actioninja

Discuss policies and candidacies with the potential Headmins.

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actioninja
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actioninja

Postby actioninja » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:58 pm #573668


Hello, you may know me from tragedies such as:
- Taser Removal
- Disarm Shoving
- TGUI 2+
- Smart Wires
- Tabling Rework
- Reinforced Reinforced Windows
- pulling slowdown
- shoe stealing
- More backend refactors than I can remember at this point
- Lots of sound effects including the supermatter and all guns
- Fancy glowing lights
- Porting the ill-fated demo system
- Various adminbus with zero accountability

You may also know me as that angry furry that shouts at people on the discord a lot.
All of these may be true, who is really to say?

So anyways, I'm running. I've kind of wanted to for a while, and figured fuck it why not now.

Well what qualities qualify me for the qualified headmin position?

I bring something unique to the table among other candidates in that I am a current active maintainer of the codebase. I have a unique perspective that even the vast majority of admins lack. I'm a long time ss13 veteran and now nearly a year maintainer vet.

I also have the demonstrated ability to follow through on lofty goals. While admittedly tgui 2 was primarily stylemistake's work at it's core, I contributed over 80+ full interfaces to get rid of old tgui. This was nearly three months of my just about full time work entirely volunteered.

Most headmins and candidates I feel are highly pandering. I don't know if it's the elected position, desire to be reelected or what, but I have seen and felt a lot of action to be taken with the intent of crowd pleasing over meaningful action.
As everyone knows from how much redditors hate coderbus, we're no strangers to love making controversial decisions. I am more than willing to stand by things that receive initial kneejerks or public outcry to wait and see their long term effects, and also feel no need to be performative. I will do what I think is ultimately best for the server's long term health and player experience, pissbabies be damned.

Plus I'm already jaded and bitter, so there's no need to have any concerns about changing during the course of the terms

Also I’m the origin of le dog.

So what do I actually want to achieve running after all this time?

The Rules Nuke
r/tgstations rules have been a trainwreck for a long time. The core rule set isn't fantastic but it has had this atrocious wall of policy attached to it that makes it unbelievably bad.
Baystation, including rp rules, has less policy and precedent than us.
This is beyond out of control.
If you want to know why so many weird battles about rules take place, it's because nobody knows what the fuck they actually are. This even includes admins.

Tackling this huge goal will be a three step process:
Write a stronger core ruleset that is clearer to players and more flexible and evolvable as the game and server culture shift in ways we could not have imagined.
Nullify all existing precident and policy. Setup safeguards to prevent rulings being used as permanent policy moving forward.
Establish clear guidelines with administration that rules lawyering should not even be humored in the slightest.

This includes and touches all facets of the rules including escalation, the legendary hot potato issue that never gets anywhere.

Reexamine standards across all servers
Manuel still has a bit of an ambiguous policy problem, but perhaps a bigger problem is the erosion on not just rp but basic rule following behavior on the remaining servers.
Paired with the rethinking of core rules, this can hopefully result in a better and more consistent situation for everyone.

Push for greater transparency of administrative action
You don't realize how much actually happens "behind the curtain" so to say until you actually get to see it.
To all you conspiracy minded reading this, no, it's not nearly as exciting as you'd think and a lot of it is just menial bullshit. If anything that justifies
Transparency will be achieved via:
Public permanent ban records - While there are downsides to every little note and ban being scrutinized by losers with too much time on their hands, administrators should be fully willing to stand behind each and every permanent ban they issue.
Publicly viewable discord channels for administration discussion - This would include channels for both admin and headmin discussions. Private "chatter" channels for casual conversation would still be retained, with the golden rule of "specificity" being used for whether or not it should be moved to more formal of discussion channels. In special circumstances (PII eg doxing, major exploits, security issues, etc.) private channels would still be employed for what should be obvious reasons. Existing channels would not be made private, and would instead be archived, with new channels created for public usage.

Monthly QnAs
I personally will host a monthly-ish qna session to speak on any matter I have the knowledge of and can disclose information to. I'll try to get more people related to big happenings on as well so it’s not just me being a talking head.

Now you may have concerns right about now about things such as "man this prick thinks he can do so much" and "fuck you idiot" but I really know you mean "How do you expect to do so much?"

My response to that is that I don't really care if you think it's overambitious, the greatest changes always started with lofty goals. And anyways, every candidate always runs their mouth about how they are going to solve every problem ever facing reddit.com/r/tgstation so what’s some stretch goals really gonna hurt?

Remember, a vote for actioninja is a vote completely thrown away.
Last edited by actioninja on Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: actioninja

Postby BrawlerHorde » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:02 am #573670

What do you personally think of the current administration team?
What could they do better?
What do you think of the first headmin-elect, Domitius?
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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:10 am #573673

BrawlerHorde wrote:What do you personally think of the current administration team?
What could they do better?
What do you think of the first headmin-elect, Domitius?

Majority are well meaning at the very least. I don't like how some only seem to stick around to use it as a friends club and to stir up drama.
Transparency and consistency. So much controversy could be avoided if the frankly normally pretty unexciting and menial shit that most people don't ever see was just shown.
Don't really agree with some of their takes but everything I've seen points to they actually give a shit and would do the best they can. That's all you really can hope for out of someone you work with.
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Re: actioninja

Postby ArcaneDefence » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:42 am #573682

I've seen you need to step back from the discord before, and on one instance it caused a mess of speedmerged self-merge revert, then a speedmerge revert of that revert, and the original feature coder... putting back up a revert of the feature they coded.

Do you believe you can push for precedent shattering change while working with Domitius and another headmin without needing to step back from the community or having any blowback events that are similar?

It's been well known to me about your open distaste for the ruleset and perhaps how it is enforced, do you believe such a dramatic upheaval would lead to conflict with you and the team itself? What do you intend to do to handle animosity in a team with people at odds with you in that circumstance?

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Re: actioninja

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:07 am #573686

I think I best know you for your work on the code, which sadly means that most players don't know you and admins are less inclined to vote for you. I don't expect you to win, but I think you're an alright fella even if we've disagreed before and if you do win that'll be alright with me
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
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Re: actioninja

Postby Rohesie » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:35 am #573690

actioninja wrote:Write a stronger core ruleset that is clearer to players and more flexible and evolvable as the game and server culture shift in ways we could not have imagined.


I hear this kind of proposal every time, be it more specific like escalation, or more general like here, but it rarely translates from an abstract ideal into something concrete.
Can you offer at least a bullets-point summary of the kind of rules you want to implement?

Is there any other SS13 server with rules you deem good, to be emulated?

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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:23 am #573701

ArcaneDefence wrote:I've seen you need to step back from the discord before, and on one instance it caused a mess of speedmerged self-merge revert, then a speedmerge revert of that revert, and the original feature coder... putting back up a revert of the feature they coded.

Do you believe you can push for precedent shattering change while working with Domitius and another headmin without needing to step back from the community or having any blowback events that are similar?

It's been well known to me about your open distaste for the ruleset and perhaps how it is enforced, do you believe such a dramatic upheaval would lead to conflict with you and the team itself? What do you intend to do to handle animosity in a team with people at odds with you in that circumstance?


I've left the discord a total of three times I believe? Two of which were due to what I felt and still feel were pretty unacceptable of behavior that wasn't being acted at all upon by server administration. It's not exactly an uncommon belief among a good amount that the discord server is moderated quite poorly, and in one instance I can recall actively being mocked for not supporting quite literal white supremacist views. That shit's not cool even as "trolling."

The third case was a bit different and was a pretty big meltdown on my part due to a combo of a lot of factors including stress, sleep deprivation, and some personal matters at the time. I'm feeling a lot more stable as of recent and don't think I am going to make similar mistakes any time soon. I wouldn't be running otherwise.

I absolutely think a dramatic upheaval is going to be in fact, dramatic. However, the biggest part of what I want to do is factor in input and feedback from as many walks and as many sources as possible. No solution is going to be amicable to everyone, but it hopefully won't be tantrum inducing on anybody's part. I trust that most of the administration will be able to handle things.
Perhaps this also presents an opportunity to root out traitors identify "old guard" types that no longer align with current values and priorities anymore.


PKPenguin321 wrote:I think I best know you for your work on the code, which sadly means that most players don't know you and admins are less inclined to vote for you. I don't expect you to win, but I think you're an alright fella even if we've disagreed before and if you do win that'll be alright with me

I'm running as a gag. I don't really expect to win myself, so I'm going whole hog.

Rohesie wrote:I hear this kind of proposal every time, be it more specific like escalation, or more general like here, but it rarely translates from an abstract ideal into something concrete.
Can you offer at least a bullets-point summary of the kind of rules you want to implement?

Is there any other SS13 server with rules you deem good, to be emulated?


To perhaps clarify the stance a bit since I'm using some inflammatory and provocative language, the idea wouldn't necessarily be TOTALLY TRASHING ALL RULES AND WRITING FROM SCRATCH, it would be more of considering nothing that currently exists to be sacred. Be willing to reexamine the flaws of our current rules that lead to the nightmarish hell of policy, perhaps throwing away some of the rules entirely and maybe changing others so much they don't even really have the spirit of the original. Ultimately the largest issue with the current rules is that some rules are so unclear that entire clauses that have clauses get written, while others are hyper specific and have practically no other way to interpret yet there still is walls of policy accompanying them. "deeply amend existing rules" doesn't have the same ring to it though.
The process of doing this would be a lot of feedback, revision, and input from all sects of the community. Ideally following this very little would actually change in terms of how the server currently plays, it would just result in less admin conflict and be much easier on new players.
I don't know if any other server has quite what I'd want out of a strong ruleset. Perhaps this speaks to how difficult it is to construct THE ULTIMATE RULESET, but im built diffrent.
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Re: actioninja

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:05 am #573719

I know you said you’d want to rework the rules based on discussion and community input, but could you please give some specific examples of rules/policies/precedents that you aren’t happy with, and how you personally would rework them? Or examples where you would “soften” a formerly iron-clad rule?

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Re: actioninja

Postby ArcaneDefence » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:31 am #573722

Ok, so if the idea is less so to immediately trash all prior precedent and instead change the spirit of some of the rules we have how do you believe you'd handle being met with your peers locking you out of doing any of that?

How would you go about removing conflict in the staff itself while preserving how it plays while also removing the policy around it?
Is that just defining what "being a dick" is?

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Re: actioninja

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:37 am #573735

which rule do you consider bad?

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Re: actioninja

Postby BrawlerHorde » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:50 am #573756

actioninja wrote:Majority are well meaning at the very least. I don't like how some only seem to stick around to use it as a friends club and to stir up drama.
Transparency and consistency. So much controversy could be avoided if the frankly normally pretty unexciting and menial shit that most people don't ever see was just shown.
Don't really agree with some of their takes but everything I've seen points to they actually give a shit and would do the best they can. That's all you really can hope for out of someone you work with.


I definitely enjoy your focus on transparency. I disagree with 99% of administrative action being taken behind closed doors. In a community like this, being held accountable for your actions is important.
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PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:41 pm.
Reason: question about a specific person

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Re: actioninja

Postby Jack7D1 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:43 am #573786

Will you be running for headmin next term?
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Re: actioninja

Postby Stickymayhem » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:55 am #573791

It's not exactly an uncommon belief among a good amount that the discord server is moderated quite poorly, and in one instance I can recall actively being mocked for not supporting quite literal white supremacist views. That shit's not cool even as "trolling."


You've declared that you're the only one willing to truly enact unpopular policy that you believe will improve the community.

But you complain that the discord server is poorly moderated and is developing an issue with white supremacy to the extent that you, a reasonable person who has contributed plenty to the community has repeatedly been driven to leave.

Given these two things, isn't it contradictory not to make removing bigotry from the server part of your platform? Because it seems like you've avoided the issue despite clearly having an opinion on it.
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Re: actioninja

Postby XDTM » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:40 pm #573796

Stickymayhem wrote:
It's not exactly an uncommon belief among a good amount that the discord server is moderated quite poorly, and in one instance I can recall actively being mocked for not supporting quite literal white supremacist views. That shit's not cool even as "trolling."


You've declared that you're the only one willing to truly enact unpopular policy that you believe will improve the community.

But you complain that the discord server is poorly moderated and is developing an issue with white supremacy to the extent that you, a reasonable person who has contributed plenty to the community has repeatedly been driven to leave.

Given these two things, isn't it contradictory not to make removing bigotry from the server part of your platform? Because it seems like you've avoided the issue despite clearly having an opinion on it.


While not posted here, he did give a detailed answer on the gamer word thread
viewtopic.php?p=573708#p573708
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Re: actioninja

Postby Stickymayhem » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:04 pm #573798

XDTM wrote:
Stickymayhem wrote:
It's not exactly an uncommon belief among a good amount that the discord server is moderated quite poorly, and in one instance I can recall actively being mocked for not supporting quite literal white supremacist views. That shit's not cool even as "trolling."


You've declared that you're the only one willing to truly enact unpopular policy that you believe will improve the community.

But you complain that the discord server is poorly moderated and is developing an issue with white supremacy to the extent that you, a reasonable person who has contributed plenty to the community has repeatedly been driven to leave.

Given these two things, isn't it contradictory not to make removing bigotry from the server part of your platform? Because it seems like you've avoided the issue despite clearly having an opinion on it.


While not posted here, he did give a detailed answer on the gamer word thread
viewtopic.php?p=573708#p573708


They did. It's still not part of their platform and they've still not said anything about any intended changes related to it. Clearly they have a strong belief in one direction, but are not explcitly stating it for one reason or another in their platform or in that candidate debate thread.

If they aren't being explicit because they fear it'll be unpopular and they'll lose votes from a certain portion of the playerbase then that brings into question this:

Most headmins and candidates I feel are highly pandering. I don't know if it's the elected position, desire to be reelected or what, but I have seen and felt a lot of action to be taken with the intent of crowd pleasing over meaningful action.
As everyone knows from how much redditors hate coderbus, we're no strangers to love making controversial decisions. I am more than willing to stand by things that receive initial kneejerks or public outcry to wait and see their long term effects, and also feel no need to be performative. I will do what I think is ultimately best for the server's long term health and player experience, pissbabies be damned.


If they aren't being explicit because they think a ban on bigotry would not be the effective solution to dealing with this issue that they themselves acknowledged does exist, I'd like to hear their alternative, or reasons why this would be a bad decision, and therefore not one they are willing to make.

If they just forgot to add it, then as someone to whom this is a core concern, I'd be happier if they did make a clear statement on it.
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Re: actioninja

Postby Space Panda » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:17 pm #573803

I tried joining the discord thrice, but everytime I did I quit it after 5 minutes. That place is fucking cancer.

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Re: actioninja

Postby Jack7D1 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:49 pm #573814

Forums are reddits but without karma so things don't actually suck that much.
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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:27 am #573886

wesoda25 wrote:I know you said you’d want to rework the rules based on discussion and community input, but could you please give some specific examples of rules/policies/precedents that you aren’t happy with, and how you personally would rework them? Or examples where you would “soften” a formerly iron-clad rule?

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:which rule do you consider bad?



Silicon policy is a total clusterfuck and should be largely done away with.
Ironically "don't be a dick" isn't actually that bad because it's so flexible. A serious flaw with the way our rules are currently treated is that rule 0 and rule 1 both exist but for some reason the exact definitions of the rest of them are argued about forever.
An issue I take with the rest of the core rules is that so many of them are hyper-specific and not generalized to overall behavior. Core rules should be just that, core rules. They should govern your behavior at all times and your general mentality you should take to avoid even really having to worry about what they say. Our rules currently fail to do that. Most of them are the opposite, and most of the policy is the opposite even worse.

ArcaneDefence wrote:Ok, so if the idea is less so to immediately trash all prior precedent and instead change the spirit of some of the rules we have how do you believe you'd handle being met with your peers locking you out of doing any of that?

How would you go about removing conflict in the staff itself while preserving how it plays while also removing the policy around it?
Is that just defining what "being a dick" is?

Same way you'd go about any other conflict. Talk it out with the people in question, make sure everybody actually understands eachother, and try to figure out if a middle ground exists and if it does should it be taken.

Worst case scenario I get totally stonewalled end up like just about every other headmin where I promise lofty goals and end up doing just about nothing.

Jack7D1 wrote:Will you be running for headmin next term?

Maybe?

Stickymayhem wrote:They did. It's still not part of their platform and they've still not said anything about any intended changes related to it. Clearly they have a strong belief in one direction, but are not explcitly stating it for one reason or another in their platform or in that candidate debate thread.

If they aren't being explicit because they fear it'll be unpopular and they'll lose votes from a certain portion of the playerbase then that brings into question this:

Most headmins and candidates I feel are highly pandering. I don't know if it's the elected position, desire to be reelected or what, but I have seen and felt a lot of action to be taken with the intent of crowd pleasing over meaningful action.
As everyone knows from how much redditors hate coderbus, we're no strangers to love making controversial decisions. I am more than willing to stand by things that receive initial kneejerks or public outcry to wait and see their long term effects, and also feel no need to be performative. I will do what I think is ultimately best for the server's long term health and player experience, pissbabies be damned.


If they aren't being explicit because they think a ban on bigotry would not be the effective solution to dealing with this issue that they themselves acknowledged does exist, I'd like to hear their alternative, or reasons why this would be a bad decision, and therefore not one they are willing to make.

If they just forgot to add it, then as someone to whom this is a core concern, I'd be happier if they did make a clear statement on it.


I get the feeling this is intended as a gotcha more than a legitimate want to know more, but the primary reason I didn't take any kind of focus on bigotry is that any large scale change you're already fighting an uphill battle.
As much as I wish a lot of the total losers that have decided to hang around here would just fuck off already, I also know that even a server without quite as much of a "storied" history like bee can have pretty serious fallout from action taken in this manner. It's not really about the concern of "controversial" actions as much as it would be yet another uphill battle on top of existing difficult problems being tackled. I would genuinely consider it enough of a problem that you could probably focus entirely on hate and harassment for your platform and still not make meaningful ground by the end of a term. It's a pathetic reality that I have to pick and choose battles when it comes to something like this, and ultimately some shitheads on the discord acting like tools doesn't strike me as being the issue to focus on.
All this being said, if it came down to a vote being made among headmins about bigotry, use of slurs, acceptable behavior, etc. I would absolutely be voting in favor of removing hateful behavior from the community. I don't find any of the arguments against doing so to be very strong.
EDIT: as a bit of an addendum, I don't think blanket banning slurs would even be an effective solution even if I do support it. There's deeper rooted issues besides just that.
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Re: actioninja

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:47 am #573893

actioninja wrote:Ironically "don't be a dick" isn't actually that bad because it's so flexible. A serious flaw with the way our rules are currently treated is that rule 0 and rule 1 both exist but for some reason the exact definitions of the rest of them are argued about forever.
An issue I take with the rest of the core rules is that so many of them are hyper-specific and not generalized to overall behavior. Core rules should be just that, core rules. They should govern your behavior at all times and your general mentality you should take to avoid even really having to worry about what they say. Our rules currently fail to do that. Most of them are the opposite, and most of the policy is the opposite even worse.

To this end, how compatible do you feel rule 1 actually is with current escalation policy?

Rule 1 starts with...
Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, ...


Escalation policy starts with...
If a player wrongs you(theft, attacks, etc), you may retaliate. If you choose to retaliate with violence, you in turn have opened yourself up to violence. If you choose this route, do not expect admins to help you out if you die, even if you were not the original instigator. ...

Do you see this as at all incongruent? Our first and presumably most important rule is "don't be a dick" and "seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification", but simultaneously you're generally allowed to steal crucially important things from people, inconvenience their job (both shitsec and conversely tiders messing with sec/command come to mind), generally make their time considerably less fun at your leisure, and if they retaliate with violence they are afforded no help from the administration, and unless you go legendarily and consistently overboard with it you're fairly unlikely to get in trouble for it. Do you think how escalation is handled at present is ideal, and if not, what would you push to change about it?

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Re: actioninja

Postby Fikou » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:34 am #573908

when wiill the pool open
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Re: actioninja

Postby Stickymayhem » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:56 am #573910

actioninja wrote:I get the feeling this is intended as a gotcha more than a legitimate want to know more, but the primary reason I didn't take any kind of focus on bigotry is that any large scale change you're already fighting an uphill battle.
As much as I wish a lot of the total losers that have decided to hang around here would just fuck off already, I also know that even a server without quite as much of a "storied" history like bee can have pretty serious fallout from action taken in this manner. It's not really about the concern of "controversial" actions as much as it would be yet another uphill battle on top of existing difficult problems being tackled. I would genuinely consider it enough of a problem that you could probably focus entirely on hate and harassment for your platform and still not make meaningful ground by the end of a term. It's a pathetic reality that I have to pick and choose battles when it comes to something like this, and ultimately some shitheads on the discord acting like tools doesn't strike me as being the issue to focus on.
All this being said, if it came down to a vote being made among headmins about bigotry, use of slurs, acceptable behavior, etc. I would absolutely be voting in favor of removing hateful behavior from the community. I don't find any of the arguments against doing so to be very strong.
EDIT: as a bit of an addendum, I don't think blanket banning slurs would even be an effective solution even if I do support it. There's deeper rooted issues besides just that.


It's a bit of a gotcha, for sure. I feel like there's a contradiction here between "I'll do unpopular stuff I believe in" and "I have to pick and choose battles when it comes to something like this". The gotcha is intended to get you to add an issue I care about to your platform, rather than as an epic political win against an opponent.

You'll notice that the issue is being discussed as anti-bigotry rather than anti-slur. No one is intending to do a nazi purge, anyone should be able to play, but we're (the candidates that have made this part of their platform policy) targeting that hatespeech because this is not the environment for it. There's a million places to talk about that shit, only one place to play tgstation.

I feel like you're examining this issue as "I want to stop bigoted thought" when the reality is we just want this to stop being a safe space for the discussion and promotion of bigotry. You are an important member of the community who has contributed countless changes and yet you yourself said you left because of the white supremacist bullshit. You are precisely the kind of person I want to keep around and for every one of you who decides to tolerate it enough to stay, we probably lose several more that can't reconcile a fun game to contribute to and play with and a hotbed of nazi ideology, slurs and bigotry.

The headmin term is 6 months, I think it's well suited to focusing on a couple of key big projects you want to add to the server, and this next term I'd like this to be that project. I think it's more valuable than deleting and resetting the rules, I think it's more important to the game itself and I think it's important for the long term health of the community.
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Re: actioninja

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:05 am #573912

If your platform is “I’m not going to do vague pandering like the other candidates” why is your policy list just a carbon copy of the vague populist pandering from last years headmin elections?
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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:58 pm #573937

Stickymayhem wrote:It's a bit of a gotcha, for sure. I feel like there's a contradiction here between "I'll do unpopular stuff I believe in" and "I have to pick and choose battles when it comes to something like this". The gotcha is intended to get you to add an issue I care about to your platform, rather than as an epic political win against an opponent.

You'll notice that the issue is being discussed as anti-bigotry rather than anti-slur. No one is intending to do a nazi purge, anyone should be able to play, but we're (the candidates that have made this part of their platform policy) targeting that hatespeech because this is not the environment for it. There's a million places to talk about that shit, only one place to play tgstation.

I feel like you're examining this issue as "I want to stop bigoted thought" when the reality is we just want this to stop being a safe space for the discussion and promotion of bigotry. You are an important member of the community who has contributed countless changes and yet you yourself said you left because of the white supremacist bullshit. You are precisely the kind of person I want to keep around and for every one of you who decides to tolerate it enough to stay, we probably lose several more that can't reconcile a fun game to contribute to and play with and a hotbed of nazi ideology, slurs and bigotry.

The headmin term is 6 months, I think it's well suited to focusing on a couple of key big projects you want to add to the server, and this next term I'd like this to be that project. I think it's more valuable than deleting and resetting the rules, I think it's more important to the game itself and I think it's important for the long term health of the community.


I'm at work right now so I'll edit this later with a stronger response, but for now I'll just say that I didn't mean "deeper rooted issues" as in people will still be racist elsewhere, I think there's deeper rooted issues with shitty behavior that wouldn't be solved by just taking a stronger stance on hate and bigotry.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:If your platform is “I’m not going to do vague pandering like the other candidates” why is your policy list just a carbon copy of the vague populist pandering from last years headmin elections?


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Re: actioninja

Postby Qbopper » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:04 pm #573939

The bit about redoing the rules is definitely interesting and I'm on board to hear more, but yeah, it is sort of silly to claim you're not going to vaguely pander while also not actually providing any concrete information beyond "let's just nuke it all and start over"

Also, as much as people seem to love transparency among the admin team as a concept, I'd argue that we need some more transparency between head admins and the admin team before we start worrying about if players should be able to see adminbus arguing over a picture of a dog; do you have anything in mind there? I don't want to be rude but it does sort of seem like pandering to players when you include admin transparency yet don't touch on that subject at all; oftentimes major decisions are randomly dropped in the lap of admins
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Re: actioninja

Postby Booktower » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:58 pm #573970

actionninja wrote:Public viewable discord channels for standard administrative related discussion (note that private channels will still be employed for situations involving sensitive information, however uncommon or common they may be

actioninja wrote:Transparency and consistency. So much controversy could be avoided if the frankly normally pretty unexciting and menial shit that most people don't ever see was just shown.
Don't really agree with some of their takes but everything I've seen points to they actually give a shit and would do the best they can. That's all you really can hope for out of someone you work with.

I appreciate your take on this. However, the /tg/-community has always had plenty of people stirring shit and blowing things way out of proportion. Judging by your history as a contributor/maintainer it doesn't seem to affect YOU personally but it certainly affects most other people.
If anything, your proposal would increase controversy and admin burnout. Admins would be less likely to chime in with their opinion on an issue in a publicly viewable channel due to the publicity, particularly if said opinion is controversial. I've certainly seen my fair share of controversial cases in which adminbus opinion was split.

Independent of that, how would you actually enforce this? In my opinion we will still need a private casual channel for goofing around(i. e. current #admin-chatter, minus the administrative discussions that happen there). Discord doesn't let you move messages, moving a conversation to a public channel or from a private channel feels like it will be extremely annoying for anyone reading up on it afterwards.
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Re: actioninja

Postby Timonk » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:03 pm #574008

are you gonna put in a no no word filter rule like sticky?
Agux909 wrote:
Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel


Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.




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Re: actioninja

Postby oranges » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:20 pm #574016

Judging by your history as a contributor/maintainer it doesn't seem to affect YOU personally
Is this a joke? Contributors and maintainers have to put up with some of the worst histrionics around.

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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:21 am #574083

Timonk wrote:are you gonna put in a no no word filter rule like sticky?

yeah just to piss you off
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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:10 am #574258

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:Do you see this as at all incongruent? Our first and presumably most important rule is "don't be a dick" and "seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification", but simultaneously you're generally allowed to steal crucially important things from people, inconvenience their job (both shitsec and conversely tiders messing with sec/command come to mind), generally make their time considerably less fun at your leisure, and if they retaliate with violence they are afforded no help from the administration, and unless you go legendarily and consistently overboard with it you're fairly unlikely to get in trouble for it. Do you think how escalation is handled at present is ideal, and if not, what would you push to change about it?

This is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about. The actual written rule has a giant laundry list of strange policy and precedent attached to it that frankly is written like dogshit.
If something resembling escalation did return, it would absolutely have to emphasize reasonable escalation of force.

Qbopper wrote:The bit about redoing the rules is definitely interesting and I'm on board to hear more, but yeah, it is sort of silly to claim you're not going to vaguely pander while also not actually providing any concrete information beyond "let's just nuke it all and start over"

Also, as much as people seem to love transparency among the admin team as a concept, I'd argue that we need some more transparency between head admins and the admin team before we start worrying about if players should be able to see adminbus arguing over a picture of a dog; do you have anything in mind there? I don't want to be rude but it does sort of seem like pandering to players when you include admin transparency yet don't touch on that subject at all; oftentimes major decisions are randomly dropped in the lap of admins

Booktower wrote:I appreciate your take on this. However, the /tg/-community has always had plenty of people stirring shit and blowing things way out of proportion. Judging by your history as a contributor/maintainer it doesn't seem to affect YOU personally but it certainly affects most other people.
If anything, your proposal would increase controversy and admin burnout. Admins would be less likely to chime in with their opinion on an issue in a publicly viewable channel due to the publicity, particularly if said opinion is controversial. I've certainly seen my fair share of controversial cases in which adminbus opinion was split.

Independent of that, how would you actually enforce this? In my opinion we will still need a private casual channel for goofing around(i. e. current #admin-chatter, minus the administrative discussions that happen there). Discord doesn't let you move messages, moving a conversation to a public channel or from a private channel feels like it will be extremely annoying for anyone reading up on it afterwards.

This actually brought up a few things that I was already thinking but just forgot to put in the main post:
1. when I say public discussion channels this means headmin discussions as well
2. private channels for chatter, and as mentioned situations involving PII, serial evaders, security threats, major exploits, etc would still have more stringently used private channels available
3. existing channels that were previously used would be archived in favor of making their entire history public, too much to reasonably comb through and it would be immoral to not do so.

To focus a bit more on what booktower said, sure some confusion may happen for discussions that started in chatter channels, but ideally this wouldn't happen in the first place. I've updated the main post with some more detailed info about the subject.
Also I've been the subject of a lot of direct hate and harassment, coderbus isn't some monolithic entity that everyone deflects all blame on to.

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Re: actioninja

Postby terranaut » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:42 am #574260

i've expressed a positive opinion about your platform to some friends most of which said you are a bad pick because you ragequit every now and then and just leave the server behind
what do you say about this?
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Re: actioninja

Postby Armhulen » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:22 pm #574289

terranaut wrote:i've expressed a positive opinion about your platform to some friends most of which said you are a bad pick because you ragequit every now and then and just leave the server behind
what do you say about this?

Here's what he said about it above, it's a good question to have but his answer made me not worry about it
actioninja wrote:
ArcaneDefence wrote:I've seen you need to step back from the discord before, and on one instance it caused a mess of speedmerged self-merge revert, then a speedmerge revert of that revert, and the original feature coder... putting back up a revert of the feature they coded.

Do you believe you can push for precedent shattering change while working with Domitius and another headmin without needing to step back from the community or having any blowback events that are similar?

It's been well known to me about your open distaste for the ruleset and perhaps how it is enforced, do you believe such a dramatic upheaval would lead to conflict with you and the team itself? What do you intend to do to handle animosity in a team with people at odds with you in that circumstance?


I've left the discord a total of three times I believe? Two of which were due to what I felt and still feel were pretty unacceptable of behavior that wasn't being acted at all upon by server administration. It's not exactly an uncommon belief among a good amount that the discord server is moderated quite poorly, and in one instance I can recall actively being mocked for not supporting quite literal white supremacist views. That shit's not cool even as "trolling."

The third case was a bit different and was a pretty big meltdown on my part due to a combo of a lot of factors including stress, sleep deprivation, and some personal matters at the time. I'm feeling a lot more stable as of recent and don't think I am going to make similar mistakes any time soon. I wouldn't be running otherwise.
Go to bed bro, she's not thinking about you.

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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:14 am #574412

OP UPDATED WITH EPIC VIDEO
GO FUCK YOURSELF
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Re: actioninja

Postby Blurbo » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:01 am #574429

"RULES BAD,ONLY ME KNOW RULES GOOD UNLIKE YOU"
>ragequits frequently,blames it on muh racists
>literally just goof but worse in all aspects
>spam the merge and unmerge button
blurbo,professional (more) retard

OH MY GOD ITS ALL CONNECTED, BLURBO IS USING BIP TO POST ORANGES PROPAGANDA AND TURN PEOPLE INTO STRIPESOCKS SO THEY CAN GET FREE CODE LABOR

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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:48 am #574440

Blurbo wrote:"RULES BAD,ONLY ME KNOW RULES GOOD UNLIKE YOU"
>ragequits frequently,blames it on muh racists
>literally just goof but worse in all aspects
>spam the merge and unmerge button

suck my ass dipshit
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PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:09 pm.

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Re: actioninja

Postby actioninja » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:23 am #575252

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