/tg/Station 13

Optimumtact has now been on the .txt as a Trial Admin for 2 months.

Please use this thread as public review; it's encouraged for players to comment on how well/badly the trial admin has done and whether or not they think the trial admin should be made a full admin, if they should be removed from the .txt or if their promotion should be delayed.

promote

The hero we deserve and about the only one who will call people out for bullshit.

I have literally never seen this man online.

I guess that makes them good because they are covering a set of hours we don't have others in.

still not and never will be a fan of how he knowingly is rude and obnoxious a lot, it reflects poorly on everyone and accomplishes very little - then he justifies it with "well if i'm being a douche it's because you're being stupid" but that ignores everything wrong with being rude to people

my post doesn't matter though because he has acted this way for a long time and gets away with it through a combo of technical usefulness and nobody wanting to do anything about it so i'm sure he'll get fullmin and continue to go through the cycle of doing things that are helpful/whatever and then ramping up how much shit he does until it gets near breaking point, then he'll apologize (or not) and repeat

really don't understand why you continue to act like this in general because you've shown everyone many times that you're capable of not being an ass and people appreciate it when you aren't

will likely ignore what i'm saying and dismiss me as mad/butthurt

I hope you find a way to disagree with people without being needlessly hostile and you ease up on the times when you're an asshole for zero reason

edit: also of note is how people will agree that oranges takes things way too far and is a problem, then will turn around and say he should be promoted without addressing any of these issues

edit 2: would like to also point out that i'm not trying to incite a fight and will likely not post any more in this thread, i've said my piece and it likely won't do anything anyhow so stirring the pot isn't necessary

I wish I had anything nice to say here.

he's like the incredibly tough parent who loves you but will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever admit it and will instead tell you he hates you as long as it motivates you to do better

promote

[youtube]_V2sBURgUBI[/youtube]

Good boy

going to mirror qbopper here. oranges has historically caused problems for the sake of a laugh and continually belittles and mocks people he doesn't like. while I can't speak for his admin conduct, I think trusting them with admin, as someone who has clearly shown they are willing to throw around and abuse the power they have, is a poor decision, and if the headmins are set on doing so, I'm curious to hear their reasons and justifications why it would be a good idea instead of a poor one, especially considering the outcry that went up at him being allowed to skip the candidacy period.

Qbopper wrote:still not and never will be a fan of how he knowingly is rude and obnoxious a lot, it reflects poorly on everyone and accomplishes very little - then he justifies it with "well if i'm being a douche it's because you're being stupid" but that ignores everything wrong with being rude to people.

They're wrong by your belief system, as far as I am concerned it's inconsequential, generally I find that being rude or blunt is more effective at communicating what I mean to people, the rest is just the way I am as a person.

Nabski wrote:I have literally never seen this man online.

I guess that makes them good because they are covering a set of hours we don't have others in.

I'm not as active as I'd like to be, but I do imagine I cover a weird set of hours

oranges wrote:

Qbopper wrote:still not and never will be a fan of how he knowingly is rude and obnoxious a lot, it reflects poorly on everyone and accomplishes very little - then he justifies it with "well if i'm being a douche it's because you're being stupid" but that ignores everything wrong with being rude to people.

They're wrong by your belief system, as far as I am concerned it's inconsequential, generally I find that being rude or blunt is more effective at communicating what I mean to people, the rest is just the way I am as a person.

Do you feel that you would make a good choice for a more permanent, full admin, in spite of that being who you are as a person? People who haven't gotten along well with others or trust their snap judgements too quickly generally are deadminned or resigned; in recent history, see beesting, daturix, that one guy who spawned the ash drakes and played as Jan-Michael Vincent whose name I can't remember. I don't mean to be attacking you here, I'm just trying to consider your own thoughts on it and curious how you feel you would fare.

Yes I think I would do fine, my administrative record speaks for itself I believe

I do get along well with people, I bear nobody here any real ill will, but if i think you are acting stupid or being dumb over something, I will tell you to your face, and in front of people and I will make fun of you.

I won't pull punches just because I like you either.

PKPenguin321 wrote:he's like the incredibly tough parent who loves you but will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever admit it and will instead tell you he hates you as long as it motivates you to do better

promote

I feel like this, out of all the caring amazing people oranges is up there for the people who care about me doing well the most. He's a hateful old hag but behind that peel is oranges when he equips the dog with sunglasses on the beach avatar

Oranges is very bipolar in my honest opinion and one day I may enjoy his presence and the next I will feel as though I have just been stabbed in the abdomen, however when he's being serious he is actually a respectable person and if he can tone down the more undesirable aspects of his persona I believe he would make a great admin.

oranges is a good admin

I disagree with your sentiment about getting along with people. Historically, anyone who has been here for some time can confirm that you have caused a lot of fighting and drama, directly or indirectly. I'm a little confused as to your view, especially given your seeming disdain for a pretty large section of our playerbase (anyone who supports mutantparts), but nevertheless. that's not my judgement to make.

Armhulen wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:he's like the incredibly tough parent who loves you but will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever admit it and will instead tell you he hates you as long as it motivates you to do better

promote

I feel like this, out of all the caring amazing people oranges is up there for the people who care about me doing well the most. He's a hateful old hag but behind that peel is oranges when he equips the dog with sunglasses on the beach avatar

As a headmin, I feel it's important in your shoes to take into consideration his very obvious spotty past among a lot of our players. Are there any non-personal reasons that you feel he would succeed as an admin despite what oranges has done in the past?

If you think getting along with people is blindly agreeing with everything they say and then just passively aggressively going against it later then I guess yes in your world I might not get along with people.

I believe that getting along with people requires being honest, which means not mollifying the things I believe just because someone I like believes differently.

If the resulting argument then causes tension and drama then good, it's better we hash that out right away and move on rather than snipe and dance around each other with polite faces, leaving the tension unresolved and building all the time.

I don't like people who play lizards and cats, I won't hide that and I don't apologise for it either, we can still get along but do not expect me not to make fun of your life style choices just because you might get offended by that fact. If you can't handle that, or don't want to handle that, block me from the forum and discord and we'll never have to chat about it again.

If you feel it bleeds into my administration actions against you or someone else I would expect you to immediately lay a complaint and I would expect the head admins to deal with it extremely harshly. I would hope that I would never allow my personal opinions on things to colour an administrative enforcement against someone. even though I would privately complain amongst the admins if I felt a rule was biased or inconsistent (and publically if it comes up in a policy thread)

As I would expect people to make fun of me for spending all my spare time locked up in a room writing code for a 2d sprite game.

I suppose I should post my gut response. oranges is a great guy who treats everyone the same. He'll call out what he perceives to be your bullshit if he has a problem with it and he doesn't treat people differently (which is REALLY rare and something I can respect.) That's all fine and well but he feels like he doesn't have that much respect for conflicting viewpoints and he often (although jokingly) states he'll do stuff anyways even if you tell him not to. It hasn't resulted in a horrible incident yet, but I wonder if something worse will happen in the future. His in-game conduct is pretty professional though. I'm a bit conflict at the momment.

Xhuis wrote:I disagree with your sentiment about getting along with people. Historically, anyone who has been here for some time can confirm that you have caused a lot of fighting and drama, directly or indirectly. I'm a little confused as to your view, especially given your seeming disdain for a pretty large section of our playerbase (anyone who supports mutantparts), but nevertheless. that's not my judgement to make.

Armhulen wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:he's like the incredibly tough parent who loves you but will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever admit it and will instead tell you he hates you as long as it motivates you to do better

promote

I feel like this, out of all the caring amazing people oranges is up there for the people who care about me doing well the most. He's a hateful old hag but behind that peel is oranges when he equips the dog with sunglasses on the beach avatar

As a headmin, I feel it's important in your shoes to take into consideration his very obvious spotty past among a lot of our players. Are there any non-personal reasons that you feel he would succeed as an admin despite what oranges has done in the past?

Sure, he's held the maintainer position for a very long time. He does an alright job in notes and bans, and his tickets are pretty fly. He knows how to find the issue.

CitrusGender wrote:That's all fine and well but he feels like he doesn't have that much respect for conflicting viewpoints and he often (although jokingly) states he'll do stuff anyways even if you tell him not to.

In general I don't, I am a very opinionated person and I stick to my guns, but at the same time I respect that there is a hierarchy and if a senior administrator overrules me, I'm going to respect that, even though I might complain or grumble and attempt to get things changed.

I don't see why I would need to be excellent at compromising, that's a headmin role, maybe something senior admins do.

People know where to go if they don't like a ruling I've made, they know who to contact to get my wrist slapped and we already know people are doing this.

Also it would kind of be a bit late to be picking on worrying behaviour if there was any at this point given I am a maintainer and have access to the remote server consoles.

I actually respect the institutions of /tg/ too much to let that happen.

Bear in mind I have struggled with this in the past and got demoted from maintainer several times, but I think I have moved on from that now.

I think his ideas and beliefs would be a good addition to the admin team, and I don't see him becoming a hypocrite.

Armhulen wrote: Sure, he's held the maintainer position for a very long time. He does an alright job in notes and bans, and his tickets are pretty fly. He knows how to find the issue.

You may have missed this, but oranges has been removed from his position multiple times in recent history due to very petty behavior (like chain-reverting a grammar PR he didn't like.) If you stand by your opinion in spite of that, then I can't change that.

optimumtact wrote: snip

If you will admit yourself that you dislike a large amount of the playerbase, why do you feel it is a good idea to administrate for them? Daturix has proven that having an inherent disdain for a type of player is enough to get you deadminned. Do you feel that you could do better?

If you think there are any parallels between me and Daturix I have no idea what to tell you, if you ask me, he was dishonest about what he really thought and it finally caught up with him.

I am becoming an administrator because I believe I can make /tg/ better, and I'm not going to let the fact there are parts of the meal I don't like personally get in the way of improving the parts of the meal I do like.

Legitimately, the next shitpost I get in this thread will be put on post-approval.

oranges wrote:If you think there are any parallels between me and Daturix I have no idea what to tell you, if you ask me, he was dishonest about what he really thought and it finally caught up with him.

I am becoming an administrator because I believe I can make /tg/ better, and I'm not going to let the fact there are parts of the meal I don't like personally get in the way of improving the parts of the meal I do like.

I'd like to cite the incident in January of this year, when catgirls were disabled suddenly on Bagil. Your rush to claim responsibility and make fun of the people offended caused an admintrainer at the time, sawrge, to bombard the server with meteors due to thinking you had been allowed free reign to disable them. You agitated a very large portion of the playerbase by doing that, taking clear pleasure in doing so, and didn't appear to show any remorse. What are your reasons for why I should trust you as an admin in spite of causing this?

Additionally, some time ago, you went onto the forums and Discord server of HippieStation and directed them all to the unofficial /tg/ Discord simply because you didn't like it or the people there, and wanted to cause them trouble. Do you feel as though you will show more restraint as an admin, and show consideration for the people you are adminning for?

Neither of those things have anything to do with my conduct as an administrator.

Swarge choose to fuck shit up on his own, without verifying by the channels that already exist. Yeah I took that opportunity to expose him and a few others as a bunch of whiney self entitled hypocrites and I'm pretty sure I succeeded wildly. But I didn't pull the trigger on his self destruction, he did.

The discord thing was funny to me and barely had any effect on the sligcord at all, before it also self destructed under the weight of the egos involved.

They were a trialmin? I haven't really seen them around...

he has no style he has no grace promote to admin with great pace

I am a little uneasy about the stunt last week where he fakemerged the pet collar thing and drudged all that stupid drama up again. I don't know the reasoning but I can only imagine given his previous actions and his words ITT it was just to stir up shit with cat players.

It's unrelated to adminning but it sets a precedent. It's an oranges thing to do and it's not anything that surprised anyone when they saw who did it. He's been around long enough to know where the lines are and how close he can come to crossing them before it gets serious enough to warrant any serious ramifications.

I personally find it really annoying when people feel the need to keep driving that stake in to that part of the community and enforcing this stupid divide between players. It's really fucking tiring and annoying that every month there seems top be some new brand of drama over it, especially when people (in positions of power, no less) are actively engineering it.

I want to hope better of you in an admin position but I am a little worried it's just going to be a constant cycle of "when does oranges feel it's safe enough to do something stupid again and when do the headmins feel it's been long enough since the last time to forgive him."

e:

whiney self entitled hypocrites

Also telling and a little disappointing that that's how you see all this stupid nonsense.

oranges wrote:Neither of those things have anything to do with my conduct as an administrator.

I disagree. We're all human here, and I feel that peoples' natures extends into everything they do. There is no such thing as an unbiased judge, and that extends here, too. Your personal thoughts, feelings, opinions, and demeanor will invariably extend into how you administrate and view the people you administrate for. There are billions of people on the planet; you are not the one exception, nor are you the first to feel like you are. Human nature always triumphs; your turbulent history does affect your conduct, and even discounting it, you have admitted yourself that you are blunt and abrasive. It isn't possible to have two faces without one influencing the other; I feel that denying that is a red flag, and that it's important you recognize that your past history will influence your administration. If it didn't, why would I be bringing it up here, and others be bringing it up in community rooms?

captain sawrge wrote:"when does oranges feel it's safe enough to do something stupid again and when do the headmins feel it's been long enough since the last time to forgive him."

Right, as opposed to you doing all your stupid shit at once and then finding yourself on the other side of the door

It's okay to have fun in the job, as long as you keep it limited and that's exactly what I do.

oranges wrote:

captain sawrge wrote:"when does oranges feel it's safe enough to do something stupid again and when do the headmins feel it's been long enough since the last time to forgive him."

Right, as opposed to you doing all your stupid shit at once and then finding yourself on the other side of the door

It's okay to have fun in the job, as long as you keep it limited and that's exactly what I do.

Is that all you got out of that post or should I keep probing

Don't see my name in the topic title btw.

Xhuis wrote:

oranges wrote:Neither of those things have anything to do with my conduct as an administrator.

I disagree. We're all human here, and I feel that peoples' natures extends into everything they do. There is no such thing as an unbiased judge, and that extends here, too. Your personal thoughts, feelings, opinions, and demeanor will invariably extend into how you administrate and view the people you administrate for.

If it did, then surely you would hvae some concrete examples of where I have conducted myself in a biased manner with someone based on their character instead of the content of their ahelp?

Xhuis wrote:you have admitted yourself that you are blunt and abrasive. It isn't possible to have two faces without one influencing the other; I feel that denying that is a red flag, and that it's important you recognize that your past history will influence your administration. If it didn't, why would I be bringing it up here, and others be bringing it up in community rooms?

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, I will be blunt and somewhat abrasive as an admin, if you chat shit to me you can expect to get return served. I have never denied that, I just said it wouldn't affect my ability to administrate fairly, which is exactly what we should demand.

captain sawrge wrote:

oranges wrote:

captain sawrge wrote:"when does oranges feel it's safe enough to do something stupid again and when do the headmins feel it's been long enough since the last time to forgive him."

Right, as opposed to you doing all your stupid shit at once and then finding yourself on the other side of the door

It's okay to have fun in the job, as long as you keep it limited and that's exactly what I do.

Is that all you got out of that post or should I keep probing

All else you said is you don't think it's fair for me to complain about catgirls and lizards and to constantly raise the issue.

I think it's totally fair to be honest about what I want and what I don't like, especially as someone who has such a deep and involved hand in directing the future of this game and I intend to keep going until I realise nobody is listening and give up or people listen and change their minds.

oranges wrote:

captain sawrge wrote:

oranges wrote:

captain sawrge wrote:"when does oranges feel it's safe enough to do something stupid again and when do the headmins feel it's been long enough since the last time to forgive him."

Right, as opposed to you doing all your stupid shit at once and then finding yourself on the other side of the door

It's okay to have fun in the job, as long as you keep it limited and that's exactly what I do.

Is that all you got out of that post or should I keep probing

All else you said is you don't think it's fair for me to complain about catgirls and lizards and to constantly raise the issue.

I think it's totally fair to be honest about what I want and what I don't like, especially as someone who has such a deep and involved hand in directing the future of this game and I intend to keep going until I realise nobody is listening and give up or people listen and change their minds.

That's not what I said at all, try again please!

captain sawrge wrote:Don't see my name in the topic title btw.

If you post in this thread you're inviting return comment and criticism, especially when you criticise me for doing things that you yourself have done, badly and repeatedly.

captain sawrge wrote:That's not what I said at all, try again please!

Then you'll need to be clearer with what you're trying to say, because that's all I'm picking up.

captain sawrge wrote:I am a little uneasy about the stunt last week where he fakemerged the pet collar thing and drudged all that stupid drama up again. I don't know the reasoning but I can only imagine given his previous actions and his words ITT it was just to stir up shit with cat players.

I personally find it really annoying when people feel the need to keep driving that stake in to that part of the community and enforcing this stupid divide between players. It's really fucking tiring and annoying that every month there seems top be some new brand of drama over it, especially when people (in positions of power, no less) are actively engineering it.

There's a marked difference between raising an issue and actively engineering drama and outrage to try to prove your point, at least in this gamer's humble opinion.

I have to agree with xhuis, Optimumtact isn't the nicest and most approachable person. Although, I don't think being nice is any factor in adminning skills as all admins have to do is enforce the rules. But, they aren't really active for a trialmin either... Edit: But I can't say any game admins have an extreme amount of connections other then nabski..

If it did, then surely you would hvae some concrete examples of where I have conducted myself in a biased manner with someone based on their character instead of the content of their ahelp?

I can't provide this, as admin logs are not public to me.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, I will be blunt and somewhat abrasive as an admin, if you chat shit to me you can expect to get return served. I have never denied that, I just said it wouldn't affect my ability to administrate fairly, which is exactly what we should demand.

You say, this, but in earlier posts in this thread you stated:

"I'm not going to let the fact there are parts of the meal I don't like personally get in the way of improving the parts of the meal I do like."

and

"It's okay to have fun in the job, as long as you keep it limited and that's exactly what I do."

I think that these statements reflect that it will affect your ability to administrate fairly. I feel that this thought isn't unjustified, given your colorful history and feelings on a lot of players here, as well as the way you have treated them, and it tells me that you view repeated slights against them as "just having fun."

Furthermore:

"I don't see why I would need to be excellent at compromising, that's a headmin role, maybe something senior admins do."

Compromise and agreement is a very important factor to being an admin. If you could name one admin in recent history who has begun their gameadmin status as being difficult to talk to and compromise with that has made it more than half a year, I will gladly retract that.

All these things are slightly worrying for me to see. You're contradicting yourself on your statements, and in my eyes, haven't shown any remorse for causing a great deal of strife to a great deal of people, nor do you appear to have any qualms about doing so in the future.

Powerful force for good. Incredibly hard working and never afraid to speak truth to power (or anyone else who needs to hear it).

Can't overstate how important he has been to the codebase and /tg/ as a whole.

I know he trolls sometimes but he's got a strong moral compass and will have peoples backs when it matters.

More specifically to adminning, he quit last time he felt he was going to abuse it because he was getting sick of it, which is probably the most important judgement we need admins to be able to make.

Kor wrote:Powerful force for good. Incredibly hard working and never afraid to speak truth to power (or anyone else who needs to hear it).

Can't overstate how important he has been to the codebase and /tg/ as a whole.

I know he trolls sometimes but he's got a strong moral compass and will have peoples backs when it matters.

More specifically to adminning, he quit last time he felt he was going to abuse it because he was getting sick of it, which is probably the most important judgement we need admins to be able to make.

I won't ever deny how much he has been for the server with regards to code and backend, but I can't agree with you about his compass. You understate his past as "trolling sometimes," when I think it's very clear that it goes deeper than that. Oranges has historically not cared who he hurts when he plays his little jokes, and you not seeing this kind of shocks me.

If there's one thing I can say about oranges, they are very outspoken and blunt. I wish more admins had that level of honesty because you can actually know what someone's feelings are on things. You can also share that same level of honesty with Oranges, without pulling any punches.

Kor wrote:
More specifically to adminning, he quit last time he felt he was going to abuse it because he was getting sick of it, which is probably the most important judgement we need admins to be able to make.

Er, I will note:

oranges quit during the election and he permabanned a lizard player, made a complaint about me during an ongoing round, and he spun everyone's screen during that round.

obviously, it was dealt with quickly and was probably a joke, but I dunno: I think there was some weird judgment with those circumstances.

I don't actually see much more coming out of this back-and-forth so I guess I'll just get to my point and make it short and sweet:

It seems unhealthy for the game's community to promote someone when they are taking active steps to try and divide the community and make certain, and for all intents innocent, parts of it feel unwelcome.

Oranges conduct outside of administrating shouldn't be brought into this decision because he's made it blatantly obvious he can separate it from how he normally acts.

I've never seen him be anything but a goodmin and if it weren't for the things he did outside of administrating the server this thread would likely be much shorter.

I don't really think it's a huge stretch to suggest his behavior in a position of power be considered when addressing the issue of his potential behavior in a position of power.