/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Neither wanting lizards to be second class with a definite roleplaying niche nor wanting them to just be weirdo generic aliens is autistic. Both ideas have merit. One creates a definite RP niche, where as the other allows lizards to be used as generic aliens with "insert your own fluff."

Of course aliens should never just be re-skinned humans. The idea of an alien race is to do something with them you can't do normally with a human. Second class citizen works and I really like the dynamic. Creates some interesting play.

The United Earth Government stands triumphant. Human authority was re enabled a while ago.

Just as a reminder.

another big issue i have with lizard rights is that its really easy to see the slippery slope it could lead to
i'm fairly confident that we'll never get catpeople or anything like that, but becoming more accepting of furry/scaly/whatever culture isnt good for our image or our playerbase. just look at baystation. even with erp banned, a huge portion of their population is furfags. of that portion, quite a few are total creeps. i've been there and seen them, its not fun.
i highly doubt (hope) we'll ever reach that level of shit, but its still something to think about. what am i saying our server host thinks hes a werewolf we were doomed from the start

If you want to promote IC hatred against lizards, you should be allowing the hatred to backfire.

This promotes killings.

remove the fucking lizard 2015 mousepeople 2015 when?

Scott wrote:If you want to promote IC hatred against lizards, you should be allowing the hatred to backfire.

This promotes killings.

Its already a rule you lizard playing subhuman

I think its funny how some people always talk about how they would like to see a little more roleplay, but than they complain when they have to play the role of their non-human character.

Mappers need to start segregating the bathrooms on their maps.

miggles wrote:another big issue i have with lizard rights is that its really easy to see the slippery slope it could lead to
i'm fairly confident that we'll never get catpeople or anything like that, but becoming more accepting of furry/scaly/whatever culture isnt good for our image or our playerbase. just look at baystation. even with erp banned, a huge portion of their population is furfags. of that portion, quite a few are total creeps. i've been there and seen them, its not fun.
i highly doubt (hope) we'll ever reach that level of shit, but its still something to think about. what am i saying our server host thinks hes a werewolf we were doomed from the start

For one, your last sentence says everything.
For another, this server has a good image? I never noticed until I played here.

As for Bay, the furfags are precisely the reason they have species whitelisting in place, so the average autist can't hiss or mrowl. Only the dedicated ones will be given permission.

DemonFiren wrote:

miggles wrote:another big issue i have with lizard rights is that its really easy to see the slippery slope it could lead to
i'm fairly confident that we'll never get catpeople or anything like that, but becoming more accepting of furry/scaly/whatever culture isnt good for our image or our playerbase. just look at baystation. even with erp banned, a huge portion of their population is furfags. of that portion, quite a few are total creeps. i've been there and seen them, its not fun.
i highly doubt (hope) we'll ever reach that level of shit, but its still something to think about. what am i saying our server host thinks hes a werewolf we were doomed from the start

For one, your last sentence says everything.
For another, this server has a good image? I never noticed until I played here.

As for Bay, the furfags are precisely the reason they have species whitelisting in place, so the average autist can't hiss or mrowl. Only the dedicated ones will be given permission.

Only the professional furries :^)

Loonikus wrote:I think its funny how some people always talk about how they would like to see a little more roleplay, but than they complain when they have to play the role of their non-human character.

I think that's a very small majority. Most of the lizardpeople i've come across enjoy the RP of being a lower class or banding together with there lizard breadbins.
From an actual in game point of view i've seen very few people complain about lizards as a playable character. Most of the hate and general banter seems to happen on the forums.

On a side note, the most lizard-related "racism" I came across during my games was when I was an AI and a lizard guy told me "I hate you because AIs hate lizards".

Really there seems to be a much bigger fuss about them on the forum than in the actual game.

I just wish that lizardpeople received some sort of advantage for the downsides-only gameplay. Everyone hates you (part of the roleplay), the Silicons can fully invoke law 3 on you (The Engineering borg is going to paint the airlocks with your blood!), and you can never be a true Head of Staff. I feel that lizardpeople should get something for that. We choose to limit ourselves, but does it need to be purely negative in nature?

Also, I am sad to see that our chance of adding more mutant races as a roundstart option are virtually zero given the state of our playerbase.

Gun Hog wrote:I just wish that lizardpeople received some sort of advantage for the downsides-only gameplay. Everyone hates you (part of the roleplay), the Silicons can fully invoke law 3 on you (The Engineering borg is going to paint the airlocks with your blood!), and you can never be a true Head of Staff. I feel that lizardpeople should get something for that. We choose to limit ourselves, but does it need to be purely negative in nature?

Also, I am sad to see that our chance of adding more mutant races as a roundstart option are virtually zero given the state of our playerbase.

You get to play as a lizardperson. That's your advantage, you lizard-loving scum

Gun Hog wrote:I just wish that lizardpeople received some sort of advantage for the downsides-only gameplay. Everyone hates you (part of the roleplay), the Silicons can fully invoke law 3 on you (The Engineering borg is going to paint the airlocks with your blood!), and you can never be a true Head of Staff. I feel that lizardpeople should get something for that. We choose to limit ourselves, but does it need to be purely negative in nature?

Also, I am sad to see that our chance of adding more mutant races as a roundstart option are virtually zero given the state of our playerbase.

Not to mention, the autohissing has a tendency to fuck up tcomms scripting. Not sure about voice changers, never used those.
Problem is, most of those drawbacks are too situational for any mechanical benefit to balance them out.

I am, however, not sure how much of an advantage the lizardbar effect is, that is, the phenomenon that all lizards inevitably collaborate when needed and usually stick together fairly tight.

Gun Hog wrote:I just wish that lizardpeople received some sort of advantage for the downsides-only gameplay. Everyone hates you (part of the roleplay), the Silicons can fully invoke law 3 on you (The Engineering borg is going to paint the airlocks with your blood!), and you can never be a true Head of Staff. I feel that lizardpeople should get something for that. We choose to limit ourselves, but does it need to be purely negative in nature?

Also, I am sad to see that our chance of adding more mutant races as a roundstart option are virtually zero given the state of our playerbase.

they do get something.
they get to play their furry dreams and also be a speshul snowflake while they're at it

that's it, that's the only thing they deserve.

Having their own language may be interesing.

May even give a excuse to use a universal translator more often.

Suddenly, new space law:

Minor Crime: Speaking in Lizard Tongue

Own language I can sssupport.

Also, Minor Crime: Being dumb enough not to run a recorder over that liztalk.

the whole point of lizards was originally that you just play a person with nothing but downsides compared to normal humans
when brainstorming for new races was still a thing, the plan was to make them for more experienced players as a handicap
not just green people who talk like snakes in a disney cartoon

I like the idea of Lizardpeople having their own language. Some way to easily swap between the two would be nice as well!

Ikarrus wrote:Suddenly, new space law:

Minor Crime: Speaking in Lizard Tongue

Gonna be Sec, pass by two lizards talking in their cursed lesser tongue, immediately arrest them for disturbance of the peace with their ear-splitting shrieks, harassment because they were clearly talking offensively about proper human upstanding citizens such as I, and insubordination because this was a clear challenge to proper Aryan human authority, not to mention inciting a riot. I'll send em scurrying back into maintenance on all-fours to their breeding nests with my harmbaton imprint in their cheek-scales.

Justice is served.

Lizardpeople don't need balancing, that's the point
they don't need a tradeoff that equalizes the fact that they don't get to play heads.
they don't need any of that. you are choosing to play a character that is considered below human.

Don't give any species at all any mechanical edge, don't make it like that bay bullshit where the catpeople can hit you with the force of a toolbox, just keep them as aesthetic changes with a minor different like communication.

why is this even still open for debate

to quote the image posted earlier
scale nigger go home


you get nothing and if a lizard language is implemented you had damn well better speak nanotrasen english when others are around under threat of brig time

Aleph wrote:Don't give any species at all any mechanical edge

exactly this but also no communication advantage because that will be abused as fuck

>subhuman
People throw that around a lot when it doesn't really work. Non-human doesn't mean the same thing as sub-human. The wiki snippet people cling to as "evidence" only denotes that NT doesn't trust them in those positions because NT is primarily and mostly a human organization. Starfleet bases aren't run by Romulans the same way NT stations aren't run by lizards. Its not racism, its basic politics. (Surprising nobody, the United States doesn't have a president from France or Italy.)

Also, all these guys rushing to a wiki article written by Steelpoint (with his own interpretation of "canon" which doesn't really exist in /tg/ anyway since our lore is intentionally not concrete) to confirm their biases. I could as easily rewrite the wiki page to remove the "but lizards can't be heads of staff because reasons!" line and it would have the same force of canon.

The fact that so many people are in here sperging to have a means to act out their need to be racist in game against X (in this case lizards) is really weird anyway. "Yeah man, I play this game on the Internet about being a racist jerk to lizardpeople. Its totally cool." What.

Difference is I put up a community vote BEFORE I made any change to our lore.

The vote passed, thus that entry is part of our lore.

yes because lizards are fags

Steelpoint wrote:Difference is I put up a community vote BEFORE I made any change to our lore.

The vote passed, thus that entry is part of our lore.

And yet we have a server toggle that has produced lizard captains and nothing ground to a halt.

danno wrote:yes because lizards are fags

With only a very few exceptions, I'd trust the lizard players I've seen not to be shitheads over most of the human players I've seen. Hands down.

Delicious wrote:Why is this even an issue? Is it so hard to treat lizards like you would human crewmembers?

do you treat people in fursuits the same as you would other people? same principle

Maccus wrote:

Delicious wrote:Why is this even an issue? Is it so hard to treat lizards like you would human crewmembers?

do you treat people in fursuits the same as you would other people? same principle

Do you treat black people the same way you would treat other people? same principle

Block them from signing up as heads only because people like the idiots posting in this thread will use their race as an excuse to mutiny and nobody would give a damn if Fucks-Self-With-Tail the Captain gets his head bashed in in the middle of the halls.

cedarbridge wrote:

Maccus wrote:

Delicious wrote:Why is this even an issue? Is it so hard to treat lizards like you would human crewmembers?

do you treat people in fursuits the same as you would other people? same principle

Do you treat black people the same way you would treat other people? same principle

>likening black people to people that wish to be animals

Okay cedar "ban-the-blackies brigade" bridge

Lizards are literally defined as subhuman. Black people are not, unless Violaceus is the one doing the defining usually.

Maccus wrote:Lizards are literally defined as subhuman. Black people are not

By whom where? If you're going to claim that something is defined a certain way that is clearly being contested, you should probably cite something to show that definition. Again, Not Human != Sub-human.

Also, you're mixing players playing lizards with the lizards as characters. I'm not my character, but I play a character. That doesn't make me a lizard, nor does it mean I want to be a lizard. It means I want to play a character that is a lizard.

Lizards being lizards is a defining racial identity for lizard characters. Being black is a defining racial trait for black people. I'm not sure why that's hard to follow really. I mean, if you want to be racist that's entirely up to you, but running around screaming "omg furries lol" because lizards is about as dumb as doing it about klingons or blacks.

Saying lizards are a race is a bit of a misuse of the word race. They are a different species.

Think of it like this. Lets say black people are Pit Bulls and white people are Golden Retrievers. Both are very different from each other, and they are different breeds with different qualities, but they are both still dogs no matter how different they seem. Likewise, blacks and whites may be different in many ways, but they are simply different breeds of the same species.

Continuing with the dog analogy, lets bring in a cat to represent the lizard. Do dogs and cats both have fur? Yes. Do dogs and cats both have four legs? Yes. Are cats dogs? No. Cats are not a different breed of dog, they are not dogs at all.


This ruling can't be used to make AIs slaughter black humans or white humans or asian humans or any humans. Despite their different "breeds," they are all objectively human. Lizards are objectively not human. So no, this really has nothing to do with race. This is specist, not racist.

Racism is bad.

Specism is fine in moderation.

Steelpoint wrote:Racism is bad.

Specism is fine in moderation.

If I shit on a player for being Is-A-Lizard for being a lizard or shit on Tyrone Jamalson for being black, the gameplay hasn't changed, just the window dressing used to justify it. That's what it really comes down to, how much of an excuse and how many excuses players need to be assholes to each other.

Sign them up for the gas chambers instead.

This thread is well and truly devolving into shitbaggotry.

If the community spergs itself like that over the fine points of the treatment of alien crew, then I can actually see why some policy and code changes are made without asking said community.

LIZARD DEFENSE FORCE IN FULL EFFECT, CALL SECURITY!

DemonFiren wrote:If the community spergs itself like that over the fine points of the treatment of alien crew, then I can actually see why some policy and code changes are made without asking said community.

Who the fuck are you?

I am the person associated with my user name, if that was a serious question.

I think people acts more racist towards the scaly menace in here than IC.

Personally I've never mistreated a lizardman IC, especially because there is usually one in botanics, and as a chef, you never mistreat your brotanics if you know what's good for you.

But still, I like the IC point of not allowing them to START as heads, the whole racism and discrimination point is to give a challenge and make more the round more entertaining.

As I said. In game people tend to either treat Lizards very well, or just throw out the occasional snark remark.

Polls pretty clear, discussion has been had, its already spiralling and nothing new is being added. Locking thread, hopefully the admins will put this config into effect on the server.

peoplearestrange wrote:hopefully the admins will put this config into effect on the server.

It's already been in effect for the past several days, announced on page 2.