A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Discuss policies and candidacies with the potential Headmins.

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Stickymayhem
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A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:51 am #573250

I'm happy to start this off by saying this is the least bad headmin triumvirate we've had in probably two or three years. Normally I feel the need to run because the existing administration makes my brain hurt but this is not the case this time round, and I do not intend to be everyone's first choice. I want to offer some alternative and possibly unpopular ideas to gauge interest from the community and give you some policies to vote for that may not be represented elsewhere. I will summarise these policies in a Tl;DR in the end.

Here's what I care about:

Terry and Low Rules
Spoiler:
You thought I was going to put Manuel here HUH? Well I've developed a deep love for Terry and what it has the potential to be. I've been playing and adminning there nearly daily for the last couple of months and I think I understand the culture, but more importantly understand how it should be developed. The good news is that it seems to be a matter of enforcement, and I believe I and a couple of other Terry-regular admins have already begun to improve the situation. But you know what? There is a solid community of Terry players that don't want this moderation. I see a culture of players who refuse to ahelp rule-breaking behaviour, who want to fuck around and break shit and each other, and who hate admin intervention in nearly all forms. The natural response to this is to throw these people in the cremator, but on second thought, isn't this itself a valid form of gameplay? Many years ago, when I was less of a boring banbot, I ran low rule rounds, where escalation was essentially removed, and the rounds were anarchy. And you know what? A kind of IC code developed, with the greytide and security balancing each other with extreme violence and threats, and it kind of worked and resulted in some wonderful rounds. So here's my proposal: Event Hall is a ghost town, we make it a low rule server. This does not mean low RP, this means low rules. To explain this, I expect more violence, more greytiding, and brutal security and command teams, but IC dialogue should remain effectively the same as Terry. I hope this will give the Terry players who don't agree with this kind of administration room to do what they want, and the rest of the community a palette cleanse server that may reduce the feeling to some that the primary joy in this game is rolling antag.


Manuel and Server-specific bans
Spoiler:
Manuel is wonderful, I think it's a great step towards widening our scope and it sets the precedent for a low rule server as well. That said, I think we're already brushing up against the idea that different people can want different things and this shouldn't necessarily exclude them from the entire community. I'd like to declare support for the implementation of server specific bans if possible. This is of course in part a code issue so I can't guarantee any kind of implementation from the code side, but I'll support it and keep it a topic for discussion.


Events and Player Events
Spoiler:
I still believe events to be the lifeblood of the server and what gives this game longevity. I will continue to support large-scale events, I will, as in every campaign, attempt to build an active event workshop and community involving the collaboration of players and admins. This has already seen some progress and I'd love to formalise it and give creative members of our community an opportunity to grow. When I was a player I dreamed of running cool shit for people and I want a lot more people with a lot more ideas to enjoy that.


Bigotry in OOC
Spoiler:
I am pleased that this topic is being addressed by other candidates, I was worried I'd be the only one offering it. I intend to ban OOC bigotry from the servers and discord. It is important that as the community matures, we have an environment where everyone can play a video game enjoyably. If you do this ironically, then there are places to do that and the behaviour is indistinguishable from real bigotry in the same way that ironic Rule 8 violations are indistinguishable from unironic ones. If you do this unironically, then there are a thousand and one other places on the internet to discuss this. As a reward for removing your gamer words, I will put down my carrot shiv and never discuss veganism in server OOC ever again, no matter the bait


Activity and Burn-out
Spoiler:
I have the luck of permanently working from home, in an uninteresting well paid job where I have to do very little actual work, so I've been able to be extremely active, and can continue to do so. There isn't much danger of me burning out since I've been here for over 7 years.


Delegation and Resolving Appeals and Complaints
Spoiler:
The only critical mistake I believe this current administration to have made is believing they have the correct answer to everything and making themselves the only ones who can solve problems. I believe in general, they do have the correct answer to almost all situations that came up, but they needed to delegate to prevent the extreme slowdown in handling the usual issues of a headmin term. I would distribute more authority to admins to make their own decisions. This may be done through formalising a route to gamemaster and allowing game masters, or certain game masters, to assist in dealing with appeals. We have a fantastic well of experience and a growing playerbase, with often 15-20 appeals every week or two, and 3-5 complaints. We need to delegate beyond the headmin triumvirate. Headmins aren't lazy, they're overwhelmed, and need to begin delegating.


Game Master and a path to it for Non-Headmins
Spoiler:
We have, in the past, made extremely experienced admins, on rare occasion, into game masters. I would be open to considering formalising a difficult, but achievable process for this to allow some of our longstanding most dedicated admins to be considered for these roles. It is more of a title change, but does also enable admin training and may also get some delegated responsibilities in the future such as the handling of ban appeals to speed up this process. I think it is a little unfair that just because some admins aren't as disgustingly power hungry as the rest of us, they don't get the same recognition.


TL;DR
  • Continue to improve Terry as I and other admins have been doing, but turn event hall into a low rule server to mirror Manuel (Not Low-Rp, just low rules, e.g massively reduced escalation etc.)
  • I support server specific bans as acknowledgement that the difference between servers and rulesets is increasing. These would apply to Manuel, The Low Rule server and Regular Ruleset Servers.
  • Events are great, and I will formalise a process to allow creative players to run events, which has been happening ad hoc for a while now.
  • OOC bigotry needs to end, both in discord and OOC.
  • I am active at the moment, and will continue to be due to convenient life circumstances
  • I will delegate more, as I believe the current headmin team has been overwhelmed by the increased overall server population and their decision to centralise decision-making within themselves. This will improve ban appeal and complaint resolution times, without being just a promise of "We'll do it faster we swear"
  • A path to Game Master will be formalised, allowing some of our most dedicated admins to help the server in a greater capacity through this delegation, without having to want a headmin term.

Spoiler:
dog is bad
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Timonk » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:59 am #573255

what do you think of "monkey pen" bagil? isnt that kinda low rules already?
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




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Stickymayhem
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:10 am #573262

Timonk wrote:what do you think of "monkey pen" bagil? isnt that kinda low rules already?


It is occasionally low rule, but frankly that's due to enforcement and not design, at any point a banbot could start purging bagil according to our ruleset there.

We'll see, if enough people in a particular server want a low rule version of the game to act more antagonistically in then it may very well be that server we implement it in, but I think at least to start we should do it on event hall so the players from both terry and bagil that have the most fun griefing can play together and see if they find it enjoyable longer term.

It's clear there's a style of gameplay we aren't fully catering to on both bagil and terry and I'd like to give those players a place to do what they want more frequently.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Rohesie » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:14 pm #573281

This is suspiciously a good platform. What's the catch?

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Timonk » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:18 pm #573283

the catch is sticky
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




The hut has perished at my hands.
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The pink arrow is always right.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby WineAllWine » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:24 pm #573284

Stickymayhem wrote:dog is bad


Damn I was supporting until this. You can't end a post on such a controversial opinion

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Stickymayhem
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:01 pm #573286

Rohesie wrote:This is suspiciously a good platform. What's the catch?


The good news is the catch is obvious

the bad news is the catch is obvious
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby terranaut » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:11 pm #573288

Rohesie wrote:This is suspiciously a good platform. What's the catch?


The catch is the guy on the soapbox. He runs every term with a different platform and it becomes increasingly difficult to believe it. I remember Sticky speaking about how much he hates Terry not too long ago.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:29 pm #573291

terranaut wrote:
Rohesie wrote:This is suspiciously a good platform. What's the catch?


The catch is the guy on the soapbox. He runs every term with a different platform and it becomes increasingly difficult to believe it. I remember Sticky speaking about how much he hates Terry not too long ago.


This is the first time my platform has changed significantly in the last three or so years, because the headmin team has done a good job and I feel we can progress further and we can solve higher level problems now that a great solid foundation has been laid. It's not detrimental in any way to change platforms, my ideals have not changed.

I have no history of lying about the implementation of a headmin platform, during both my terms I implemented my whole platform in some form or another. It didn't all succeed, but it was attempted.

I joke about hating every server. Terry is my most played and most adminned server, I enjoy playing there and I want to maintain both kinds of playstyle with a low ruleset server to cater to that need and hopefully give the people who want to play a more antagonistic kind of game a place to do so fairly and without heavy admin intervention.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby terranaut » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:53 pm #573296

Your response to being criticized is seeking out the person doing so and personally attacking them in a seperate, public form in an attempt to ridicule them, while formulating a nice yet empty reply here. If that's not "political flip-flopping", I'm not sure what it is, or what your intent is.
Do you always deal with critique in this way?

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:58 pm #573299

terranaut wrote:Your response to being criticized is seeking out the person doing so and personally attacking them in a seperate, public form in an attempt to ridicule them, while formulating a nice yet empty reply here. If that's not "political flip-flopping", I'm not sure what it is, or what your intent is.
Do you always deal with critique in this way?

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Yeah you can be right and make fun of someone for being silly at the same time this is not a new concept
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:18 pm #573301

Creating a server where there are barely any rules seems like the last thing tg needs right now. MRP is still in growing pains and it doesn’t make sense to try and cater to the opposite side of the spectrum. You’re just gonna create hippie lite and attract questionable players, causing even more of a rift to grow in our playerbase.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:23 pm #573304

wesoda25 wrote:Creating a server where there are barely any rules seems like the last thing tg needs right now. MRP is still in growing pains and it doesn’t make sense to try and cater to the opposite side of the spectrum. You’re just gonna create hippie lite and attract questionable players, causing even more of a rift to grow in our playerbase.


That's a fair concern, I think given that we are offering a variety of experience already, and there are a contingent of players on both the high pop servers that dislike administrative intervention, it'd be beneficial to cater to them, as well as giving people a place to enjoy the more antagonistic side of the game while being in a population that actually desires that. Would you never join that server to blow off some steam?

What makes those players questionable? If they want to enjoy a more laissez-faire experience they can do so. Roleplay rules will be upheld, my stance on bigotry won't differ, so where do these questionable players come from? Just interested in understanding where you're coming from.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:08 pm #573306

TG's rules regarding escalation and tiding, and how they're enforced, are far from stringent as is, I do not understand the need or benefit of a server with even looser standards.

Stickymayhem wrote:...I think given that we are offering a variety of experience already, and there are a contingent of players on both the high pop servers that dislike administrative intervention, it'd be beneficial to cater to them, as well as giving people a place to enjoy the more antagonistic side of the game while being in a population that actually desires that. Would you never join that server to blow off some steam?

This isn't a revolutionary idea and you are describing turning event hall back into what it used to be for the better part of a year; a lawless hellhole admins rarely set foot in.
Looking back, my perception of how that worked out was not that it functioned very well as a containment server or stress relief tool, but that it created a lot of shitty awful players that inevitably migrated over to the other servers to cause issues, much like LRP players moving to Manuel.

Why should TG "cater" to people who do not like to follow the rules? To imply they're owed something is very odd, and I don't understand in what universe the proper response is anything but showing them the door.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby NecromancerAnne » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:52 pm #573311

To focus in on the low rule server specifically, I'd honestly caution such an idea massively. In some ways, low rules can result in the perception we might be attempting to draw in stragglers from a certain server who haven't already turned up on our servers already. While that'll definitely result in a massive bleed off of those specific kinds of players that might prove problematic on our mainstay servers, I kind of already believe we've stretched our playerbase massively thin with our 6 possible servers currently running concurrently, with only three actually ever seeing significant player counts at a given time.

Quite honestly, I'd prefer integration before trying to trick players into just...going somewhere else. Simply so we can keep a consistent quality to our server base.

Manual specific bans is honestly a weird suggestion to me, since I much prefer having that global server ban being a deterrence from the main reason we've not moved already towards implementing server specific bans. Tourist griefers hopping from Bagil/Terry to Manuel just to fuck with people, because it's no different to a ban from some other server entirely. Since they'll just jump back over to their main server, it's as though nothing happened and they just keep playing the game as normal I would much prefer a policy of banning half as long (minimum 1 day) as the Manuel ban on the other servers simply so we can keep that deterrence without it being too heavy handed.

PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:07 pm.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:18 pm #573319

As someone who adminned on event hall regularly I completely disagree. It was full of new players who were appreciative of the game, creative and generally good natured. With every rush of new players there are some who just want to grief.

We currently have a significant number of players that want something different, so far we are "showing them the door" but if there's a group of people that want something different, why shouldn't we listen to a portion of the playerbase? Just because you like fighting more doesn't make you a less valid member of the community.
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PostThis post was deleted by Stickymayhem on Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:26 pm.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:34 pm #573325

NecromancerAnne wrote:To focus in on the low rule server specifically, I'd honestly caution such an idea massively. In some ways, low rules can result in the perception we might be attempting to draw in stragglers from a certain server who haven't already turned up on our servers already. While that'll definitely result in a massive bleed off of those specific kinds of players that might prove problematic on our mainstay servers, I kind of already believe we've stretched our playerbase massively thin with our 6 possible servers currently running concurrently, with only three actually ever seeing significant player counts at a given time.

Quite honestly, I'd prefer integration before trying to trick players into just...going somewhere else. Simply so we can keep a consistent quality to our server base.

Manual specific bans is honestly a weird suggestion to me, since I much prefer having that global server ban being a deterrence from the main reason we've not moved already towards implementing server specific bans. Tourist griefers hopping from Bagil/Terry to Manuel just to fuck with people, because it's no different to a ban from some other server entirely. Since they'll just jump back over to their main server, it's as though nothing happened and they just keep playing the game as normal I would much prefer a policy of banning half as long (minimum 1 day) as the Manuel ban on the other servers simply so we can keep that deterrence without it being too heavy handed.


We have a larger playerbase than ever with multiple significant groups of people wanting different things. I'm not trying to trick players into going somewhere else, I'm being more honest with them rather than trying to snap them into another shape under threat of banning. There is a clear population who wants something a bit different, with more IC handling of issues, less admin intervention and relaxed escalation. Why not give the people what they want? I don't agree with the premise that these people are low quality just because they want something different. I experimented with relaxed rulesets all the way back in my original headmin terms and the results were positive.

To be clear, not all bans will be server specific. The norm will be to ban people from all servers, but at admin discretion ruleset specific bans may be appropriate. That said, the idea of a longer bans on manuel with shorter mirrored bans on the other servers is a good idea and I'm happy to adopt it. Thanks.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby NecromancerAnne » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:40 pm #573326

Maybe the suggestion of them being low quality is some of my own bias bleeding in there. If you think that'll help keep player retention, That's cool and dandy.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:55 pm #573328

TG's rules currently more or less boil down to, in the majority of instances, "don't kill people for absolutely no reason, just piss them off first by stealing something or shoving them incessantly until they fight back, then kill them and feel free to loot the rest of their stuff while you're at it". If you think I'm being overly reductive in this paraphrasing, feel free to call me full of shit, but I think this is the general endgame of escalation.
And, supposedly, egregious tiding falls under rule 1 but ban appeals regarding this are about as commonly seen as are flying pigs.

We're I running for headmin I think I'd be pretty comfortable going on record as saying that if you don't enjoy playing under the bare minimum of the above, you're a low quality player that the server shouldn't keep around, but if you feel to the contrary I at least appreciate your honesty on that.

What would this "low rules" ruleset look like, specifically? What rules would you discard or change, what would you change them to, and/or how would you change how they're enforced?
Per your OP and mentioning removing escalation, would it be as simple as allowing everyone to act like an antag but still disallowing things like ERP, harassment, spam, exploiting, etc?

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:10 pm #573332

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:TG's rules currently more or less boil down to, in the majority of instances, "don't kill people for absolutely no reason, just piss them off first by stealing something or shoving them incessantly until they fight back, then kill them and feel free to loot the rest of their stuff while you're at it". If you think I'm being overly reductive in this paraphrasing, feel free to call me full of shit, but I think this is the general endgame of escalation.
And, supposedly, egregious tiding falls under rule 1 but ban appeals regarding this are about as commonly seen as are flying pigs.

We're I running for headmin I think I'd be pretty comfortable going on record as saying that if you don't enjoy playing under the bare minimum of the above, you're a low quality player that the server shouldn't keep around, but if you feel to the contrary I at least appreciate your honesty on that.

What would this "low rules" ruleset look like, specifically? What rules would you discard or change, what would you change them to, and/or how would you change how they're enforced?
Per your OP and mentioning removing escalation, would it be as simple as allowing everyone to act like an antag but still disallowing things like ERP, harassment, spam, exploiting, etc?


I agree with your interpretation with the issues on escalation, and I feel this is borne of a conflict in playstyle between these so called lower quality players, and our "classic" tg playerbase. A small amount of grief adds some conflict to a round, but I see much more of this than I'd like in general. I think creating a safe space to enjoy this chaotic environment would both improve the existing servers, cater to this new playerbase we've attracted and also give us all somewhere to blow off some steam. I think it would be nice to have a place where you can act nearly antagonistically without having to wait for your antag roll, and it may improve the situation we have where many players just want to roll assistant, go for antag and if they don't get it they self antag or get themselves killed instead.

If we create this kind of environment, I believe we can comfortably enforce the classic tg experience more effectively on the classic servers.

As long as players are reasonable OOC, I have no problem giving them an environment where they can let loose IC. It's a matter of perspective in my opinion, and our current solution of having them bring the classic tg experience closer to anarchy against the apparent wishes of a majority of the playerbase is not a great one. It's difficult to ban that many people and at a certain point, it may be reasonable to give them space to play here too, especially with the precedent of manuel and different rulesets being established.

My ruleset would remove escalation and encourage IC enforcement and cooperation. Silicons still have to follow laws, as you said the core rules like OOC in IC, ERP, harassment, spam etc would still be illegal, it's more about conflict and violence. Murderboning for non antagonists would still be restricted, but barring that and some minor security policy (focused primarily on discouraging security on security violence and little else) you can attack who you want. The game has systems in place to account for this. Greytide is measured by security and AI, but the more violent security gets the less cooperative the silicons are, and security can be overwhelmed by numbers. The result is a tenuous but stable balance. I may request permission from the headmins to run some low ruleset rounds somewhere to see how it goes, but it was really enjoyable. Security are forced to patrol in twos because the station is so dangerous, but they can deal out extreme violence to shitters. It's a fun balance and each round devolves into a different kind of chaos. Players become the enforcers of stability.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:20 pm #573333

Thank you for clarifying.

Have you considered the possibility that people who enjoy playing in such a way would not necessarily enjoy being surrounded exclusively by other people who play in such a way?
Have you considered things may be quite to the contrary?

Are you ultimately sure that what you see is some huge section of the playerbase yearning freedom to goof around with other robust troublemakers, and not simply people who find find the most "fun" ultimately from ruining other people's fun?
Wolves may not really have that much fun in the end, if there are no sheep around.

I remain skeptical your proposal here would change much of anything, especially that it would for the better.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:24 pm #573334

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:Thank you for clarifying.

Have you considered the possibility that people who enjoy playing in such a way would not necessarily enjoy being surrounded exclusively by other people who play in such a way?
Have you considered things may be quite to the contrary?

Are you ultimately sure that what you see is some huge section of the playerbase yearning freedom to goof around with other robust troublemakers, and not simply people who find find the most "fun" ultimately from ruining other people's fun?
Wolves may not really have that much fun in the end, if there are no sheep around.

I remain skeptical your proposal here would change much of anything, especially that it would for the better.


From my observations of Terry, although the nature of being less concerned with the rules means there is more frequent collateral damage to people not involved in this population, I've noticed that they most frequently fuck with each other. There is a solid population of active players who seek each other out, fuck with each other at every opportunity, but refuse to ahelp or even answer questions about rule breaches with each other.

I agree that there may be those that just enjoy victimizing others, and that is a specific group of people who absolutely should be banned, but I'm convinced the majority just want a different flavour of /tg/ with more action and less admin intervention. I have yet to see a compelling argument that providing that space would be a negative, and I think it would actually improve the behaviour on the other servers by providing a release. I'm sure I would visit to blow off some steam, and I think others would too.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:39 pm #573335

If the self-admitted focus of the low rules server is to provide a combat arena Lord of the Flies type thing for people who want that, what are your exceptions for positions like engineering or medical being occupied? If everyone is focused on fighting, do you expect it to attract much in the way of players who want to just keep things running and play a crucial job to an end that isn't powergaming a way to dab on people?
It is worth noting that Manuel has drained a fair amount of players like that, from the LRP servers.

LRP already has a fair few rounds that barely scrape past the 30 minute mark because medbay is deserted and the engine delammed or never got set up.
Would you say extremely chaotic and short rounds (even compared to LRP) would be fine to be the norm there?
And further, if yes, do you think people, interested in mutual combat as they may be, would find it enjoyable to engage in on a server with deserted infrastructure?

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:46 pm #573336

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:If the self-admitted focus of the low rules server is to provide a combat arena Lord of the Flies type thing for people who want that, what are your exceptions for positions like engineering or medical being occupied? If everyone is focused on fighting, do you expect it to attract much in the way of players who want to just keep things running and play a crucial job to an end that isn't powergaming a way to dab on people?
It is worth noting that Manuel has drained a fair amount of players like that, from the LRP servers.

LRP already has a fair few rounds that barely scrape past the 30 minute mark because medbay is deserted and the engine delammed or never got set up.
Would you say extremely chaotic and short rounds (even compared to LRP) would be fine to be the norm there?
And further, if yes, do you think people, interested in mutual combat as they may be, would find it enjoyable to engage on a server with deserted infrastructure?


From experiments in the past, infrastructure didn't collapse. If the rounds are shorter, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

Manuel drained the higher rp players, this would drain the lower rp players, resulting in three distinct experiences we can offer. I don't believe it will be as disastrous as you may think, but we're at a point of pure speculation now so I don't think we can know any more until some modern versions of my testing are run or we implement it. At the end of the day it's a novel idea that has no guarantee to be successful and I won't claim it's an absolute winner with no possibility of failure, but I think it's worth trying based on my experience, observations of the playerbase and historical prior attempts.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:57 pm #573337

If your position is that it's something you want to test out during your hypothetical term, that's fair.
I just don't think you can expect to see equivalency between tests done in the past on an already populated server that normally functions under normal rules, and a 24/7 uptime separate server devoted solely to that.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Timonk » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:23 pm #573340

can you ask randy to fork lifeweb for you but without the cp stuff and put low rules on there
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




The hut has perished at my hands.
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The pink arrow is always right.

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Stickymayhem
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:44 pm #573344

Timonk wrote:can you ask randy to fork lifeweb for you but without the cp stuff and put low rules on there


we're not animals
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:45 pm #573346

In spite of our occasional disagreements over the years, I still don't think there are many people that capture the spirit of the game like you do. Definitely a reliable pick for someone who cares about the game being fun first and foremost. The gamer word tradeoff is absolutely worth it as well
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Timonk » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:45 pm #573347

but your pfp is an animal
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




The hut has perished at my hands.
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The pink arrow is always right.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:56 pm #573348

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=27366&view=unread#p573294

What a good post
If you win headmin I want you to take this post and beat it over the head of every admin that makes a shitty excessive ban (almost always a perma when a temp ban would work) then goes to adminbus and says "haha look at this retard appealing a perma lol!"
This is something that should be common sense but we have some idiots on the admin team that can only be described as "admin-validhunters" who make bans for the sake of making bans, so it really is a huge relief to see someone with a brain approach this topic. Big ups
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i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Dopamiin » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:42 pm #573377

Hi! I'm a mostly Manuel player who occasionally hops servers for a bit of fun. I wanted to ask for you to talk a bit more about your server specific ban policy proposal, as I personally think it's a poor idea but would like to hear more on the matter.

Why do you think it is necessary to have separate server bans? What problem do you think it solves that blanket bans does not?

Would your new Event Hall also have separate bans?

If you're going to separate bans to different servers, do you believe that admins should also be similarly split?

Critics of ban splitting argue that it would potentially lead to intentional griefing on different tg servers that they do not play on, knowing they are not at risk on the server they like. Do you believe this has a chance to happen, and if so, what do you plan to do about it?

Could bans from one server influence a decision on another server? If so, how?

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer! Sorry this is kind of spammy. I like your platform in general, though!
hi i play on manuel as Flickswitch, Lyris DH, or Axilia Lucidia

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Misdoubtful » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:20 pm #573391

Stickymayhem wrote:Terry and Low Rules


While there are people questioning the why for a change to Event Hall I'm honestly stuck on this: What does lower RP involve for Event Hall, exactly? How much is more? What kind of game-play cycle could this create?

Stickymayhem wrote:Delegation and Resolving Appeals and Complaints


Is this solely intended for appeals, or are there other things planned for this?
Hugs

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:31 pm #573394

Dopamiin wrote:Hi! I'm a mostly Manuel player who occasionally hops servers for a bit of fun. I wanted to ask for you to talk a bit more about your server specific ban policy proposal, as I personally think it's a poor idea but would like to hear more on the matter.

Why do you think it is necessary to have separate server bans? What problem do you think it solves that blanket bans does not?

Would your new Event Hall also have separate bans?

If you're going to separate bans to different servers, do you believe that admins should also be similarly split?

Critics of ban splitting argue that it would potentially lead to intentional griefing on different tg servers that they do not play on, knowing they are not at risk on the server they like. Do you believe this has a chance to happen, and if so, what do you plan to do about it?

Could bans from one server influence a decision on another server? If so, how?

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer! Sorry this is kind of spammy. I like your platform in general, though!


I haven't seen the server hopping grief, so much as I've seen people come from other servers, misunderstand the MRP rules because they're new and not intuitive to someone who has played a great deal on the classic servers, and then they catch a ban across all servers.

I would not exclusively encourage the use of server specific bans, but they'd be a helpful option. I don't think they'd require an admin split because admins are expected to understand the server's ruleset before making rulings on it and they're experienced enough working with the rules, and rule changes, to deal with multiple rulesets.

My low ruleset server would also have server specific bans. I'd categorise them by ruleset, e.g. Manuel/Campbell, "Classic" and Low Rules.

If there is griefing, they'll be banned on all servers. It's not like that functionality will be unavailable, but necro made a good point about banning someone from MRP for say, two weeks, and the other servers for one week, a bit like a jobban.

I think all bans can be an influence, but it'll be case by case as per usual.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:33 pm #573395

Misdoubtful wrote:
Stickymayhem wrote:Terry and Low Rules


While there are people questioning the why for a change to Event Hall I'm honestly stuck on this: What does lower RP involve for Event Hall, exactly? How much is more? What kind of game-play cycle could this create?

Stickymayhem wrote:Delegation and Resolving Appeals and Complaints


Is this solely intended for appeals, or are there other things planned for this?


I explained my intent in an earlier post, but to re-iterate, I'd like a ruleset that removes escalation restrictions and allows for an IC balance with less admin intervention, allowing players to control the experience themselves. Maybe it'll be unplayable chaos, but I'm reasonably confident a balance between the opposing forces in the game (Greytide, Security, Silicon) should result in round stable enough to enjoy while being much more freeing than the other servers.

Given appeals are the highest volume of headmin work, this would be the place to start. I think it's reasonable for headmins to be able to deal with complaints but as we saw this term, with often a dozen appeals every week or two, things can fall behind and it's not necessarily just the burn out that's the problem. We have more players than ever, over a hundred admins, and yet still only three headmins. They need to begin delegating to experienced admins to be effective.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Space Panda » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:42 pm #573398

I really like what you propose but I don't fucking trust you stinky

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Qbopper » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:43 pm #573399

Stickymayhem wrote:
terranaut wrote:Your response to being criticized is seeking out the person doing so and personally attacking them in a seperate, public form in an attempt to ridicule them, while formulating a nice yet empty reply here. If that's not "political flip-flopping", I'm not sure what it is, or what your intent is.
Do you always deal with critique in this way?

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Yeah you can be right and make fun of someone for being silly at the same time this is not a new concept


this response is like, the opposite of reassuring
Limey wrote:its too late.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby oranges » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:06 pm #573416

terranaut wrote:Your response to being criticized is seeking out the person doing so and personally attacking them in a seperate, public form in an attempt to ridicule them, while formulating a nice yet empty reply here. If that's not "political flip-flopping", I'm not sure what it is, or what your intent is.
Do you always deal with critique in this way?

I did this too, because /tg/ is apparently living rent free in your head.

You got denied a position here, went to tmgc and apparently STILL have a massive stick up your ass about it.

I've never seen someone so incapable of moving on.

The only person more cringe than you with your opinions is swept, who keeps putting his 5 cents in despite barely playing here!

if either of you spent half of the time you do agenda posting here on helping out your servers, your servers would be absolutely thriving and striving.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Timonk » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:53 pm #573423

Stop oranges he said nice reply not a fucking murder
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




The hut has perished at my hands.
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The pink arrow is always right.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Armhulen » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:46 am #573460

Game masters know too much of sticky to make the mistake of voting for him but man that does make me want to move him up a lil bit
Go to bed bro, she's not thinking about you.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Countrygal68 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am #573465

Re: bans

What do you believe will be the long-term impact of server-specific bans?

How will you, as headmin, resolve player appeals based on the claim that a server-specific ban would've been more appropriate than a general ban? What is your paradigm for appropriate usage of specific bans?

re: delegation

You've proposed a formal process to promote admins to game master. What will this process entail?

Other than promoting individuals to game master, how will you delegate tasks and increase efficiency as headmin?

re: bigotry

I think what you are proposing is long overdue. Please elaborate on how you would enforce a ban on bigotry in OOC and Discord.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Qustinnus » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:30 am #573467

what stops you from doing this player event stuff now? literaly what would be different from you going from your current position to headmin? If anything I imagine you'd be able to spend less time on it if you became headmin.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:57 am #573520

Qustinnus wrote:what stops you from doing this player event stuff now? literaly what would be different from you going from your current position to headmin? If anything I imagine you'd be able to spend less time on it if you became headmin.


Not much, but I want to formalise the process and use the further mandate and reach of headmin to expand it to all servers. It's an explanation of what I care about and what I will put some of my focus towards.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Timonk » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:05 am #573532

Ah yes time to force admins to do events from my workshop so players know immediately what is going on
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




The hut has perished at my hands.
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The pink arrow is always right.

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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:10 am #573534

Timonk wrote:Ah yes time to force admins to do events from my workshop so players know immediately what is going on


I'm talking about larger scale events, generally involving maps. Myself and a few other admins have regularly run mapdrop events that have gone really well, but it'd be helpful to have a pool of people we could call on to serve as NPCs for example. Now the syndie base has syndicate scientists panicking trying to finish their secret project under fire instead of just a pile of simplemobs. Stuff like that. You can do it in game, kinda, but it's very hard to establish more complex roles in the short timeframe of event set-up in a round while everyone is waiting bored.
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Jin » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:48 am #573748

Hello stinkymayhem, I am in need of a chess partner and you seem like the perfect guy!!
if u play chess with me I will vote 4 u in da headmin election, chop chop jannie!!!
https://play.chess.com/hgLb

if u want u can also friend request and play with me anytime at https://chess.com/play/jincat0 :D :roll:
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Timonk » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:20 am #573771

He plays 4d chess instead of your plebian 2d chess
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




The hut has perished at my hands.
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The pink arrow is always right.

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Stickymayhem
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Stickymayhem » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:54 pm #573840

i do need to buy 5d chess it does look fun
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Re: A Vote for Sticky is a Vote for Anarchy

Postby Sylphet » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:02 am #573872

Stickymayhem wrote:OOC bigotry needs to end, both in discord and OOC.


While I completely agree with this - How would you actually plan on enforcing it ? The opposition from some parts of the community would be... intense. What would be considered bigotry ? It's very clear to me what it is, but another admin could have a different view. Do you think that inconsistent enforcement could be a problem, and if so, how could it be avoided ?
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27175

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