Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

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Timberpoes
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Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:57 am #591909

Who?

Maintainer and Game Admin. You can see me around Sybil these days, where I have been covering for an admin shortfall. You can sometimes see me around Manuel. You will occasionally see me break into the other servers to solve practical problems. Consistently active, I balance my time spent in-game with my time spent coding. I take regular rest days and self-care periods so I'm always in tip-top condition, however players and admins alike are used to my open DMs on Discord where they're able to pop in, say hi and interact with me. I expect this to continue.

Why?

As a person, many of you have interacted with me in-game. Many of you have interacted with me on Discord. I can be headstrong and I can be stubborn. I push for what I believe in and take on board the opinions of those around me to create workable solutions that are acceptable to many without compromising on my own vision. I am used to working with others, negotiating changes and incorporating their ideas and plans into my own wider visions.

As an admin you will find that I take the time to talk to people. There are many of you out there who I've sat down with for 20 plus minutes in ahelps discussing issues, explaining rules and trying my best to make the game as awesome as it can be for as many people who are willing to play it. So many are good at telling you what is wrong, I try my best to explain why I believe it is wrong and what I'd personally prefer to see in the future.

As a Headmin, I will not cop out with a "Things are good, nothing needs to change" or a "I will listen to do the community" policy pitch. Listening to people and not turning every single server 180 degrees on its head are like, the two bare minimum things we ask for in Headmins. Every Headmin has an agenda they wish to push forward. I will propose a number of policy adjustments below that I believe form part of QoL changes that would improve our servers in some way, shape or form. These are the directions you can expect me to take as a Headmin.

What Do For LRP?

Spoiler:
LRP is in a, let's say interesting place. They're hothouses of chaos, where anything can happen at any time. Paranoia reigns supreme as the most robust prevail and the weak either adapt or die. They are the pure essence of what the SS13 experience is, a paranoia simulator. Part comedy, part horror, all awesome. Factories for chaos and emergent stories, tales of triumph and tragedy. At their best, our LRP servers are incredible. At their worst, they're NRP anarchy zones and populations plummet.

Clearly our LRP servers are a big draw to players of all types, however the creation of our MRP server has universally lowered the quality of RP across all our LRP servers.

As a Headmin, primarily policy areas on LRP will focus around increasing the quality of play. Sometimes LRP resembles NRP and I would seek to work alongside my fellow Headmins to encourage a crackdown on NRP behaviour such as OOC in IC and excessive use of words of the day such as drip, poggers and the blessed "antags" in IC. I have been trialling this approach on Sybil through notes and polite warnings to players and I genuinely believe this has led to an increase in the quality of shifts over the past month.

Not all players will be happy with this and not all Headmin candidates would support this as a platform for LRP. I understand and accept that. Some level of memery and silliness is inherent to SS13, but I argue that our LRP are not NRP and I genuinely believe that they are worse off for skirting the NRP line so closely. The reality is that I'd need to work alongside my two Headmins colleagues to create simple, subtle and workable changes to how the admins operate. I foresee no need for rule changes, merely changes in when, where and how those rules are enforced.


What Do For MRP?

Spoiler:
MRP is genuinely in a cool place right now, however I feel they have lacked a voice that genuinely plays the server, knows the community and understands the culture. MRP players are often loud and will always make their voices heard. I intend to listen to them and act as a bridge between the Headmins and the wider team, tempering fringe views and forming compromises with the mainstream as the foundation of my Headminship.

Manuel has consistently been one of our more populated servers. Clearly if people keep coming back to it, something is being done correctly. However, I am also aware of the wider tgstation culture and the fact that Manuel is a part of the tg ecosystem. I would not seek to distance Manuel too much further from the LRP servers than it already is and aim to make policy and rules tweaks in coordination with my co-headmins, the server admins and the players on the server as a whole.

As a Headmin, primary policy areas I wish to address on MRP is the wish for a stronger set of Rule 11 guidelines specific to MRP and a closer look at both murderbone and Dynamic configuration to ensure that MRP remains within the spirit of the tg ecosystem while simultaneously encourging the kind of server players who are looking for a consistent increase in higher quality roleplay within the utter terror of the SS13 universe wish to see.


What Do For Both?

Spoiler:
I will continue to advocate for genuinely inactive admins to be released from service. Being a genuinely inactive admin is of little use to the players, these admins may sometimes return from a hiatus to find their knowledge of the admin tools, rules, policies and server cultures has waned. Admins who have been deadminned for inactivity may, if they wish to return, start from the bottom as Trial Admins or Admin Candidates to ensure they still have the qualities we need and have up-to-date training on policies, admin tools and server cultures before they dive back into the fray. I believe this would address many concerns players see of "revolving door" adminship, where admins come and and it is seemingly arbitrary as to who comes back and what rank they occupy.

Similarly, I would continue to push for consistent numbers of new admins. There is always the fear that when making a good player into an admin, you're depriving the server of a good player as they're now required to observe and admin. On this front, I agree and admins would be encouraged to play regularly to act as pillars within their communities, showing the standard that players should work towards when it comes to basic behaviour and interactions with others. In return, I would seek to recruit more admins in general so that servers had a mix of regular admin coverage while admins had regular playtime alongside their admin hours.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby MortoSasye » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:02 am #591915

'TIS BE THE ADOPTED CHILD THAT I COULDN'T STEAL COMPLETELY FROM THE SHARKIE

They good pls vote
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Omega_DarkPotato » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:09 am #591925

I'm gonna be real, I'm a little biased for this one. (REEEEEEE ID ACCESS CHANGE REEEEE)

It feels like your grip on "what is LRP" is a little strong for my tastes, and although you've helped me in the past, your rulings on "what's ok in LRP magic land" and "what's not OK" feels... odd, and certainly DIFFERENT from what I've experienced on sybil before.
As an exclusively sybil player who likes how it is most of the time, I'd like to to expand a bit more on what you consider to be "NRP". Why is current-day slang "NRP", for example, and why does it supposedly have a negative impact on shift quality if someone says "poggers"??

Since you're a current maintainer, what will it look like for you to be both maintainer and head admin? Will the "headmins have no effect on code" change since you'll have access to both policy/server config and the code side of things?




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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Plapatin » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:10 am #591930

timber has my wholehearted support - they absolutely deserve this
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby chesse20 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:35 am #591956

I agree heavily on keeping dynamic on manuel but adjusting the config, and for trying to lower the "no rp" that i see when playing the low rp servers (ex. people saying out loud in character "i hate the admins" or "dynamic config sucks", or just flat out not saying anything at all and just validhunting) but before i decide on you being the candidate that i give my vote to I have a question

as far as i know some candidates are on the side of "we should be light with banning for slurs because they probably are joking and not being serious" while some are on the side of "ironic (racism/transphobia/sexism/homophobia) is still (racism/transphobia/sexism/homophobia) and shouldn't be tolerated". Which side do you say you veer to, and to what degree.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:50 am #591995

Let's break this down piece by piece!

Omega_DarkPotato wrote:I'm gonna be real, I'm a little biased for this one. (REEEEEEE ID ACCESS CHANGE REEEEE)


Insert frowny face emoji here.

Omega_DarkPotato wrote:It feels like your grip on "what is LRP" is a little strong for my tastes, and although you've helped me in the past, your rulings on "what's ok in LRP magic land" and "what's not OK" feels... odd, and certainly DIFFERENT from what I've experienced on sybil before.
As an exclusively sybil player who likes how it is most of the time, I'd like to to expand a bit more on what you consider to be "NRP". Why is current-day slang "NRP", for example, and why does it supposedly have a negative impact on shift quality if someone says "poggers"??


Genuinely a good question. It's hard to quantify in concrete terms, but is goes to the very heart of a server's atmosphere. LRP has so few meaningful interactions at times. Everything is fleeting. Someone will see something happen and shout "Poggers", then a bunch of people will join in with their own trendy words of the week. Then they'll disperse, looking for the next opportunity to repeat their tired catchphrases. Sec will ask an assistant where they got their gamer gear from. People will be running around screaming about drips. It's a huge part of recent Internet slang and Internet culture, but it is utterly meaningless from an RP perspective.

Words like that aren't, in my eyes, RP - They're endemic of a lack of RP. Of zero effort from players to interact with eachother outside of Internet memes. I want to see a push for a higher standard of IC speech than whatever that is - I'd like to see people putting in a low amount of effort into playing their role. LRP. That doesn't mean they have to be a consistent or even complete character - I enjoy seeing players who genuinely fit into the setting. Departments that work together. A slightly higher quality of play. I am a firm believer in the quality of speech reflecting on the quality of play within a server.#

I firmly believe that my efforts over Sybil in the past month have genuinely improved the LRP aspect of Sybil as a server. and have elevated it above its "Event Hall 2.0" tag of late.

Of course this entire platform for LRP lives and dies on whether admins listen to me or not. Server culture will always play a part and as long as admins are happy with a server's culture, I am not inclined to force them to adapt and change it and regardless of the election outcome I will continue to do my best for Sybil to create what I believe is an ideal LRP server - All the chaos and fun and bullshit death of SS13 that you know, love and hate with the ability to hold a conversation with someone that isn't entirely internet memes.

Omega_DarkPotato wrote:Since you're a current maintainer, what will it look like for you to be both maintainer and head admin? Will the "headmins have no effect on code" change since you'll have access to both policy/server config and the code side of things?


Again, a genuinely good question. This is likely to stray into the realm of the esoteric and I will be very careful not to discuss code and coding issues here. I may fail on that front.

I am very mindful of how code decisions may and will impact policy. You can see a recent post for me on the MRP Guncargo thread where code solutions are put forward to address MRP guncargo and I warned that I personally believed such things were doing policy-via-code. The same again in the MRP public genetics console discussions.

I believe it is important to state that for one - Headmins decide policy as a team, of which I am but one person. And for two - Maintainers do not have any control over whether their own PRs are merged or not. Of course, there is always the chance I could merge other PRs.

That, of course, does not answer your question. The true answer is that I genuinely do not know what the final form of a Maintainerheadmin will look like. What is most likely is that oranges will dictate my involvement with the codebase while I am a Headmin - Something like reviewing code is fine. Merging PRs? Probably less fine. Giving maintainer authorisation for ordinarily restricted PRs? I genuinely don't know.

Omega_DarkPotato wrote:do you like cirno?


I had to Google this to figure out what you were asking since whatever you're referencing went straight over my head. I am uncomfortable. Please send help. And cookies. Mostly cookies.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:43 am #592020

chesse20 wrote:I agree heavily on keeping dynamic on manuel but adjusting the config, and for trying to lower the "no rp" that i see when playing the low rp servers (ex. people saying out loud in character "i hate the admins" or "dynamic config sucks", or just flat out not saying anything at all and just validhunting) but before i decide on you being the candidate that i give my vote to I have a question

as far as i know some candidates are on the side of "we should be light with banning for slurs because they probably are joking and not being serious" while some are on the side of "ironic (racism/transphobia/sexism/homophobia) is still (racism/transphobia/sexism/homophobia) and shouldn't be tolerated". Which side do you say you veer to, and to what degree.


This is a very loaded question that has a lot of nuance in its answer.

When anyone asks about Rule 11 enforcement, I link them the Admin Conduct page (https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Cond ... Guidelines) which has guidelines that all admins should apply when enforcing Rule 11. When I personally enforce Rule 11, that is exactly what I stick to. I have absolutely no context for all the creative slurs players use. None of them apply to me. I'm not from the US so I don't contort in horror when someone says nigger. Any outrage I have over Rule 11 breaches are on behalf of other people and not myself, and I remain eternally self-aware of that fact.

That being said, I consider the kind of slurs we're referencing as both crass and vulgar and that they shouldn't have any place in a video game about cats, lizards, lightbulbs, plasma skeletons and occasionally humans riding cyborgs in space, with the purpose of said game being for everyone to have fun. Slurs the toe the Rule 11 line are fun for only one person, the person saying them. Speaking personally about my approch to adminning - All I care about is that the players have fun and follow the rules in the sandbox we provide for them.

Fully answering your question, that means I veer towards "slurs are bad, regardless of context" but server and /tg/ culture plays a part in how I apprach the problem as well. I pesonally hope to decrease Rule 11 issues through removing the NRP aspects I see across LRP servers when I visit them. My hope is that "casual" bigots who are only slurring because the RP level of the server has dropped so low that it's just a natural thing to do and say, will be converted up when the people around them aren't also shitting up the servers too.

Now as for why my MRP policy included a Rule 11 pitch - Which I will assume where the crux of your question arrises. MRP is a totally different beast to LRP. You have to really see the culture of MRP both in-game and out-of-game to truly understand it. MRP players as a whole are so incredibly intolerant of intolerance. That is their server culture. Inside every MRP player is a little LRP Bagilite, Sybilite or Terryite fully equipped with a toolbox, waiting to burst out Aliens facehugger-style and beat a bigot upside the head until all that's left is a red paste on the floor. There is certainly room for MRP specific Rule 11 policies to completely wipe that ALL out, should MRP as a whole want it. i would be willing to advocate for that, bearing in mind that of course I'd very likely have to negotiate with the other headmins and get their agreement on it too.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Colovorat » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:37 pm #592195

You want to remove poggers from IC
Bad, no vote for you

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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Rohesie » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:19 pm #592208

It is not immediately apparent just how much Timber babysits the servers, not only though admining but also by fixing the damn game itself when bugs happen that make the experience worse.

I am skeptical the playerbase has the knowledge and appreciation of how much they'd be able to do for the server if elected, but I'll do my part by voting the ocelot.

There's several good candidates, but few who dedicate so much to the server and have so much care for it.

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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:33 pm #592221

Colovorat wrote:You want to remove poggers from IC
Bad, no vote for you


Thank you for your valuable input. I have fully documented it and filed it under the appropriate section of my campaigning materials.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:43 pm #592225

Rohesie wrote:It is not immediately apparent just how much Timber babysits the servers, not only though admining but also by fixing the damn game itself when bugs happen that make the experience worse.

I am skeptical the playerbase has the knowledge and appreciation of how much they'd be able to do for the server if elected, but I'll do my part by voting the ocelot.

There's several good candidates, but few who dedicate so much to the server and have so much care for it.


Thank you for these kind words. I can only hope to continue as I have always done going forwards. I feex bugs, I help players and I try to make sure as many people are possible are all having fun.

I am under no illusions that I am going to win, but it's genuinely fun to put together a simple platform and to justify myself to the playerbase as a whole Having the opportunity to genuinely take part in discussions, answer questions and attempt to influence some subtle change is genuinely just an extension of being a maintainer but on a policy-scale instead of a code-scale.

Win or lose, I'll continue to do what I've always done going forwards.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:11 pm #592261

I'm glad theres a candidate on the books who'll do some work on people blurring the OOC/IC line
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Armhulen » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:28 pm #592265

gonna sneak this one high on my vote
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:35 pm #592292

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I'm glad theres a candidate on the books who'll do some work on people blurring the OOC/IC line


All that I'm really going to do on this is advocate for more enforcement of it under existing rules and provide complete support as a Headmin for admins who to curb some of the worst examples of this. I am already putting my own words into practice for enforcement of this on Sybil.

That being said, I'd still have to get the other headmins onboard if I wanted to make it a genuine policy for any Timberpoes Headmin term. I'm just happy that I've had to platform to bring it up and that a few people have taken notice and commented on it.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:38 pm #592295

Armhulen wrote:gonna sneak this one high on my vote


Thank you for the kind words. Again, I'm under no illusions that I am anything but an outside contender, simply having the opportunity to advocate for the changes I want to see as a candidate is fun and I'm enjoying adding to the broad spectrum of hot takes on various issues-of-the-day.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Domitius » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:35 pm #592334

MortoSasye wrote:'TIS BE THE ADOPTED CHILD THAT I COULDN'T STEAL COMPLETELY FROM THE SHARKIE

They good pls vote

Just because your mom raised you doesn't mean I don't love you Timber. Please use less words and you'll be sneaking up my ballot of what will appear to be a very lengthy voting process.

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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:24 am #592386

Domitius wrote:
MortoSasye wrote:'TIS BE THE ADOPTED CHILD THAT I COULDN'T STEAL COMPLETELY FROM THE SHARKIE

They good pls vote

Just because your mom raised you doesn't mean I don't love you Timber. Please use less words and you'll be sneaking up my ballot of what will appear to be a very lengthy voting process.


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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby YuiY1997 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:21 am #592465

More than a couple of Manuel players know exactly how "headstrong and stubborn" you are thanks to your conduct in the manuel community discord as a moderator there (when you doubled down on excluding players from deciding on large community changes, which resulted in not only the departure of yourself but several other community members that were community staff members. Not to mention a restructuring of how discourse was carried out, contrary to how you wanted it to.) How can manuel players who witnessed this first hand and didn't like what they saw feel comfortable putting you into the highest position of power we can over other candidates with a better track record like Rave or Goof.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby WineAllWine » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:05 am #592509

Hi Timber, very excited about your platform!

You already do a lot of work as a maintainer, are you certain you'll be able to do all the duties of a headmin without a decrease in maintainer-ness? (gosh, that sentence started off so well...)

Obviously you're free to stop coding as much to focus on headminnery but I think that'd be a shame.

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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Qustinnus » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:29 pm #592545

YuiY1997 wrote: other candidates with a better track record like Rave or Goof.

I agreed with you up until this point. Timberpoes is definitely extremely stubborn but saying Goof somehow has a better track record than him is a complete lie.

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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:33 pm #592546

YuiY1997 wrote:More than a couple of Manuel players know exactly how "headstrong and stubborn" you are thanks to your conduct in the manuel community discord as a moderator there (when you doubled down on excluding players from deciding on large community changes, which resulted in not only the departure of yourself but several other community members that were community staff members. Not to mention a restructuring of how discourse was carried out, contrary to how you wanted it to.) How can manuel players who witnessed this first hand and didn't like what they saw feel comfortable putting you into the highest position of power we can over other candidates with a better track record like Rave or Goof.


I am headstrong and stubborn. I am also at least partially self-aware of this fact. I am genuinely willing to reach compromise based on the feedback of others (Initial dart gun nerf proposals which led to a compromise). I am willing to completely compromise on my vision based on legitimate feedback (Ghosts not seeing smuggler's satchels). Sometimes I simply see no need to compromise at all when I have a strong enough foundation to stand my ground (Standard cyborg module removal).

Alphonzo was right on the money in my Trialmin feedback thread.

You can expect more of the same from a Timberpoes Headmin. Someone who is not afraid to compromise, but also someone who is not afraid to stand by their own views either. I take on board what others say and if appropriate adjust my own viewpoint.

If a player votes for me, that is what they are voting for. If they do not like it, there are other candidates who are more populist, other candidates whose views align with their own or other candidates who will cave to whatever the loudest part of the community clamours for without engaging any critical thinking neurons in their own brains.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:45 pm #592547

WineAllWine wrote:Hi Timber, very excited about your platform!

You already do a lot of work as a maintainer, are you certain you'll be able to do all the duties of a headmin without a decrease in maintainer-ness? (gosh, that sentence started off so well...)

Obviously you're free to stop coding as much to focus on headminnery but I think that'd be a shame.


The basic functions of being a headmin can always be carried out while adminning servers. It doesn't take much effort to tab to the Discord or the forums and take part in some discussion or do general housekeeping when I'd otherwise just be watching a server.

There will clearly be a reduction in time spent either/or adminning or coding though. That is just the nature of the Headmin role. I've even jokingly said before the elections started that I was including "If you hate the kind of PRs I make, vote for me so I'm too busy to code!" in my Headmin platform.

The reality is going to be that I prioritise any headmin work that's needed from me and that time will be allocated from my combined admin, coding and maintainer budgets to do headmin functions. That being said, I still continue to have a healthy balance between coding, adminning and maintainering - Adding headminning onto that is unlikely to upset my own apple cart too bad.
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Mister_E » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:02 pm #593891

My name is DONGLE-go Montoya. You kill my Standard borg. Prepare to die.

...Is what I would say if you weren't nice to me in spite of killing the one role and module I genuinely loved and felt best suited me both aesthetically and gameplay wise. You may be a good person and a good admeme, but c*ders removing things for the sake of removing them are what's killing this game.

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oranges
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby oranges » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:12 pm #593894

actual state of silicon mains

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Timberpoes
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:21 pm #593898

Mister_E wrote:My name is DONGLE-go Montoya. You kill my Standard borg. Prepare to die.

...Is what I would say if you weren't nice to me in spite of killing the one role and module I genuinely loved and felt best suited me both aesthetically and gameplay wise. You may be a good person and a good admeme, but c*ders removing things for the sake of removing them are what's killing this game.


A vote for me is a vote tactically applied so that I have to spend more time adminning and headminning, and can spend less time removing the things you love. *nods*
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/tg/station Admin Trainer: Service guarantees citizenship.

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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby Mister_E » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:29 pm #593900

oranges wrote:actual state of silicon mains

HEY AT LEAST I WASN'T BANNED FROM THE MANUALCORD FOR SAYING THAT I'D CUM IN CLARK WOOLERY'S EYES!

:erp:

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oranges
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Re: Timberpoes - The Codermin Connection

Postby oranges » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:25 pm #593914

I will strike again


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