Results of the felinid vote

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Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:45 am #453416

https://tgstation13.org/tgdb/irvpolltal ... k4Tw%3D%3D - Pre filtering

https://tgstation13.org/tgdb/irvpolltal ... yo1g%3D%3D - Post Filtering

Filter used is pretty simple and was agreed ahead of running the poll by headadmins and myself, we required at least 60 minutes of time as a living character (that's any crew roundstart etc) in the window of 30th September to October 5th (which is the day the *first* poll started).

This eliminates anyone who hasn't played a minimum standard of required time, and also excludes people who got that playtime in the days after the first poll, so as to avoid any gaming of the vote.


As you can see, the option preferred was the etherals option.

I think we should respect that result, but I am not immune to the arguments that there are people who have a lot of investment in their cat character. The headadmins and I have agreed on the following compromise.
1) Etherals are merged
2) a new config option is added that prevents people selecting the felinid species in the character setup screen, but does not prevent existing characters
3) from at least the codebase side - we will put a pin in all felinid related changes for 12 months, including strict bans for anyone who doesn't run changes past us (the headcoders), and then commit to seeing what the community looks like after that time has run it's course

to be more clear from the technical standpoint
IF you had a felinid character pre the config being set, then you keep that character and can modify their attributes, however, you can't select the species when editing character slots, and if you change the species on that character, you can't get it back without admin intervention, which you should not expect either.

There's no exact timeline on each item being implemented, so we'll get to it when we get to it, so if you somehow care about felnids but dont' already have a character, now would be a good time to set one up (don't forget you get more character slots if you donate to byond).

Naturally the nature of a compromise being what it is, neither side will be happy with the outcome, but that's life, over time, as the felinid players move on, or find other characters that interest them, these characters will age out, and we can react appropriately at a later date, so if you're prepared to be patient, then you will see a shift in time.
Last edited by oranges on Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:50 am, edited 3 times in total.



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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby subject217 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:48 am #453418

first reply to an epic post
thankfully former admin
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20553

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Qbmax32 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:49 am #453420

second reply to an epic post
my admin feedback thread


quotes
Spoiler:
Malkraz wrote:YES
DRINK THE PISS QB


angelstarri wrote:qbmax is a retard


imsxz wrote:mythic please stop you’ve hit rock bottom and you KEEP DIGGING


deedubya wrote:I'll defend to the death your right to scream "NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER" on a constant basis, but I'll also equally defend the right of people to call you a fuckin' pillock for doing it.

datorangebottle wrote:what, not having to act like customer service in a volunteer customer service position?

Here's a rebuttal: you're literally in a customer service slash celebrity position. Volunteer or not.

Malkraz wrote:can you stop posting this shit

Nalzul wrote:Fuck Blob (can you imagine how hot it would be to be gangbanged by a bunch of blobbernauts, the blob, and spores)

Wyzack wrote:qbmax your pathetic display of abhorrent burgercraft has brought shame onto the omnivores

Plapatin wrote:i AM the senate

BONERMASTER wrote:I am a big thinker, and it would only be logical if my character had a big head as well. And glasses. Because only people that think, wear glasses.

feem wrote:i tried to send canisters of urine to the station but ended up turning all oxygen into urine and breaking lavaland and also breathing

Anonmare wrote:Each post in this thread can't settle on what it wants to be, but yet, each one is more cursed than the last.

Beesting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.

Vile Beggar wrote:i don't like this thread

imsxz wrote:nervore

FantasticFwoosh wrote:I will whisper sweet nothings that will confuse and perhaps scare you a little, but enhance the experience no-less.

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:By the way, the person who posted that catgirl porn on the github page was me. If anyone wants my private stash just PM me

Nervere wrote:Anything for a femoid.....

Qbopper wrote:I'm a dumb poopy butthead

CitrusGender wrote:god i love it when people feed me my own fried legs

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:50 am #453421

So you mean, cat girls stay. But there are no more cat-girls. And if the previous cat-girls accidentally goof up and change there race from cat-girl. They cannot be a cat-girl anymore.

Huh, cat-girls are a rare and endangered race now. Nice

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:51 am #453422

Well it's subject to the whim of the admin online at the time, but it's not guaranteed that they might help you out if you mess up.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:52 am #453423

oranges wrote:Well it's subject to the whim of the admin online at the time, but it's not guaranteed that they might help you out if you mess up.


Well, is there anything preventing the admin from just making everyone who asks for it, a cat girl?

This sort of sounds like a different polling option

Edit: To clarify, Cat-Girl whitelist boys. You gotta make the admins deem your a respectable player to get the cat-girl
Last edited by Shadowflame909 on Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:53 am #453424

That would be considered bypassing headmin config and is treated very seriously.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:54 am #453425

Note that it doesn't apply to making someone a cat for a meme or something, since that won't apply after round end.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:56 am #453426

oranges wrote:That would be considered bypassing headmin config and is treated very seriously.


I understand now. I wonder if we're going to see a rise of a whole bunch of cat-girl alternative characters. Just so people can flaunt that they had a cat-girl character before the restriction.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:01 am #453428

configuration items, like all configuration items, can be freely changed by developers cosmic, you only need a text editor

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:03 am #453430

oranges wrote:I think we should respect that result, but I am not immune to the arguments that there are people who have a lot of investment in their cat character.


What about the argument that you should not have included a "Remove felinids and merge ethereals" option without a "Keep felinids and merge ethereals" option, because that's voter bribery?

How does this satisfy either party? Catgirls are not censored like the anti- crowd wanted, and people can't freely play as the race, like the pro- crowd wanted. I don't see the purpose but I guess you're going to stick with it because you made your very important decision that ultimately had nothing whatsoever to do with the faux-democratic buildup.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:04 am #453431

Thats the point of a compromise.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:04 am #453432

Steelpoint wrote:Thats the point of a compromise.

I think the point of a compromise is actually to make both parties happy, not to make both parties unhappy.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:04 am #453434

with enough time, the remove option wins, while' still preventing those people with investment in their catgirl characters from feeling alienated immediately.

Long term, the outcome is still as the poll wants.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:06 am #453435

oranges wrote:with enough time, the remove option wins, while' still preventing those people with investment in their catgirl characters from feeling alienated immediately.

Long term, the outcome is still as the poll wants.

Why are you distancing yourself? You rigged the poll. It's what you want, not what the poll wants. The poll didn't slant itself toward removal by promising new content only in the result of felinid removal, that was you who did that.
Last edited by afelinidisfinetoo on Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Farquaar » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:06 am #453436

So catpeople are essentially going to be like rare promotional hats in TF2?
I do not disapprove of this.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:14 am #453442

CosmicScientist wrote:
oranges wrote:configuration items, like all configuration items, can be freely changed by developers cosmic, you only need a text editor

It was hard enough to find the undocumented felinid config option in the first place, you're just increasing the number of jumping hoops to fix bugs and the number of times you or someone else needs to be online to answer questions.

I know you have brain damage from exposure to the DMCA playerbase, but there's nothing that says it's the default config option, which means developers won't even notice.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby confused rock » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:34 am #453444

I thought this sounded pretty dumb at first but I can see how this kind of makes sense, it does everything it needs to in that it makes everyone as angry as possible, and if the goal is to have cat players slowly "move on" then I can see how that would work as well. Catgirls were first enabled on basil as an incentive to use that server anyways, so removing it as as an incentive makes sense now that basil definitely does not need it.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:54 am #453459

we're not coding for the downstreams

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:47 am #453465

I don't understand your point because it was pretty incomprehensible.

We're adding this config option for this server, not the downstreams, it will be enabled live, but there's no reason to have it as the default option for developers, if downstreams don't want the config they don't need it to set it.

Thanks for assigning me my view point though, I'll make sure to abide by your view of my view in the future.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby iamgoofball » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:14 am #453472

oranges wrote:2) a new config option is added that prevents people selecting the felinid species in the character setup screen, but does not prevent existing characters


so what you're saying is this was a huge fucking waste of everyone's time and you gave in and took the admin dick directly up your asshole?

I thought you were going to have a backbone, but I guess not. This config will not change anything, this is the effectiveness level of a UN sternly worded letter.
this is the Assault Weapons Ban equivalent because of the amount of loopholing and grandfathering this allows
1. this doesn't prevent people from using the race, it literally keeps it in not only as now a extra "i was here for X" badge, but also allows people to metagame if someone really is X based on whether they have Y roundstart
2. this doesn't prevent admins from force giving people the race when they ahelp, as they did last time cats were disabled
3. this leaves us with snowflake table/laser pointer species-based behavior in the code
4. this does nothing about the actual fucking issue oranges did you just decide to waste everyone's fucking time holy shit i know you're not this retarded, you're either lying about how this came about or you're not being fucking transparent enough


i just realized the 20th dimensional roblox, carry on as usual

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:39 am #453476

I guess it could be an attempt to embitter the playerbase against felinids by making then a race nobody besides a few can play, so the next vote can be won without rigging it like this one.

But I think it's more likely that he really just thought "Hm... if I just do this... then it will have the least consequences for me"

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Ziiro » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:12 am #453488

tfw your fetish toaster race didn't win

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Arianya » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:23 am #453508

Shadowflame909 wrote:So you mean, cat girls stay. But there are no more cat-girls. And if the previous cat-girls accidentally goof up and change there race from cat-girl. They cannot be a cat-girl anymore.

Huh, cat-girls are a rare and endangered race now. Nice


We'll reasonably re-allow people to the catgirl race where they didn't intend to "revoke" their rights. That said, we have multiple slots for you to save in, so I'd advise using an alternative slot if you want to play as a non-cat for a round. Giving catpeople access flagrantly (for example, to someone who clearly never had access to it, such as having joined the community after the cutoff) would be config subversion.

If for some reason in the next 12 months something horribly breaks saves in some wide way that affects a lot of people/everyone we'll most likely look to disable the config for a week or so to allow people to recreate their characters, but hopefully that shouldn't come up.

Also we've had 3 different threads devolve into dumpster fires of arguing about personal stakes. I don't care which side of this argument you're on, but keep things civil and topic focused in here. Any posts that are solely designed to attack another user or incite a flame war will be deleted.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:35 am #453510

One potential future I can see is future head admins reverting the change and allowing Catpeople back as a round start race, as there is no assurance in the agreement noted that puts a timer on that.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Screemonster » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:12 pm #453514

so basically the outcome is "spay and neuter your cats"


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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:34 pm #453522

A true /tg/ server would know that as long as there are 2 cats, you'll never get rid of them.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:09 pm #453539

I do kinda feel that this is not achieving much since Catpeople will remain in the game indefinitely.

I'd much rather just get a definitive answer of either gutting Catpeople utterly or keeping them in forever. Instead of a limbo state that changes nothing for the most part.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby RobustAndRun » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:32 pm #453557

Now we just make the game unplayable for the catneckbeards. Make sure silicons are always aware that they arent human. Flashbacks everywhere. Security sets all catvirgins to strest for "weapon posesion"

If we can't throw em out on the street, we suffocate then in a small room

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby iamgoofball » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:45 pm #453567

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:I guess it could be an attempt to embitter the playerbase against felinids by making then a race nobody besides a few can play, so the next vote can be won without rigging it like this one.

But I think it's more likely that he really just thought "Hm... if I just do this... then it will have the least consequences for me"

No, seriously, I don't understand why you're allowed to soapbox from an alternate account, in a situation where if I tried exactly what you're doing right now I'd get run the fuck out by the admins. It'd be nice if they didn't hold double-standards here, but the administration has repeatedly proven itself to be biased as fuck.

Hell, I might just do it just to prove a point. Soon as the admins figure out what my alt is they'll ban it and tell me to use my main, despite the fact they'll never do the same to you.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:55 pm #453570

iamgoofball wrote:...

I genuinely am not an alt. I don't know what else I can say on the matter. Also, it would not change what I'm saying if I was an alt.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Arianya » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:59 pm #453572

iamgoofball wrote:
afelinidisfinetoo wrote:I guess it could be an attempt to embitter the playerbase against felinids by making then a race nobody besides a few can play, so the next vote can be won without rigging it like this one.

But I think it's more likely that he really just thought "Hm... if I just do this... then it will have the least consequences for me"

No, seriously, I don't understand why you're allowed to soapbox from an alternate account, in a situation where if I tried exactly what you're doing right now I'd get run the fuck out by the admins. It'd be nice if they didn't hold double-standards here, but the administration has repeatedly proven itself to be biased as fuck.

Hell, I might just do it just to prove a point. Soon as the admins figure out what my alt is they'll ban it and tell me to use my main, despite the fact they'll never do the same to you.


There is no known alt account of this person, and at this point your obsession with believing them to be one person or another isn't helping you or your point. Attack the arguments, instead of getting bent out of shape about the person behind them, whoever they might be.

Realistically I should delete this post because you are once again veering off topic but in a futile endeavour to make you realize that this isn't some ~admin conspiracy~ I will try convincing you of the actual point.

If you made an alt account and broke the rules on that alt account you would be punished on both that alt account and your main one, same as the other user would be. You're literally grasping at straws.

Don't bother responding, any further posts on this particular point will just be deleted.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby obscolene » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:09 pm #453575

post yfw removal wins but they don't get removed at all because all 3 headmins are too caught up in their own personal bias to make the correct decision based on a playerbase poll and instead choose to continue to stand their ground on the subject

Remember when removal won the first (binary yes/no) poll so the the headmins said "Umm Actually W'ere Just Gonna Disable Them Config-Wise On The LOWPOP Server Teehee Now You Don't Have To Remove Them sweats profusely" and then Ned announced he fucked up the filter and that removal didn't win so the headmins immediately backtracked and re-enabled them on config -- literally stating that if removal wins then they get DISABLED on the LOWPOP server but if keeping them wins then nothing fucking happens. disabling wasn't a compromise, it was shitty damage control.

Remember when oranges agreed to have a new poll be made BEFORE it was revealed that the filter was wrong, then cat players proceeded to claim that he wanted a re-vote because he lost -- and continued to make up countless amounts of bullshit about how he's rigging the vote and 'making all kinds of filters to make sure removal wins??'

Remember when removal won in the new poll, with the wording of it completely approved by the headmins -- but the cat players still bitched about it? Well, it doesn't matter at all. Because the inept headmins, as per their previous actions would prompt you to predict, chose to continue to stand their ground and push for """compromise""" -- by compromise, I mean a shitty and completely-biased '''solution''' that does nothing at all for the winning side. Why even bother making a poll if you aren't going to follow through with it, ever? Instead of hiding your shitty actions behind a veil of "compromising," why don't you just blatantly go out and say it. Say you don't care about the wills of the majority unless it is your own and that you won't make a poll. It's that easy. But, I guess, through a combination of both ego and arrogance you chose to go through with making another poll that you aren't going to bother listening to anyways.

This is honestly just sad. I had high hopes for this round of headmins but was met with nothing but disappointment.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Bawhoppennn » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:17 pm #453579

In all seriousness, this is an extremely good compromise. Few situations in life lead to deals as perfect as this.
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ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.

PostThis post was deleted by Arianya on Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:47 pm.
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PostThis post was deleted by Arianya on Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:47 pm.
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PostThis post was deleted by Arianya on Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:47 pm.
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Munchlax
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:25 am
Byond Username: Lobstercake

Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Munchlax » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:12 pm #453603

When are we getting dogpeople

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confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby confused rock » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:28 pm #453616

Yeah this is a really 4d compromise, I was legitimately confused and thinking "why don't we just make sybil the ethereal server or something" until I realised this is similar to using nicotine patches to reduce withdrawal symptoms, or it's far more similar to this example that I swear I have somewhere in my brain but I don't remember. Grandfathered in cats is a bit awkward, but things like movespeed are already awkward in this bloated game so it shouldn't be too confusing.
time to do generic shitstorm arguing:
Let's say all 3 headmins are huge turbocat erpers (which they could unban). Let's say that. if that was the case, they could tell us to fuck off. These are the headmins. If the majority hate catgirls, then we shouldn't have voted for ariaNYA. I can see why people could whine about oranges, but the headmins can totally do this. I got the impression that the reason cats were reenabled on sybil was because a new vote was being held and all decisions should be held off until after it. And of course felinid isn't an alt, they'd definitely be banned. They're simply a player of another server too ashamed to use their real account, so just disregard them.
Let's start arguing about issues that actually matter.
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Ayy Lemoh
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:58 pm
Byond Username: Jerry Derpington

Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:43 pm #453643

Why couldn't we keep the FELINID RACE as a catperson mutation again? It worked fine before.

Don't we already have code where health analyzers say your race is different or some shit if you're a hulk/catperson/mutant?

Like there's no need to go 'if you want the ethereals or the IPCs then we'll have to remove the catfucks' if all you did was just revert catpeople back to a mutation instead of their snowflake race.

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confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby confused rock » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:46 pm #453645

in what way would that change things?
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Ayy Lemoh
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:58 pm
Byond Username: Jerry Derpington

Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:50 pm #453649

confused rock wrote:in what way would that change things?

"JAMES, THE ROUNDSTART RACE LIST IS TOO FULL. THERE CAN ONLY BE A MAXINUM OF 1 RACE WHICH IS THE SUPERIOR FLYPE-"
"oh fuck nuggets you're right, jimmy, what can we do?"
"REMEMBER HOW WE MADE CATPEOPLE INTO THEIR OWN RACE INSTEAD OF A MUTATION TWO MINUTES AGO?"
"yeah?"
"PURGE IT FROM THE GAME FOREVER"

If the roundstart race list being too full is our main argument then literally just make it back into a mutation instead of this bullshit where if you wanna play as the xcom ethereal then you'll have to piss quite a few people off first by purging catpeople so you can secure the epic deal.

If we won't make hulks into their own race then why the fuck did we make catpeople into their own race?

Qustinnus
 
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:30 am
Byond Username: Qustinnus

Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Qustinnus » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:55 pm #453653

the funniest part of this is that I have already had people tell me they'll grief while playing as ethereal to get them removed like catgirls.

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