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Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:27 am
by ColonicAcid

Bottom post of the previous page:

He assumed something, and like majority of assumptions, it was not even close to the truth.
Look at feedback, tell me all the "remove x" and what players made them and see what server they go to.
Hint: it's not basil.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:37 am
by Malkevin
Assumptions? I was there arguing with them on a daily basis you fuck knuckle.

I'm talking policy not code

The biggest culprits for policy being as weak as it is are hbl and pandarsenic, both from server2.
In fact the majority of admins we got at the time were from and admined almost solely on server2.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:39 pm
by ColonicAcid
Yes the Yinadele admins were all from #2. Nobody is arguing that.

The yinadele era was also 3 years ago, and back then it was the "rough and tumble" way of playing ss13 that you mentioned you wanted, so I don't really understand your point here?

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:12 pm
by Malkevin
No it wasn't, it was the end of that era.

People like me fought tooth and nail to slow down the encroachment of the server 2 admins but where we're at today was inevitable because at the end of the day its the admins that write and interpret and enforce the rules, and it was those admins that were selecting and training other admins to be like them, they were the ones with the actual power to change things to their way and the ability to select and make other people think their way too, my side on the other hand was a dying breed with no power other than the ability to grumble loudly.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:57 pm
by TheWiznard
Malkevin wrote:
BUT! What if we actually DID make Server 2 a completely separate server for a different play style?
Now hear me but you think I'm crazy.

I'm not talking about giving server 2 to the Basilers, because to be frank: there are half a dozen ss13 servers out there catering to their playstyle (hell, Sigurd was empty last I checked - they could go squat there), and if I'm to be honest they are the cancer that has turned tg into a hugb0x (not that the current Sybil playerbase isn't largely a cancer itself - somehow its managed to become an even bigger Idiocracy than it was two years ago), and its pretty daft running an entire server for their small playerbase.

But what if Server 2 became the TG Classic server, for those us that are man enough to deal with the low rules, low admin interference, rough and tumble playstyle of old.
The low rules rounds have apparently gone down a treat when ran on sybil, a large number of people actually enjoying them, and sybil will still exist for those bedwetters that still require admins to hold their hands when they're being fucktards.
Admins are normally on server 2 though, I don't understand. Server 2 is the TG classic server, that's where everyone hangs out at.
To be honest I rarely even log into server 1 anymore because hardly anyone is online. I could see the point in removing a server that only 10-15 people play on. I just think that if server 1 gets removed I'd just stop playing, I don't think I could get used to playing 20 minute long rounds again.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:59 pm
by Steelpoint
Can we clarify what is server 1 and what is server 2?

Are we going with the current (and imo wrong) of server 1 being Basil/Basiglasdasd and server 2 being Sybil or the older version of it being inverted.

E: I'm sure its S1 Basil S2 Sybil but still.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:02 pm
by TheWiznard
Steelpoint wrote:Can we clarify what is server 1 and what is server 2?

Are we going with the current (and imo wrong) of server 1 being Basil/Basiglasdasd and server 2 being Sybil or the older version of it being inverted.

E: I'm sure its S1 Basil S2 Sybil but still.
I'm just going off what the main page says

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:45 pm
by Malkevin
Ignore the main page, it's a lie

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:59 pm
by Takeguru
Wasn't bagil moved to the left to try to goad people to joining it instead?

Or am I talking out my ass

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:16 am
by oranges
that was mso's le epic troll

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:39 am
by Steelpoint
As apart of many attempts to boost Basil's population the server numbers, and the server positions, were swapped so Basil was Server 1 and Sybil was Server 2.

I don't know but do we even have the population to support two servers that are well populated each? It seems we only ever get one server that breaches more than that twenty person limit (sybil) while the other server (basil) always remains sub twenty people at best.

I mean fucking Oranges is paying just 10$ shy of the 60$ needed to fund Basil, if the Patron funders don't care or are fine with paying to support Basil then so be it, its not like Basil's somehow detracting from /tg/station overall or Sybil's population. Sure you can (try and) make a case of the actual people that play on Basil may not be the best but the actual server is not really impeding anything aside from people's wallets, of which they are paying willingly.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:46 am
by oranges
it's oranges

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:07 pm
by QuartzCrystal
Has anyone else noticed Basil's population has diminished slowly since ERP was allowed?

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:13 pm
by Falamazeer
QuartzCrystal wrote:Has anyone else noticed Basil's population has diminished slowly since ERP was allowed?
I dunno if causality is a part of these linked points, but yeah, a bit.

there are 5 on right now. compared to 66/65 on sybil, just as a sampling.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:01 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
That's because the ERPers don't have to only do it when there are no admins on, so they go to chaosstation13

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:37 am
by oranges
QuartzCrystal wrote:Has anyone else noticed Basil's population has diminished slowly since ERP was allowed?
my secret master plan has been revealed

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:52 am
by Shadowlight213
We should open up bagil to coderbus to use as a dev server possibly for testing features or gememodes before pushing live.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:19 am
by Tornadium
Can we please re ban ERP for the love of god.

Get them back on fucking Basil.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:29 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
palpatine213 wrote:We should open up bagil to coderbus to use as a dev server possibly for testing features or gememodes before pushing live.
It is, in theory. Just wait until both MSO and a maintainer are online and there isn't a real round on basil and talk really fast at them.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:21 pm
by Demonbane
fuck u

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:22 pm
by Demonbane
and fuck u francium for posting this old ass thread in ooc

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:15 pm
by francinum
Demonbane wrote:and fuck u francium for posting this old ass thread in ooc
I didn't post this, someone else did.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:25 pm
by Luke Cox
Map rotation on Sybil, low-pop map on Basil. Problem solved.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:42 pm
by Ahammer18
Im okay with how things are run currently, however, if Sybil were to run with a larger, more largepop supporting map, I could see this being a good thing.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:48 pm
by QuartzCrystal
Destroy Basil.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:43 pm
by Malkevin
Remove Basil, Sybil Strong

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:44 pm
by QuartzCrystal
Basil currently has 0 players online, Sybil has 51.

I logged onto Basil earlier, there was a single player online (who was also antag) with myself and one other admin observing. It is a cancer.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:07 pm
by Shadowlight213
Just blacklist a bunch of stuff in sandbox, and set bagil to that.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:10 pm
by Wyzack
Our population has plummeted as of late, i guess because school is back in or something. But really, why are all you sybil players so anal devastated about the existence of a server no one is forcing you to play on?

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:23 pm
by Atlanta-Ned
I'd play on Basil more (and view it as a viable alternative to Sybil) if the population was in that sweet spot of like, more then 20 but less than 60 people. As long as it's "the overflow server", it's gonna stay that way. Especially with the population caps being what they are.

I think at this rate, the "Basil is for metafriends" schtick is too ingrained in the community's culture to get rid of it. Scrap the Basil/Sybil names and give them something new entirely. Don't even announce it, just do it one day and enjoy the ensuing meltdown.

Or we can keep circlejerking over metagangs.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:24 pm
by Wyzack
Basil hasn't been called basil since the NT days, most just still call it that because it is the most well known name

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:06 pm
by Remie Richards
Atlanta-Ned wrote: Scrap the Basil/Sybil names and give them something new entirely. Don't even announce it, just do it one day and enjoy the ensuing meltdown.
Wouldn't work.
The button positions were swapped, and people still went to Sybil.
The name "Sybil" may as well just be a title, Sybil is highpop+box, the highpop tends to move to box, so whichever server that is, will become Sybil in spirit.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:06 pm
by Bluespace
I was never in support of basil being shut down but I think with sybil population not being an issue and basil being empty all the time it's time we accept sybil as our only station.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:58 am
by Scones
mercy killing

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:10 am
by tuypo1
lumipharon wrote: There is a big fucking difference between getting to knowing people (which is what anyone with atleast the mental capacity of a toaster will achieve), and actually metafriending. ie: Knowing Dick McTickler always starts fights, so when someone accuses him of assault, you're more inclined to believe them. As opposed to: hearing that Dick McTicker and someone are in a fight, so you run over and beat the other person to death without any context.
Indeed to use an example from another server over on d20 we have lone lee being really touchy around silicons so the ai knows to be careful around him it's not a perfect example because the crew on a larger server would stop the ai killers shit but the basic idea of saying somebody should not use what they know about somebody's personality being stupid remains the same.

And in my experience almost all use of prior knowledge of a character is people having negative opinions of somebody for instance I spend far less time getting zoey Webb to cooperate in interrogation then anybody else and she ends up in perma far more rapidly for it.

Some might say that that just goes from metafriending to metagrudging but there's a difrence between searching a clown known for shaving people bald if you see broken mirrors or missing shavers and just instantly arresting them without evidence or giving them a 10 minuite sentence for shaving people when you would give anybody else 2.

Anybody except for a clown, mime, Borg or ai using a static name is stupid anyway but if your going to have it on a server you have to accept there will be effects on the game.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:21 am
by tuypo1
Wyzack wrote:You forgot the most likely scenario, where the round generates a single changeling, tatorling or traitor, they go loud and get killed 10 minutes in and then we get another pseudo extended. We really need more admin presence on server 2
And of course if those killed don't get revived there out of the round for 3+ hours it's the only situation where people auctualy have a reason to complain about low pop murderboner.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:07 am
by Not-Dorsidarf
Despite being a long-term basil player, I really think it's become superfluous now. Nobody is interested in it, so why keep it?Also now boxaholics cant just foist the cool maps off on the server where nobody sees them.

Also: The irony of ERP unbanning killing basil.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:43 pm
by PickleInspector
Took all the thrill out, don't you know.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:05 am
by tuypo1
Problem is if we ditch basil we loss the superior map. map rotation could work but we all know byond has a tendency to wipe its cache and make users redox load the game how much data would the actual map file add it could really fuck over rural Australians who can't spare the bandwidth.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:10 am
by tuypo1
It might help to make messages to centcom/the syndicate and prayers to go through to ooc like ahelps do

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:30 am
by PKPenguin321
tuypo1 wrote:Problem is if we ditch basil we loss the superior map. map rotation could work but we all know byond has a tendency to wipe its cache and make users redox load the game how much data would the actual map file add it could really fuck over rural Australians who can't spare the bandwidth.
map preference is entirely objective by nature, don't use it as subjective evidence

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:36 am
by Steelpoint
Fucking over rural Australians is already targeting a very specific niche of a already small population.

Not to mention, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, barely 2.6% of people live in remote or very remote areas. This goes to around 11% if you include outer regional areas (ABS, 2004).

-----
References

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2004). How many people live in Australia's remote areas?. (No.1301.0). Canberra, ACT: Author.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:57 am
by tuypo1
Steelpoint wrote:Fucking over rural Australians is already targeting a very specific niche of a already small population.

Not to mention, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, barely 2.6% of people live in remote or very remote areas. This goes to around 11% if you include outer regional areas (ABS, 2004).

-----
References

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2004). How many people live in Australia's remote areas?. (No.1301.0). Canberra, ACT: Author.
I suppose your right there
PKPenguin321 wrote:[quote="tuypo1]
map preference is entirely objective by nature, don't use it as subjective evidence
[/quote]
I would say it's pretty relevant I can't be the only one who prefers the map of bagel but the pop of Sybil

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:14 am
by Not-Dorsidarf
tuypo1 wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Fucking over rural Australians is already targeting a very specific niche of a already small population.

Not to mention, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, barely 2.6% of people live in remote or very remote areas. This goes to around 11% if you include outer regional areas (ABS, 2004).

-----
References

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2004). How many people live in Australia's remote areas?. (No.1301.0). Canberra, ACT: Author.
I suppose your right there
PKPenguin321 wrote:[quote="tuypo1]
map preference is entirely objective by nature, don't use it as subjective evidence
I would say it's pretty relevant I can't be the only one who prefers the map of bagel but the pop of Sybil[/quote][/quote][/quote]

MSO has been working on map rotation for weeks.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:17 pm
by tuypo1
oh it will be interesting to see how that turns out then

im surprised to here its something that would take more then 2 minuites but you know byond

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:29 am
by Not-Dorsidarf
tuypo1 wrote:oh it will be interesting to see how that turns out then

im surprised to here its something that would take more then 2 minuites but you know byond
You can't code this in BYOND apparently, he's hooking it to an external program between rounds

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:44 am
by Tornadium
Remove Basil 2015.

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:07 pm
by MrStonedOne
<TheGhostOfWhibyl1> [-tg-station] MrStonedOne opened pull request #12089: HOLY FUCKING SHIT, I'VE DONE IT! Map rotation! (master...maprotation) https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12089

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:23 pm
by Tornadium
MSO #1

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:36 pm
by QuartzCrystal
Remove Basil 2015

Re: Do we really need Basil?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:49 pm
by Wyzack
I am so tired of fighting against all the anti basil rhetoric. Go ahead and fucking kill it then. I hope that it improves your sybil experience somehow you assholes.