Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

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captain sawrge
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by captain sawrge » #406535

Bottom post of the previous page:

I don't really think it's a huge stretch to suggest his behavior in a position of power be considered when addressing the issue of his potential behavior in a position of power.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406536

captain sawrge wrote:I don't actually see much more coming out of this back-and-forth so I guess I'll just get to my point and make it short and sweet:

It seems unhealthy for the game's community to promote someone when they are taking active steps to try and divide the community and make certain, and for all intents innocent, parts of it feel unwelcome.
It feels like the only person who is trying to actively divide the community is people like you.

You interrupted 60 peoples rounds over a config disagreement, all I have ever done is made fun of people and opened some pr's that the headcoder never seriously considered merging.

Which one of us is being more divisive? Who's making people feel more unwelcome?
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406537

Xhuis wrote:
If it did, then surely you would hvae some concrete examples of where I have conducted myself in a biased manner with someone based on their character instead of the content of their ahelp?
I can't provide this, as admin logs are not public to me.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, I will be blunt and somewhat abrasive as an admin, if you chat shit to me you can expect to get return served. I have never denied that, I just said it wouldn't affect my ability to administrate fairly, which is exactly what we should demand.

You say, this, but in earlier posts in this thread you stated:
"I'm not going to let the fact there are parts of the meal I don't like personally get in the way of improving the parts of the meal I do like."
and
"It's okay to have fun in the job, as long as you keep it limited and that's exactly what I do."
I think that these statements reflect that it will affect your ability to administrate fairly. I feel that this thought isn't unjustified, given your colorful history and feelings on a lot of players here, as well as the way you have treated them, and it tells me that you view repeated slights against them as "just having fun."
So being blunt and honest with people, having fun and not liking all aspects of the game makes me a bad admin? I guess you'll have to deadmin the entire admin team then.

Xhuis wrote: Furthermore:
"I don't see why I would need to be excellent at compromising, that's a headmin role, maybe something senior admins do."
Compromise and agreement is a very important factor to being an admin. If you could name one admin in recent history who has begun their gameadmin status as being difficult to talk to and compromise with that has made it more than half a year, I will gladly retract that.
I am here to enforce other peoples bans and apply their criteria, not my own, why would I need to compromise? Compromise is for policy discussion and internal admin debate, not in how I apply the generally accepted principles of admin rulings and the policy directives from our head admins.
Xhuis wrote: All these things are slightly worrying for me to see. You're contradicting yourself on your statements, and in my eyes, haven't shown any remorse for causing a great deal of strife to a great deal of people, nor do you appear to have any qualms about doing so in the future.
I haven't shown any remorse because I don't have any and nothing I have said is contradictory. I'm not running around murdering people who play catgirl and lizard, I'm just expressing my honest and open dislike of it.
Last edited by oranges on Thu May 03, 2018 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406539

you know what is suprising to me?

Several people have indicated to me that they believe this thread is awful or somehow a dumpster fire? Is this really how far our ability to have a discourse has degraded? As far as I can tell this thread is simply a robust debate. I'd be more disappointed that every admin review thread doesn't look like this one. (Save swarge's ironic shitposting about poems)
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Xhuis » #406542

I'd like to think this is a healthy discussion. It's definitely not a dumpster fire. My sleep schedule has been suffering, and it's getting late, so I'll come back in the morning and write out my thoughts after I've slept on them. Right now, my tl;dr is that I still feel as though my previous points stand, and that your lack of remorse for causing consistent trouble and attempting to alienate members of the community based on a generalized dislike is troubling from someone running for an administrative position.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by iamgoofball » #406550

oranges has been a solid maintainer for the codebase for years, provides free file hosting to multiple community members, hosted our free discourse singulo.io for free, and continues to support the community with monetary donations and knowledge contribution.

He's a stand up guy, promote him ASAP.
Xhuis wrote: Oranges has historically not cared who he hurts when he plays his little jokes, and you not seeing this kind of shocks me.
1. its oranges
2. Our community's standard for "jokes" involves excessively racist "jokes", hostile and abrasive attitudes, and general douchebaggery. oranges pulling one over on a few people with the PRs is some top notch shit compared to the current standard, speaking as someone who has had his PRs used for this.
captain sawrge wrote:I don't really think it's a huge stretch to suggest his behavior in a position of power be considered when addressing the issue of his potential behavior in a position of power.
the guy has, for the last 3 years, had complete commit access and control over the /tg/station code repository, and not once has he actually taken an action that was not for the betterment of the game

I disagree with him heavily on removing stocks, for example, but he's absolutely right it was an unmaintainable mess and complete shitcode.

if he wanted to shit stuff up because he felt like it, he could of done that so, so many times, and you know this. I think you're arguing in bad faith because you are afraid of the consequences to yourself.

I've noticed Sawrge has posted a lot in this thread about how oranges is a terrible person outside of the administration, using whataboutism so excellently that even a Russian shill trying to claim the gas attack in the UK was staged would be proud. I could find/replace "oranges" with "shillary the warhawk" in all of sawrge's posts and air the script on Tucker Carlson as a republican attack ad with only minor adjustments.

Whataboutism isn't legitimate criticism, it's a shitty logical fallacy for when you can't actually debate someone's position and need to resort to underhanded garbage. Knock that shit off before you continue to expose yourself as a Rich Evans style hack fraud.

Also, I just want to point out this gem:
captain sawrge wrote:Don't see my name in the topic title btw.
If you can't take it, don't dish it out, especially when you're going to go max hypocrite. Sad!
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Xhuis » #406553

goof wrote:1. its oranges
2. Our community's standard for "jokes" involves excessively racist "jokes", hostile and abrasive attitudes, and general douchebaggery. oranges pulling one over on a few people with the PRs is some top notch shit compared to the current standard, speaking as someone who has had his PRs used for this.
1. you say this, but you don't consider it a slight red flag that someone so well-known for causing trouble that they're known to nearly everyone by name is becoming an administrator?
2. I'm not saying they're any better, and oranges has clearly show that they will use their power to induce more of it.
I'm an ex-coder for /tg/. I made the original versions of clockcult, shadowlings, revenants, His Grace, and other stuff.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
Kraso wrote:hi gay
wubli wrote:xhuis you said you were feeling better but every thread you make makes me worry more about your sanity
ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone wrote:Sorry I was making fun of xhuis' """""compromise""""" who insisted that was the correct term to use.
CitrusGender wrote:We've ended up disabling clockcult on sybil and bagil now (terry is having some problems.) We will give Xhuis some time until he wishes to work upon it again. As of now, please use this thread for ideas and not for bickering.
wubli wrote:you are a cultist of the gay
IkeTG wrote:It's a reflection of humanity, like all of man's creation. You cannot divorce this act from yourself, in a way there's a big titty moth inside all of us.
wesoda25 wrote:yeah no one was curious what it was from. Imagine choosing being a degenerate as your forum gimmick, LOL
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by iamgoofball » #406562

oranges's jokes are harmless pranks, compared to community members who do stuff like pretend that a player is stalking them, contact admins about it, and send new trialmins on wild goose chases over it because they took advantage of a newer trialmin that was trying to look out for an at-risk player.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by IkeTG » #406564

I don't think it's wishful thinking to claim he'll make a good admin. In my opinion, the server stands to gain more from his professional conduct than it could lose from any unprofessional conduct, so my vote is to promote!
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Okand37 » #406579

While I think his jokes can be over the top sometimes and while I won't always agree with his taste, I believe that the drive and knowledge he brings to the server, community, and admin team are all desirable traits. He has extensive knowledge of the codebase and the game itself and, when I last played, was very professional in his conduct as an administrator on the server. oranges is the kind of person who will be honest and blunt with their opinion, but will also be open to discussion. You can definitely have a productive and enjoyable conversation or debate with them, and they can be a very kind and respectful individual.

I believe he has already proven prior that he was a great addition to the admin team before he briefly resigned, and I would think that he still retains the same admirable characteristics as before. While I would like to restate that yes, I would agree some of his jokes as tasteless, they don't reflect on his conduct as an administrator or his ability to administrate fairly, politely, and effectively. As long as he can continue to maintain his previously seen restraint, I believe he would make a great game administrator!

+1 from me.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by leibniz » #406581

promote
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Arianya » #406582

I can't really speak to oranges as an admin, as our timezones are 12 hours apart so the closest we come to being on the same server is discord discussion.

That said, I'll go with my gut response and say: Too busy and liable to overstretching. Their connections are definitely on the low end and their (valued) work as a maintainer isn't liable to go away any time soon. Oranges does acknowledge the issue, which is good, but I'm not sure that in a month or two, if promoted, we won't see oranges removed for inactivity.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by pubby » #406586

He's a suck-up to anyone above him and he's toxic to anyone below him.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Bluespace » #406587

giant faggot but also a good friend
this thread is moot because one day he will ascend to host
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by imblyings » #406600

He's reasonable where things matter and has an attitude towards things that helps keep /tg/ healthy. His banter is harmless and it is the height of dumb to deny someone who's spent years contributing time, money, patience and genuine care towards this place and its people just because some people can't handle or ignore oranges' banter.

promote Oranges
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Stickymayhem » #406607

CitrusGender wrote:I suppose I should post my gut response. oranges is a great guy who treats everyone the same. He'll call out what he perceives to be your bullshit if he has a problem with it and he doesn't treat people differently (which is REALLY rare and something I can respect.) That's all fine and well but he feels like he doesn't have that much respect for conflicting viewpoints and he often (although jokingly) states he'll do stuff anyways even if you tell him not to. It hasn't resulted in a horrible incident yet, but I wonder if something worse will happen in the future. His in-game conduct is pretty professional though. I'm a bit conflict at the momment.
I would have to disagree. I've always been a fan of oranges' antics, even if he thinks I'm a pain in the ass, but he absolutely does not treat everyone equally and that's why I'd probably not agree he should be promoted.

He seems to have several long-held grudges against many members of the community, and if you make his "Play to win" shitlist like I have, he won't ever consider changing his mind. I can handle his shit, but I'm an admin and I encourage people to shit on me because I can take it. I don't think it's fair to promote someone to admin who has very openly attacked other people over inconsequential shit well beyond what is reasonable even in this community.

I also think that while he is professional in ahelps and can do the actual job of administrating, that is not his main focus and will never be. This is not a criticism, but it seems to me his desire to administrate is a desire to remain in the close-knit community, remain in adminbus and stay close to the leadership. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but as soon as he gets bored, or the meme is funny enough to throw their position away on, which has happened plenty, it's going to be a liability.

I like him, but I don't think he would make a suitable admin given his interactions with many members of the community that are, in his mind, irredeemable shitters.

EDIT: Maybe it's my reduced activity due to final year uni shit, but I haven't seen as much of this in the last few weeks, to be fair.

Frankly if it were up to me I'd vote extend to see if he can maintain a reasonable level of activity and behaviour for the longer period.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406610

Name those people you believe I have grudges with please, and those I have supposedly "attacked" far beyond what is reasonable
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Stickymayhem » #406612

oranges wrote:Name those people you believe I have grudges with please, and those I have supposedly "attacked" far beyond what is reasonable
telling oldman you'd be happy if he died is one recent one that comes to mind

My point is that wanting admin and then disregarding the responsibility to be impartial and reasonable, even if not friendly, with other people doesn't really look like a good thing to me
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406613

I have never not been impartial or reasonable with robustin, I just haven't been nice to him, or other people I don't like when they're shitting all over things we've built because we didn't give them a free pass

and I would like to note I still maintain and merge robustin pr's, so I'm not letting my dislike for his attitude get in the way of merging changes of his that are good
Last edited by oranges on Thu May 03, 2018 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406619

Stickymayhem wrote:This is not a criticism, but it seems to me his desire to administrate is a desire to remain in the close-knit community, remain in adminbus and stay close to the leadership. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but as soon as he gets bored, or the meme is funny enough to throw their position away on, which has happened plenty, it's going to be a liability.
This is the saddest thing I've ever seen you post, I've spent the last three years working my butt off for this community and you think I'm doing it to be in a clique? Can name at least three cliques way cooler than the admin one that I"m already in (shout out to the wildhog arma 3 clan, post An0n3 mind you, An0n3 come back play some arma with us we forgive you already)

I was already in adminbus from my position as a coder and a keyholder, and you think I'm taking on these extra responsiblities for fucking fun and so I can better kiss the headadmins ass? The SAME fucking headadmins I literally ELECTED?

Get off your high horse before you fall and break your weakass vegan neck bones.
Last edited by oranges on Thu May 03, 2018 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406620

This activity argument is bull shit as well.

The only reason to not keep inactive admins is if they don't show up in discord or irc to keep current across administrative things and in tune with the rest of the admins.
I can't be in the game as often as I'd like (and I'm quite often a solo admin when I am) but I am near omnipresent on discord and forums and there isn't a single policy thread or complaint I don't read.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Lazengann » #406628

I think oranges's blunt and honest approach is very important for the community. He's very knowledgeable and rarely on the wrong side of issues, and the care he has for the game and server is palpable. I support his promotion.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Limski » #406643

Take a ride in the relaxi taxi friends
Oranges is a good admin and deserves to be promoted
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Gouty » #406650

For once I almost entirely agree with a thread on here, the good and the bad. Competent, but the amount of discussion and the nature of some of the issues people have had with him should cause concern.

I don't mind blunt and honest, but on my one interaction with them as a trialmin they were aloof, curt and dismissive.

Also to the people saying that we shouldn't take anything from outside of their trialmin period/actions into account, past behaviour is absolutely an indicator of future. One particular incident that sticks out in my mind that hasn't been mentioned already in this thread is spoiling Star Wars for people on the servers through a pull request.
Last edited by Gouty on Thu May 03, 2018 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406653

I investigated your issue, resolved it and rejected your follow up ahelps, you then made a complaint, had your complaint denied and apparently continue to hold a grudge about it.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Sometinyprick » #406655

He covers weird hours that beforehand we only really had ausops to cover. I don't see why we shouldn't promote him, I mean he can be an ass-hole but there is nothing wrong with that really, and most of his banter is aimed at other admins who should have thick enough skin to deal with it.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Gouty » #406657

oranges wrote:I investigated your issue, resolved it and rejected your follow up ahelps, you then made a complaint, had your complaint denied and apparently continue to hold a grudge about it.
I wasn't talking about the complaint. In the complaint I said you did not intervene when someone was breaking the rules, like you said it was denied.

This was the same incident but HOW you handled it, something I did not mention in the complaint but is relevant now, and is also the major concern that people seem to have with you. If you want to dismiss it and believe that's down to some bias grudge and not legitimate feedback (the purpose of this thread) then that's down to you.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Stickymayhem » #406661

oranges wrote:
Stickymayhem wrote:This is not a criticism, but it seems to me his desire to administrate is a desire to remain in the close-knit community, remain in adminbus and stay close to the leadership. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but as soon as he gets bored, or the meme is funny enough to throw their position away on, which has happened plenty, it's going to be a liability.
This is the saddest thing I've ever seen you post, I've spent the last three years working my butt off for this community and you think I'm doing it to be in a clique? Can name at least three cliques way cooler than the admin one that I"m already in (shout out to the wildhog arma 3 clan, post An0n3 mind you, An0n3 come back play some arma with us we forgive you already)

I was already in adminbus from my position as a coder and a keyholder, and you think I'm taking on these extra responsiblities for fucking fun and so I can better kiss the headadmins ass? The SAME fucking headadmins I literally ELECTED?

Get off your high horse before you fall and break your weakass vegan neck bones.
Yeah you're right my bad. I'm very sleep deprived.

There was talk of you being booted out of adminbus after some minor scandal, and then you became a trial and that talk became irrelevant because you were becoming an official admin. That happened but it's not fair to suggest that had any bearing on why you want to admin.

I retract my objections under the harsh light of your anti-vegan character assassination
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Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
Super Aggro Crag wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm Dont engage with sticky he's a subhuman
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Karp » #406664

oranges wrote:
captain sawrge wrote:I don't actually see much more coming out of this back-and-forth so I guess I'll just get to my point and make it short and sweet:

It seems unhealthy for the game's community to promote someone when they are taking active steps to try and divide the community and make certain, and for all intents innocent, parts of it feel unwelcome.
It feels like the only person who is trying to actively divide the community is people like you.

You interrupted 60 peoples rounds over a config disagreement, all I have ever done is made fun of people and opened some pr's that the headcoder never seriously considered merging.

Which one of us is being more divisive? Who's making people feel more unwelcome?
Disingenuous point as multiple people have both publically and privately thanked him for speaking up for the players. The config had been fucked with constantly despite a majority of the players wanting it enabled as if it was some joke making raising that point terrible, unless you're arguing that the man who made a loud voice and stand for what a majority of the server wanted is being the divisive one? Despite having next to zero care myself in the affair of cats originally, sawrge does raise a point with you having a history with you being incredibly hostile to certain groups you dislike and it stands on it's own feet even ignoring his history.

Which is quite ironic, because I do feel like promote would be the right choice here. My big concern is that you may just troll or act awful to people/things you dislike which is the only real reservation I have, though in ahelps he's nothing but nice and courteous from what I've seen. Can easily attain greatness, but he may just be apathetic towards it. Wouldn't blame him if he is.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Xhuis » #406666

While I hold my reservations, it would appear the majority of admins don't. My own opinion on oranges' promotion has not changed - I think it's a poor idea, and that it would cause a lot of strife and end disastrously - but if so many admins hold faith in him, either the vast majority of admins are foolish and shortsighted, or I'm being too paranoid, and I'm not so arrogant as to believe myself more correct than an entire team. Those calling you a "good admin" are the ones who aren't hurt by your antics, and don't see them as anything more than harmless pranks, offering little arguments in your favor and instead opting for "promote", giving few or no reasons why. But, they're admins. so of course their word is weightier than mine, and their opinion matters more than just one concerned person like me.

I see no more point in arguing nor debating my thoughts, as it's clear they won't be taken into account at this point anyway.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Qbmax32 » #406687

I like oranges. He’s blunt, honest and will always tell you what he thinks without any asskissing. In the in-game interactions I’ve had with him, he answers every ticket calmly, professionally and resolves them respectfully. Yeah, he makes fun of a lot of people about all sorts of minor and stupid shit. But people not being able to take someone’s mean words on the internet and complaining about it contrasts oranges’ tirelessly maintaining our codebase, administration tools and impartially adminning the servers.



Obviously it’s clear his downsides have caused a lot of people to post their dislike of him, so it might by wise on his part to tone down that sort of thing. Regardless though, I think oranges is an excellent admin well deserving of a promotion.
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Re: Trialmin Review: oranges

Post by BeeSting12 » #406689

Xhuis wrote: Do you feel that you would make a good choice for a more permanent, full admin, in spite of that being who you are as a person? People who haven't gotten along well with others or trust their snap judgements too quickly generally are deadminned or resigned; in recent history, see beesting, daturix, that one guy who spawned the ash drakes and played as Jan-Michael Vincent whose name I can't remember. I don't mean to be attacking you here, I'm just trying to consider your own thoughts on it and curious how you feel you would fare.
Just because i dont get along with you doesnt mean i dont get along with everyone. beside the point but just sayin'


anyways oranges can be a bit of a troll. i remember giving him a permaban a while back for spoiling star wars. i thought giving him trial was ridiculous but the headmins stuck with their decision so whatever. based on his administrative conduct he should be promoted.

realistically he shouldnt have gotten trial in the first place given the way hes acted in the past but he seems to have cleaned it up so we're at the point in the cycle where he acts right for a while. he's shown good enough judgement to know when to quit so hopefully he'll keep that judgement. i'd say promote him, if he turns out to be garbage we can just demote him.

basically hes like the older brother that acts like a dick and messes with you every once in a while but he comes through and helps you out when its important
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by ColonicAcid » #406711

oranges wrote:
captain sawrge wrote:I don't actually see much more coming out of this back-and-forth so I guess I'll just get to my point and make it short and sweet:

It seems unhealthy for the game's community to promote someone when they are taking active steps to try and divide the community and make certain, and for all intents innocent, parts of it feel unwelcome.
It feels like the only person who is trying to actively divide the community is people like you.

You interrupted 60 peoples rounds over a config disagreement, all I have ever done is made fun of people and opened some pr's that the headcoder never seriously considered merging.

Which one of us is being more divisive? Who's making people feel more unwelcome?
whataboutism.

you did not actually answer the question about whether or not youre divisive, you've just pointed at sawrge and went "but what about you???".

sawrge is not the topic of this thread, you are. whether sawrge is more divisive is irrelevant.

edit:
actually there must always be an aran in the server and since aran threw himself off the fucking andes because argentina lost in the world cup oranges now occupies that role.

i mean there's coincidences and then there's a coder that generally admins by the book until one instance where they do something fucking stupid, get removed from the admintxt and then a couple of months later becomes an admin again only for this very thing to happen again and the community acts very, very angry going "how do we let shit like this happen???"
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Krusvik » #406743

There are no issues between Oranges and I, and while he often finds himself involved in affairs, never do I suspect he's a bad person. Because of what my heart tells me, he has my support.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by DemonFiren » #406754

apparently I am his waifu

I'm okay with that
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non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Rustledjimm » #406769

Alright. I was hoping to just grab my popcorn and watch this thread but some people are clearly taking this way too far. Take a chill pill and stop it with the personal insults against each other and give *feedback* for *oranges*. If oranges wants to defend himself I am sure he is perfectly capable to do that himself.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by NikNakFlak » #406798

He's good, let me make a list of a bunch of things
  1. active maintainer for a really long time and done great work. Sure he did the star wars spoiler but countless code reviews, bug fixes and all that good stuff outweighs a movie meme tbh
  2. ran singulo/file.house for people, just shows investment into the community to make it more engaging
  3. how is disliking cats or lizards wrong if you don't do anything. I know like tons of people with this opinion in this community, what the fuck? There's always been this big debate of "FETISH CONTENT" vs "GET UR FETISH SHIT OUT OF MY GAME" and oranges isn't the first participant nor is he the most malicious about it (c; sup sawrge)
  4. Xhuis has mentioned a few times in this thread about oranges' bias/whatever going to get in the way of adminning and when oranges asked about it, xhuis simply stated he did not have admin logs, which... what the fuck? Game logs provide more than enough evidence of admins doing actions in game, this is a bad argument and you should feel bad. If he has never done anything wrong, and you can't find instances of him doing wrong doing, you can't chop it up to not having access to admin logs, logs are available, there's just no crime here.
  5. good time zone, we are constantly needing admins in these odd time zones. I myself sometimes see ausops when I'm on west coast 1-3am block and there's zero admins awake or anywhere usually. He's a solid man for the job and timezone is great, this is simply a pro to add to the list, although some people might not think much of it
  6. Good admin, I've seen him answer adminhelps in game and its as straight forward customer representative as you can be. He's been blowing people the fuck outta this thread left and right with his great admin conduct, the only thing people can seem to reference is anything except his admin conduct. I know community interaction matters but I'd rather have a good admin and a blunt dude in the community (not to mention all the great code related things he's done) over a really bad admin but he's nice when he's not making bad bans or badminning events or something I guess?
  7. oranges is my friend so im biased but also, I've had drama with him in the past where a pr of mine got closed or something and we exchanged harsh words but then later got over it because who cares? Then he went back to being the meme coding machine he is, and back them banters and good memes
  8. everything kor said
feels like people have a bone to pick or something
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by jcll » #406799

Kor wrote:Powerful force for good. Incredibly hard working and never afraid to speak truth to power (or anyone else who needs to hear it).

Can't overstate how important he has been to the codebase and /tg/ as a whole.

I know he trolls sometimes but he's got a strong moral compass and will have peoples backs when it matters.

More specifically to adminning, he quit last time he felt he was going to abuse it because he was getting sick of it, which is probably the most important judgement we need admins to be able to make.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Nabski » #406802

Since people are talking about logs, I start trolling looking until I found him in game.

First round: No comments from him, no notable tickets that round.

Second one I found: Oh boy what a meme. Changed the title screen to the slippery slope image, Global narrated an image a few times, got kicked by both citrus and kevin, got an admin tempban for posting goose vomit. (86394)

Found seven rounds in a row of "Crime Clown here! Need anyone handeled? Hire a hitclown! Contact me for further info.", as I'm searching for tact. (4/22) This isn't related to him but you can' only gimmick so hard dude.

Third one: Played a song, played a song, canceled a random event, song, made a radiator say "I'm radiating daddy", made it say three more things, a ticket about an obscure feature, an IC issue (agreed), gave a cookie, gave forcewall&mimewall (assuming thunderdome), followed up on the IC issue as security continued being shitty, deals with some shitty AI laws, bwoinks someone about a death, gives out a meme objective, goes decently into depth on the bad escalation with the player in a good way. (86629)

When he's serious he seems to be good, but it seems like there aren't many connections (or at least it's hard to randomly find rounds with him on Bagil but I'm sure I would be the same) and even now he's being shitty about some things between the radiator comments and goose vomit.

I say extend trialmin.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by NikNakFlak » #406805

Goose vomit. Questionable
Radiator, are you for real? Who cares
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Nabski » #406806

It was my attempt at a random audit to actually talk about admin behavior rather than other things. He's great for the server in what he was already up to, but this is supposed to be a thread about just being an admin. I just clicked rounds in the logs until I found him, then wrote down everything I found in it. These were somewhere around the 8:00 hour range on the server, which I honestly have no idea what that relates to for real time of me or him.

I commented on the radiator things because they were clearly intended to be somewhat "steamy", which I guess was the joke.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by ohnopigeons » #406807

Logs and server time are in UTC, 8:00 translates to 4AM EDT which falls comfortably in the range of dead odd timezones.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Xhuis » #406810

NikNakFlak wrote: how is disliking cats or lizards wrong if you don't do anything. I know like tons of people with this opinion in this community, what the fuck? There's always been this big debate of "FETISH CONTENT" vs "GET UR FETISH SHIT OUT OF MY GAME" and oranges isn't the first participant nor is he the most malicious about it (c; sup sawrge)
Perhaps you missed the part where he directly caused people who use cat parts deliberate trouble for the sake of a laugh, ie the January incident I already cited extensively and multiple PRs against them that I think are jokes only half the time.
NikNakFlak wrote: Xhuis has mentioned a few times in this thread about oranges' bias/whatever going to get in the way of adminning and when oranges asked about it, xhuis simply stated he did not have admin logs, which... what the fuck? Game logs provide more than enough evidence of admins doing actions in game, this is a bad argument and you should feel bad. If he has never done anything wrong, and you can't find instances of him doing wrong doing, you can't chop it up to not having access to admin logs, logs are available, there's just no crime here.
As someone who has been around for a very long time, I feel that you should know more than anyone that oranges' behavior in general is a concern. I'm not going to logdive to get logs that will be passed off anyways, and I'm not concerned with a trial period that nobody to date has failed outright during review. I'm concerned that his demeanor and behavior will influence how he admins once he has free reign, and all of his actions in past four months encourage me to continue doing so as I have for the past several years. I do see that he cares about the server, and I'm never going to deny how much he's done for the community and code, but his behavior doesn't strike me as something we look for in admins.

I had a brief candidation period cancelled by Armhulen for a single mishap. I've coded for going on perhaps four years now. Why should he get a pass where I don't? Do see you see why I'm concerned here? Oranges has done worse things than me, more often, and more consistently, and yet is given free pass after free pass no matter how many people he hurts.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406811

Nabski wrote:Since people are talking about logs, I start trolling looking until I found him in game.

gave forcewall&mimewall (assuming thunderdome)
That was a mime praying who I granted that too
[/quote]
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406812

ohnopigeons wrote:Logs and server time are in UTC, 8:00 translates to 4AM EDT which falls comfortably in the range of dead odd timezones.
This is basically 8pm here and I'm usually on from 7/8 -> 12pm nzst which is like 3AM/4AM -> 8AM
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by Nabski » #406814

Oranges, do you want me to try to find another random round, and if so what time/server are you typically on. I feel like the goose vomit one was not a very representative example, as funny as it was.

The mime specific traitor tools could be so fun, but every time I used them there were calls of MIME IS VALID.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406816

You can if you want, but goose vomit is pretty representative of a round

Also it's easier to find rounds if you download the month bundles from the parsed logs and use a recursive grep for the ckey, then you can target the admin raw logs to get more detail
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406826

ColonicAcid wrote: you did not actually answer the question about whether or not youre divisive,
I'm not

edit:Kor laughed at me for posting this so let me expand
I make my opinion clear and I argue strongly my point
That isn't divisive, that's how change happens

Without change we're stagnant, and if we're stagnant this community is dead
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by ColonicAcid » #406834

oranges wrote:
ColonicAcid wrote: you did not actually answer the question about whether or not youre divisive,
I'm not

edit:Kor laughed at me for posting this so let me expand
I make my opinion clear and I argue strongly my point
That isn't divisive, that's how change happens

Without change we're stagnant, and if we're stagnant this community is dead
perhaps you know who else fits in the description of "i make my opinion clear and i argue strongly my point"???? cdb.

you could make great points but it doesn't matter when you're a corrosive vitriol filled shit.
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by oranges » #406836

luckily I'm not, so I've got that going for me
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Re: Trialmin Review: Optimumtact

Post by ColonicAcid » #406837

hmm
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