escalation policy, and while not perfect, the currently enforced version is better. However, I hate the idea of someone reading escalation policy, following it in good faith, and then getting banned for overescalation.

Since it seems like the headmins agreed to follow the new policy, why wasn't escalation policy on the rules page changed, even just to say that round removal isn't allowed?

It's difficult for me to answer this question because it's pretty vague.
Are you referring to a specific incident you're unhappy with? Or how you perceive enforcement is handled? Clarification will be nice.
If your concern is protection for instigators, though, you'll be happy to know that instigators in conflicts get far fewer protections than the victim, and in fact my stance is that people who start conflicts don't have the right to complain when they get dunked.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Yodeler » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:09 am #480661

My concerns were with the enforcement of escalation, like in these two appeals. (First, Second) My issue isn't with a specific case, its with people getting banned for removing someone from the round after the other person instigated the conflict. After reading them again, I can see you didn't post in either of these two appeals, and you ruled that the librarian spacing the scientist was justified in this appeal, so I'm not sure what your position is on this exact part of the rule. I still think that, even if no one could agree on a full rework of the escalation, the policy should have been modified to state that round removal was not allowed if that is what was going to be enforced.

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Nervere
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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Nervere » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:38 am #480669

I think the thread you linked about me overturning the ban for the curator who spaced a guy supports what I’ve said so far.
As for the first two threads you linked, I don’t think those are quite equivalent scenarios. While I believe that instigators should have less protections in escalation, this doesn’t mean they should have none. For example, the first thread you linked is someone cremating a person for taking a pair of gloves. That’s pretty ridiculous. The other thread is the same deal. It was fine to kill them, but cremation is way too far. Ideally I’d like instigators to have less protections, but this is how the policy is right now.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:10 am #480688

Good luck nervere

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby ishortjr33 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:52 pm #481296

Sternmin but fairmin.

I believe I used to be salty because of an interaction we had but then I took some time to think about it and one disagreement does not characterize you as an admin when the rest of the interactions have been overwhelmingly professional.
Would support.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Farquaar » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:13 am #481981

Congrats on the sequential term, my lad.

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Re: Nervere - Headmin Term 2: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:29 am #481985

We did it reddit!


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