/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:29 pm**

Bottom post of the previous page:

watch out guys, my agenda of actually asking people what they want is going to completely destroy /tg/ and subvert it's commmunity and admins! don't you know it's best to just listen to only the headadmins! How dare I subvert their authority by asking the people they're beholden to what they think. This is a total dictatorship of democracy and we need to stop it

edit: oh also, if you want someone to blame for the poll

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:50 pm**

Shezza, I must thank you, for making the impossible seem possible......... who woulda thunk it a catgirl player is the reason cats might be removed

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:51 pm**

Yakumo_Chen wrote:As I believe Kevin has pointed out, the only people who ever unironcally use the phrase "separation of code and server" are the people with control over both.

I use it a lot

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:53 pm**

bman wrote:Shezza, I must thank you, for making the impossible seem possible......... who woulda thunk it a catgirl player is the reason cats might be removed

i love ruining everything

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:07 pm**

Shezza wrote:
bman wrote:Shezza, I must thank you, for making the impossible seem possible......... who woulda thunk it a catgirl player is the reason cats might be removed
i love ruining everything

It's great, actually. Thanks for admitting you were intentionally shit-stirring!

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:27 pm**

He was nyat

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:31 pm**

Lazengann wrote:He was nyat

I did not hit her, it's not true. It's bullshit, I did not hit her. I did not.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:01 pm**

oh hi :B:ark

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:10 pm**

Admins: Oranges acted in bad faith here's what we're doing about catgirls

Oranges: fuck you my poll won I do what I want if you don't like it tell MSO

Admins: Actually you lost the poll

Also Oranges: Actually I'm working with admins on this issue and there will be a new poll (I will not put this to rest even though my poll lost)

Players: LMAO it's oranges he's a memer he's excusable.

Chilling.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:13 pm**

this really straws my man

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:17 pm**

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Admins: Oranges acted in bad faith here's what we're doing about catgirls

Oranges: fuck you my poll won I do what I want if you don't like it tell MSO

Admins: Actually you lost the poll

Also Oranges: Actually I'm working with admins on this issue and there will be a new poll (I will not put this to rest even though my poll lost)

Players: LMAO it's oranges he's a memer he's excusable.

Chilling.

Actually

Oranges: Plans to remove cats because the clearly worded option won the majority vote.

Headmins: uhh dispute its half and half!!

Oranges: No you lost the poll take it to MSO

Headmins: Weird poll make a new one.

Oranges: fine

And then it became apparent that cats in fact won the poll

So in conclusion you’re dumb as shit.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:22 pm**

absolutely basking in yakumo making such a fool of themself rn

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:37 pm**

The fact oranges can brazenly declare a headman decision does not matter based on the results of a poll that isn't based on a code issue (it's a configuration issue) in the first place shouldn't be ignored regardless of backpedaling.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:57 pm**

You clearly don't understand what the separation means, or how it works.

Both the code base and administration are independent of each other, and both are able to force the other party to the negotiating table via the use of their independent authority.

This is a worst case option given that it's usually Mutually Assured Destruction on both sides, but it's well within my powers to make changes without consulting the headadmins.

Of course I would always prefer to communicate and cooperate and we did eventually manage to do that.

This is not a mistake, this is not an oversight, it was intentionally designed this way to prevent anyone set of people having absolute power outside of the Host. You seem to be operating under the assumption that I cannot do this, but that would be wrong.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:03 pm**

oranges wrote:You clearly don't understand what the separation means, or how it works.

Both the code base and administration are independent of each other, and both are able to force the other party to the negotiating table via the use of their independent authority.

This is a worst case option given that it's usually Mutually Assured Destruction on both sides, but it's well within my powers to make changes without consulting the headadmins.

Of course I would always prefer to communicate and cooperate and we did eventually manage to do that.

This is not a mistake, this is not an oversight, it was intentionally designed this way to prevent anyone set of people having absolute power outside of the Host. You seem to be operating under the assumption that I cannot do this, but that would be wrong.

I hope push never comes to shove and everyone can always come to a consensus. I don't see the server operating without the codebase and the codebase operating without the server, both are interdependent.
I'm glad Oranges doesn't pull an errorage and start flexing on everybody. It's not pretty when it happens.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:08 pm**

CreationPro wrote:
oranges wrote:You clearly don't understand what the separation means, or how it works.

Both the code base and administration are independent of each other, and both are able to force the other party to the negotiating table via the use of their independent authority.

This is a worst case option given that it's usually Mutually Assured Destruction on both sides, but it's well within my powers to make changes without consulting the headadmins.

Of course I would always prefer to communicate and cooperate and we did eventually manage to do that.

This is not a mistake, this is not an oversight, it was intentionally designed this way to prevent anyone set of people having absolute power outside of the Host. You seem to be operating under the assumption that I cannot do this, but that would be wrong.
I hope push never comes to shove and everyone can always come to a consensus. I don't see the server operating without the codebase and the codebase operating without the server, both are interdependent.
I'm glad Oranges doesn't pull an errorage and start flexing on everybody. It's not pretty when it happens.

its oranges and he can flex all he wants

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:10 pm**

iamgoofball wrote: its oranges and he can flex all he wants

He hates it when I capitalize the O and he's not flexing.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:23 pm**

Yakumo_Chen wrote:a bunch of retarded shit

>oranges made poll to decide whether to merge or close removal PR
>catpeople lost
>headmins try to damage control
>oranges says "okay if you guys didn't like this poll then we can make a new one soon"
>it turns out the filter was wrong
>massive backpedaling by catpeople supporters
i'm havin a big laffo @ ur expense rn chief

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:26 pm**

I've never seen a more uninformed person such as obscolene

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:27 pm**

that's how it went down

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:27 pm**

You are missing some steps but ok

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:28 pm**

we should just remove catpeople

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:29 pm**

iamgoofball wrote:
CreationPro wrote:
oranges wrote:You clearly don't understand what the separation means, or how it works.

Both the code base and administration are independent of each other, and both are able to force the other party to the negotiating table via the use of their independent authority.

This is a worst case option given that it's usually Mutually Assured Destruction on both sides, but it's well within my powers to make changes without consulting the headadmins.

Of course I would always prefer to communicate and cooperate and we did eventually manage to do that.

This is not a mistake, this is not an oversight, it was intentionally designed this way to prevent anyone set of people having absolute power outside of the Host. You seem to be operating under the assumption that I cannot do this, but that would be wrong.
I hope push never comes to shove and everyone can always come to a consensus. I don't see the server operating without the codebase and the codebase operating without the server, both are interdependent.
I'm glad Oranges doesn't pull an errorage and start flexing on everybody. It's not pretty when it happens.
its oranges and he can flex all he wants

i stopped correcting people about the O they never learn smdh

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:03 pm**

Doctor Pork wrote: i stopped correcting people about the O they never learn smdh

I will never not capitalize proper nouns
It's his damn fault he decided to use oranges as a proper noun, doctor pork

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:50 pm**

NikNakFlak wrote:You are missing some steps but ok

ok list them

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:49 am**

The cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics from the anime avatars in this thread is fucking *incredible*

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:08 am**

Why argue so much about who "deserves" more say in the server.

Goofball and Shezza are both shit and neither should have a say. They are the worst each side of the debate has to offer.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:42 am**

Rustledjimm wrote:Why argue so much about who "deserves" more say in the server.

Goofball and Shezza are both shit and neither should have a say. They are the worst each side of the debate has to offer.

You're permanently banned from catcord for this.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:00 am**

nobody deserves more say than anyone else, the policy has always been that permabanned people can still be in the community just not the game. If someone is such a shitstain they get blacklisted that's a different matter entirely, and saying someone should have a more valid opinion than someone else is a rabbithole that is out of scope from catpeople. don't engage with people if you can't have clear and calm civil discourse

or you can just rage about catpeople because this is tg :^)

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:52 am**

If you want to go the "doesn't play here but plays on a downstream" route then that applies just as much to the hippie guys that were pushing for cat removal as it does to shezza playing on nyanstation13 or wherever they are now

sure the cat downstreams can just not merge the removal PR but likewise non-cat downstreams can turn the config off or declare cats valid

all are punish'd

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:16 am**

I honestly bet that someone here would kill another person if it meant that it would make keeping/removing catpeople easier.

Worst part about this situation is that the only real middle ground is kitten ear hats (if you believe it should be removed then what about rabbit ears) since it removes any resemblance to a race, has a disadvantage, and keeps your dream of being a cat. Sadly, that clearly isn't enough. It also has the flaw that catpeople would then be human. I think that would just be a petty thing though since if catpeople were removed then the old cat players would still be human if they stayed but whatever.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:01 pm**

Ayy Lemoh wrote:I honestly bet that someone here would kill another person if it meant that it would make keeping/removing catpeople easier.

Worst part about this situation is that the only real middle ground is kitten ear hats (if you believe it should be removed then what about rabbit ears) since it removes any resemblance to a race, has a disadvantage, and keeps your dream of being a cat. Sadly, that clearly isn't enough. It also has the flaw that catpeople would then be human. I think that would just be a petty thing though since if catpeople were removed then the old cat players would still be human if they stayed but whatever.

Yes but then again there's 1-2 kitten ears on the station every round, and if you see someone wearing them you can robust them and steal the kitten ears. Pretty acceptable middle ground in my opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if the headmins kept filibustering the whole thing until cats are still in the game two months from now and no vote was ever held on the matter.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:05 pm**

Godzillan wrote:
Ayy Lemoh wrote:I honestly bet that someone here would kill another person if it meant that it would make keeping/removing catpeople easier.

Worst part about this situation is that the only real middle ground is kitten ear hats (if you believe it should be removed then what about rabbit ears) since it removes any resemblance to a race, has a disadvantage, and keeps your dream of being a cat. Sadly, that clearly isn't enough. It also has the flaw that catpeople would then be human. I think that would just be a petty thing though since if catpeople were removed then the old cat players would still be human if they stayed but whatever.
Yes but then again there's 1-2 kitten ears on the station every round, and if you see someone wearing them you can robust them and steal the kitten ears. Pretty acceptable middle ground in my opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if the headmins kept filibustering the whole thing until cats are still in the game two months from now and no vote was ever held on the matter.

>muh headmin conspiracy
wasn't this a code vote

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:06 pm**

Godzillan wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if the headmins kept filibustering the whole thing until cats are still in the game two months from now and no vote was ever held on the matter.

cats never won, huh?

Nice revisionist history

Cant believe i actually wanted cats gone in the first vote and now i'm defending them due to the garbage arguments against them post victory

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:32 pm**

dont mind karp he got high off the tailpipe of a city bus

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:49 pm**

bman wrote:dont mind karp he got high off the tailpipe of a city bus

bumba

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:53 pm**

Godzillan wrote:Yes but then again there's 1-2 kitten ears on the station every round

Delta has two free pairs lying around plus five autodrobes
The catspiracy is real

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:55 pm**

What the hell?!

This argument again?

Since back in 2014 the different race meme issue has been a raging garbage fire. First lizards, for a hot take plasma peps and now for a long haul the cat/felinids.

Seriously who the fuck really cares?! Let those that wanna be cat peps be cat peps. Honestly what affect does it have on your ability to have fun? I've never been a cat person but if a player that enjoys being a cat person adds to the overall gameplay and rp of a round then cool more power to them.

Can we focus our energy on worthwhile improvements and code changes?

This fight is honestly a waste of time and energy and isn't all that great or funny of a meme.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:06 pm**

i miss kor

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:30 pm**

Dax Dupont wrote:i miss kor

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:32 pm**

Gamarr wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:i miss kor

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:32 pm**

Nilons wrote:
Gamarr wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:i miss kor

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:36 pm**

delaron wrote:This fight is honestly a waste of time and energy and isn't all that great or funny of a meme.

the fact that it's such a pointless argument with only cosmetic implications is why so many people are drawn to argue so strongly about it
if it actually had an effect on game balance in any way then people might have to consider whether they know jack shit about things like game balance or coding before they ventured their opinions on it, but "should people be allowed to have cosmetic ears y/n" is a very simple question that anyone can grasp

it's a classic bikeshed argument only instead of a bikeshed it's the ntr hut

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:38 pm**

delaron wrote:What the hell?!

This argument again?

Since back in 2014 the different race meme issue has been a raging garbage fire. First lizards, for a hot take plasma peps and now for a long haul the cat/felinids.

Seriously who the fuck really cares?! Let those that wanna be cat peps be cat peps. Honestly what affect does it have on your ability to have fun? I've never been a cat person but if a player that enjoys being a cat person adds to the overall gameplay and rp of a round then cool more power to them.

Can we focus our energy on worthwhile improvements and code changes?

This fight is honestly a waste of time and energy and isn't all that great or funny of a meme.

People's hate doesn't come from cats being a bad race inherently. It's because cat players fall into 2 categories.

1: background character no one notices or remembers so you don't think about them. They don't add or detract from the game.

2: Incredibly annoying person who does everything in their power to drag you into their fantasy/fetish(whichever it may be for the individual)

As a player race cat people only have 1 RP/social motif going on, to be irritating. Moths are unique and most moth players are pretty chill and fun to play with, Plasmemes are unique and have the mechanical disadvantages, Lizards have the racism angle which leads to a lot of IC interaction and conflict. Cats have nothing, so the only cats who get noticed are ones who go way out of their way to be in your face and annoying. To be loud and shriek baby talk or anime stutters. That's usually only going to be interactive or amusing for the cat people players themselves.

There's no interesting or different way to interact with a cat player. RP(such as it is on TG) around cat people is a 1-way experience where they talk at you like they have a mouth full of shit. Or they're the 1st type of cat player where they just act like any nondescript human. They aren't annoying at all but you don't remember them either.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:50 pm**

People's hate doesn't come from lizards being a bad race inherently. It's because lizard players fall into 2 categories.

1: background character no one notices or remembers so you don't think about them. They don't add or detract from the game.

2: Incredibly annoying person who does everything in their power to drag you into their fantasy/fetish(whichever it may be for the individual)

As a player race lizard people only have 1 RP/social motif going on, to be irritating. Moths are unique and most moth players are pretty chill and fun to play with, Plasmemes are unique and have the mechanical disadvantages, humans have the racism angle which leads to a lot of IC interaction and conflict. Lizards have nothing, so the only lizards who get noticed are ones who go way out of their way to be in your face and annoying. To be loud and shriek hiss talk or scalie references. That's usually only going to be interactive or amusing for the lizard people players themselves.

There's no interesting or different way to interact with a lizard player. RP(such as it is on TG) around lizard people is a 1-way experience where they talk at you like they have a mouth full of shit. Or they're the 1st type of lizard player where they just act like any nondescript human. They aren't annoying at all but you don't remember them either.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:51 pm**

Almost every player in the game falls under unremarkable or annoying how is that unique to cat ears

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:57 pm**

Karp wrote:Almost every player in the game falls under unremarkable or annoying how is that unique to cat ears

Beat me to it. So the issue is annoying players? Is there a way for that to be coded against logistically?

This was the same argument made in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and now 2018. The race in question has changed but the issue was the same annoying players.

Just play your game. If they force shit on you as a non antag then escalate up, start with a "no thank you", progress to "piss off", get violent with a "kick and punch", maybe eventually crit then kill. If its a harassment issue ask for admin assistance. I think this is partially only an "issue" because we are on the internet and and meme fights are a thing to do.

The station is a big sandbox just find your corner to REEE in and leave some of the other corners alone.

*edits because I suck at typing and grammar.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:03 pm**

I don't really care what the fruit ends up doing, I'm just guessing at what's pissing off the pro-removal people. People keep rambling about "LEL IT'S JUST PIXELS", that's not why they hate them.

I think it speaks volumes how Oranges has completely subverted the power structure on tg. He has essentially declared in this thread that the only thing he answers to is MSO.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did oranges 'subvert' that? He's the head developer for /tg/ right? And there's a separation of code and administration. Doesn't that by design mean he only answers to MSO? You might not like that arrangement but that's a different conversation. Regardless of things oranges has done that people don't like his power level seems to be built directly into the structure of /tg/. If enough people hate him they should appeal it directly to MSO instead of whining in every thread he touches. You're not going to change oranges' unilateral authority over the code by complaining all over, make threads, get the 3 headmins to make a case to MSO.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:26 pm**

hey you are all stupid on this, people in charge should make a decision already and stick to it you stupid weaklings

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:27 am**

lzimann wrote:people in charge should make a decision already and stick to it

Huh, I was just thinking about you today.

Nice advice, though.

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:37 am**

The community is almost perfectly divided here. It's 50/50. I'm sure oranges is losing sleep trying to find a new filter he can apply to the votes to get whichever result he personally wants at the moment.

Instead of arguing that I have the majority by one or two votes, I'm going to talk about the issue instead.
The people who oppose felinids being in the game are doing it because felinids are vaguely centered around sex appeal. The average TGstation player is an American, a creature which gets its penis mutilated at birth to deny it sexual pleasure, then grows up in a religious dominated society being told that anything casually sexual is evil. This becomes deeply ingrained in the instincts of just about every American, myself included. These people then attempt to impose their anti-sex brainwashing on the topic of people having harmless fun with vaguely sexual catgirl avatars in a space station RPG.

This is the real crux of the issue. It's the tone of all the righteous voices speaking against felinids being in the game: that felinids are ``degenerate''. It is thinly masked antisex moral outrage, against something that is only very indirectly sexual to begin with.

I direct this question to coders like oranges especially. You are not just number monkeys, you're also artists. You are doing something creative here, making SS13. Do you believe censorship is helpful to a creative endeavor? Is it better to cater to people who enjoy an idea, or to people who have highhandedly decided on ``moral'' grounds that no one should be allowed to enjoy it?

To anyone against felinids, please do not reply with lowercaps irony. Just be genuine for thirty seconds and stop being afraid of what people think of you. Explain to me why the opposition to felinids is not based on moral outrage. Why does it sound that way, and why do those involved seem concerned not with improving their personal game experience, but with meddling specifically in what others should be allowed to do? This is clear from how they are not satisfied with felinids being blacklisted on server #2, but want a global ban.

/tg/Station 13

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