/tg/Station 13

Jerry Derpington has now been in the .txt as a Trial Admin for almost three months now.

Please use this thread as public review; it's encouraged for players to comment on how well/badly the trial admin has done and whether or not they think the trial admin should be made a full admin, if they should be removed from the .txt or if their promotion should be delayed.

CitrusGender stole my thread.

What are you gonna do steal my next thread too? Are you gonna steal this post? Whats safe anymore?

Friendly and and one of the hardest working admins (maybe a bit too hard, he gets down on himself sometimes and he will burn out at this pace)

But he does a ton of events, many of which are immersion breaking (and centcomm announced at that, so tough to ignore) or round derailing such as CIA from TDKR waiting in Rebee, giant sentient gondolas, pulse rifle skeleton war, etc. Tiring when it feels like the majority of prime time rounds are playing an admins minigame rather than SS13.

I think his heart in the right place and he makes the server a better place for lots of players, but he makes it less enjoyable for me personally.

Glad I do not have to make this decision.

Kor wrote:pulse rifle skeleton war

but he makes it less enjoyable for me personally.

Glad I do not have to make this decision.

pulse rifle skeleton war? i dont remember ever giving skeletons pulse rifles. I don't even remember a skeleton war either, to be honest. If it was a round where everything was fucked then I feel like I would remember that otherwise that sounds like something worthy of deadminning. Only time I can remember handing out 'pulse rifles' was a bunch of chameleon guns that were reskinned and couldn't be changed. It got boring so I deleted them all. Either I have amnesia, someone else did it, or you just said that as an example and I'm thinking too deep into this.

I'm sorry about making it less fun for you, though.

Jerry deserves GameAdmin, or at the very least an extension. He's friendly, hard-working, cares, and he clearly likes the job.

I do have some notes though.

Running a lot of events makes it easy to spend a lot of hours a day administrating and eventing at the same time which is a lot of extra workload. That generally means you won't be playing as much, and your fun relies on other people having fun, which is hard to guarantee. It can make burning out pretty easy as Kor mentioned.

Also, even when you're the only admin on the server, you're not the only admin on the server. When you run four events in a day, and there's that eventmin group, including myself, running a few events each, it overwhelms the server and makes random stuff the new norm.

Anyway my advice is:
Make sure you still play a bit especially when there are other admins online. Find fun in the standard game.

Please respect immersion. We struggle to keep people RPing already. Central Command Updates are not a global admin message to players, it's the station's in-universe boss. They should not be omnipresent, conversational and extremely frequent. Give the crew room to deceive them and room to make mistakes with a lack of information or miscommunication. Try to avoid spawning stuff in front of players where possible. If you want to run minigames, use the holodeck. You can edit existing holodeck templates and then call them in all at once it works pretty nicely.

Don't overload yourself. If you're running an event that's taking attention away from ahelps, call another admin to give you a hand rather than try to do everything and slip up. I'm guilty of this too, there's plenty of admins who'll hop on for half an hour to give you a hand.

I don't think I've run into any trouble with you, so hopefully this won't come across as biased at all.
From what I've seen of you, and heard from a couple people, you're very button and event heavy, as has been pointed out above.
I think you're certainly a good and capable administrator, you seem eager to mesh with the playerbase, and that's probably needed nowadays, however, I haven't personally interacted with you too much, so I can't sing your praises on something I don't know a lot about.
Events, when done right, are fun, often spawn spin-offs, can even spawn memes (medical wrench), or otherwise actually impact the round much more than first thought. Players will happily abuse event items for their own ends, and often at the expense of other players. As for yourself, you have a whole host of buttons at your command, and it can be tempting to run event after event to try and increase player enjoyment. The issue is, however, is that sometimes, it's just nice to play the game, chill out, and not have 50 CentComm announcements telling me how gay wizard changelings are attacking the crew with rocket powered dildos. I've had one person mention to me that they err towards the side of observing when you're on, since they feel a normal round is unlikely. You aren't the first admin to do this by far, and in some ways, it's natural for you to want to use this huge and massive power given to you, I know I certainly did at some point.

To sum up, you'll make a good admin if you continue to honestly enjoy the game and not burn out, but tone down the large events. Try picking one or two players and trying to interact with them in an immersion-filled roleplay event. Maybe they find a lucky coin that grants wishes? (But at the cost of an organ each!) I'm sure you can think something up.

Just don't be HBL 2.0.

Bluespace wrote: To sum up, you'll make a good admin if you continue to honestly enjoy the game and not burn out, but tone down the large events. Try picking one or two players and trying to interact with them in an immersion-filled roleplay event.

I wanted to mention this but forgot. Picking one department or one player and making their round optionally special can be just as rewarding, especially for them, and less impactful on the round.

Even from before he became an admin he is one of the most genuine and nice people on the server promote pls

Reply to some of the posts here

Jerry is one of the nicest people I know. Somehow adminning has not done what it's meant to (turn him into a life-people-everything-hating, grumpy person) and he is still very nice person to work with and to the players.

Some of the criticism on this thread is valid and I know for a fact, as he is showing in this thread itself, that Jerry is taking it seriously and will improve his adminning above the high standard he has already set himself.

Keep up the good work Jerry, you're a great addition to the adminbus.

Perhaps a bit too soft, and a bit too emotionally invested. I disapproved of how they handled the sawrge thing, going out of your way to take situations as personal insults is the exact opposite of what an admin should do, they should instead seek to actively disentangle themselves from situations and avoid emotion in their decisions and discourse whenever possible, which I feel was actively disregarded in that situation. Most any time an admin gets an urge to go on a crusade to right some perceived wrong, it's usually carried out over zealously and strays into bad decision territory. My personal interactions with him as admin have been nice, but charged with emotional language that strays a bit far from impartiality for my taste.

A very nice guy, all in all, but I would advise at the very least he be given more hands on mentoring because just being nice isn't nearly enough to make a good admin.

Nobody, not even myself will like this post but demote. Admins can't let their emotions take the wheel to that absolute extreme and it's an issue that can't be fixed by extending. We have a lot of admins and so the bar expects these explosions to not happen or at least not dip into bans and adminning.

By banning people like sawrge they have proven their willingness to enforce rules against people the admins like. Demote before this kind of dangerous thinking can spread.

EagleWiz wrote:By banning people like sawrge they have proven their willingness to enforce rules against people the admins like. Demote before this kind of dangerous thinking can spread.

A monthban and they still hold a grudge. Sorry the Alphonso episode will not be airing this season

Armhulen wrote:A monthban

Unless you meant originally, it was reduced to two weeks.

Ayy Lemoh wrote:

Armhulen wrote:A monthban

Unless you meant originally, it was reduced to two weeks.

I did, and two weeks for this kind of thing is still totally extreme and still picked entirely by you

Ayy Lemoh wrote:

Kor wrote:pulse rifle skeleton war

but he makes it less enjoyable for me personally.

Glad I do not have to make this decision.

pulse rifle skeleton war? i dont remember ever giving skeletons pulse rifles. I don't even remember a skeleton war either, to be honest. If it was a round where everything was fucked then I feel like I would remember that otherwise that sounds like something worthy of deadminning. Only time I can remember handing out 'pulse rifles' was a bunch of chameleon guns that were reskinned and couldn't be changed. It got boring so I deleted them all. Either I have amnesia, someone else did it, or you just said that as an example and I'm thinking too deep into this.

I'm sorry about making it less fun for you, though.

The dumb skeleton spawners bugged and you tried to salvage things by giving the crew pulse rifles and healing staves. Not entirely your fault it got that bad, but even if it had worked out, just covering the station in skeletons means the players aren't really playing SS13 anymore.

I don't really want to nitpick about individual events though, just hope you realize the trend of station wide, narrated, and often mass violence events tend to drive away the people who like to roleplay and build, and you'll eventually be left with the people only interested in clicking things to death eventually.

Stickymayhem wrote:Please respect immersion. We struggle to keep people RPing already. Central Command Updates are not a global admin message to players, it's the station's in-universe boss. They should not be omnipresent, conversational and extremely frequent. Give the crew room to deceive them and room to make mistakes with a lack of information or miscommunication.

Excellent post. Bugs the hell out of me when the messages sound like they're coming from sarcastic godlike beings rather than a space company (Jerry is not the only one who does this, and we should have a line about this in the admin guidelines).

Armhulen wrote:

Ayy Lemoh wrote:

Armhulen wrote:A monthban

Unless you meant originally, it was reduced to two weeks.

I did, and two weeks for this kind of thing is still totally extreme and still picked entirely by you

Personally, i call that good initiative. Sawrge does a lot of dumb shit, did a lot of dumb shit, and often acts like a toxic dumbass. Slaps on the wrist serve nothing but to encourage this behavior. He is an ex-admin, he should know better. He practically laughs it off if it isn't serious enough. Jokes about bad shit he does as if it was nothing and he's badass for it. Jerryderpingtons harsher verdict is a welcome wake up call.

Tl;dr. Promote him.

EagleWiz wrote:By banning people like sawrge they have proven their willingness to enforce rules against people the admins like.

You have a heart of gold jerryboy dont let them take it from you

Kor wrote:, just covering the station in skeletons means the players aren't really playing SS13 anymore.
.

I don't even disagree, but it seems silly to complain that players fighting a station full of skeletons isn't SS13 while there is an entire job that fights dragons for magic wands and a game mode in which blood mages give ghosts fleshy bodies so they can murder people with swords so their souls can be harvested to aide in summoning a god.

EagleWiz wrote:

Kor wrote:, just covering the station in skeletons means the players aren't really playing SS13 anymore.
.

I don't even disagree, but it seems silly to complain that players fighting a station full of skeletons isn't SS13 while there is an entire job that fights dragons for magic wands and a game mode in which blood mages give ghosts fleshy bodies so they can murder people with swords so their souls can be harvested to aide in summoning a god.

this is why lavaland was a mistake and part of the reason why cult sucks

EagleWiz wrote:there is an entire job that fights dragons for magic wands and a game mode in which blood mages give ghosts fleshy bodies so they can murder people with swords so their souls can be harvested to aide in summoning a god.

It seems less like ss13 once you see xenomorphs on lavaland too, to be honest. Also they're constructs made of metal unless you mean those people who spam armies of ghosts.

To be honest, some of the things you can do or use (summon guns/magic, summoning a god, bubblegum's lavaland items, parrying) don't even seem like ss13 to me yet I never questioned it.

This is a trialmin review thread, though. Not a discussion on why ratvar chrono legionnaires appearing to kill hitler who is the leader of a blood cult doesn't seem like ss13.

EagleWiz wrote:

Kor wrote:, just covering the station in skeletons means the players aren't really playing SS13 anymore.
.

I don't even disagree, but it seems silly to complain that players fighting a station full of skeletons isn't SS13 while there is an entire job that fights dragons for magic wands and a game mode in which blood mages give ghosts fleshy bodies so they can murder people with swords so their souls can be harvested to aide in summoning a god.

I guess I was probably unclear since I listed it in the same post as events that bothered me from an immersion standpoint.

But I didn't object to the skeleton event on LORE grounds, I meant from a gameplay perspective that braindead AI horde mode with infinite ammo and respawns is not really what attracts me to the game. It can be fun every once and a while to blow off steam (I actually had fun when he did something similar with the migos or whatever) but when it's too frequent it means I have no time to talk to friends, experiment with stupid items, etc. When it's admin run, I also feel like my actions have zero weight or meaning on top of that (I will get more gear of I'm losing, there will be more skeletons if I'm winning, so what agency do I really have in the round anymore?)

Ayy Lemoh wrote:things

See above, magic from wizards or whatever doesn't hurt my immersion, magic from Centcomm does.

literally incapable of going a single round without pushing buttons and hijacking the round

good admin and cares about the server but yeah he hits buttons a bit too much

to be honest so do I but I am nothing if not a hypocrite

Since Jerry has become a trial-admin, he has demonstrated time and time again that he has a genuine passion for SS13. In my experiences with him,
he's always been an active player who's open to feedback, willing to see other perspectives, and an all-around honest and genuine guy.

My experience thus far as an admin candidate has only improved my respect for him, as he has guided me along the way, being a
great help to me at all turns. He's shared with me his mistakes, his successes, and what he wished he had known when he was in
my position. It really speaks to me, too, that Jerry is so open with me about his mistakes that he's experienced. To me, it shows
that he's learned from incidents where he did poorly in the past, and is willing to apply the wisdom he gained from those experiences
to bettering himself and making sure that others do not repeat his errors.

Jerry is a wonderful person to be around, and I wholeheartedly support his promotion.

My experiences with Jerry as a player have been great, he's always working hard on improving and making things fun for the players

promote he

Takes things much too personally, banned me for one month for a joke ahelp, even though I have a single negative note for the last two years I've been playing.
Might have a good heart but he's an awful admin, demote.

Not a fan of the way he handled the sawrge incident. Kor and sticky has said everything I wanted to say about events so not going to say anything there. He has a good heart and I like him though. I'm conflicted on this.

He seems like a decent individual . All interactions I have had with him are positive. However reading this thread tells me you need just a little bit of time to work on your admin skills, such as not pushing buttons when you are bored and being more thicked skined. Its actually a pretty hard job sometimes.

Actually I think it would be interesting to see a workshop for admins or something like that.

My vote is
Delay and then promote pending training with someone who is very patient so you can try to imitate them.

IF you only have two options, then promote them. But its not like tgstation doesn't have tons of time.

Excellent admin, active, fun and has a very smooth voice


Promote or die

Pascal125 wrote:

Armhulen wrote:

Ayy Lemoh wrote:

Armhulen wrote:A monthban

Unless you meant originally, it was reduced to two weeks.

I did, and two weeks for this kind of thing is still totally extreme and still picked entirely by you

Personally, i call that good initiative. Sawrge does a lot of dumb shit, did a lot of dumb shit, and often acts like a toxic dumbass. Slaps on the wrist serve nothing but to encourage this behavior. He is an ex-admin, he should know better. He practically laughs it off if it isn't serious enough. Jokes about bad shit he does as if it was nothing and he's badass for it. Jerryderpingtons harsher verdict is a welcome wake up call.

Tl;dr. Promote him.

TechnoAlchemist hasn't gotten a note in 2 years I don't think a monthban for a bad joke is fair

Ever since he became part of the admin conspiracy, I've seen him kill Rob Robinson less often, which is good. But I also enjoy seeing Rob Robinson die, which I get to enjoy less of. So I'm very conflicted here.

Re: adminning, he's been very informative and helpful with ahelps in my experience.

some of his events don't come out as planned, but he always means well and wants people to have fun. he's very professional and nice in ahelps. i say promote.

Armhulen wrote:

Pascal125 wrote:

Armhulen wrote:

Ayy Lemoh wrote:

Armhulen wrote:A monthban

Unless you meant originally, it was reduced to two weeks.

I did, and two weeks for this kind of thing is still totally extreme and still picked entirely by you

Personally, i call that good initiative. Sawrge does a lot of dumb shit, did a lot of dumb shit, and often acts like a toxic dumbass. Slaps on the wrist serve nothing but to encourage this behavior. He is an ex-admin, he should know better. He practically laughs it off if it isn't serious enough. Jokes about bad shit he does as if it was nothing and he's badass for it. Jerryderpingtons harsher verdict is a welcome wake up call.

Tl;dr. Promote him.

TechnoAlchemist hasn't gotten a note in 2 years I don't think a monthban for a bad joke is fair

That's why you're the worst headmin, they deserved permabans and jerry should get promoted

also the irony of kor "lavaland" fantasycoder posting about other people ruining their immersions with magic is tip top

oranges wrote:also the irony of kor "lavaland" fantasycoder posting about other people ruining their immersions with magic is tip top

I already answered this bait please dont recycle demonfiren posts

it's not bait if it's correct

So anyway Jerry's a pretty cool dude.

oranges wrote:

Armhulen wrote:

Pascal125 wrote:

Armhulen wrote:

Ayy Lemoh wrote:

Armhulen wrote:A monthban

Unless you meant originally, it was reduced to two weeks.

I did, and two weeks for this kind of thing is still totally extreme and still picked entirely by you

Personally, i call that good initiative. Sawrge does a lot of dumb shit, did a lot of dumb shit, and often acts like a toxic dumbass. Slaps on the wrist serve nothing but to encourage this behavior. He is an ex-admin, he should know better. He practically laughs it off if it isn't serious enough. Jokes about bad shit he does as if it was nothing and he's badass for it. Jerryderpingtons harsher verdict is a welcome wake up call.

Tl;dr. Promote him.

TechnoAlchemist hasn't gotten a note in 2 years I don't think a monthban for a bad joke is fair

That's why you're the worst headmin, they deserved permabans and jerry should get promoted

Well that's Harsh, Armhulenn isn't that bad. And a Permaban would feel way too severe. I can't think of many reasons Jerry shouldn't be promoted aside from the supposed "events every shift" people in here are talking about. I've not seen it but it's possible.

My original post was regarding the Sawrge aspect of the situation, not TechnoAlchemist. On the subject of TechnoAlchemist, yeah. It's a bit harsh. But he had his main account permabanned, and decided to use an alt account to help Sawrge waste some admins time masquerading ahelps as a serious issue (Stalkers and shit) for an "epic prank bro". Wasn't just a "Bad Joke". He's every bit as culpable. He shouldn't be given complete amnesty just because he (TechnoAlchemist) hasn't gotten a note in two years. (Correct me if i'm wrong on this but you seemed more inclined to let the whole situation slide and go un-noted and unpunished). That kind of thing is irrelevant, he still did it. Again, correct me if i'm wrong. But regular players don't get let off the hook completely because they've been on a good boy streak, so why should he? He (TechnoAlchemist) is showing himself to be mildly petty and completely unapolagetic over it in this review, right now. And, on the other hand, if only Sawrge got the two week ban over the situation then it'd seem unfair, and make it seem like he was singled out, even though they both did the exact same thing.

after reviewing this thread, we have decided to extend jerry's trialmin period for another month or two.
thanks for your feedback everyone.
-locked-

Pascal125 wrote:(snip)

My original post was regarding the Sawrge aspect of the situation, not TechnoAlchemist. On the subject of TechnoAlchemist, yeah. It's a bit harsh. But he had his main account permabanned, and decided to use an alt account to help Sawrge waste some admins time masquerading ahelps as a serious issue (Stalkers and shit) for an "epic prank bro". Wasn't just a "Bad Joke". He's every bit as culpable. He shouldn't be given complete amnesty just because he (TechnoAlchemist) hasn't gotten a note in two years. (Correct me if i'm wrong on this but you seemed more inclined to let the whole situation slide and go un-noted and unpunished). That kind of thing is irrelevant, he still did it. Again, correct me if i'm wrong. But regular players don't get let off the hook completely because they've been on a good boy streak, so why should he? He (TechnoAlchemist) is showing himself to be mildly petty and completely unapolagetic over it in this review, right now. And, on the other hand, if only Sawrge got the two week ban over the situation then it'd seem unfair, and make it seem like he was singled out, even though they both did the exact same thing.

Technoalchemist was technically permabanned but it was very obvious that it was a joke/requested ban:

2016-07-24 04:53:07
korphaeron
Sybil
(MANUAL BAN) go free

Pascal125 wrote:Again, correct me if i'm wrong. But regular players don't get let off the hook completely because they've been on a good boy streak

Admins give far more notes/warnings than they do bans, and history/time between warnings is one of the biggest factors in determining that.

On topic: I played several rounds with Jerry on yesterday and the only hint of an event I saw was a robot named "race drone" passing me in the hallway with an assistant in tow. Wasn't obtrusive at all. He might be taking the feedback to heart.

Kor wrote:a robot named "race drone" passing me in the hallway with an assistant in tow. Wasn't obtrusive at all. He might be taking the feedback to heart.

That's not even an event. I was surprised as you when I first saw it but it is part of the game. I thought we finally added some of the borgs in the icon files.

EDIT: I finally remembered the name of what it came from: Integrated Circuits

Oh right the new circuit sprites, whoops.

desperate to paint him in bad light that they forget features in their own codebase

totally deranged

We have taken a close consideration of the facts that have occurred over the past few months and we still have a few reservations about the way that the aforementioned incident between Jerry and Sawrge played out. However, I feel like it would be cruel to completely demote someone for a situation as complicated as that one. After a long discussion, we have decided to extend Jerry's trial.

We would like to take an extra two more months to oversee Jerry's behavior and to make sure that he has taken some of the insight provided in this review to heart. We are already seeing improvement in behavior and his events so we are hopeful for the future. In my opinion, having too many events are indeed a bad thing: but making good events is indeed a path that is paved with some bad events. I would like to encourage Jerry to make events that are not as immersion breaking while still encouraging him to do them ever so often (with a plan for them in mind to make sure that they are good.) We are hopeful that the event workshop will be useful to him in the future on this regard. I believe he understands that this would be much less often than what he has previously done.

We expect great things from Jerry and we would hate to see him off the team.