Results of the felinid vote

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby subject217 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:20 pm #453678

Hello Reddit!

actually a serious post: when one choice wins by a relatively slim margin, going "all the way" with it will piss off far more people than a compromise, all you delusional redditoids were never going to get anything better than this really
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Screemonster » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:24 pm #453679

Qustinnus wrote:the funniest part of this is that I have already had people tell me they'll grief while playing as ethereal to get them removed like catgirls.

didn't you know that if they don't like something nobody else is allowed to either

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:25 pm #453680

Screemonster wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:the funniest part of this is that I have already had people tell me they'll grief while playing as ethereal to get them removed like catgirls.

didn't you know that if they don't like something nobody else is allowed to either

same applies to catpeople in this instance.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:45 pm #453684

subject217 wrote:Hello Reddit!

actually a serious post: when one choice wins by a relatively slim margin, going "all the way" with it will piss off far more people than a compromise, all you delusional redditoids were never going to get anything better than this really

That's right, you have to make everyone unhappy. That's why when the presidential candidate wins with a 51% majority they only make him kinda-president.
Also, on the ballot, the options look like this:

1) Elect George
2) Elect Bob
3) Elect Jim and you get a new car (only guaranteed if you elect Jim though)

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby somerandomguy » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:41 pm #453699

CosmicScientist wrote:This isn't the American presidential system last I checked.

I assume you're not going to be satisfied until someone other than oranges who signed off on the vote's options explains why those went ahead, given that PKP's answer of shit happens wasn't satisfactory.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby subject217 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:44 pm #453715

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
subject217 wrote:Hello Reddit!

actually a serious post: when one choice wins by a relatively slim margin, going "all the way" with it will piss off far more people than a compromise, all you delusional redditoids were never going to get anything better than this really

That's right, you have to make everyone unhappy. That's why when the presidential candidate wins with a 51% majority they only make him kinda-president.
Also, on the ballot, the options look like this:

1) Elect George
2) Elect Bob
3) Elect Jim and you get a new car (only guaranteed if you elect Jim though)


I've heard all this before and said it several times. Project your butthurt onto someone else, please.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby BeeSting12 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:51 pm #453722

This is a good compromise. It's a very slim margin, last vote was in favor of catgirls by only a couple votes and this one was in favor of replacement with ethereals by only 20 points. I'd imagine we'd get differing results if we kept doing the poll. We'd make half the server mad no matter what we do, this is the compromise that keeps the most people happy.

I doubt most of the removal crowd is as obsessed about it as the people on the forums, same for the keep crowd. Waiting another year isn't hurting anything and it allows those with investment in their characters to keep those characters until a final vote decides their fate.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:20 am #453733

To be honest I feel that if a cat accidentally deletes their cat character, admins shouldn't allow them to create a new one. It adds on to the danger and rarity of the cats, and actually achieves the compromise.

This point in mind, if some wacky bug fucks the code and disables all cats, admins definitely shouldn't just blanket remove the config so everyone can go ahead and make a cat player. Checking account age should be a must, if not a list of active cat players being made atm.

So basically can we get some policies put into place considering this (specifically for admins)? Because the way I see it, its gonna be easy as fuck to bypass this compromise.

uh oh opinion time: Fellow cat haters, at first I opposed this result. At first, it seemed like a shitty "solution" that somehow manages to directly defy the vote result and it was labeled a compromise. But think about this gamers: cats are gonna go extinct. This is basically the first step to curing pollution: we've reduced pollution. Cat players will no longer be attracted to /tg/, and one by one, our current cats will die off or get banned. In 5 years, /tg/ is gonna be a beautiful place.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Arianya » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:38 am #453738

wesoda25 wrote:To be honest I feel that if a cat accidentally deletes their cat character, admins shouldn't allow them to create a new one. It adds on to the danger and rarity of the cats, and actually achieves the compromise.


No.

This point in mind, if some wacky bug fucks the code and disables all cats, admins definitely shouldn't just blanket remove the config so everyone can go ahead and make a cat player. Checking account age should be a must, if not a list of active cat players being made atm.


This would be a unreasonable burden of work to put on administrators, and its relatively unlikely to happen anyway. It's just a sanity clause so that people don't lose their mind 9 months from now should it happen.

So basically can we get some policies put into place considering this (specifically for admins)? Because the way I see it, its gonna be easy as fuck to bypass this compromise.


There are already policies in place. Please refer to my earlier post in this thread.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby UltimateGamer21 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:41 am #453739

wesoda25 wrote:To be honest I feel that if a cat accidentally deletes their cat character, admins shouldn't allow them to create a new one. It adds on to the danger and rarity of the cats, and actually achieves the compromise.

This point in mind, if some wacky bug fucks the code and disables all cats, admins definitely shouldn't just blanket remove the config so everyone can go ahead and make a cat player. Checking account age should be a must, if not a list of active cat players being made atm.

So basically can we get some policies put into place considering this (specifically for admins)? Because the way I see it, its gonna be easy as fuck to bypass this compromise.

uh oh opinion time: Fellow cat haters, at first I opposed this result. At first, it seemed like a shitty "solution" that somehow manages to directly defy the vote result and it was labeled a compromise. But think about this gamers: cats are gonna go extinct. This is basically the first step to curing pollution: we've reduced pollution. Cat players will no longer be attracted to /tg/, and one by one, our current cats will die off or get banned. In 5 years, /tg/ is gonna be a beautiful place.

It's really badass how all of your posts read like parody but are actually real
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby UltimateGamer21 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:43 am #453741

I wish the felinid is fine too guy made more funny posts about the mutilated penises of the collective American population and spent less time barking up the oranges tree
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby UltimateGamer21 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:44 am #453742

I can not wait for Wesoda25's utopia /tg/station where cat ears is our own Roko's basilisk and if you type nyaa into the chatbox anyone that reads it just dies of brain failure
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 am #453751

Arianya wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:To be honest I feel that if a cat accidentally deletes their cat character, admins shouldn't allow them to create a new one. It adds on to the danger and rarity of the cats, and actually achieves the compromise.


No.

Yes.
Arianya wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:This point in mind, if some wacky bug fucks the code and disables all cats, admins definitely shouldn't just blanket remove the config so everyone can go ahead and make a cat player. Checking account age should be a must, if not a list of active cat players being made atm.

This would be a unreasonable burden of work to put on administrators, and its relatively unlikely to happen anyway. It's just a sanity clause so that people don't lose their mind 9 months from now should it happen.

Yeah but in a way that turns it into a game of: "who can slip a bug past maintainers to fuck with character setup?". And yeah, it would take some work. I feel that's warranted, considering how different your solution is than what the majority of people voted for in the poll.

Arianya wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:So basically can we get some policies put into place considering this (specifically for admins)? Because the way I see it, its gonna be easy as fuck to bypass this compromise.


There are already policies in place. Please refer to my earlier post in this thread.

You never mentioned purgatory, ahelp/prayers for cat, etc. And what happens to admins who bypass this? Is it like nabski complaint severity or sawrge demotion severity?

UltimateGamer21 wrote:I can not wait for Wesoda25's utopia /tg/station where cat ears is our own Roko's basilisk and if you type nyaa into the chatbox anyone that reads it just dies of brain failure

Oh nooooooooooooooooooo guys ultimategamer21 dislikes my post!! Thank God admins won't delete your posts since they add so much to the conversation (yay this part of my post is protected too!!).
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby UltimateGamer21 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:11 am #453752

I liked it a lot actually it made me chuckle
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Qbmax32 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:20 am #453757

ultimategamer21 is the best gamer i have ever met do not insult them they are very funny and cool
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:24 am #453759

how does swarge keep his accounts organised?

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Shadowflame909 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:26 am #453762

oranges wrote:how does swarge keep his accounts organised?


Whilst oranges defended themselves from the torrent of hate, thy survived till a new day by rolling a 15 and being able to successfully cast magic missile in the same turn.

Has anyone asked? How are they? How do they feel about all this unwarranted hate towards them? Will they ever look back on this situation and go "Yeah that happened?" Or shall it just be another thing of the past that everyone instantly forgets?

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby UltimateGamer21 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:30 am #453764

Shadowflame909 wrote:
oranges wrote:how does swarge keep his accounts organised?


Whilst oranges defended themselves from the torrent of hate, thy survived till a new day by rolling a 15 and being able to successfully cast magic missile in the same turn.

Has anyone asked? How are they? How do they feel about all this unwarranted hate towards them? Will they ever look back on this situation and go "Yeah that happened?" Or shall it just be another thing of the past that everyone instantly forgets?

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:39 am #453770

wesoda25 wrote:To be honest I feel that if a cat accidentally deletes their cat character, admins shouldn't allow them to create a new one. It adds on to the danger and rarity of the cats, and actually achieves the compromise.

People accidently click on the wrong thing or do something they didn't want to do? Who does that? I haven't clicked on anything I didn't want to click since the second day youtube was open. I've also never heard of anyone who makes a mistake while drunk either.

There are uncommon scenarios, such as being being unable to play as a catperson because you had catpeople mutations but not the felinid race, or rare case scenarios, like a hacker or admeme punishment, where it will fuck up the ability to be a catperson as well.

Do you really care this much about catpeople that you would be willing to go ATTENTION ALL FAGOLAS, CUCKS, AND LIGGERS! IF YOU FUCK UP EVEN ONCE THEN YOUR ASS WILL BE BLASTED FOREVER AS YOU WILL FUCKING NEVER BE WHAT YOU LIKE AGAIN. MARK MY FUCKING WORDS.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby yred » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:45 am #453772

Seemed to me that the main complaint about the vote before last was the wording (remove player option to pick cat thing vs the PR's removing them from adminspawn too). If that's the case, the most recent vote should have not included "no change" at all, since that option already lost. But since it got in for some reason, hard to say that the IPC/Ether thing is rigging when cat already got two chances.

But having to compromise for what's already a compromise is pretty strange.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby confused rock » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:58 am #453780

no change won the last vote.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Shadowflame909 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:34 am #453785

confused rock wrote:no change won the last vote.


Wrong. One change won the last vote, albeit like a snail that may not even get to its food source depending on what the human at that point in time, wants the snail to reach its food.

So basically cat-girls stay and no more cat-girls will be made. But in a year or so if the new headmin wants more cat-girls. This vote will be nulled.

This is a firm draw with a slight advantage. Lol

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby somerandomguy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:58 am #453790

Shadowflame909 wrote:
confused rock wrote:no change won the last vote.


Wrong. One change won the last vote, albeit like a snail that may not even get to its food source depending on what the human at that point in time, wants the snail to reach its food.

So basically cat-girls stay and no more cat-girls will be made. But in a year or so if the new headmin wants more cat-girls. This vote will be nulled.

This is a firm draw with a slight advantage. Lol

Makes sense seeing as that was the original vote result

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby obscolene » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:15 am #453799

I like how when catpeople win by 6 votes, there is no compromise whatsoever. But when removal wins by 60 votes, catpeople don't even fucking get removed. I'm still waiting for the headmins to admit they're biased assholes who have nobody's will in mind but their own. What a fucking embarrassment.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Shadowflame909 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:17 am #453800

obscolene wrote:I like how when catpeople win by 6 votes, there is no compromise whatsoever. But when removal wins by 60 votes, catpeople don't even fucking get removed. I'm still waiting for the headmins to admit they're biased assholes who have nobody's will in mind but their own. What a fucking embarrassment.


Klara Ellstrom the catgirl mascot is anti-catgirl. Who would of expected this

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:30 am #453802

As much as I dislike Catpeople, even I can see that this deal is a fair compromise.

We could have a hundred more polls, and every poll would fall with either a few dozen votes over the line for removing catpeople, or a few dozen votes for keeping them.

As much as I would rather the administration just pick to either permanently keep Catpeople or permanently remove them to solve the issue for all coming time, the fact is that pointing to the latest poll and saying 'X' got a few more votes than 'Y' so we must now gut/keep catpeople forever, would invariably just piss half the playerbase off and lead to more drama.

While logically I'd argue to just get rid of Catpeople since they've been nothing but a contentious source of fucking drama and the biggest shitshow /tg/station has ever seen, but that's my admittedly biased opinion.

Perhaps in 6 months to a year down the line the attitudes of the server will have sufficiently changed that we can make a final decision to remove or keep them.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby confused rock » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:40 am #453804

Shadowflame909 wrote:
confused rock wrote:no change won the last vote.


Wrong. One change won the last vote, albeit like a snail that may not even get to its food source depending on what the human at that point in time, wants the snail to reach its food.

So basically cat-girls stay and no more cat-girls will be made. But in a year or so if the new headmin wants more cat-girls. This vote will be nulled.

This is a firm draw with a slight advantage. Lol

Go wrong yourself, the filter was off and catgirl won by like 3 votes.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Shadowflame909 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:44 am #453805

confused rock wrote:
Shadowflame909 wrote:
confused rock wrote:no change won the last vote.


Wrong. One change won the last vote, albeit like a snail that may not even get to its food source depending on what the human at that point in time, wants the snail to reach its food.

So basically cat-girls stay and no more cat-girls will be made. But in a year or so if the new headmin wants more cat-girls. This vote will be nulled.

This is a firm draw with a slight advantage. Lol

Go wrong yourself, the filter was off and catgirl won by like 3 votes.


This is a firm draw with a slight advantage. No matter how you slice it.

Either cat-girls will be few and nearly non-existant in 12 months time. Or we'll get a couple pro-cat-girl admins and this entire thing will be rescinded.

It's funny how we have a political system with the main issues being: Pro erp, Anti Erp, Pro-Cat-girl, Anti-Cat-Girl.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


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BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby iamgoofball » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:56 am #453808

obscolene wrote:I like how when catpeople win by 6 votes, there is no compromise whatsoever. But when removal wins by 60 votes, catpeople don't even fucking get removed. I'm still waiting for the headmins to admit they're biased assholes who have nobody's will in mind but their own. What a fucking embarrassment.

I've been saying it for years.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby oranges » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:21 am #453824

Shadowflame909 wrote:
oranges wrote:how does swarge keep his accounts organised?


Whilst oranges defended themselves from the torrent of hate, thy survived till a new day by rolling a 15 and being able to successfully cast magic missile in the same turn.

Has anyone asked? How are they? How do they feel about all this unwarranted hate towards them? Will they ever look back on this situation and go "Yeah that happened?" Or shall it just be another thing of the past that everyone instantly forgets?

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Arianya » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:51 am #453829

wesoda25 wrote:Yes.


Thanks for your view, but at this time this is what the headmins have decided upon.

wesoda25 wrote:Yeah but in a way that turns it into a game of: "who can slip a bug past maintainers to fuck with character setup?". And yeah, it would take some work. I feel that's warranted, considering how different your solution is than what the majority of people voted for in the poll.


And if it were the other way it would still be a game of "who can slip a bug past maintainers to fuck with character setup?". As I've said, its pretty unlikely it'll come up in the 12 months, since generally anything that touches saves is pretty heavily scrutinized, but on the off chance it does the disabling of the config for a relatively short period would mitigate the immediate issue without making a complete shitfuck of work for admins, because at the end of the day the admins don't have to do the work if they don't want to, they're volunteers, and if they told me to go stick my busywork solution up my ass then they'd be within their rights.

wesoda25 wrote:You never mentioned purgatory, ahelp/prayers for cat, etc. And what happens to admins who bypass this? Is it like nabski complaint severity or sawrge demotion severity?


I presume by purgatory you meant purrbation. These particular facets haven't been discussed yet, but an admin making a felinid for an event has been and its fine, since its a one round thing. Bypassing the config is taken very seriously and would be a bad time for any admin, in either direction.

I like how when catpeople win by 6 votes, there is no compromise whatsoever. But when removal wins by 60 votes, catpeople don't even fucking get removed. I'm still waiting for the headmins to admit they're biased assholes who have nobody's will in mind but their own. What a fucking embarrassment.


The revelation regarding the mistaken filter came after a course of action had already been decided upon, and regardless it didn't change things severely in my view (the fact was the vote was a 50/50 split, and I dislike the simple majority thinking that suggests that 50.0001% should dictate to the 49.9999%). A compromise was suggested before the new vote was decided upon (disabled on one server, enabled on the other two), which I appreciate some people didn't like, but was still an attempt at compromise.

I think the issue a lot of people get into with this argument is that they seem to think the only stances are "pro-catgirl" or "anti-catgirl" (and I can't even tell which side you think we're "biased" towards), but the fact is I'm not headmin for either side. I'm a headmin for /tg/, which means I have to try and find solutions that make the server fun and engaging for the server's players in general, not one particular lobby. To claim we have no one's will in mind but our own is incredibly insulting, considering we spend huge amounts of our time arguing how things will affect players, administrators, code maintainers and so on and so forth.

I don't expect you to actually change your mind after reading this, it's clear that in your mind we are tainted, but you should at least be aware of how wrong the things you say are.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Shadowflame909 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:10 am #453830

I think the issue a lot of people get into with this argument is that they seem to think the only stances are "pro-catgirl" or "anti-catgirl" (and I can't even tell which side you think we're "biased" towards), but the fact is I'm not headmin for either side. I'm a headmin for /tg/, which means I have to try and find solutions that make the server fun and engaging for the server's players in general, not one particular lobby. To claim we have no one's will in mind but our own is incredibly insulting, considering we spend huge amounts of our time arguing how things will affect players, administrators, code maintainers and so on and so forth.



Much emphasis on this. You'd have to be stupid to alienate a big chunk of your player base and make them go away. As I guess a section of /tg/ station only plays to be cat-girls.

Me personally, I'd of made there be no chance to get your rare and special cat-girl race back after you've lost it. It'd be a sort of special badge to flaunt if you will. make the last cat-girl players feel happy and more inclined to play once they start to disappear. As they'd be the only ones of there kind. And since there'd be no way to get them back once whatever happens. They'd be erased much faster being honest.

But, even that isn't realistic. As we'll just have another head-admin vote and be at the whims of whatever they decide about cat-girls. Maybe they think they should be a playable race again. Who knows what the future holds.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby obscolene » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:00 pm #453853

Arianya wrote:I'm not headmin for either side. I'm a headmin for /tg/

Alright, guys, pack it up. One of the headmins themselves said that the headmins are not biased.
Arianya wrote:To claim we have no one's will in mind but our own is incredibly insulting, considering we spend huge amounts of our time arguing how things will affect players, administrators, code maintainers and so on and so forth.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:54 pm #453870

obscolene wrote:I like how when catpeople win by 6 votes, there is no compromise whatsoever. But when removal wins by 60 votes, catpeople don't even fucking get removed. I'm still waiting for the headmins to admit they're biased assholes who have nobody's will in mind but their own. What a fucking embarrassment.


Catgirls lost by less than 20 votes, not 60. They lost by about 80 "points", because that's how an IRV poll works... everyone's vote counts for x amount of points.
They also lost by less than 20 votes in a poll that was rigged for them to lose. If you remove the etherals bribery option they would have won in a landslide, according to the results.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby somerandomguy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:07 pm #453873

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
obscolene wrote:I like how when catpeople win by 6 votes, there is no compromise whatsoever. But when removal wins by 60 votes, catpeople don't even fucking get removed. I'm still waiting for the headmins to admit they're biased assholes who have nobody's will in mind but their own. What a fucking embarrassment.


Catgirls lost by less than 20 votes, not 60. They lost by about 80 "points", because that's how an IRV poll works... everyone's vote counts for x amount of points.
They also lost by less than 20 votes in a poll that was rigged for them to lose. If you remove the etherals bribery option they would have won in a landslide, according to the results.

Nope, that would just remove EVERYONE that voted for ethereals as first pick from the vote COMPLETELY. Of course cats would win in a landslide if their opponents are removed. What you would need to do is re-do the results without the ethereal option, which you need the data to do

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby NoxVS » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:14 pm #453875

somerandomguy wrote:
afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
obscolene wrote:I like how when catpeople win by 6 votes, there is no compromise whatsoever. But when removal wins by 60 votes, catpeople don't even fucking get removed. I'm still waiting for the headmins to admit they're biased assholes who have nobody's will in mind but their own. What a fucking embarrassment.


Catgirls lost by less than 20 votes, not 60. They lost by about 80 "points", because that's how an IRV poll works... everyone's vote counts for x amount of points.
They also lost by less than 20 votes in a poll that was rigged for them to lose. If you remove the etherals bribery option they would have won in a landslide, according to the results.

Nope, that would just remove EVERYONE that voted for ethereals as first pick from the vote COMPLETELY. Of course cats would win in a landslide if their opponents are removed. What you would need to do is re-do the results without the ethereal option, which you need the data to do

I’m pretty sure MSO could show the results if IPC and ethereal weren’t ever vote options

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby actioninja » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:16 pm #453877

Can you get off this rigging bullshit already? It was funny to start but now it's just pathetic when cats got such a favorable compromise.
In terms of the actual compromise, I can't say I'm too happy with it but I also think it's probably the least inflammatory move to make. Which, while less juicy and popcorn worthy, is probably the smarter choice to make. It was a mistake to ever add them but now that they're here we're now stuck with complicated political drama over ears and a tail.
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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:22 pm #453878

actioninja wrote:Can you get off this rigging bullshit already? It was funny to start but now it's just pathetic when cats got such a favorable compromise.

Your subjective judgement of the compromise does not change that the poll was factually rigged and nothing should have been done based on the tainted results.

By the way, you can't actually "fix" the poll by removing the "Remove felinids and I add <x> enticing race" bribery options, regardless of who is doing it, because you have no way of telling how those removed votes would have voted if that option had not existed. The poll is irreversibly tainted.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby somerandomguy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:37 pm #453881

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
actioninja wrote:Can you get off this rigging bullshit already? It was funny to start but now it's just pathetic when cats got such a favorable compromise.

Your subjective judgement of the compromise does not change that the poll was factually rigged and nothing should have been done based on the tainted results.

By the way, you can't actually "fix" the poll by removing the "Remove felinids and I add <x> enticing race" bribery options, regardless of who is doing it, because you have no way of telling how those removed votes would have voted if that option had not existed. The poll is irreversibly tainted.

t. has no idea how IRV works
You already vote on ALL of them so it's easy to see what it would be without it IF you have the dataset (which only some people have)

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:49 pm #453884

somerandomguy wrote:You already vote on ALL of them so it's easy to see what it would be without it IF you have the dataset (which only some people have)


This doesn't fix the vote, and you can see what it would be without the data, which is a felinid win.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby NoxVS » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:05 pm #453890

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
somerandomguy wrote:You already vote on ALL of them so it's easy to see what it would be without it IF you have the dataset (which only some people have)


This doesn't fix the vote, and you can see what it would be without the data, which is a felinid win.

Ok. Let me explain this to you. With IRV polls you order your choices from favorite option to least favorite. If your favorite choice is eliminated it goes to your next favorite available choice. This means that if you have all the data you could simply remove any options you don’t want and see what the results would have been. This means the vote is not irreversibly tainted.

Let’s say you have someone who “accepted the bribe” and voted for remove cats add ethereals. Their second favorite choice was to keep cats. If you remove the choices you don’t want (IPC and ethereal) then it becomes a vote on whether you want cats, want them to be adminspawn only, or want to remove catss entirely

Also, any proof to back up your claim that this would have been a felinid win?

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:14 pm #453892

NoxVS wrote:...


It isn't this simple, because people don't only rank their choices from favorite option to least favorite, there are also "observer bias"-like elements involved. In the other thread someone was talking about how they put etherals in the #1 place, even though they do not want etherals added, because they knew it was the best chance to get felinids removed.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby Qustinnus » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:18 pm #453894

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
somerandomguy wrote:You already vote on ALL of them so it's easy to see what it would be without it IF you have the dataset (which only some people have)


This doesn't fix the vote, and you can see what it would be without the data, which is a felinid win.

i genuinely can't take you serious until you stop hiding behind that dumb username.

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
NoxVS wrote:...


It isn't this simple, because people don't only rank their choices from favorite option to least favorite, there are also "observer bias"-like elements involved. In the other thread someone was talking about how they put etherals in the #1 place, even though they do not want etherals added, because they knew it was the best chance to get felinids removed.


also can you fucking grasp how IRV works already or what

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby somerandomguy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:33 pm #453901

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
NoxVS wrote:...


It isn't this simple, because people don't only rank their choices from favorite option to least favorite, there are also "observer bias"-like elements involved. In the other thread someone was talking about how they put etherals in the #1 place, even though they do not want etherals added, because they knew it was the best chance to get felinids removed.

>observer bias
Good one
Also they're wrong too, seeing how IRV works

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby NoxVS » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:34 pm #453902

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
NoxVS wrote:...


It isn't this simple, because people don't only rank their choices from favorite option to least favorite, there are also "observer bias"-like elements involved. In the other thread someone was talking about how they put etherals in the #1 place, even though they do not want etherals added, because they knew it was the best chance to get felinids removed.

The poll had you order your options from favorite to least favorite. It’s not the polls fault that people are too stupid to understand how to order choices depending on how much you like or dislike the option.

Here’s how the poll worked. The option with the least votes gets eliminated. The votes then go towards the second option all the voters chose. So if you manually remove the “bribe options put in place by the evil oranges to taint the vote” then all the people who voted for it instead have it go to their second or third options. Meaning it’s a vote solely on if you want cats, don’t want them, or want them to be admin spawn only.

So let’s say you want cats but you wanted ethereals more so you voted to remove cats and add ethereals. Since you had keep cats as your second option your vote would go towards keeping cats if the ethereal vote is eliminated. And if you voted ethereal but mainly just wanted cats gone, your vote goes to removing cats.

Meaning the vote isn’t tainted. Because you can remove the ethereal and IPC options. And see what they would have voted for if those options hadn’t existed. This is of course assuming it’s possible to look at the data and do this which I think is possible but I am not entirely sure.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:52 pm #453903

NoxVS wrote: It’s not the polls fault that people are too stupid to understand how to order choices depending on how much you like or dislike the option.

It actually is the poll's fault (I mean it's not the weather's fault and you could construct a poll that would be immune to this issue) but anyway, fault is irrelevant and it's a reality that it did happen that way

It is likely that the poll is less tainted than if it was a non-IRV poll but it's still (more subtly) tainted

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:08 pm #453904

I feel like it's not obvious what I'm talking about so let me be more clear
Here’s how the poll worked. The option with the least votes gets eliminated. The votes then go towards the second option all the voters chose. So if you manually remove the “bribe options put in place by the evil oranges to taint the vote” then all the people who voted for it instead have it go to their second or third options. Meaning it’s a vote solely on if you want cats, don’t want them, or want them to be admin spawn only.


This is all right, but what you aren't seeing is that when you erase those tainted options from the poll, it does not change that the voters saw them and that they influenced their voting decisions (often in unpredictable ways, like the case I mentioned above)

You really cannot totally remove the bias without a new poll
Last edited by afelinidisfinetoo on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby NoxVS » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:09 pm #453905

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
NoxVS wrote: It’s not the polls fault that people are too stupid to understand how to order choices depending on how much you like or dislike the option.

It It is likely that the poll is less tainted than if it was a non-IRV poll but it's still (more subtly) tainted

How would it be tainted. It would literally be a yes/no at that point. How do you taint “do you want cats? yes or no”

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby afelinidisfinetoo » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:11 pm #453906

NoxVS wrote:
afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
NoxVS wrote: It’s not the polls fault that people are too stupid to understand how to order choices depending on how much you like or dislike the option.

It It is likely that the poll is less tainted than if it was a non-IRV poll but it's still (more subtly) tainted

How would it be tainted. It would literally be a yes/no at that point. How do you taint “do you want cats? yes or no”


Because it's a "yes/no" containing votes that were affected by the presence of now-removed options, since people are not obligated to follow the "Order options from most liked to least liked" instructions of an IRV poll

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Re: Results of the felinid vote

Postby NoxVS » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:08 pm #453911

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
NoxVS wrote:
afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
NoxVS wrote: It’s not the polls fault that people are too stupid to understand how to order choices depending on how much you like or dislike the option.

It It is likely that the poll is less tainted than if it was a non-IRV poll but it's still (more subtly) tainted

How would it be tainted. It would literally be a yes/no at that point. How do you taint “do you want cats? yes or no”


Because it's a "yes/no" containing votes that were affected by the presence of now-removed options, since people are not obligated to follow the "Order options from most liked to least liked" instructions of an IRV poll

Well those people are morons who can’t follow simple instructions and likely part of a minority who shouldn’t be catered too.

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