/tg/Station 13

by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:34 am #57660

Tedward1337 has been suspended from his administrative duties due to an abuse of privileges he used in an attempt to gain an in-game advantage.

The logs here more or less describes the incident: http://privatepaste.com/322a3cbf49

An0n3 and I have decided to allow the community to decide whether or not Tedward's suspension will be made permanent. If the community is willing to forgive him then he will be re-instated.

EDIT: The poll has been removed as it was misleading some people from the intention of this thread.

This post was deleted by Ikarrus on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:53 am. Top

This post was deleted by Ikarrus on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:53 am.

by **tedward1337** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:53 am #57666

Today I fucked up

From the logs its pretty open shut, and to start, I want to apologize to the community. I made a grave error in this, and have broken trust you may have had in me. The story with this is that the captain made an announcement, and the stamp was key. Or so I thought. After getting the stamp, I wondered around maint a bit more looking for a paper. Lo and behold, I found the paper the captain actually stamped, with two words on the page. "You win". I was called into #conspiracybus near the end of the round to talk with the headmins about this. At face value, I thought it was a stamp, and wouldnt cause much harm. Looking further into it, and talking to the headmins, I have seen that I was gravely mistaken. This does breach the trust the players have with me, and for that I am sorry. I fucked up really hard with this stamp. I screwed up really hard here, and while this does cut deep, this is a mistake I will not make again. It was a momentary lapse in my judgment, and it will not happen again, granted you, the community, know that I am sincerely sorry for my actions and can forgive me for this. I can see how wrong it was to do this. I may get deadmin'd for this, and if that is the choice of the community, I wish to still extend a personal apology to anyone who is upset with me.

Seriously, I fucked up hard and I promise to never use my admin powers in this way if the community decides to keep me around. Thanks for your time.

Edit: Made some small edits, got some talk it wasnt very clear.

by **oranges** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:58 am #57669

Move to trialmin and revaluate at the end of that.

I believe they just need a firm hand to help them.

This post was deleted by Timbrewolf on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:07 am. Top

This post was deleted by Timbrewolf on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:07 am.

by **Vekter** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:34 am #57679

I move to reinstate.

Ted has shown nothing but maturity in how he handles his job. Every one has their weaknesses, and people fuck up, but he very clearly understands his mistake, so I don't see any reason to deadmin he.

by **paprika** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:37 am #57681

Oh my god this should have nothing to do with the community, WE VOTED FOR HEADMINS TO SORT SHIT LIKE THIS OUT

DO YA JOBS

IF THREE OF YOU CAN'T MAKE A DECISION LIKE THIS THEN WHY ARE YOU HEADMINS

by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:42 am #57682

paprika wrote:Oh my god this should have nothing to do with the community, WE VOTED FOR HEADMINS TO SORT SHIT LIKE THIS OUT

DO YA JOBS

IF THREE OF YOU CAN'T MAKE A DECISION LIKE THIS THEN WHY ARE YOU HEADMINS

Because this is a matter of public trust. And I don't feel like I should be speaking for what the community would tolerate in this case.

Tedward has already been deadminned. We're asking everyone if they can trust him to act as an admin again.

by **paprika** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:54 am #57685

oranges wrote:Move to trialmin and revaluate at the end of that.

I believe they just need a firm hand to help them.

In that case, QFT.

by **mrpain** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:55 am #57686

On one hand, we have an abundance of admins now, and can afford to cut the team down.

On the other hand, Ted doesnt have a history of admin shittery at all, and seems pretty helpful in answering ahelps and such, which is a big plus in my book.

I say put him on a "final warning" status, take his FUN access away for a while and put him on trialmin for a bit.

by **highlow** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:59 am #57688

Either deadmin him or trialmin him. I would rather have admins doing round ruining "events" rather than spawning items to gain a personal advantage.

by **Vekter** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:11 am #57692

highlow wrote:Either deadmin him or trialmin him. I would rather have admins doing round ruining "events" rather than spawning items to gain a personal advantage.

Ted does events, though. He doesn't have a history of this kind of thing, which is why I think this is a bit crazy.

by **Sum Ting Wong** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:25 am #57695

From the way Ikarrus worded it I thought he had given himself special admin-only implants or something.

But yeah. Zero tolerance.

by **oranges** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:35 am #57701

Zero tolerance is the worst thing ever. We gave beardbeard 22 chances, I think we can give Tedward one.

edit: I totally forgot to finish my post

by **Sum Ting Wong** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:40 am #57702

That explains so much.

by **mrpain** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:48 am #57704

Now that I think about it though, what does trialmin even mean? Someone else getting to close and overrule your FNR threads, even though headmins always can regardless anyways? In recent memory, I cannot recall anyone getting trialmin who was NOT eventually promoted to admin, and I've been here over a year now.

So a demote to trialmin could very well be something like "Oh, you're not and admin anymore. But you could potentially go back to being a trialmin again. It's like being an admin with less privileges, only not.". If I'm correct anyways.

One of my biggest gripes with this community is that a fair amount of shittery goes unpunished. I'd say let him go, we have enough admins.

Website · by **miggles** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:58 am #57707

oranges wrote:Zero tolerance is the worst thing ever. We gave beardbeard 22 chances

i thought it was 43

by **deathhoof** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:09 am #57712

Reinstate him with full admin powers.

by **Timbrewolf** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:14 am #57717

miggles wrote:
oranges wrote:Zero tolerance is the worst thing ever. We gave beardbeard 22 chances

i thought it was 43

That figure is for his total bans or something. It counts individually times he was banned from multiple jobs for the same things.

In truth the number of chances he was given was still way more than it should be, but not in the double digits.

Either way talking about beardbeard is offtopic and should stop.

paprika wrote:Oh my god this should have nothing to do with the community, WE VOTED FOR HEADMINS TO SORT SHIT LIKE THIS OUT

DO YA JOBS

IF THREE OF YOU CAN'T MAKE A DECISION LIKE THIS THEN WHY ARE YOU HEADMINS

What Ikky said. We did exactly what was asked of us and what should've been done from the administrative side of things. Since in this particular case his offense was ostensibly against the playerbase alone, it's not within our capacity to decide how upset the playerbase should be and whether or not they could "let this one slide". We have to assume the worst and deadmin for it. Though we are also players of the game this is a rare example of a "have" abusing his power to gain an advantage over the "have nots" of admin buttons. It's not really fair for us to just say "it's not a big deal" nor is it fair for us to decide "no forgiveness go away forever".

We deadminned him, but whether that should be permanent or temporary we decided to leave up to the community both so that they would be aware that this even happened, and because we genuinely cannot tell how upset or how forgiving people might be of this. It's been actual YEARS since we had an incident like this. The administration has changed twice over and the players have cycle through three or four generations. There are precedents but we can't say if they apply 100% or not.

This post was deleted by MrStonedOne on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:46 pm.
Reason: Requested

by **paprika** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:20 am #57720

An0n3 wrote:It's been actual YEARS since we had an incident like this.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2209

And it was locked without a word even though all the other admins who posted in here agreed this was completely shit behavior and blessed still tried to defend it (and attacked me in the process).

Come on now, this shit happens all the time, you're just choosing to make a big deal out of it for no reason. If he broke the admin rules, kick him out or back into trialmin. If you don't have a SOP for this kind of thing that's on you, because with the large number of admins we have now you should certainly be prepared for this to happen.

I think you're doing a good job, but this thread REEKS of incoming drama over it and LE ADMINS ARE BAD THEY DO THIS SHIT ALL THE TIME WTF when you should normally keep this kind of thing much more quiet.

by **bandit** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:23 am #57723

I was in this round, and I can vouch for the captain being a gigantic comdom. I'm not saying this vindicates ted's actions, but it does somewhat explain it.

by **Sum Ting Wong** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:26 am #57726

oranges wrote:edit: I totally forgot to finish my post

I dunno about the logic behind those decisions but Ted is an admin. If he tempted to give himself an advantage then why should he be given admin status again?

by **Timbrewolf** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:31 am #57731

paprika wrote:
An0n3 wrote:It's been actual YEARS since we had an incident like this.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2209

And it was locked without a word even though all the other admins who posted in here agreed this was completely shit behavior and blessed still tried to defend it (and attacked me in the process).

Come on now, this shit happens all the time, you're just choosing to make a big deal out of it for no reason. If he broke the admin rules, kick him out or back into trialmin. If you don't have a SOP for this kind of thing that's on you, because with the large number of admins we have now you should certainly be prepared for this to happen.

I think you're doing a good job, but this thread REEKS of incoming drama over it and LE ADMINS ARE BAD THEY DO THIS SHIT ALL THE TIME WTF when you should normally keep this kind of thing much more quiet.

That was an admin giving items to or messing with another player's mob.

This is an admin giving items to themselves while playing in the round.

They sound similar but they're very, VERY different things.

Please don't use this thread as a lectern for past issues you've had.

by **paprika** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:21 am #57742

You should probably still address the other points in that post, namely like "this thread REEKS of incoming drama over it and LE ADMINS ARE BAD THEY DO THIS SHIT ALL THE TIME WTF when you should normally keep this kind of thing much more quiet."

Seriously if you don't know what to do don't ask the community and make it a big deal, DECIDE ON WHAT TO DO IN THE FUTURE

by **Incomptinence** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:14 am #57756

Trialmin, break the rule back to school.

by **NikNakFlak** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:32 am #57761

Just stop paprka please.

by **Timbrewolf** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:29 am #57769

paprika wrote:You should probably still address the other points in that post, namely like "this thread REEKS of incoming drama over it and LE ADMINS ARE BAD THEY DO THIS SHIT ALL THE TIME WTF when you should normally keep this kind of thing much more quiet."

Seriously if you don't know what to do don't ask the community and make it a big deal, DECIDE ON WHAT TO DO IN THE FUTURE

I'm not going to address your points if you can only articulate them with memes and CAPSLOCK.
I'm not even sure what it is you're complaining about at this point.

by **Jalleo** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:11 am #57774

I do feel like siding with paprika a bit it is suspicious that action is now being taken against admins when they act badly.
The main question is what are you going to do when another issue like this happens?

I honestly dont want to go about deciding the fate of how people acted. If nots nothing to the scale of garrus or whoever but is a minor treat it as a infraction on their record. You dont need a community decision on something so minor...

by **oranges** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:16 am #57776

I'm actually agreeing with Paprika, they're very similar incidents no matter how you try to spin it. Both involved admins abusing powers to spawn things, neither was a serious incident and had no long term repercussions (sidestepping the rejuve issue here).

Seems like an oddly inconsistent approach.

by **soulgamer** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:21 am #57778

Jalleo wrote:I do feel like siding with paprika a bit it is suspicious that action is now being taken against admins when they act badly.
The main question is what are you going to do when another issue like this happens?

I honestly dont want to go about deciding the fate of how people acted. If nots nothing to the scale of garrus or whoever but is a minor treat it as a infraction on their record. You dont need a community decision on something so minor...

One was an admin fucking with a player and then going to far to correct it. The other is using their admin powers for personal gain in a round.

Different things with different connotations. However this is not the place for this conversation and would suggest that pap makes his own thread for that.

Ted is a pretty cool guy. I like his events and would miss him. As long as he promises never to do this shit again I dont see why we dont let him back in.

by **Bluespace** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 am #57788

Not a smooth move but he's the tedward we love, voted to reinstate.

by **paprika** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:27 am #57807

An0n3 wrote:
paprika wrote:You should probably still address the other points in that post, namely like "this thread REEKS of incoming drama over it and LE ADMINS ARE BAD THEY DO THIS SHIT ALL THE TIME WTF when you should normally keep this kind of thing much more quiet."

Seriously if you don't know what to do don't ask the community and make it a big deal, DECIDE ON WHAT TO DO IN THE FUTURE

I'm not going to address your points if you can only articulate them with memes and CAPSLOCK.
I'm not even sure what it is you're complaining about at this point.

God well aren't we on our fucking high horse tonight that we use sarcasm as a legitimate reason to not address complaints

You must be really fun at parties. I'm complaining about three things:

A) Admins do this shit all the time even if you try to say WOW GUYS THIS NEVER HAPPENS!!! to try and bullshit an excuse for why you're turning tedward's incident into a big 'community trial' so it looks really lackluster on your part to not have a better way prepared to go about this (you meaning all three of the headmins, not just you) especially with the large influx of new admins
B) I wasn't even upset about the outcome of my complaint towards blessed until tedward did it and you DEADMINNED HIM ON THE SPOT for doing practically the same thing
C) Why the fuck would you do this and not just make him a trialmin again? This is clearly a severe case of abuse of power, but tedward has a very good track record. Even as someone who hasn't been an admin, it's EXTREMELY obvious what you should be doing here, not putting him up in the public for the 'community to decide because we're too lazy to know how to do our jobs'

Like, if he breaks an in-house admin rule/no-no, kick him back to trialmin for a while. If he does it again, deadmin him. If an admin breaks a server rule and metagames or gives out information, deadmin them. Why do you need the community's help? Why do we need to forgive admins? Why the fuck can't the headmins who we elected to manage the admins, manage the admins?

by **Malkevin** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:37 am #57811

An0n3 wrote:It's been actual YEARS since we had an incident like this.

Has it ?

I don't remember it being that long since HG spawned himself a load of implants, iirc he barely even got a telling off, let alone a slap on the wrist or even an actual punishment

I don't think Ted should get off Scott free, but I also don't think his punishment should be permanent.
A straight demotion to trialmin doesn't really seem to be enough of a punishment though

by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:44 am #57814

Imo a demotion to Trialmin seems reasonable. If any admin, Tedward or otherwise, screws up two times in a row, then move to deadmin them.

Admins are placed in a position of trust and great power in the game and outside of it, no admin should ever abuse that position to give themselves some kind of advantage in game.

In fact, a admin giving themselves a in game advantage should result in a demotion. But in any case a demotion to trialmin seems fair.

by **Incomptinence** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:47 am #57815

Can a trialmin option be added to the poll? For trials and tedulations obviously.

by **Phalanx300** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:43 am #57836

The guy abused his power and there are people voting to reinstate him? Wow. People have been permabanned for less, gues you need to be admin of some kind to get away with shit like that.

by **MandurrhTemp** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:32 pm #57855

[20:47:01]SAY: The-White-Crayon/(Jack Rustle) has made a priority announcement: The first to find a paper with my stamp on it, and brings it to the HoP gets all acess. I have put it in an all acess plece. I am adding maint acess to make it fun.
[20:49:04]ADMIN: Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman) spawned /obj/item/weapon/stamp/captain at (101,98,1)
[20:50:11]SAY: Richard Aultman/Tedward1337 : <i>I FOUND IT</i>

>20:47-20:50

If you have ever interacted with Tedward you know he's one of the nicest people you'll come across and always positive. I don't know how anyone reads these logs and see's anything but playing around. If he wanted to abuse his power for all access he could've spawned a spare ID and had all access. But no in a lessthanthreeminute time frame he spawns a stamp to make a fake version of the captains paper then yells I FOUND IT! Obviously not hiding what he was doing and by doing it instantly you can tell it was just to play around with everyone. Here's an important question: DID HE RECEIVE THE ALL ACCESS AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH IT? Personal gain... please its obviously just sillyness. Tedward is always joking and smiling. And he works his ass off as an admin with a smile on his face treating everyone nicely. Instant deadminning for a joke. This looks worse on the administration than on tedward. Admins spawn things all the time to be funny or mess around. And then there are admins that spawn controversial awful things to attack players. Or spawn mechs and actually do use them against players. Yet they get off with warnings and Tedward gets deadminned for spawning a stamp. If you took action against him for trying to play around in a friendly manner with players then you need to go back and reprimand all of the admins that got 'dontdoitagain' warnings for actual selfish or mean natured offenses. And we all know there are quite a few. There shouldn't even be a vote. You would be giving up a great admin to make an example of him.

Reinstate

by **Sum Ting Wong** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:57 pm #57865

paprika wrote:Why do you need the community's help? Why do we need to forgive admins?

Vindication by community vote?

We're talking about an admin breaking the rules of the game to suit their needs right? That's several degrees of fucked up, but if you force the guilty party to openly admit their guilt and leave it to a community decision you might be able to forgo punishment altogether.

by **srifenbyxp** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:26 pm #57876

I did get a laugh out of that log, this is the first time I've seen Ted act mischievous. Just bap ted on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and tell him to behave.

Reinstate don't regulate

I do valve dirty underhanded trickery.

by **IrishWristWatch0** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:41 pm #57878

As long as he never goes back to that ugly bright green.

by **Stickymayhem** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:53 pm #57880

I think this vote wasn't the best of ideas.

He would either be crucified by the community incredibly harshly and lose admin altogether over a relatively minor incident, or the vote will pass and this will add more shit for certain people to sling at the administration.

This was clearly a joke and not an abuse of power to get all access because no one, least of all tedward, is stupid enough to intentionally risk their admin over all access for one round. It was clearly a joke to freak out the Captain, and he didn't think before doing it. In the end the stamp was literally irrelevant as he misunderstood the Captain's game in the first place.

This would have been better handled internally but transparently with a week adminban, demotion to trialmin or lengthier ban from actually playing, but not from observing, which has been done before.

by **Fragnostic** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:54 pm #57899

I miss Nerolat. ;-;

by **Sometinyprick** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:01 pm #57901

I think it would be a shame to lose Ted.
People make mistakes it's only fair to give them a second chance.
Reinstate.

by **Antonkr** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:07 pm #57902

Yeah, I think having the vote in the first place is kinda silly.

It's litterally one small thing he did, which while yes is pretty shitty versus his fucking amazing hard work and dedication he has put into actually admining the server. Ask anyone on sybil as for who handles most of their adminhelps, I can promise tedward will be the answer for many. You are honestly in my eyes pretty vindictive and stupid to "HURR DEDMIN HE" Yeah he fucked up, and no one is denying it. Most admins had their fuck ups, and I have done a lot of stupid shit in my time as an admin, including accidently spawning narsie on a traitor round, lagging the server to shit with 100 clusterbangs, killing the movement code etc. I see where this is coming from in terms of being a bigger issue of trust on if or if not he can be trusted to not metagame or give himself an advantage, but when shit is logged the way it is, do you really think that he will do this?

Reinstate.

by **Wyzack** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:00 pm #57910

Tedward seems like a bretty good admin, and a good guy. I guess i see why people are mad but this is so goddamn minor. Did he even attempt to claim his all access? This is such a harmless prank when many admins spawn shitloads of clown mobs or blow the station up with meteors in shit. Reinstate. Not to mention after this bull he is going to be walking the straight and narrow for a very long time i feel.

by **bandit** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:18 pm #57913

Upon further thinking:

I can see the argument for deadminning as a way to set precedent that this kind of admin fuckery is unacceptable under any circumstances, zero tolerance, in case larger scenarios arise.

But on the other hand it is such a small thing, unlikely to actually impact the round (captain was a comdom, besides, don't you think he'd recognize the paper he wrote?), and ultimately more "shenanigans" than "abuse."

I voted abstain.

by **NikNakFlak** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:31 pm #57918

paprika wrote:A) Admins do this shit all the time even if you try to say WOW GUYS THIS NEVER HAPPENS!!! to try and bullshit an excuse for why you're turning tedward's incident into a big 'community trial' so it looks really lackluster on your part to not have a better way prepared to go about this (you meaning all three of the headmins, not just you) especially with the large influx of new admins

No, they don't.

B) I wasn't even upset about the outcome of my complaint towards blessed until tedward did it and you DEADMINNED HIM ON THE SPOT for doing practically the same thing

Two different situations as pointed by others users in this thread.

C) Why the fuck would you do this and not just make him a trialmin again? This is clearly a severe case of abuse of power, but tedward has a very good track record. Even as someone who hasn't been an admin, it's EXTREMELY obvious what you should be doing here, not putting him up in the public for the 'community to decide because we're too lazy to know how to do our jobs.

This is just rude. The headmins had ample time to discus a course of action and they settled on this one. Other admins and other players already brought to light that this vote wasn't the best of idea, they got it, information delivered, now stop being so rude about it. This was a headmin choice, if you think you can do better, run for headmin next election. I certainly don't think it was laziness. This vote is just a deciding factor anyway, a factor in a bigger choice to keep or drop Tedward.

This post was deleted by Ikarrus on Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:24 pm.
Reason: Off topic shitpost