DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Discuss policies and candidacies with the potential Headmins.

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Dax Dupont
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DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:58 am #509966

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Hi!

I'm running for the first time, after multiple people egged me on to do so over the last couple of years.

Who am I?
I've been around on one ckey or another since 2013. I've been an admin since may 30 2018. I have 165 merged PRs.
I've spent considerable time trying to improve the game, whether it's code or policy wise.
I'm also a huge freedom of speech advocate.

My Policies
Speedy resolution of ban appeals, admin complaints and policy threads.
Ban appeals will get resolved at max a week since last response. Same for admin complaints. Policy threads will stay open for a max of a month(to give the community plenty of time to make their case). This will also retroactively apply to any open threads.
Accountability and transparency.
Sometimes what admins do feels like a black box with no explanation of some actions being taken. What players don't realize is there's generally another black box within the black box which is #tgleads.
I will make the policy discussion between headmins public for at least admins, if that works well, to the public. Admins will also be held to higher standards. #tgsleads should not be used to discuss things other than what might damage a person's wellbeing(talking about doxing threats/sharing information about it/etc).
I'd also like a public ban/note log. It would help the community understand why some decisions were made because in ban appeals they often only see one side of the coin.
Freedom of speech.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

I will protect your freedom of speech. While targeted harassment won't be okay, I will prevent that from slipping into a broader net. Under my watch I will not tolerate overzealous word policing. We're not space Britain.
Reworking escalation policy.
Escalation as is, is horrible. I want to run several polls and request for comments so we can find a solution that is most in tune with the community.
Community involvement.
Polls will be used more frequently than just decreeing everything from up above. We're not gods, we're your representatives and democracy matters.
Getting better admin coverage
I'd like to prioritize acquiring and training admins who'll be available in the 'dead' times of the day. This way players won't be needing to beg on discord as often to get an admin on. I'm looking at you EU servers.

What can I do better?
I'm not flawless, I've heard the communities call for me to listen to your feedback better. I've been working on this for a long while, and I've learned to deal with your feedback better.

You matter, and so does the rest of community.
Last edited by Dax Dupont on Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.



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Arianya
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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Arianya » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:34 am #509982

Dax Dupont wrote:Speedy resolution of ban appeals, admin complaints and policy threads.
Ban appeals will get resolved at max a week since last response. Same for admin complaints. Policy threads will stay open for a max of a month(to give the community plenty of time to make their case). This will also retroactively apply to any open threads.


Without getting into specifics here, this is technically already the case in the rules for ban appeals. The only notable exceptions have come from a headmin being the banning admin. What is your plan if a headmin is violating the week timeline?

Accountability and transparency.
Sometimes what admins do feels like a black box with no explanation of some actions being taken. What players don't realize is there's generally another black box within the black box which is #tgleads.
I will make the policy discussion between headmins public for at least admins, if that works well, to the public. Admins will also be held to higher standards. #tgsleads should not be used to discuss things other than what might damage a person's wellbeing(talking about doxing threats/sharing information about it/etc).


Your fellow headmins don't agree with making policy discussion visible to admins, and continue to have these discussions in #headmin-bus/private. Would you feel hard done by this?

You note "Admins will also be held to higher standards" but you don't note what you mean specifically? What area do you feel admins are lacking in currently? What do you plan to do to better uphold the standards?

Regarding #tgs-leads, an admin is the subject of a admin complaint and your team believes they are in the wrong. You note some references to this having happened before, but there seems to be no specific information available. You want to ask previous headmins if they had any issue with this admin. What is your plan for this? To discuss it openly in #admin-bus where it may incite argument or drama long lay dormant? To PM every former headmin still around to see if they know anything?

As an addendum question, what exactly do you believe is discussed/happens in the "black box" of #tgs-leads?

Freedom of speech.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

I will protect your freedom of speech. While targeted harassment won't be okay, I will prevent that from slipping into a broader net. Under my watch I will not tolerate overzealous word policing. We're not space Britain.


Again, trying to avoid specific cases, but a notable recent case was about targeted harassment but there's sentiment among a certain class of community member that it's actually about freedom of speech.

Could you clarify which "direction" you think the community is headed towards currently? Do you believe that the server is on track and you just want to safe guard the future, or that there has been recent "overzealous word policing"?

Community involvement.
Polls will be used more frequently than just decreeing everything from up above. We're not gods, we're your representatives and democracy matters.


Could you be more clear what class of issues you plan to put to poll? Any policy discussion issue? New proposed rules? How do you plan to deal with it if you want to put something to poll but the other two headmins disagree and "decree from up above"?
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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:01 am #509987

Dax Dupont wrote:Speedy resolution of ban appeals, admin complaints and policy threads.
Ban appeals will get resolved at max a week since last response. Same for admin complaints. Policy threads will stay open for a max of a month(to give the community plenty of time to make their case). This will also retroactively apply to any open threads.


Without getting into specifics here, this is technically already the case in the rules for ban appeals. The only notable exceptions have come from a headmin being the banning admin. What is your plan if a headmin is violating the week timeline?
It maybe is but it isn't enforced.
Headmins shouldn't handle their own ban appeals.


Accountability and transparency.
Sometimes what admins do feels like a black box with no explanation of some actions being taken. What players don't realize is there's generally another black box within the black box which is #tgleads.
I will make the policy discussion between headmins public for at least admins, if that works well, to the public. Admins will also be held to higher standards. #tgsleads should not be used to discuss things other than what might damage a person's wellbeing(talking about doxing threats/sharing information about it/etc).


Your fellow headmins don't agree with making policy discussion visible to admins, and continue to have these discussions in #headmin-bus/private. Would you feel hard done by this?
I would be extremely annoyed. I don't think I'll be able to just do it anyways. I'll fight tooth and nail over it though.

You note "Admins will also be held to higher standards" but you don't note what you mean specifically? What area do you feel admins are lacking in currently? What do you plan to do to better uphold the standards?
I feel like admins often aren't held to the same standards as players when it comes to rule violations and what not. I would encourage more admin complaints about such things happening. Also button spam needs to calm the fuck down
Regarding #tgs-leads, an admin is the subject of a admin complaint and your team believes they are in the wrong. You note some references to this having happened before, but there seems to be no specific information available. You want to ask previous headmins if they had any issue with this admin. What is your plan for this? To discuss it openly in #admin-bus where it may incite argument or drama long lay dormant? To PM every former headmin still around to see if they know anything?
If they are still in admin-bus, use admin-bus. People have the right to know even if it spurs drama or argument. If it impedes someone from speaking openly I'd be okay with a private PM/tgs-leads as it falls under my purview of 'can damage a person's wellbeing'

As an addendum question, what exactly do you believe is discussed/happens in the "black box" of #tgs-leads?
Policy changes, ban appeals and what not. The problem is, I can't tell!

Freedom of speech.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

I will protect your freedom of speech. While targeted harassment won't be okay, I will prevent that from slipping into a broader net. Under my watch I will not tolerate overzealous word policing. We're not space Britain.


Again, trying to avoid specific cases, but a notable recent case was about targeted harassment but there's sentiment among a certain class of community member that it's actually about freedom of speech.
It was clear targeted harassment in my opinion.

Could you clarify which "direction" you think the community is headed towards currently? Do you believe that the server is on track and you just want to safe guard the future, or that there has been recent "overzealous word policing"?
I feel many of the nu-admins feel like we should restrict the usage of slurs in general. I've even heard someone advocate against using ligger. It seems it's a more recent thing as a result of the evergoing polarization of the political spectrum. Though as a whole I don't see many bad incidents, yet.

Community involvement.
Polls will be used more frequently than just decreeing everything from up above. We're not gods, we're your representatives and democracy matters.


Could you be more clear what class of issues you plan to put to poll? Any policy discussion issue? New proposed rules? How do you plan to deal with it if you want to put something to poll but the other two headmins disagree and "decree from up above"?
I will run the poll regardless, if they choose to ignore it I'll do anything in my power to argue for the community's voice. It will also be made very clear that the other headmins have chosen to ignore the vox populi. Issues I'd like to pull are indeed rule changes, policy discussions unless they are really minor or already de facto established. There is no harm in running multiple polls at once and it requires little set up.
Last edited by Dax Dupont on Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby terranaut » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:04 am #509988

Dax Dupont wrote:Headmins shouldn't handle their own ban appeals.


Why not? It generally is the banning admin who handles the appeal, and in case of issues a higher ranking instance.
There's no instance above the headmins.
Who do you propose would handle it?

I like your platform and emphasis on being player representatives and not player police
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Dax Dupont
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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:06 am #509989

terranaut wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:Headmins shouldn't handle their own ban appeals.


Why not? It generally is the banning admin who handles the appeal, and in case of issues a higher ranking instance.
There's no instance above the headmins.
Who do you propose would handle it?

I like your platform and emphasis on being player representatives and not player police


Another headmin. We don't allow regular admins to have the final say in case there's an issue due to the emotional attachment and other policy related issues.

What's the harm in letting the headmin handle it it like a regular admin and have another headmin be able to overrule it? This way we make sure it isn't personal, has oversight and additionally allow for speedier resolutions.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Farquaar » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 pm #510054

Dax Dupont wrote:Again, trying to avoid specific cases, but a notable recent case was about targeted harassment but there's sentiment among a certain class of community member that it's actually about freedom of speech.
It was clear targeted harassment in my opinion.

A relevant question then: How would you define harassment? Obviously, every case is different, but I'd like to know your view on what makes a series of insults directed at one person different from targeted harassment (Avoiding reference to specific cases).

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Jimmius » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:27 pm #510055

Dax Dupont wrote:The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

who are the patriots and tyrants in this case, and what is the blood a metaphor for

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:47 pm #510059

Farquaar wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:Again, trying to avoid specific cases, but a notable recent case was about targeted harassment but there's sentiment among a certain class of community member that it's actually about freedom of speech.
It was clear targeted harassment in my opinion.

A relevant question then: How would you define harassment? Obviously, every case is different, but I'd like to know your view on what makes a series of insults directed at one person different from targeted harassment (Avoiding reference to specific cases).

An argument would be fine, hounding someone over and over is not, especially if it involves deeply personal things.

Telling someone that they should kill themselves, especially if they are known to be suicidal would be targeted harassment.
Calling someone a faggot because they are in salty baby mode because they got ganked is not.
It's very case by case.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:48 pm #510060

Jimmius wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

who are the patriots and tyrants in this case, and what is the blood a metaphor for

Jefferson would be able to answer that one better but in ss13 terms I'd go with mimes and clowns.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Reeeee » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:31 pm #510140

I have flipped my shit and am now angry as fuck.

Raises too many points of discussion to be a valid candidate for all, leading to shouting matches between admemes in the long run and apparently aims to inflame them anyway for purposes of spaceman atmos autism simulator.
Escalation rework, lel.


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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:40 am #510259

Way too quick to shout their opinion on any given topic and then lash out at anybody who disagrees. Not a bad dude but a drama bomb for sure and I don't see the inevitable shouting matches leading to very much in terms of productivity or fun. If they mellow out I might vote for them in a few election cycles since you can see that they clearly think a lot about the game, but they're presently just too aggressive and quick to be stubborn.
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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby John_Gobbel » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:21 am #510308

Feel free to discount this as rumor but I've heard from a number of people that you personally involve yourself in bans related to your character in-game to the extent that some people have accused you of purposefully ban-baiting players. As you've said here:

Dax Dupont wrote:I feel like admins often aren't held to the same standards as players when it comes to rule violations and what not. I would encourage more admin complaints about such things happening.


If you feel like this relates to you, what are the circumstances? Why do you think some people would come to the conclusion that you or others participate in this behavior? Is there anything you want to say to affirm and assuage or deny these claims?

Since I've heard these things I think it's important to give you the opportunity to address them.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Arianya » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:26 am #510311

Dax Dupont wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:I will run the poll regardless, if they choose to ignore it I'll do anything in my power to argue for the community's voice. It will also be made very clear that the other headmins have chosen to ignore the vox populi. Issues I'd like to pull are indeed rule changes, policy discussions unless they are really minor or already de facto established. There is no harm in running multiple polls at once and it requires little set up.


I would be VERY careful with this line of thinking - most headmins only run one term and 2 headmins are enough to effectively block all your headmin actions, short of MSO intervening (which is highly unlikely). Taking this kind of "fuck you, fight me" attitude to the other headmin's views is a very short road that leads to everyone involved being frustrated. No one wants to be on a team with a rabblerouser who is intentionally kicking up shit because they're not getting their way. There is a reason we elect a headmin team and not a single headmin.

Policy changes, ban appeals and what not. The problem is, I can't tell!


While I can happily tell you that you're 0/2 on that point, I'd rather focus on the latter. Why is that a problem? The average player doesn't get to see what's going on in #admin-bus, nor in #headminbus (which no one other then MSO and the headmins can see) - are you advocating perfect transparency? And if not why is it important that you (presuming you don't win the election) as a Game Admin should be able to see #tgsleads? Why not #keyholders? You have no real idea what's discussed in there, and by the same logic #keyholders might be where discussion of policy changes take place.

It maybe is but it isn't enforced.
Headmins shouldn't handle their own ban appeals.


I think you've misunderstood my point - a headmin is refusing to respond at all to their ban appeal. As a fellow headmin you can't overrule their ban with just one vote, so you would have to get the other headmin on board to do so - are you going to do that if they take longer then a week?

And when you talk about the rule that exists but maybe isn't enforced, that rule presumes any ban appeal that sits a week will be resolved (i.e. no action'd) after a week - are you suggesting enforcing that stringently?
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Dax Dupont
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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:42 pm #510405

Yes and no, it should be resolved if it doesn't require headmin input on the ban or should have an headmin reply.

I think there shouldn't be a vote needed to override a headmin acting as an admin (ie:they just banned someone, it's not a offical headmin started but a unilateral ban).

If other headmins would cordon sanitaire me, it would be made public that they are and the people will be able to decide and complain if they wish so.

It's not a fight me attitude, but I will make good on my promises and will give the players more insight and direct control. If anything it creates less arguing over policy in general because it leads to a good baseline to start discussion from. The communities will is a golden thread.

There is nothing aside from threats to people or the security of the server that shouldnt be at least public to the admins.

Policy discussion between headmins should be public to all players.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:54 pm #510412

PKPenguin321 wrote:Way too quick to shout their opinion on any given topic and then lash out at anybody who disagrees. Not a bad dude but a drama bomb for sure and I don't see the inevitable shouting matches leading to very much in terms of productivity or fun. If they mellow out I might vote for them in a few election cycles since you can see that they clearly think a lot about the game, but they're presently just too aggressive and quick to be stubborn.

I do tackle issues hard, especially when people need to be held accountable to their actions.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:04 pm #510415

John_Gobbel wrote:Feel free to discount this as rumor but I've heard from a number of people that you personally involve yourself in bans related to your character in-game to the extent that some people have accused you of purposefully ban-baiting players. As you've said here:

Dax Dupont wrote:I feel like admins often aren't held to the same standards as players when it comes to rule violations and what not. I would encourage more admin complaints about such things happening.


If you feel like this relates to you, what are the circumstances? Why do you think some people would come to the conclusion that you or others participate in this behavior? Is there anything you want to say to affirm and assuage or deny these claims?

Since I've heard these things I think it's important to give you the opportunity to address them.

I don't banbait purposely no, it probably has happened accidentally once because sometimes situations get heated and you think you're right to smash that ahelp button. I doubt you'll find a long time player who hasn't let a heated situation affect them once or twice.

I don't handle tickets involving me, even simple things like asking to be deantagged/taken over by a ghost as a head to go afk

I've argued about a bad handling by nervere on discord before, but everyone agreed with it. Even nervere apologized. But that was because he closed the ticket and logged off, it's the same thing players do in discord.

Aside from that, I have pointed to avenues that an admin should check out in my tickets. Like check the prints on x and y. With inexperienced admins that don't know the tools as well.

Admins are free to make their own rulings and I can't change their decision. Additionally, I've pinged the supportmin role when tickets popped up against me to make sure they get handled since Terry often only had me as an admin. While it's normally up to the ahelper to do so.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby lmwevil » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:07 am #510576

Dax Dupont wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:Way too quick to shout their opinion on any given topic and then lash out at anybody who disagrees. Not a bad dude but a drama bomb for sure and I don't see the inevitable shouting matches leading to very much in terms of productivity or fun. If they mellow out I might vote for them in a few election cycles since you can see that they clearly think a lot about the game, but they're presently just too aggressive and quick to be stubborn.

I do tackle issues hard, especially when people need to be held accountable to their actions.


unfortunately that's just the problem, you don't actually see the problem of just how your inane focus on a certain topic becomes and how much you personally attack those on the team who try and argue against you. i think you genuinely care and i respect that, but you need to mellow out

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 am #510664

lmwevil wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:Way too quick to shout their opinion on any given topic and then lash out at anybody who disagrees. Not a bad dude but a drama bomb for sure and I don't see the inevitable shouting matches leading to very much in terms of productivity or fun. If they mellow out I might vote for them in a few election cycles since you can see that they clearly think a lot about the game, but they're presently just too aggressive and quick to be stubborn.

I do tackle issues hard, especially when people need to be held accountable to their actions.


unfortunately that's just the problem, you don't actually see the problem of just how your inane focus on a certain topic becomes and how much you personally attack those on the team who try and argue against you. i think you genuinely care and i respect that, but you need to mellow out

You saw it as a personal attack and that I was wrong. Then the headmins told you that you were wrong. You instantly started with dismissing my concerns because you deemed it personal for some reason. Imsxz for instance blamed an unrelated player.

I'm arguably passionate about the community and I will be straightforward when people do things that negatively affect said community. Sure, I could probably work on my wording.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby MortoSasye » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:24 pm #511621

Hello, I’m interested in your views regarding harassment, so I have a simple hypothetical scenario for you in which a player is being harassed:

Player C killed player D during round X. D got so mad at C that they have been insulting them across rounds, and even when out of in game they use each opportunity they see to drive them out. For example, C is hanging out in the public VC and D suddenly joins to start trying to drive C out and alienate them.

Eventually, D discovers C is a person of color, so they start using discriminatory slurs against them to hurt them even further. This leads to C leaving the community.


What would you do in this case? Which player do you think is at fault?
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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby Dax Dupont » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:29 pm #511622

MortoSasye wrote:Hello, I’m interested in your views regarding harassment, so I have a simple hypothetical scenario for you in which a player is being harassed:

Player C killed player D during round X. D got so mad at C that they have been insulting them across rounds, and even when out of in game they use each opportunity they see to drive them out. For example, C is hanging out in the public VC and D suddenly joins to start trying to drive C out and alienate them.

Eventually, D discovers C is a person of color, so they start using discriminatory slurs against them to hurt them even further. This leads to C leaving the community.


What would you do in this case? Which player do you think is at fault?


Eventually, D discovers C is a person of color, so they start using discriminatory slurs against them to hurt them even further. This leads to C leaving the community.

That part isn't relevant my decision to ban someone happens at the point where they're repeatedly haunting someone over and over. Whether slurs are used is honestly irrelevant. I don't even factor much as modifier.

I clearly mentioned the fact that there's a difference between sporadic/isolated incidents and constant harassment. That's where it crosses the line.

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Re: DaxYeen - The Tree Of Liberty

Postby MortoSasye » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:34 pm #511625

Dax Dupont wrote:
MortoSasye wrote:Hello, I’m interested in your views regarding harassment, so I have a simple hypothetical scenario for you in which a player is being harassed:

Player C killed player D during round X. D got so mad at C that they have been insulting them across rounds, and even when out of in game they use each opportunity they see to drive them out. For example, C is hanging out in the public VC and D suddenly joins to start trying to drive C out and alienate them.

Eventually, D discovers C is a person of color, so they start using discriminatory slurs against them to hurt them even further. This leads to C leaving the community.


What would you do in this case? Which player do you think is at fault?


Eventually, D discovers C is a person of color, so they start using discriminatory slurs against them to hurt them even further. This leads to C leaving the community.

That part isn't relevant my decision to ban someone happens at the point where they're repeatedly haunting someone over and over. Whether slurs are used is honestly irrelevant. I don't even factor much as modifier.

I clearly mentioned the fact that there's a difference between sporadic/isolated incidents and constant harassment. That's where it crosses the line.


Thanks for your reply
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