/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I just felt the poll was fairly clear on the original question. But was unsure, hence why I asked and didn't just do it.

Cik wrote:the real issue with wizard is how abusable and stackable the escape spells are

if you just made wizard a master of CC with icewalls/firewalls/fireball/whatever spells it would be ok, but as it is most of them spam escape spells and it's just 30 minutes of chasing around some asshole with 3 teleports until someone lands a lucky baton and he dies.

it's fucking tiring man

i really agree with this.
it's probably the real problem and ei nath is getting undeserved flak, but idk what to do about it. ideas?

Introduce a TC like system for wizards where each spell has a different cost, make escape spells cost more and/or restrict the amount of escape spells you can take.

Just do that datum antags thing that was proposed and make wizard a part of it. The problem with wizard is that when the one person with power is really crap at their job, there's no excitement from anything else. But so long as there's a good wizard or some other antagonists, it's a great mode.

Miauw wrote:

Cik wrote:the real issue with wizard is how abusable and stackable the escape spells are

if you just made wizard a master of CC with icewalls/firewalls/fireball/whatever spells it would be ok, but as it is most of them spam escape spells and it's just 30 minutes of chasing around some asshole with 3 teleports until someone lands a lucky baton and he dies.

it's fucking tiring man

i really agree with this.
it's probably the real problem and ei nath is getting undeserved flak, but idk what to do about it. ideas?

new spells are needed that can effectively control large crowds without resorting to autoaim magic missile spam. spells that are already in that can do these things need to be buffed. if that does not do the trick, apply slight nerfs to magic missile and jaunt, which are the real offenders. make ei nath back to the way it used to be, it's just a symptom of the real problem is that teleport exit/entry is simply too easy for wizards and thus it's the only combo that's ever seen.

fireball and other direct destruction spells need to be more dangerous, and frankly i would add much larger versions of them like a meteor or ice comet spell, etc, long cooldown spells that cause enormous destruction like bombs and can quickly take out crowds. as it is teleport is abused so much because nothing else in the wizard kit can help your survival against the sort of threats you will be dealing with, that is, large quantities of stuns in the form of security and large disarm/knock/harm spam from assistant hordes.

you don't have to remove or change much, but there must be more options. unfortunately i guess adding only a few would require a reasonable amount of work but my suggestions are

meteor: blows up like a bomb, fireball writ large. slow moving projectile but okay range. can quickly kill grouped targets
color spray: short range, very low cooldown cone stun with moderate length. allows control of near-wizard area
cone of cold: chills the air very quickly in cone in front of the wizard, slowing down chasers. moderate cooldown
firewall: creates ethereal fire, can be used to block off hallways, maintenance tunnels or other places people are running after you. long cooldown.

spells that may need a nerf: MM, jaunt

MM: simply is too braindead too use, nearly unavoidably stuns everything nearby, including sillicons. allows ei nath abuse because suddenly everything is an immobile completely helpless target. the only real reason ei nath is actually used at all. no real counterplay or skill involved if it stays it should be inferior to more skill-based, shorter range or cone stun spells, if it goes it should be replaced by the former.


jaunt: simply the most powerful spell the wizard has, immense teleporting range, incorporeal meanwhile, and doesn't seem to have a downside. grants effectively unlimited access, allows perfect ei nath ambushes, and nearly uncounterable escape spell.

as far as i'm concerned pretty much everything else the wizard kit has is flatly inferior to ei nath, MM, jaunt. and 90% of wizards seem to agree with me to be honest.

edit: i guess the real implicit problem is that the wizard simply cannot use anything other than escape wizard if he wants to take on any real percentage of the station at a time and survive. the hope is that through tweaking other styles will become possible. i mean, there is more to the wizard or sorceror than simple autoaim stun, all purpose teleport and touch explode spell. why aren't ranged blaster wizards, crowd control wizards, enchantment wizards, or illusion wizards a thing? seems like the mode doesn't explore even a fraction of the potential.

Fixing wizard in two steps:

1st: Reduce wizard chance by a lot
2nd: Remove summon guns and summon magic spells

SoS?

Steelpoint wrote:Introduce a TC like system for wizards where each spell has a different cost, make escape spells cost more and/or restrict the amount of escape spells you can take.

This

Ahammer18 wrote: a huge and unnecessary clusterfuck of murder

That's the entire point. Wizard round are quick, chaotic, fun rounds that serve as a break from the tedium of longer, more drawn out rounds.

Cik wrote:new spells are needed that can effectively control large crowds without resorting to autoaim magic missile spam.

>what is repulse

not really in favour of removing the mode but PLEASE reduce the occurrence.

11.6% wizard rounds is way too much.

set it to 7%.

CPTANT wrote:not really in favour of removing the mode but PLEASE reduce the occurrence.

11.6% wizard rounds is way too much.

set it to 7%.

> not 50%

Do NOT remove wizard, but lower the chance of the roundtype being wizard. It's something obscene like 10.4%, and it used to be even higher. It should be on-par with blob and so forth.

Luke Cox wrote:

Ahammer18 wrote: a huge and unnecessary clusterfuck of murder

That's the entire point. Wizard round are quick, chaotic, fun rounds that serve as a break from the tedium of longer, more drawn out rounds.

You've never seen the stalemate 40-60 minute long rounds of the wizard recalling the shuttle every time?

I think wizard rounds should have lowered probability.