DMCA is no longer /tg/, Nervere has killed it

Stickymayhem · Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:49 pm

After extensive arguing with headmins, investigating what exactly went down and discussing in adminbus, the following is what happened, as far as anyone is willing to admit.

Nervere has put Rohesie, a CM player who has wanted DMCA to essentially clone CM, as project lead. This is extremely unpopular with everyone I've spoken to who cares about DMCA (Nervere doesn't). He put Francinum, a CM and /tg/ player who failed their candidacy due to poor treatment of players, and metacommed with shadowlight, the head of administration on DMCA. That's right, someone who didn't cut it as the lowest level admin on /tg/ now has total control over all the admins on DMCA. That means /tg/ admins too. For all intents and purposes the lore is dead, the /tg/ skewed side of the project is dead and DMCA will soon split off from /tg/ entirely.

How did this happen? Nervere pushed it through, getting an abstain from the other two headmins who didn't care or didn't understand the context. They both signed off on it without any understanding of the situation. After speaking to them, they have privately and publicly distanced themselves from Nervere's actions. Smart move really.

The kicker is that the headmin who claimed to want FULL TRANSPARENCY has done this all under cover of night, with no discussion with anyone else involved in DMCA other than his pet choices and the other two headmins who don't care. He couldn't even give me a straight answer on the power structure. First it was 60-40, then when questioned he moved the goalposts to "They are equal". He's scrambling and it's embarrassing.

Nervere refuses to engage, claiming I'm just mad I didn't get the job. Frankly I'm mad that the DMCA many of the /tg/ people cared about is effectively dead because of one idiot using the full extent of their power to make terrible decisions. I'd choose literally any experienced /tg/ admin over myself. I'd even choose Nervere before he made such a blunder, deceived his voters and was too stubborn to admit any wrongdoing despite his own two colleagues quietly backing away from this shitshow.

I mentioned early on in his campaign that I saw some red flags.

I guess I was right again.

tedward1337 · Post by **tedward1337** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:52 pm #440635

Has Sticky gone mad?

More news later at 6.

lmwevil · Post by **lmwevil** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:54 pm #440636

Choo choo the train from the salt mines has crashed into a puppy factory

High Impact Dolphin · Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:43 pm

let me tell you that i cannot believe that a headmin recruited experienced admins to run a thing he is inexperienced and unfamiliar with
i also cannot believe that he has done something without the community's knowledge when the main method of which he planned on communicating with the masses (his community meetings) has not begun yet
you do raise some points about questionable leadership if they're true, so we'll see what nervere responds to this with i guess

Stickymayhem · Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:44 pm

They aren't experienced admin. They have no experience adminning. One was removed as a candidate for being shitty to players, and another time metacommed

iksyp · Post by **iksyp** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:45 pm #440645

Stickymayhem wrote:They aren't experienced admin. They have no experience adminning. One was removed as a candidate for being shitty to players, and another time metacommed

he's talking about nerv you dense plant hugger

Stickymayhem · Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:50 pm

He said he can't believe a headmin, recruited experienced admins

I have no clue what he means otherwise.

High Impact Dolphin · Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:52 pm

Stickymayhem wrote:They aren't experienced admin. They have no experience adminning. One was removed as a candidate for being shitty to players, and another time metacommed

my bad then, i misread and thought francium was a prev cm admin but failed tg adminning

iksyp wrote:he's talking about nerv you dense plant hugger

haha nope

Stickymayhem · Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:56 pm

iksyp wrote:
Stickymayhem wrote:They aren't experienced admin. They have no experience adminning. One was removed as a candidate for being shitty to players, and another time metacommed
he's talking about nerv you dense plant hugger

I wish not iksyp was here he was smart

iksyp · Post by **iksyp** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:10 pm #440652

High Impact Dolphin wrote:
Stickymayhem wrote:They aren't experienced admin. They have no experience adminning. One was removed as a candidate for being shitty to players, and another time metacommed
my bad then, i misread and thought francium was a prev cm admin but failed tg adminning

iksyp wrote:he's talking about nerv you dense plant hugger
haha nope

woops sorry but your post was worded poorly
big forum response coming soon

iksyp · Post by **iksyp** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:21 pm #440655

Stickymayhem wrote:Nervere has put Rohesie, a CM player who has wanted DMCA to essentially clone CM, as project lead.

Rohesie#4152 wrote:09/10/2018
CM suffers from that kind of thing. The headmins haven't played the game in years and they are completely out of touch with the reality of the server.
So they implement policies that the low-ranking admins, the mods and stuff have to apply.
And create lore-based restrictions that are wildly unpopular among the playerbase.

PRS BY ROHESIE:

Spoiler:

Sure, minor changes, but a lot of them seem to want to shake up the meta that CM has and do something different. He's also been the de facto project lead since last term, and a maintainer pretty much since the start of the project.

Stickymayhem wrote:He put Francinum, a CM and /tg/ player who failed their candidacy due to poor treatment of players, and metacommed with shadowlight, the head of administration on DMCA. That's right, someone who didn't cut it as the lowest level admin on /tg/ now has total control over all the admins on DMCA.

i've been searching on the forums for evidence of this and all i've found is the staffing log mentioning that he got deadminned for metacomms with "a player" so i'm going to assume your right but better citation please

i'm fairly certain he had this level of control during the previous term too, or atleast he implied it when he said

Francinum#0001 wrote:09/01/2018
Ask Ninja or Rohesie
not me
I just do policy

Stickymayhem wrote:That means /tg/ admins too.

Literally how, /tg/ and DM;CA are the same community but unless you guys did something as braindead as make a shared adminbus channel between the two servers the administration is basically seperate.

Stickymayhem wrote:For all intents and purposes the lore is dead, the /tg/ skewed side of the project is dead and DMCA will soon split off from /tg/ entirely.

The lore isn't really dead, and the only real lore draft we have is yours, it's just no one actually cares to work on lore because surprise surprise, the /tg/ coding community is filled with more programmer-types than creative-types. Since there's a lot of respriting involved in changing lore it's going

Rohesie#4152 wrote:09/10/2018
I disagree on the lore, but if the people doing it are the people playing in the server you will see me giving my opinion as another player, but no more.

basically unless i'm wrong and he goes full lügenpresse he doesn't control lore

Stickymayhem wrote:I mentioned early on in his campaign that I saw some red flags.

I guess I was right again.

you pretty much said verbatim he will become the hitler of /tg/ during his campaign so of course no one took you seriously

sticky you bring up some valid points but i feel like you're shitflinging a bit here
then again i don't have access to adminbus so i might have missed out on some of the details

Post by **oranges** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:01 pm #440659

that's okay we didn't see it either because it happened in the tgs-leads channel

factoryman942 · Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:14 pm

doing this without announcing it ahead of time, especially to players, is a bit of a shit move
even just popping a message into the forums would've been good enough

but without leadership of any kind, the thing immediately flops, and the only alternatives I can think of might be alphonzo for admongs and ninja for coders, both of whom already have /tg/ admin/maintainership to deal with, so it's probably for the best that it's headed by people without /tg/ positions

Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:33 pm

so is it really and truly not associated with /tg/ anymore or is this a clickbait thing

obscolene · Post by **obscolene** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:47 pm #440673

PKPenguin321 wrote:so is it really and truly not associated with /tg/ anymore or is this a clickbait thing

Sticky is upset that a headmin appointed 2 /tg/ PLAYERS as DMCA Manager and DMCA Lead Administrator instead of appointing 2 /tg/ ADMINS. Due to his personal bias against the 2 people Nervere appointed, he (Sticky) made a thread complaining about it and has unofficially declared DMCA to be 'dead.'

TL;DR: All of the broccoli went to Sticky's head and his brain is now in a vegetative state.

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:52 pm #440674

I would argue that if 2 headmins both abstain they are as responsible for the change as though theyd said yes

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:57 pm #440675

Rohasie isnt really a tg player

Rohesie · Post by **Rohesie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:32 am #440684

Hello, Sticky! I'm very much not a fan of drama and would have really preferred to have had a chat about it, or something, but alright.

There is some lack of knowledge on how things happened, and there are conflicting views on the future of the project. I'll try to recap things.

Originally DMCA started with the CM code leak. MSO decided he'd give a safe harbor for an open-source "CM fork to thrive somewhat protected from DMCA takedowns", partly quoting him (I hope he doesn't mind).
Among the coders, Oranges opposed the project and refused to associate the /tg/ code side with it. Ninjanomnom embraced it, however, and became the head dev. His stated goal is to rebase to /tg/.
Among the headmins only Rustled manifested active interest and took it upon himself to lead it (though Citrus did help as well). His initial stated goal was for DMCA to eventually move into its own thing, though later after we actually started organizing things and hosted the server with a few changes for a few rounds interest increased in /tg/, and it was considered to keep DMCA inside /tg/ instead.

Before we started hosting it I approached Rustled and told him about my intention to help out. My goal was to provide a similar experience than CM, but with a more relaxed moderation, open-source and a more friendly playerbase. He introduced me to ninjanomnom and Francinum and we started working to get things running. In time I had to take more and more responsibilities because Rustled had health issues and ninjanomnom is busy with an important project for /tg/, and right now I'm basically reviewing other's code as one of the code maintainers and setting up the new staff and policy, trying to ensure we can eventually go live 24/7. Those responsibilities plus the DMCA takedown notice (which recently taken measures will hopefully neutralize) have stalled my code contributions, unfortunately, but I hope that changes.

On the /tg/ staff proper, besides Rustled only three admins took active interest in moderating the server: alphonzo, subject and tsaricide. I'm very grateful for that, and I hope they stay on board. I haven't seen much interest from the rest, most of them don't care, don't know or don't want to be associated with DMCA.

As you all know, Rustled suffered from health issues and eventually stepped down. The elected headmins I spoke with seemed all in favor of him continuing to lead the project after his term had finished, but life happens. And then we arrived to the current situation.
From what I know Nervere consulted the other two headmins and they did not really care, which is very much not a surprise here. So they took it upon themselves to find a substitute. They approached MSO and me and asked me if I wanted to lead it, probably due that I was kind of actually doing that already while Rustled could not. If I didn't step up we would be running around like headless chickens and nothing would be done. Since Fran was the other option I invited him to the conversation and he agreed on me leading while he took care of more administrative duties. Nervere put that decision to vote for MSO and the other headmins and from I was told it was unanimous (plus nijanomnom who abstained because he doesn't want to be involved in administrative matters). I then decided to include AIIA because there has been nobody more active than them while the server was up, answering every mentor-related AHelp and liaison's fax.

That's kind of my story. I'm playing in more positions than I'd like and trying to delegate, but unfortunately interest is not huge and not everyone is willing to contribute.

Now, about you. I've never seen you admin the server, you haven't contributed to a single line of code that I know of, haven't sprited, helped building up a wiki or basically anything that I can recall. All I know you've done is create a lorebus channel in where people give ideas and you give yourself the position of Loremaster, deciding on which ideas will pass and which won't, determining the future a server you don't play, moderate or code for. The mechanics of which you've shown profound ignorance in.

Look, I have nothing against you personally, but I'll quote myself on what I suspect triggered this little piece of drama (and by this I stand):

It's not a personal attack. I've heard good things about you from people I think highly of.
I disagree on the lore, but if the people doing it are the people playing in the server you will see me giving my opinion as another player, but no more.
If it's not, then I have no interest in something imposed from the outside.
CM suffers from that kind of thing. The headmins haven't played the game in years and they are completely out of touch with the reality of the server.
So they implement policies that the low-ranking admins, the mods and stuff have to apply.
And create lore-based restrictions that are wildly unpopular among the playerbase.
All that said, if you are involved with DMCA and see you around as I see a lot people here, either contributing to the code, helping staff the server to keep it up, making guides and resources for other players, or just playing and enjoying the results of the collaborative effort? Then I think you really care about the server, and you should have a say on where it goes.

You do bring up important points here, though. DMCA is not properly /tg/ and it never was, though the idea of turning it into has been considered. The truth is that the game mode is not suited to /tg/ playstyle, the code base is old as hell, and if you wanted to make a Humans vs Xenos game mode you'd have a much easier job adding CM features to a /tg/ base than trying to rebase CM. There's also Corp Mercs which fills that niche out there.

DMCA is a project done by volunteers, hosted and sponsored by /tg/. It is done by players of both CM and /tg/, and hopefully from other place as well.

As for the future, it's still on diapers, it's hard to tell. The head dev wants to rebase to /tg/, and there's a shared ideal of eventually turning it into a /tg/ game mode, but to be realistic that will take a long time and depend not only on a lot of work in DMCA to rebase it, but also on /tg/ to be able to support that kind of modularity. Don't expect that anytime soon.

Regarding the administration, the game mode is different, the setting is different, and the player base is not entirely the same. The rules are not either. I see no logic in it sharing the same administration than /tg/, specially as the /tg/ administration in general is not particularly interested in dealing with DMCA directly. So if it was up to me we'd remain linked at a codebase and server level (paying up for our share of the server costs) and remain separate but on good terms with the /tg/ administration.

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:36 am #440685

I mean, headmin shezza wouldn't be so bad after all.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:26 am #440694

The sooner DMCA dies the better

ShadowDimentio · Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:31 am

What even is the point of a project lead when literally the entire team of coders are volunteers who don't give a shit what the "project lead" wants and just want to port more Paradise alien races or whatever?

Rohesie · Post by **Rohesie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:57 am #440698

To be fair a project lead has not been determined. Ninjanomnom is the head coder or whatever, and cares mostly about code quality. I'm the only maintainer and I'm basically dealing with game balance. If you can code, are interested and contributing to the server, and can be trusted by Ninjanomnom, then you can also join.

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:50 am #440711

*WAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH SOMEONE WHO'S EMPOWERED TO MAKE DECISIONS MADE A DECISION I DON'T LIKE. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH*

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:52 am #440716

I'm not sawrge

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:01 am #440720

Poor Sticky's brain turned to mush because he needs protein from meat he doesn't eat

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:05 am #440728

obvious attempt to try to bypass established power structure by attempting to rally some sort of "revolt" is obvious. Don't like how powers are established and decisions are made? Leave.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:10 am #440756

I believe sticky does have some merit. It's true that not many tg admins have taken an interest in DMCA. Honestly, it only being up on the weekends puts a damper on participating.

The whole affiliation with /tg/ is what makes everything messy. You say yourself Rohesie that Ninja wants to rebase it to /tg/, and right now, it's being payed for by /tg/ basically. Does this mean, that the servers will share ban databases? It is true that they are different codebases, but all tg admins can readily join DMCA, have the admin role and administrate as of now, so does that even have merit since us admins have open season to admin DMCA? For that same reason, opposition to Francinum has come up because they not only failed their trialminship on regular /tg/ but also metacommed and didn't get banned for it.

I know they "know" the codebase of CM, but I can see why it doesn't fit well with people. You said it yourself, right now DMCA is made up of people from CM AND /tg/. They both have a stake in it. Changes of power, lack of direction, and lack of interest is putting DMCA in a bad spot. On one hand, people can be upset with how it's being run because they have different views on it, on the other hand, not participating but still getting mad about it is a bit hypocritical. On the third hand, not everyone can sprite or code, so is interest only measured in these things? I know for admins, it's easier to just manage to get online, play the game and start learning everything, but for everyone else, it seems more up in the air.

Lore isn't a huge deal I think, if not even everyone is on the same page on whether or not DMCA will be a /tg/ brand server or just it's own separate thing sponsored by /tg/. I understand the drama because to be honest, sticky is right that all this shit had little to no transparency and is all over the place. As of now, headmin nervere seems to have taken the reigns and done something, maybe not the best way, but sticky is also just blowing up. Eager to see what happens from here honestly.

ShadowDimentio · Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:20 am

vcordie wrote:obvious attempt to try to bypass established power structure by attempting to rally some sort of "revolt" is obvious. Don't like how powers are established and decisions are made? Leave.

Says the literally who. I don't even like Sticky, don't make me defend him.

Rohesie · Post by **Rohesie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:25 am #440762

NikNakFlak wrote:I believe sticky does have some merit. It's true that not many tg admins have taken an interest in DMCA. Honestly, it only being up on the weekends puts a damper on participating.

I do agree that he has some merit. The project has unfortunately been sold in different packages to different people, so it's natural some of them may feel scammed now.
On it being up on the weekends putting a damper, I'm not sure what to say. Oranges has publicly discouraged potential /tg/ coders from participating in the project (an attitude I very much don't resent him for, I merely wouldn't call it support) and I and others have been participating since before it was up. Most of the contributors are players, not staff, save for the aforementioned exceptions.

NikNakFlak wrote:The whole affiliation with /tg/ is what makes everything messy. You say yourself Rohesie that Ninja wants to rebase it to /tg/, and right now, it's being payed for by /tg/ basically.

MSO has put the patreon link in the DMCA server as well and I've offered to cover for the costs of the server. He has other plans, however.

NikNakFlak wrote:Does this mean, that the servers will share ban databases? It is true that they are different codebases, but all tg admins can readily join DMCA, have the admin role and administrate as of now, so does that even have merit since us admins have open season to admin DMCA? For that same reason, opposition to Francinum has come up because they not only failed their trialminship on regular /tg/ but also metacommed and didn't get banned for it.

/tg/'s administration works on an appointment basis. I didn't even know Fran before I started contributing. He was Rustled's personal choice, the only headmin who took the project seriously and was willing to work for it.
The answer to most of your questions would be "it's not yet defined", and that's the truth of this. Rustled was forced by life events away from the server and there are no definitions. Ninjanomnom does not care about the administrative part, nor wants that responsibility, and MSO is also busy at the moment. And most headmins? They either don't care or they don't want to intervene in something they are not taking active participation or know well. Both the former and the recently-elected ones.

I can try to give you my opinion, and it's by having one and actually doing something about it that I ended up being chosen. But don't take this as a very authoritative answer:
1) The servers wouldn't share ban databases, though bans could be mirrored and they would be transparent to each other. The rules are different, after all, but the more integration the better, IMO.
2) /tg/ admins can join DMCA because there is not enough staff. If it becomes its own thing, with its own tone and rules that wouldn't be automatically true, though trusted /tg/ admins would have a very easy entry. Myself I was thinking about keeping "/tg/ Admin" as a regular admin rank for those who don't abuse it.
3) I can't speak for Francinum's past, I can only say that the people condemning him weren't there helping admin the server when we needed it, and we are not really having high standards when it comes to offers of help. I'll take their complaints more seriously if they step up willing to contribute in the same way he is.

NikNakFlak wrote:I know they "know" the codebase of CM, but I can see why it doesn't fit well with people. You said it yourself, right now DMCA is made up of people from CM AND /tg/. They both have a stake in it. Changes of power, lack of direction, and lack of interest is putting DMCA in a bad spot. On one hand, people can be upset with how it's being run because they have different views on it, on the other hand, not participating but still getting mad about it is a bit hypocritical. On the third hand, not everyone can sprite or code, so is interest only measured in these things? I know for admins, it's easier to just manage to get online, play the game and start learning everything, but for everyone else, it seems more up in the air.

I'm not a fan of quoting myself, but I'll do it anyway, again:

All that said, if you are involved with DMCA and see you around as I see a lot people here, either contributing to the code, helping staff the server to keep it up, making guides and resources for other players, or just playing and enjoying the results of the collaborative effort? Then I think you really care about the server, and you should have a say on where it goes.

This means that if you code, admin, mentor, sprite, map, or even just play, you are part of it. That is my take on the matter. If you do nothing of that then I don't see why you care at all.

NikNakFlak wrote:Lore isn't a huge deal I think, if not even everyone is on the same page on whether or not DMCA will be a /tg/ brand server or just it's own separate thing sponsored by /tg/. I understand the drama because to be honest, sticky is right that all this shit had little to no transparency and is all over the place. As of now, headmin nervere seems to have taken the reigns and done something, maybe not the best way, but sticky is also just blowing up. Eager to see what happens from here honestly.

I think people here are severely misrepresenting how things work. I'm struggling daily to get people interested in doing things, and people in charge to take decisions. Nervere took it upon themselves to actually get something done and put in charge some form of leadership among people who were actually participating, because frankly there is very few people interested in doing absolutely anything or assuming any kind of responsibility.

I didn't come here for drama nor for power play. I just want this project to work, as I see a lot of potential for it. If you are unsatisfied and want to change things, come over. We could really use help, as long as you are qualified (or merely enthusiastic) and acting in good faith.

Stickymayhem · Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:55 am

obscolene wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:so is it really and truly not associated with /tg/ anymore or is this a clickbait thing
Sticky is upset that a headmin appointed 2 /tg/ PLAYERS as DMCA Manager and DMCA Lead Administrator instead of appointing 2 /tg/ ADMINS. Due to his personal bias against the 2 people Nervere appointed, he (Sticky) made a thread complaining about it and has unofficially declared DMCA to be 'dead.'

TL;DR: All of the broccoli went to Sticky's head and his brain is now in a vegetative state.

I have no personal issues with Rohesie or Francinum but putting a player who didn't even make it through being a candidate in charge of all of the admins with zero discussion, and a non-tg player in charge of a tg server all under cover of night with zero discussion and constantly changing the reasoning every time someone else criticizes it is shady as fuck.

Stickymayhem · Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:58 am

iksyp wrote:
Stickymayhem wrote:Nervere has put Rohesie, a CM player who has wanted DMCA to essentially clone CM, as project lead.

Rohesie#4152 wrote:09/10/2018
CM suffers from that kind of thing. The headmins haven't played the game in years and they are completely out of touch with the reality of the server.
So they implement policies that the low-ranking admins, the mods and stuff have to apply.
And create lore-based restrictions that are wildly unpopular among the playerbase.
PRS BY ROHESIE:
Spoiler:
#72 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 18/pull/72
#85 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 18/pull/85
#114 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/114
#146 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/146
#200 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/200
#246 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/246
#248 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/248
#249 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/249
#262 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/262
#265 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/265
#322 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/322
#330 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/330
#346 - https://github.com/ColonialMarines-Mirr ... 8/pull/346
yeah i was going to link them to the numbers but i forgot and it's already done so fuck you
Sure, minor changes, but a lot of them seem to want to shake up the meta that CM has and do something different. He's also been the de facto project lead since last term, and a maintainer pretty much since the start of the project.
Stickymayhem wrote:He put Francinum, a CM and /tg/ player who failed their candidacy due to poor treatment of players, and metacommed with shadowlight, the head of administration on DMCA. That's right, someone who didn't cut it as the lowest level admin on /tg/ now has total control over all the admins on DMCA.
i've been searching on the forums for evidence of this and all i've found is the staffing log mentioning that he got deadminned for metacomms with "a player" so i'm going to assume your right but better citation please

i'm fairly certain he had this level of control during the previous term too, or atleast he implied it when he said
Francinum#0001 wrote:09/01/2018
Ask Ninja or Rohesie
not me
I just do policy

Stickymayhem wrote:That means /tg/ admins too.
Literally how, /tg/ and DM;CA are the same community but unless you guys did something as braindead as make a shared adminbus channel between the two servers the administration is basically seperate.
Stickymayhem wrote:For all intents and purposes the lore is dead, the /tg/ skewed side of the project is dead and DMCA will soon split off from /tg/ entirely.
The lore isn't really dead, and the only real lore draft we have is yours, it's just no one actually cares to work on lore because surprise surprise, the /tg/ coding community is filled with more programmer-types than creative-types. Since there's a lot of respriting involved in changing lore it's going
Rohesie#4152 wrote:09/10/2018
I disagree on the lore, but if the people doing it are the people playing in the server you will see me giving my opinion as another player, but no more.
basically unless i'm wrong and he goes full lügenpresse he doesn't control lore

Stickymayhem wrote:I mentioned early on in his campaign that I saw some red flags.

I guess I was right again.
you pretty much said verbatim he will become the hitler of /tg/ during his campaign so of course no one took you seriously

sticky you bring up some valid points but i feel like you're shitflinging a bit here
then again i don't have access to adminbus so i might have missed out on some of the details

I'll get my shit pushed in if I leak tgsleada probably so you'll have to take me at my word unless one of the headmins tells a different story here, at which point I'll post logs.

Plenty of admins have seen how fucky this was I'm adminbus so I'm not alone here, but not all of them feel like going on a crusade about it. Nervere has been dodging questions left and right in adminbus for a couple days now.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:27 am #440772

Rohesie wrote:/tg/'s administration works on an appointment basis.

I wasn't told this. I was told all /tg/ admins had admin on DMCA, and when I logged in to DMCA a few weekends ago, I had my game admin rank in DMCA. If this is changed, it's news to me.
I disagree with some of what you are saying, but what I basically got out of your post was that MSO has his own ideas about what to do and he'll probably be the one who makes the call.

Stickymayhem · Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:32 am

I won't quote you because long and I'm on mobile but Rohesie, while I disagree with you I don't think you're a bad guy or incompetent, but you do not represent tg interests and tg has lost its stake in this shared server. We no longer have a voice up there that cares about the tg playerbase.

We did have alternatives to Francinum. I'm sure you feel the same thing I do, that you want the project to succeed and don't necessarily want to have to be the one to step up. I've had authority before and I don't want that job again but I offered myself and nervere ignored me entirely in favour of someone totally inexperienced with a shit history.

Can you explain why he chose Francinum over a two time headmins who's been adminning for five years and is already contributing to and organizing parts of the project?

You also didn't acknowledge that this person now outrank all /tg/ admins in one sudden promotion. We all now answer to someone who has skipped the procedure, couldn't get past the first level of our own process and has broken one of the most severe rules on the server.

To top it all off, nervere pushed this through without anyone knowing, without any clear power structure, without even ninja knowing how the structure is meant to work. Nervere sold different things to different people and told everyone a different story about this situation and the goalposts shuffling is practically quantum at this point.

The other two headmins didn't care, didn't check into the context and just blindly approved nerveres decision admitting they didn't know anything. Their mistake was assuming nervere knew anything.

Can you understand now why I and others are mad about this decision?

Stickymayhem · Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:33 am

NikNakFlak wrote:
Rohesie wrote:/tg/'s administration works on an appointment basis.
I wasn't told this. I was told all /tg/ admins had admin on DMCA, and when I logged in to DMCA a few weekends ago, I had my game admin rank in DMCA. If this is changed, it's news to me.
I disagree with some of what you are saying, but what I basically got out of your post was that MSO has his own ideas about what to do and he'll probably be the one who makes the call.

MSO is not overruling the decision he wants to just let whatever happens happen. He doesn't care whether it splits off or not and he isn't representing tg interests in the specifics of how the server plays. He just wants CM code to be open source.

Rohesie · Post by **Rohesie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:30 am #440781

NikNakFlak wrote:
Rohesie wrote:/tg/'s administration works on an appointment basis.
I wasn't told this. I was told all /tg/ admins had admin on DMCA, and when I logged in to DMCA a few weekends ago, I had my game admin rank in DMCA. If this is changed, it's news to me.
I disagree with some of what you are saying, but what I basically got out of your post was that MSO has his own ideas about what to do and he'll probably be the one who makes the call.

That hasn't changed. When the test comes up this weekend it will remain so. I'm talking about the future, if our administrative structures split.

Stickymayhem wrote:I won't quote you because long and I'm on mobile but Rohesie, while I disagree with you I don't think you're a bad guy or incompetent, but you do not represent tg interests and tg has lost its stake in this shared server. We no longer have a voice up there that cares about the tg playerbase.

I'm not sure I even understand this. /tg/ has lost its stake? This is a project largely ran by players from both servers, non-staff. If by /tg/ you mean /tg/ administrators, perhaps. Those who have staffed and helped in the server do have a voice, though. I mean, you don't really expect people to just work for you while you don't contribute, now do you?

Stickymayhem wrote:We did have alternatives to Francinum. I'm sure you feel the same thing I do, that you want the project to succeed and don't necessarily want to have to be the one to step up. I've had authority before and I don't want that job again but I offered myself and nervere ignored me entirely in favour of someone totally inexperienced with a shit history.

Please name me alternatives. I've been annoying MSO, ninjanomnom, Rustled and the headmins for them to make decisions for quite a while and it's not precisely the best feeling. Who's experienced, with a good history, is collaborating and wants to help?

Stickymayhem wrote:Can you explain why he chose Francinum over a two time headmins who's been adminning for five years and is already contributing to and organizing parts of the project?

You were the other candidate? Francinum has put work for the server, helping out Rustled with policy and actually moderating it whenever it went on. You may have all the qualifications in the world, but if you don't do anything to contribute why do you expect to be considered?
Also what have you organized, besides the lore? I could talk about that but it wouldn't be flattering.

Stickymayhem wrote:You also didn't acknowledge that this person now outrank all /tg/ admins in one sudden promotion. We all now answer to someone who has skipped the procedure, couldn't get past the first level of our own process and has broken one of the most severe rules on the server.

If you consider DMCA as another /tg/ server, in the same way as Terry or whatever, yes, that is pretty outrageous. But here is where our interpretations differ. Terry uses the same code, rules and structure. DMCA doesn't. If we were to depend on the /tg/ administration the server would be always off or unstaffed. But this is a different game mode with a different RP-level, a different setting and different rules. Most /tg/ admins don't even care about it enough to even play, much less staff. You, yourself, don't. It's all being built by a bunch of players who want to make it happen.

Stickymayhem wrote:To top it all off, nervere pushed this through without anyone knowing, without any clear power structure, without even ninja knowing how the structure is meant to work. Nervere sold different things to different people and told everyone a different story about this situation and the goalposts shuffling is practically quantum at this point.

The other two headmins didn't care, didn't check into the context and just blindly approved nerveres decision admitting they didn't know anything. Their mistake was assuming nervere knew anything.

Can you understand now why I and others are mad about this decision?

I can understand both why you are mad and also how out of touch with things you are. Welcome to DMCA, in where nobody wants to take responsibility but suddenly some want to determine how things go.

I don't blame Nervere at all. If I had found myself as headmin, completely disinterested in the project, finding my other two headmins equally disinterested, but feeling a little responsibility not to see it sink? I'd do similarly. I'd look for those who are trying to keep it floating and put them in charge.

All that said, I'm very much not against re-viewing myself in this position. As said, I'm playing in more fields than I'd like, and my ability to shape up the game through code changes has suffered severely, which is kind of the reason I came here for: to try to fix the things I thought wrong in CM. I just don't think you, Sticky, are a proper substitute by your contributions so far. No offense intended.

Stickymayhem wrote:MSO is not overruling the decision he wants to just let whatever happens happen. He doesn't care whether it splits off or not and he isn't representing tg interests in the specifics of how the server plays. He just wants CM code to be open source.

Well, I share that goal with MSO, personally.

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:38 am #440782

ShadowDimentio wrote:
vcordie wrote:obvious attempt to try to bypass established power structure by attempting to rally some sort of "revolt" is obvious. Don't like how powers are established and decisions are made? Leave.
Says the literally who. I don't even like Sticky, don't make me defend him.

If you don't know me, be glad you don't. also, doesn't change the fact the elected headmins are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want so who gives a shit what you, me, OR sticky thinks.

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:49 am #440785

"Can you explain why he chose Francinum over a two time headmins who's been adminning for five years and is already contributing to and organizing parts of the project?"

tldr; sticky feels insulted that a filthy "PLAYER" and a "FAILURE" got picked for dmca headmin so he starts a "waaah waaah" thread

NSFW:

edit: asking people why another person did something is quite retarded when you yourself say that he didn't tell you his reasons

"cover of the night" is also retarded because its only 8pm in europe, its not even that late you crybaby

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:56 am #440787

Also I find it ironic that someone who literally brags in their signature about getting banned a lot has any complaints about the suitability of anybody else. I suggest not shitting where you eat.

Stickymayhem · Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:57 am

More that this was all done randomly by someone who doesn't give a shit and no tg people were considered. If you want to simplify the issue to sticky mad be my guest but your opinion holds literally no sway with anyone

I'd pick any interested tg person over myself, but there aren't any

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:57 am #440789

If tg people weren't picked it's probably because tg people aren't fucking engaged. Also, last I checked francium was fucking tg. You basically owe clock cult to him, along with joan.

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:59 am #440790

Stickymayhem wrote: ... no tg people were considered ... I'd pick any interested tg person over myself ...

fucking non tg people stealing our jobs

Stickymayhem · Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:59 am

vcordie wrote:Also I find it ironic that someone who literally brags in their signature about getting banned a lot has any complaints about the suitability of anybody else. I suggest not shitting where you eat.

Jordie made me that badge how dare you

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:01 am #440792

You do realize that a server with a completely different code base designed for a completely different playstyle then /tg/ probably shouldn't have the exact same dudes running it, anyways, right?

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:05 am #440793

All nervere does is provide oppotunities for the most opressed groups of all

non tg players (gamers)

TehSteveo · Post by **TehSteveo** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:32 am #440796

vcordie wrote:You do realize that a server with a completely different code base designed for a completely different playstyle then /tg/ probably shouldn't have the exact same dudes running it, anyways, right?

Yet it does when headmins elected by /tg/ servers are making these decisions. Just pointing that out as I really have no horse to back in this much at all.

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 am #440797

and they're appointing people who aren't a part of the traditional /tg/ hierarchy to handle things, hence Sticky's temper tantrum.

Shezza · Post by **Shezza** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:38 am #440802

vcordie wrote:and they're appointing people who aren't a part of the traditional /tg/ hierarchy to handle things, hence Sticky's temper tantrum.

calm down sawrge

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:48 am #440804

I'm still mad some board admin cleared my avatar as I don't have a copy of it.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:08 am #440809

This thread really makes you Yikes

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

When the worst people on tg station are against you, you know you're right.