Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Discuss policies and candidacies with the potential Headmins.

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Stickymayhem
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Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:05 pm #592110

Hi All,

Some of you may not have heard of me, but I'm Stickymayhem. I've been a GameAdmin for a few weeks now, and while I may not have a huge amount of experience as a GameAdmin I think I have the right ideas to make /tg/station a better place to play SS13!

Alright let's keep this short and sweet. As usual, my policies are divisive, but no one can argue I'm incapable of getting them done. Last term, I put a bigotry ban on the agenda and it went through despite me not winning. Looking over the previous term, I don't have a similar battle for the soul of /tg/ in mind, but there are some key problems I've identified that can be improved. Happy for other headmins to yoink any of my policies because ultimately I do this to enact policies I think will improve /tg/ over time. The bigotry ban was one of them, the following are also, I believe, crucial to the continued stability, growth and enjoyment of the server. There are other solutions, but they take the server in directions I don't like, so these are my solutions

Delegation
Headmins have a lot to do, and the server has reached the size where we should be delegating some responsibility below headmins. Here's how that works. Admins with a tenure of at least a year of appropriate activity, with an appropriate level of activity in the last 6 months (the time period in which policies can change drastically) can volunteer to handle ban appeals. The banning admin will have 48 hours to apply to a thread, before it is open for an Appeals Admin to intervene. Appeals Admins will have an expected level of activity to maintain to hold their position, with the goal of this system to ensure all appeals are replied to by the banning admin or an appeals admin within 3 days, and a majority are answered within a day. I'm happy to collect stats on this to ensure we're meeting these goals, it's the kind of service level shit I do in my day to day and I think we can professionalise this one key area of service to players.

Murderbone
There is a core conflict here and I think I'm one of the people best suited to help resolve it. I was a notorious murderboner years ago, and now I understand the long term effects this can have on server population and the conflict between antagonists and crew. I will go into depth on this in the candidate debates, but I think we reduce powergaming on both sides to allow antagonists to actually do interesting stuff other than murderbone without being dumpstered. If antagonists have more space to breath, they have less of an incentive to play absolutely efficiently at the expense of other players. If this just sounds like "buff antagonists to stop them killing everyone?" to you, then I think you don't have the big picture of the game in mind well enough to be making an accurate decisions on policy. This is something that can be accounted for in increasing the scope of powergaming policy, but more realistically the policy exists and the issue is enforcement. I think the low rule server will help with this.

Consistency
Across the server cultures there is a lack of consistency between admin rulings, and what people will allow based on the server. This means that the same behaviour on Terry can often be ignored by admins who came up in that culture that would otherwise be punished somewhere like Bagil. I think this is ok in moderation, but has probably increased the differences between servers without anything being codified. I'm going to steal armhulen's policy here because it's a great idea, and make all adminPM tickets public. I think the standard has dropped across the team for interaction with players, and I think more importantly, admins will be more likely to learn from each other if these tickets are publicised. I would MAYBE encourage the ability for players to specifically opt out of this process, to respect the privacy of their own AdminPMs. I think data collection is a two way street and if the party with less power in the relationship would like to keep their PMs from being publically accessible, they should be allowed to do so. That said, these PMs can still be brought up as needed (the way it works today) in the case of admin misconduct and appeals.

The Low-Rule Server
This is my pet project, and one that I think could be a great benefit to /tg/. The pitch is: A server that maintains required RP levels, but with far fewer rules when it comes to escalation. Almost everything but mass destruction and murderbone is on the table, with a view to allowing all servers to blow off some steam on the crazy server. In previous experiments I've found that letting security off the leash means you have violent fast paced rounds with a tenous balance where, ironically, you can often get more interaction done because everyone is on the same level playing field of violent intent. I would encourage all servers and players to join this server on occasion for a pallette cleanse, to get some murder out of your system and to enjoy the combat side of SS13 without having to wait for antag. I think this allows the server population to mix, reduces antag-rolling and builds a new robust shared culture where you can practice your new crazy and rule breaking ideas in a safe environment.

Key Policy Condensed
1. Delegate Ban Appeals to experienced admins and provide a service level agreement of 3 days before a reply from the banning admin or an appeals admin, with a view to making the majority of appeals replied to within 24 hours.
2. Reduce powergaming from the crew to give antags more freedom to play less efficiently. The arms race results in murderbone being the only reliable way to use your antag round to have fun with high impact. Giving antags space allows them to be less efficient and play more interestingly.
3. Improve consistency in admin conduct across servers and rulings with transparent adminPMs (that players can opt out of unless involved in an appeal/misconduct)
4. The low rule server: turn event hall into a standard RP, low rule server where everyone has close to antag status and can experiment, mix with other servers and blow off steam.

I'm extremely effective at getting good policy done, hard on admins and players where necessary, and completely insane. Vote Sticky.
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Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be



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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Polish_User » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:58 pm #592123

Your deep love for Terry from your previous platform displayed in one picture.
What happened with your love after the elections?
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby bobbahbrown » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:11 pm #592140

why were you removed from the game master role? i think to many external viewers we still don't really understand what happened or why. do you think this will present issues in working with your fellow admins as their headmin?

aside from this, would you at the point of releasing your low-rule server consider branding it as the 'oldest anarchy server in space station'? i think the idea of a low-rule server sounds interesting, but could be an interesting administrative problem during the transitionary period of its introduction. a+ for creativity, this is a very cool idea.

best of luck,
bobbah 'bee' brown
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:22 pm #592146

Polish_User wrote:Your deep love for Terry from your previous platform displayed in one picture.
What happened with your love after the elections?
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Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be

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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:30 pm #592147

bobbahbrown wrote:why were you removed from the game master role? i think to many external viewers we still don't really understand what happened or why. do you think this will present issues in working with your fellow admins as their headmin?

aside from this, would you at the point of releasing your low-rule server consider branding it as the 'oldest anarchy server in space station'? i think the idea of a low-rule server sounds interesting, but could be an interesting administrative problem during the transitionary period of its introduction. a+ for creativity, this is a very cool idea.

best of luck,
bobbah 'bee' brown


I was demoted due to an OC meme critical of a headmin I made which used two words from tgsleads as a quote from them, which I then posted in adminbus. This leak combined with previous cited problems (like that time a year or two ago I renamed a voice channel to wilchenisapedo in reference to their weird loli shit after they spammed flayed alive dogs at me in DMs, and the time I convinced everyone nervere wanted to remove boxstation) was what they used to determine I was too inflammatory to remain gamemaster.

This doesn't have any impact on my ability to work with fellow admins, since I generally only punch up at the headmins, with the exception of shezza which was undeniably thoughtless. Whether any of this is understandable, justifiable or reasonable is up to the reader.

I am obviously limited in what I can discuss regarding the incident, but as always any headmin is free to discuss it in full publicly to any extent they wish. I am limited, they are not.
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Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be

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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby GamerAndYeahMick » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:38 pm #592149

The current headmin team seems to be quiet reasonable and has apparently decided that you are not to be trusted with/unworthy of the position of game master, why should we believe that you are trustworthy with the power headmin brings?

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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Boris » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:53 pm #592151

Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be, somehow comes up with only good policy, and is perfectly capable of working with other people when it actually counts.
Vote for this man.
The nerd that plays Tam and Amanda Lin

Call me a bad admin here.

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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:12 pm #592154

GamerAndYeahMick wrote:The current headmin team seems to be quiet reasonable and has apparently decided that you are not to be trusted with/unworthy of the position of game master, why should we believe that you are trustworthy with the power headmin brings?


Sure, I've served two headmin terms and the server still exists.

I've explained the circumstances as far as I believe I am allowed above. If you are absolutely confident in the decisions all three headmins have made throughout this term then you have no reason to believe they made a bad decision here.

I think there have been some bad decisions, particularly on some high profile cases, that indicate some problems. If you're not familiar with them or you fall on the other side of those issues then I'm not going to convince you and I'm not keen on digging up shit on the last term since that just gets ugly.
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:25 pm #592159

aside from this, would you at the point of releasing your low-rule server consider branding it as the 'oldest anarchy server in space station'? i think the idea of a low-rule server sounds interesting, but could be an interesting administrative problem during the transitionary period of its introduction. a+ for creativity, this is a very cool idea.


To answer this separately, that's a great branding idea.

I think if anything it makes administration easier. As long as the regular IC OOC divide and RP requirements are adhered to there's far less to deal with on that server and I believe it'll reduce griefing on the other servers. All playstyles should be valid and as long as we retain the sportsmanship and the RP I believe is critical to a fun, functioning server, we should get something interesting out of this.

In my experience of years of running low rule rounds over various periods of /tg/station's history, I've found an interesting result. When you give security the ability to crack greytide skulls and everyone has the capacity to immediately jump to round removal rather than slow escalation, conflicts are quick and brutal but also more often avoided, because you're not risking 5 minutes in medbay you're risking this motherfucker spacing you for taking his toolbox. Weirdly people used their words more to avoid conflict, and I have a hope that this server might reveal some concerns I've had with escalation policy for a very long time. Alternatively, it'll be a chaos pit which will still be fun and a nice place to hop on and crack some skulls.
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Malkraz » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:27 pm #592161

Stickymayhem wrote:I think there have been some bad decisions, particularly on some high profile cases, that indicate some problems. If you're not familiar with them or you fall on the other side of those issues then I'm not going to convince you and I'm not keen on digging up shit on the last term since that just gets ugly.

Doing so would help illuminate why they're an issue and how you plan to do things differently
wesoda24: malkrax you're a loser because your forum signature is people talking about you

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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:41 pm #592169

Malkraz wrote:
Stickymayhem wrote:I think there have been some bad decisions, particularly on some high profile cases, that indicate some problems. If you're not familiar with them or you fall on the other side of those issues then I'm not going to convince you and I'm not keen on digging up shit on the last term since that just gets ugly.

Doing so would help illuminate why they're an issue and how you plan to do things differently


I appreciate that, and I'm willing to lose votes or take optical hits in exchange for not dredging up old drama even if I think it'd ultimately benefit me to do so because it'll sour the headmin election unnecessarily. Pragmatically, there's also context I am not allowed to share, and context adjacent to that on a fuzzy grey line which could result in the headmins taking further measures to punish me, and without those two pools of information my side of things would probably look weak anyway, so it's easier to just recommend you make your decision based on incomplete information, whichever way that swings you.

Edit: In the most general terms, I think there has been some serious variance in rulings on some bans and complaints, and it seems to come down to differing enforcement on different servers from different admins. A bagil admin might be more tolerant of rule breakages that are consistent with bagil's culture, for example, so certain rules are broken more often, resulting in those breakages being tolerated, and then finally when someone tries to take a stand on it you end up fighting against a group who are used to being allowed to break that rule. This is fine when it comes to things that don't make the game worse, but I think it often results in making the game worse.
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby YuiY1997 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:27 am #592470

So with the low rules server. Is this in line with your "A vote for sticky is a vote for anarchy" platform from the last election or is this different?
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:40 am #592490

YuiY1997 wrote:So with the low rules server. Is this in line with your "A vote for sticky is a vote for anarchy" platform from the last election or is this different?


Yes it's the same policy as last time. I ran on a bigotry rule a couple of times and second time round this will definitely stick too. I am 100% guaranteeing without fail that the anarchy server will come about with or without me.

I am willing to stake £4000 of my personal savings on this to anyone who'd like to take the bet, to be paid in full. I will support up to 300 participants.

That is how confident I am. This is a legally binding post. My lawyer has looked over it and confirmed this is a contract.
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Arianya » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:55 pm #593843

Hi Sticky,

Thanks for the indepth platform - I have a couple of questions that stick out to me, if you don't mind.

- Delegation/Appeal Admins
  • You say a lot of "appropriate activity" but don't specify much - I realize this policy will inevitably be changed in discussion with headmins, but could you give us an idea of what you're looking for here? A round every day? A round a week? Just a rough ballpark
  • If I understand you correctly, the banning admin has 48 hours to "apply to a thread" (which I presume means make it clear they intend to handle it)
  • What happens if the banning admin applies but is then slow to resolve, for one reason or another? Is there a 3 day time limit after which you'd consider it fair game to pick up?
  • Typically, we aim to have the banning admin deal with a ban appeal because they were there at the time. First hand experience beats even an in depth reading of the logs 9/10 times - could you expand on why you think speed is worth potentially losing that first hand experience? 1-3 days for ban appeals is pretty typical for our current ban appeals systems (barring contentious or complicated bans), so it's not as if you're saving players from being improperly banned for longer than they should - I'm curious what your "gain" is in this, just a level of consistency?
  • And if consistency is the name of the game, what's your view on ban appeals that stretch longer than your goal (due to complexity/admin inavailability/etc.) - a black mark against the admin or Appeals Admin who is handling it?

- Murderbone
  • You dismiss the point of code changes, somewhat understandably, as you are not a code maintainer or head coder - that said, however, do you view it as an issue if our rules on powergaming become "stricter" or more tightly enforced, yet the codebase continues to enable/encourage the behaviour? It's fair to say the rules shape gameplay as much as vice versa, but to have incongruity between the two can seem almost like a Catch 22 to players.
  • You note powergaming policy here specifically, and it's enforcement - where do you feel enforcement is lacking at the moment? Enforcing a rule that calls someone a "powergamer" is largely a subjective account that will almost assuredly lead to a contentious ban appeal, especially for older players with more of a history on the server, so I'm curious to hear how you intend to support admins in making these bans easier to hand out (where appropriate).

- Consistency
  • You note a lack of consistency on admin rulings - this has very traditionally been a headmin area of oversight, mainly handled in admin complaints/ban appeals unless someone really steps in it. Why do you feel our current system doesn't work? Insufficient ban appeals? Lazy headmins?
  • You note a big code change here - the making of AdminPMs public and optable out of - how do you intend to achieve this? Do you have sufficient coding experience, and a case to present to MSO why this is worth him investing time to make available (as I presume the "publicly available" part involves it being hosted on the site somewhere? If not, how do you intend to achieve this platform point?
  • On occasion we handle tickets that contain sensitive data - personal info, IP addresses, etc. As someone who lives in a GDPR affected area, you will be aware of the perils of making public data that could contain sensitive info - for that reason, I'm curious why your policy of adminPM tickets publicity does not include an admin opt-out for a ticket to be public? Giving players this choice is definitely important, but as the ones who, ultimately, publicise the data, we do have a duty to protect users even if they don't protect themselves.
  • I appreciate "because they might abuse the button" is an easy counterpoint, so I'll expand here: We already have tools that are highly abusable but are moderated by consensus and the headmins - do you feel this button is distinct from any other in potential for admin misuse? What would be your view of the damage that is caused by an admin misusing this button, especially if rectifiable in case of abuse?

- The Low Rule server
  • The most glaring flaw I can see here is population level - you're talking about a server with (by your own admission) much higher levels of aggression between players - how do you intend to keep population levels such that this server functions? As experience shows, players tend to go where the players are, and while a server where you can "let off steam" sounds nice, there has to be someone who is okay with being the recipient for this to work, or else you just have a very short lived server of conflict baiting/shitcurity/etc players who drive away others.
  • A secondary note that, as of time of writing, we have 4 servers permanently on, with a few spares (not counting TGMC, which is very much it's own beast) - do you think the servers are at a point where it makes sense to split the playerbase further, assuming it can hold a population?

Thanks for your time, and good luck with the election!
Frequently playing as Aria Bollet on Bagil & Scary Terry

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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:28 pm #594080

You say a lot of "appropriate activity" but don't specify much - I realize this policy will inevitably be changed in discussion with headmins, but could you give us an idea of what you're looking for here? A round every day? A round a week? Just a rough ballpark


I think ten rounds a month, averaged over 6 months, or 30 rounds in the previous 30 days, would cover the bases well enough. If you don't have enough activity, you can compensate and you'll be qualified in 30 days. If you're a longer term member then I want to account for fluctuations in playtime, which as someone who's nearing 8 years on /tg/station I do appreciate.

If I understand you correctly, the banning admin has 48 hours to "apply to a thread" (which I presume means make it clear they intend to handle it)
What happens if the banning admin applies but is then slow to resolve, for one reason or another? Is there a 3 day time limit after which you'd consider it fair game to pick up?


Until an admin replies to a post, they have the excuse of having not seen it. Once they've replied, they'll be far more inclined to begin resolving it. Otherwise it'd be case by case. The aim is to resolve the majority of appeals quickly and I would encourage these appeal admins to ping other admins who've left their threads in limbo.

Typically, we aim to have the banning admin deal with a ban appeal because they were there at the time. First hand experience beats even an in depth reading of the logs 9/10 times - could you expand on why you think speed is worth potentially losing that first hand experience? 1-3 days for ban appeals is pretty typical for our current ban appeals systems (barring contentious or complicated bans), so it's not as if you're saving players from being improperly banned for longer than they should - I'm curious what your "gain" is in this, just a level of consistency?


While currently a solid proportion of appeals go through in reasonable time, there are plenty that can end up sitting for a week or two. Often these simply require the attention of a higher authority to pass it one way or the other and the headmins are busy or it's out of sight. I think having more than three people focused on appeals would be a good way to ensure consistency yes.

Your point about first had experience is totally valid, and it's useful to have the admin available, but the majority of appeals can be solved with logs too. Generally when we get to hard nuances it starts to reach the attention of headmins or policy discussion anyway, so this is a way of clearing the "easy" 90% more quickly and allowing for more attention to be given to resolve the 10%. I would still encourage the Appeals Admins to get in contact with the original banning admin before jumping in themselves. Just a ping on discord is enough.
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:35 pm #594081

You dismiss the point of code changes, somewhat understandably, as you are not a code maintainer or head coder - that said, however, do you view it as an issue if our rules on powergaming become "stricter" or more tightly enforced, yet the codebase continues to enable/encourage the behaviour? It's fair to say the rules shape gameplay as much as vice versa, but to have incongruity between the two can seem almost like a Catch 22 to players.


If the codebase moves in a direction that encourages powergaming, I'll give input as I've always done, but I can't make any promises that I'd have influence on code, so we work with what we get. Frankly I think the codebase generally trends towards nerfing overpowered gear over time, and I think this actually ends up limiting antags and forcing them to powergame, forcing the crew to powergame in response. It's unintuitive, but over the years I've been playing I've noticed that powergaming gets worse the more insecure antagonists feel, because they murderbone for survival. It's definitely an issue if the codebase pushes behaviour in a bad direction, but one that is dictated by the codebase, while we can only compensate for it with policy.

You note powergaming policy here specifically, and it's enforcement - where do you feel enforcement is lacking at the moment? Enforcing a rule that calls someone a "powergamer" is largely a subjective account that will almost assuredly lead to a contentious ban appeal, especially for older players with more of a history on the server, so I'm curious to hear how you intend to support admins in making these bans easier to hand out (where appropriate).


I think there's a clear inconsistency in enforcement for powergaming behaviour. This tends to fall along server lines, with players on a server becoming admins and reflecting that server culture, thus letting their old player buddies get away with shit. It's not a "Oh I'll let Derrick do what Derrick always does" but it's definitely an issue of them accepting a server culture of bad behaviour and not wanting to get bogged down in challenging it. We've reached a point where some behaviour has become so normalised that obvious rulebreaks result in indignation because "everyone else is doing it". And they're not wrong, so I think the policy is for the most part in place, but can be made clearer. Powergaming is somewhat subjective, but we can put together examples of what is and isn't bad behaviour, record powergaming more thoroughly and give appropriate warnings but harsher punishments if people don't reform.
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Re: Stickymayhem - A Bright-Eyed and Hopeful New Game(Admin)

Postby Stickymayhem » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:42 pm #594082

You note a lack of consistency on admin rulings - this has very traditionally been a headmin area of oversight, mainly handled in admin complaints/ban appeals unless someone really steps in it. Why do you feel our current system doesn't work? Insufficient ban appeals? Lazy headmins?


The headmins have inherent conflicts in their perceptions of acceptable playstyles, and server cultures have been unchallenged long enough to make it a stressful exercise for most individual admins to push back against it. We have maybe a dozen properly active admins with the reslience to genuinely push back about server wide bad behaviour consistently, and many others tend towards letting obvious bad behaviour slide because "If everyone consents to being treated shitty and everyone is fine with being shitty, what's the issue?". In the short term this might sound reasonable, but I think we've seen over the past couple of headmin terms that behaviour is worsening and that has a lot of knock on impacts on the game including the powergaming issues.


You note a big code change here - the making of AdminPMs public and optable out of - how do you intend to achieve this? Do you have sufficient coding experience, and a case to present to MSO why this is worth him investing time to make available (as I presume the "publicly available" part involves it being hosted on the site somewhere? If not, how do you intend to achieve this platform point?


There seems to be enough interest in it. Back in my first headmin term (my memory fails me the following may be fictional brain worms) I believe I ran on the idea of public logging, and we achieved this during our term because there was enough interest in it. I think it'll be built if the headmins are keen on implementing it. We live by the grace of people doing shit for free and other servers with smaller communities have managed it without issue.

On occasion we handle tickets that contain sensitive data - personal info, IP addresses, etc. As someone who lives in a GDPR affected area, you will be aware of the perils of making public data that could contain sensitive info - for that reason, I'm curious why your policy of adminPM tickets publicity does not include an admin opt-out for a ticket to be public? Giving players this choice is definitely important, but as the ones who, ultimately, publicise the data, we do have a duty to protect users even if they don't protect themselves.
I appreciate "because they might abuse the button" is an easy counterpoint, so I'll expand here: We already have tools that are highly abusable but are moderated by consensus and the headmins - do you feel this button is distinct from any other in potential for admin misuse? What would be your view of the damage that is caused by an admin misusing this button, especially if rectifiable in case of abuse?


I think an admin opt out button is perfectly reasonable, I wouldn't encourage it's use except in those instances, similar to how we handle notes now.
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Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be


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