Re: Statement from the Headmin Team 30/06
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:41 am
Bottom post of the previous page:
sorry it should say admin lackey, not anime lackey, the two are just so confusable to me these days.Bottom post of the previous page:
sorry it should say admin lackey, not anime lackey, the two are just so confusable to me these days.If you're talking about the one MSO talked about, investigation revealed it was someone known for making dumb edgy jokes in a discord where people make dumb edgy jokes all the time.Dax Dupont wrote:There were threats/"""jokes""" about swatting the headmins yes. There's screenshots of this.Toronto88 wrote:was there any actual "raiding" or "doxxing" or anything like that which stemmed from this event? From what I saw Goof told his story and people got offended by how he was treated and came in and spoke their mind. Somehow to the people on the receiving end of this criticism this translates to threatening them IRLoranges wrote:That's stupid, part of being in a community is getting them to act when people don't do things you like and that requires publically dragging things up.
What kind of brain dead anime lackey thinks its' a good idea to codify that it's not okay to get people involved in your cause over something that you think is wrong or unjust.
It's more than satisfactory to say that threatening real life repercussions over the game will be a blacklist-able offence and leave it at that.
Rustledjimm wrote:On Tuesday morning, Ausops asked the headmins if they would veto a rule 0 ban from the server, he was told that we would not veto that. Then Ausops informed MSO that he would additionally be placing a forum ban on goofball (headmins have no say in forum administration except FNR and Admin subforums.) Later in the day, Ausops came forward and clarified that the ban reason was a combination of a rule 0/1 and the previous threat made by Goofball (which was not pursued four months ago due to concerns regarding the victim's safety.) Immediately, we became concerned since we know what can happen when accusations and doxxing can get out of hand, I’m sure you will all remember incidents such as the Boston Bomber where someone innocent died after digg “investigated” and accused them of committing the bombing.
these are reversed, I confirmed my game ban wasn't applied until after the forum ban(which makes the statement of the rule 0 being "extended" to the forums seem suspect)Ausops applied a ban from the server (tgstation game) for something related to the forums. I have no idea why goof was banned from the game for this.
Ausops then gives him a complete forum ban.
CitrusGender wrote:From how the situation was explained to us, it was not pursued four months ago because of fear of retribution against the victim. I originally thought the ban was a rule 0/1 at first but then I realized it was something different after the ban was added.
I don't think Ausops acted correctly with your situation Starmute. There is no reason to make threats in PMs to 'not pretend to be friendly and helpful.' We do not tolerate such type of behavior.
To clear some confusion: Goof was never blacklisted nor, to my knowledge, considered for blacklisting.starmute wrote:1. The Admin team blacklisted Goof without checking up on any of the facts of the case, making a collective colossal/titanic error in judgement to blacklist someone (our worst punishment) without consulting any of the individuals and relying on Ausops words alone
starmute wrote:
Additionally, and sorry Sawge for mentioning this... you didn't investigate to see if Goofball's claims were true. If you're going to lynch someone for making a claim then you should at least take a look at the claim.
So they investigated just enough to see the threat, but not the broader conversation, nor the actual resolution of the conflict?Rustledjimm wrote:starmute wrote:
Additionally, and sorry Sawge for mentioning this... you didn't investigate to see if Goofball's claims were true. If you're going to lynch someone for making a claim then you should at least take a look at the claim.
I am going to step in quickly and say that this is a rather disgusting piece of assumption. It was looked into well before goofball even made the threatening comment in the OP because the rumours had been spread by himself and a few people prior to the threat.
edit: I don't have time to answer all your questions just now I will get around to that later but I felt strongly that this was an incredibly terrible assumption to make.
starmute wrote:Rustledjimm wrote:On Tuesday morning, Ausops asked the headmins if they would veto a rule 0 ban from the server, he was told that we would not veto that. Then Ausops informed MSO that he would additionally be placing a forum ban on goofball (headmins have no say in forum administration except FNR and Admin subforums.) Later in the day, Ausops came forward and clarified that the ban reason was a combination of a rule 0/1 and the previous threat made by Goofball (which was not pursued four months ago due to concerns regarding the victim's safety.) Immediately, we became concerned since we know what can happen when accusations and doxxing can get out of hand, I’m sure you will all remember incidents such as the Boston Bomber where someone innocent died after digg “investigated” and accused them of committing the bombing.
Ausops applied a ban from the server (tgstation game) for something related to the forums. I have no idea why goof was banned from the game for this.
Ausops then gives him a complete forum ban.
*Apparently the order of this was reversed the forum ban was applied then the game ban. Regardless I'm just repeating jims information that he posted.
Ausops then gives you the dets of something that happened 4 months ago. Sawge is in clear and present danger after 4 months of goofball making a comment about him posting something that was in bad taste on the internet even though it has been a quarter of a year and change.
Goof gets blacklisted.
THE VERY SAME DAY (maybe at the same time?)
I posted a thread that was about consolidating current admin policies, adding official forum and discord feedback to admin feedback forum (wew and is it apparent we need it after this), and expanding server rules to define what happens during sexual harassment issues.
Ausops tells me to go fuck myself in the forums, when I say what the hell he tells me he'll ban me from the community.
Forward it to headmins, they say they'll look into it, tell me I've done nothing wrong and ausops isn't can't ban me for what I said despite his threat.
Afterwards I hear about some shit Ausops did to Anon recently. Jesus christ.
So I guess my questions are these
1. Why was there a clear and present danger to sawge after 4 months?
2. What did goof do ingame that justified his game ban because of a forum problem?
3. After looking into the initial information at hand (that the issue was 4 months old) why didn't you investigate it together.
4. Concerning Anon and my own issues poping up at the same time: wouldn't that tip you off something was wrong?
5. Why is everyone using the phrase "bad faith" like it is a buisness buzzword. Why not say "you intended to lie to us"?
6. Why didn't you "consult" the "victim" before making a ban about something that happened 4 months ago?
7. Do you beleve Ausops mislead you about the timing of all this (IE Goof criticizes Ausops, Ausops uses Goof's arguement with Sawge 4 months ago as a catylst to get Goof banned) Did he tell you that this was a issue over a quarter of a year old?
8. Is Ausops being punished any way for breaking admin policy, forum rules, carrying out a ventetta plus acting like a schoolyard bully? Or is Ausops going to just slide on this one and keep being a "gamemaster", a rank that is confered to people who are supposed to be role-models to other admins
9. Did you/ Do you believe that Sawge was better protected by picking a fight with Goofball 4 months after the fact for something that may have been illegal (I mean not to be a ass about it but it was a argument on discord about Sawge posting something that Goof felt was inappropriate), that was used as evidence for Goof's banning out of context and without the "victims" knowledge.
10. Do you think this could have been avoided?
I'm a pessimist so here's my prediction:
So ultimately here's how it pans out for me and what I see happening. Ausops, like it or not has too many connections here and will remain a gamemaster and won't even get a slap on the wrist. We'll make a big hubabloo about issues here but ultimately we're going to not "error on the side of caution" and prevent another accident like this but instead double down on our faults. Older players will be annoyed by the administration and take long hiatuses after which admins will tell them their opinion doesn't matter because they haven't played the game (Happens constantly already). So unless the team steps up.. I don't see what is being done to prevent a issue like this where a player was blacklisted for a comment they made 4 months ago due to the vendetta of a Gamemaster.
Jim. I respect you but honestly... I don't see how the head administrators just "bought the Brooklyn bridge" here. It still seems fishy and leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. The whole thing with it being 4 months ago should have set off red flags and at least called for a investigation with the victim (and Goofballs) side of the story before a out and out blacklist. If Ausops was lying to you or omited that it wasn't 4 months ago then he probably deserves to be kicked off the Admin team at the very least, if it was your fault and you didn't investigate... I don't know what to say. I like this community thats why I keep coming back but when the admin team acts like this it makes me not want to play (then I get shit for not playing ironicly)
Anyways... please do better admin team.
I've heard it stated by multiple people that goof was totally full of shit about the whole incident/image in question and was just starting shit to annoy sawrge when the alleged threat was mentioned. I dont know how accurate that is but do keep that in mindawesine wrote:sonic says:captain sawrge wrote: Last February a few people including Goof accused me of being a pedophile over some hentai image I posted elsewhere
digital pedophilia is still pedophilia
that was mostly disinformation and it was mostly because people disagree on what is and isn't legal. (I think it's also state/country dependent whether it is or isnt)Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I've heard it stated by multiple people that goof was totally full of shit about the whole incident/image in question and was just starting shit to annoy sawrge when the alleged threat was mentioned. I dont know how accurate that is but do keep that in mindawesine wrote:sonic says:captain sawrge wrote: Last February a few people including Goof accused me of being a pedophile over some hentai image I posted elsewhere
digital pedophilia is still pedophilia
Asking if the situation had any validity to begin with is important. Considering Sawge admitted it was questionable art it shouldn't be a "how dare you", especially since we are talking about banning someone from the forums, the discord and the game. Sawge made a extremely stupid mistake posting that shit online.Rustledjimm wrote:starmute wrote:
Additionally, and sorry Sawge for mentioning this... you didn't investigate to see if Goofball's claims were true. If you're going to lynch someone for making a claim then you should at least take a look at the claim.
I am going to step in quickly and say that this is a rather disgusting piece of assumption. It was looked into by the previous team well before goofball even made the threatening comment in the OP because the rumours had been spread by himself and a few people prior to the threat.
edit: I don't have time to answer all your questions just now I will get around to that later but I felt strongly that this was an incredibly awful assumption to make.
>Comment on things the admins involved themselves admit were a huge fuck upstarmute wrote:Asking if the situation had any validity to begin with is important. Considering Sawge admitted it was questionable art it shouldn't be a "how dare you", especially since we are talking about banning someone from the forums, the discord and the game. Sawge made a extremely stupid mistake posting that shit online.Rustledjimm wrote:starmute wrote:
Additionally, and sorry Sawge for mentioning this... you didn't investigate to see if Goofball's claims were true. If you're going to lynch someone for making a claim then you should at least take a look at the claim.
I am going to step in quickly and say that this is a rather disgusting piece of assumption. It was looked into by the previous team well before goofball even made the threatening comment in the OP because the rumours had been spread by himself and a few people prior to the threat.
edit: I don't have time to answer all your questions just now I will get around to that later but I felt strongly that this was an incredibly awful assumption to make.
I believe this text, or a shortened version of it, should be:MrStonedOne wrote:Going forward, it is a non-stop trip to the blacklist the next time somebody threatens to dox/swat anybody, encourages or incites it, or even so much as publically shows glee that somebody is the target of doxing or swatting; as well as any related activities that involve doing things with the knowledge of personal information, be it contacting their work or friends or family (outside of contacting authorities to report a crime) or finding somebody's personal info (such as a personal twitter account) then taunting them with the knowledge (publically or over pm). I don't care if you find out the guy is an axe murder on the run, or a pervert with a foot fetish who works at a nail salon, the penalty remains the same.
Because bringing this up again could cause reactions again. There's a reason goofball wasn't banned 4 months ago, incase he or someone who he rallied to his side decided to carry out the threat. It's entirely possible the same situation could happen again even 4 months later. Call it an "edgy joke discord" all you want but someone on Hippie literally stated "Let's apop Citrus or another headmin". I don't care if that's an edgy joke or not. When I hear that I'm not thinking "oh haha someone is joking about doxxing me". If it was found out this was partially over sawrge he could certainly be at danger of the original threat.1. Why was there a clear and present danger to sawrge after 4 months?
Because something as serious as a threat to dox as MSO has even stated in this thread is a one-way ticket to blacklisting, forum, discord, server, all. Whether you agree or disagree whether goofball actually meant it or not a threat was made.2. What did goof do ingame that justified his game ban because of a forum discord problem?
I was informed of the situation by the former headmin team, one of which was on this terms headmin team, when we took over in march. The situation was looked into however it was deemed too dangerous to ban goofball over it incase of reprisals against sawrge.3. After looking into the initial information at hand (that the issue was 4 months old) why didn't you investigate it together.
As I stated previously I'm not happy with the way Ausops has been handling things lately. I'm not happy with myself at the way we handled this.4. Concerning Anon and my own issues poping up at the same time: wouldn't that tip you off something was wrong?
Sorry, we witheld certain vital information about the ban because we were worried about the real life situation to a member of our community. We made a mistake.5. Why is everyone using the phrase "bad faith" like it is a buisness buzzword. Why not say "you intended to lie to us"?
We should have done. We have consulted a few times with sawrge about re-adminning him as he says in his statement but we never discussed the ban before it happened which is our mistake.6. Why didn't you "consult" the "victim" before making a ban about something that happened 4 months ago?
He told me that it was a rule 0/1 ban for his general behaviour including the incident 4 months ago.7. Do you beleve Ausops mislead you about the timing of all this (IE Goof criticizes Ausops, Ausops uses Goof's arguement with Sawge 4 months ago as a catylst to get Goof banned) Did he tell you that this was a issue over a quarter of a year old?
With the third headmin now in place we will certain be discussing and voting on what to do with Ausops very soon.8. Is Ausops being punished any way for breaking admin policy, forum rules, carrying out a ventetta plus acting like a schoolyard bully? Or is Ausops going to just slide on this one and keep being a "gamemaster", a rank that is confered to people who are supposed to be role-models to other admins
At the time what I saw in goof was someone who had threatened another member of the community with losing their job. That is what I saw in him at the time. I believed I was acting to protect the community as a whole. In hindsight it was handled terribly.
9. Did you/ Do you believe that Sawge was better protected by picking a fight with Goofball 4 months after the fact for something that may have been illegal (I mean not to be a ass about it but it was a argument on discord about Sawge posting something that Goof felt was inappropriate), that was used as evidence for Goof's banning out of context and without the "victims" knowledge.
Oh many times. Looking back on it this will be one of those, if not the, moment(s) that I will regret the most during this term.
10. Do you think this could have been avoided?
You say this, but having experienced someone bringing my real life into a game unrelated to it without giving them any reason to even care about me is scary.awesine wrote:"""""""""""""jokes""""""""""""""Dax Dupont wrote:There were threats/"""jokes""" about swatting the headmins yes. There's screenshots of this.Toronto88 wrote:was there any actual "raiding" or "doxxing" or anything like that which stemmed from this event? From what I saw Goof told his story and people got offended by how he was treated and came in and spoke their mind. Somehow to the people on the receiving end of this criticism this translates to threatening them IRLoranges wrote:That's stupid, part of being in a community is getting them to act when people don't do things you like and that requires publically dragging things up.
What kind of brain dead anime lackey thinks its' a good idea to codify that it's not okay to get people involved in your cause over something that you think is wrong or unjust.
It's more than satisfactory to say that threatening real life repercussions over the game will be a blacklist-able offence and leave it at that.
the above is a joke in itself
That's pretty scary, I've had the same and been made fun of by an entire community on one of the highest pop games on byond. It's not fun. But I feel like this is a false equivalency and is clearly not what transpired after MULTIPLE months have passed.Nabski wrote: You say this, but having experienced someone bringing my real life into a game unrelated to it without giving them any reason to even care about me is scary.
It's fucking pathetic how people do this shit over a 2d game. It's even more pathetic how this has to factor into punishing someone or not because Lord Dickface may fuck over the lives of other people. If what someone did is truly illegal then just contact the fucking authorities.Rustledjimm wrote:Because bringing this up again could cause reactions again. There's a reason goofball wasn't banned 4 months ago, incase he or someone who he rallied to his side decided to carry out the threat. It's entirely possible the same situation could happen again even 4 months later. Call it an "edgy joke discord" all you want but someone on Hippie literally stated "Let's apop Citrus or another headmin". I don't care if that's an edgy joke or not. When I hear that I'm not thinking "oh haha someone is joking about doxxing me". If it was found out this was partially over sawrge he could certainly be at danger of the original threat.
arent you 15?awesine wrote:
edit: also isn't sawrge only like 15 shouldn't they be banned
76Shadowflame909 wrote:How old is 15 in dog years to human years Nilons. answer me this
Depends on where you're from.BeeSting12 wrote:Theres no 30th month of the year. You posted this on June 30th, so it would be 6/30. Youre welcome for fixing the typo <3
Sawrge has been 15 for as long as I've known him. The guy's an anomaly, he doesn't age.awesine wrote: edit: also isn't sawrge only like 15 shouldn't they be banned
This is the loveliest solution. G00F apologize for joking about "doxing" Also Ausops u apologize 2. U hab lost many trusts in the non-admin part of the communityCreationPro wrote: As for the situation at hand, I think everyone fucked up a little but nothing a few "sorry I fucked up lmao"s can't fix, right?
In the end, no one got doxxed and I hope a few lessons were learned like "wew Ausops chill, don't ban people 4 months after an incident lol" and "Goofball don't be such a goofball lol"
The fuck kinda retarded garbage are you spewing? Sawrge's been around for at least 6 years. Are you telling me he started playing when he was 9?awesine wrote: edit: also isn't sawrge only like 15 shouldn't they be banned
he did it all for free at the age of 9 when he's smarter than all of us combined rip what a heroFrozenGuy5 wrote:yes? sawrge actually has 140iq
arent you perma banned lolawesine wrote:noNilons wrote:arent you 15?awesine wrote:
edit: also isn't sawrge only like 15 shouldn't they be banned
I remember I pmed a headmin about it back in the day.Qbmax32 wrote:“Sawrge is 15” is honestly the best meme of our time
he is and he's banned from other communities like goon and hippie.BeeSting12 wrote:arent you perma banned lolawesine wrote:noNilons wrote:arent you 15?awesine wrote:
edit: also isn't sawrge only like 15 shouldn't they be banned
Just to clarify, they're no longer banned on Goonstation.FrozenGuy5 wrote: he is and he's banned from other communities like goon and hippie.
>about to reply to oranges that he is referring to awesineoranges wrote:swarge or goof?
make sure to include their entire signatureShezza wrote:include my post in the digg post
hipaprika wrote:2d spaceman game
Back! back to the abyss!paprika wrote:2d spaceman game
COME Back pleasepaprika wrote:2d spaceman game
This edit done on the 9th of this month, while funny, contained important information relevant to the incident and is needed in the event of any future admins, head admins, or hosts for the server needing to cross-reference this thread for his take on the issue. While the edit in relations to the catpeople memes is hillarious, this is pretty important for people needing to cross-reference the situation if they intend to make a ruling on this matter or related matter.captain sawrge wrote:suk ma dam dick n balls goof