/tg/Station 13

So someone brought up this point during a blob round earlier. In lore, we give the captain the option of executing a 10-7 Quarantine Procedure and nuking the station instead of fighting the blob if they believe things are too foregone.

From a gameplay standpoint, we worry that it might be considered unfair to the blob, as it presents a "fuck you" option that would result in no one winning. However, I see no reason the code shouldn't be made available if a captain asks for it, with the stipulation that we don't just hand it over.

I personally like the idea of making the captain wait for the nuke codes, so that it's not just an option right out the gate to go FUCK THIS, NUKE. Thought you guys might want to chime in.

Few options for you guys, but if you choose "other" please post and let us know what your idea is.

Also, while we're on it, to dispel a rumor that's been going around, the nuke in the vault is not armable out of the gate. An admin has to assign a code to it for it to be usable. So no, you can't just nuke the station if you guess the code (since it doesn't exist).

Poll will auto-close in a week.

Make it that detonating the nuke gives a win to the blob.

I'm gonna say timer, but only with a HUGE time. Like over an hour into the round as a stalemate breaker only.

Something like an hour and thirty in and they still haven't finished off the blob for some reason or another.

Blob can consider it a pyrrhic victory, since it forced them to go the nuke route just to get rid of it.

Yes, but captain must wait for centcomm to Deliver the nuke code. Maby through a centcomm official delivering it to the station in the flesh, or something. Its better RP wise, and it still gives blob a chance.

Steelpoint wrote:Make it that detonating the nuke gives a win to the blob.

Blob minor victory? I like it.

Crew Major Victory:
Killing the Bleb
Crew Minor Victory:
Nuking it from orbit
Bleb Major Victory
Normal way the blob wins
Bleb Minor Victory
Crew leaves on the shuttle

Why would the blob win if the crew nukes it? It died, that don't make any sense.

Blob already gives the station the nuke code. It's in the code. I coded it.

But I set the time to 50 minutes. Feel free to change it through coderbus, though.

Shuttle doesn't come during bleb and probably shouldn't.

It shouldn't, if such a simple escape was possible, the crew would only have to call the shuttle, go away, and nuke it from orbit.

About the codes, giving it a long way (those 50 mins are fine, IMO) and considering it a blob minor victory (So the crew don't happily commit suicide just to deny the blob the victory) would be fine.
It should be a blob win, since a perfectly fine station was completely destroyed because of it, the only way to improve it, is for the blob to reign the remains of said station.

I think it's just coded as a stalemate right now.

Because seriously if the blob hasn't won or lost in 50 minutes then both sides have failed and they both deserve to lose.

The nuke is literally just a "OMG just end this round already PLEASE"

I think the timer of 50 minutes is fine. If either side doesnt win by then, it's probably going no where anytime soon and likely dragging an awful round out.

Steelpoint wrote:Make it that detonating the nuke gives a win to the blob.

I'd say it should be a blob minor victory or something. Or a crew minor victory. Either way it should be noted that its a desperate last resort.

Also you could fluff it that cent comm has to go through bureaucratic nonsense to make the Captain wait for the codes. Gives the blob time to react and also forces the captain to be off hand and not battling the blob.

Maybe the bridges comm's console could have a "Request nuke auth codes" that can be requested similar to sending a message to centcomm or requesting the aux shuttle to move. (As in normally does nothing but send a message to the admins).

Stickymayhem wrote:Shuttle doesn't come during bleb and probably shouldn't.

I also I think this too, shuttle shouldn't be able to be called to a confirmed hostile virus outbreak such as blob. Its supposed to be a quarantine type event.

Ikarrus wrote:Blob already gives the station the nuke code. It's in the code. I coded it.

But I set the time to 50 minutes. Feel free to change it through coderbus, though.

Was this done with intent that we would go delta once the blob is spotted? Because that opens a whole new window for Security to deal with shitters during blob which sadly can be pretty problematic.

Also nobody ever elevates to code red because everyone is too busy kicking everything into maximum overdrive to fight blob. Actually people rarely go to code red anyways so whatever.

In my experience, it's infrequent that someone even asks for them.
Typically, a captain will grab the disc AND pinpointer, put on his space suit, and charge the blob with double E-guns fuck all, getting themselves killed.

If the captain asks for the codes, don't make him wait godknowshowlong for the codes.
Last night when I asked for the codes as HOP, admins said "Wait 5 minutes, for us to varedit the nuke".
That's fair, but don't make us wait 50, or even 30 minutes due to four blob cores because some scumbag blobed in the toxins testing site.

Couldn't the blob just pop near the vault and loltrollu destroy the nuke?

KingLouisXIV wrote:Couldn't the blob just pop near the vault and loltrollu destroy the nuke?

Yes, and that may well be a legitimate strategy. Of course the admins may decide to deploy the ERT with their own Nuke and detonate it that.

I think that the admins should only consider giving the crew manual access to the nuke after 30 minutes have elapsed, anything less feels to early in my opinion.

I also think that if we are going to make nukes more common in Blob rounds, that we have to make the Blob take over more of the station than it does now. Since right now a Blob typically wins if it just takes over one department, meaning it does not feel like there's pressure to detonate the Nuke.

Steelpoint wrote:

KingLouisXIV wrote:Couldn't the blob just pop near the vault and loltrollu destroy the nuke?

Yes, and that may well be a legitimate strategy. Of course the admins may decide to deploy the ERT with their own Nuke and detonate it that.

I think that the admins should only consider giving the crew manual access to the nuke after 30 minutes have elapsed, anything less feels to early in my opinion.

I also think that if we are going to make nukes more common in Blob rounds, that we have to make the Blob take over more of the station than it does now. Since right now a Blob typically wins if it just takes over one department, meaning it does not feel like there's pressure to detonate the Nuke.

By the time a blob's expanded enough to take over a department, it's likely to have enough cores and resource nodes to fend off any opposition AND the crew's likely to have blown their load and lost most of their able hands and weaponry. All increasing the towin blob count would do is drag things out.

RnD has a chance in the lategame.

Steelpoint wrote:

KingLouisXIV wrote:Couldn't the blob just pop near the vault and loltrollu destroy the nuke?

Yes, and that may well be a legitimate strategy. Of course the admins may decide to deploy the ERT with their own Nuke and detonate it that.

I think popping near the vault because nuke would be a bit meta. But yes, if it came to it, we would send an ERT (or probably a deathsquad) with a nuke.

The stalemate ender should be x rays usually I think.

Outside of the obvious shitlery that could happen why don't the heads of staff have a part of the nuke code in their head notes? The nukes codes are five digits right? HoP, HoS, CMO, CE and the Captain make five heads...

Well obviously if one of them dies you're screwed but I'm sure CentComm could give the full code through a classified message if two or more heads were to die. I find the Captain only knowing it to be a really bad idea.

Make it as that other thread described: Clown and Mime start with half the code each.

I once suggested the idea of a key thats split into two parts, Captain would have one part, HoP would have the other.
That might be a bit too limited though, maybe:
-Cap, HoS, RD have part A
-HoP, CE, CMO have part B

Note: this is the ruskie version of the nuke code safe key. The Americans had two electronic locks that needed to be activated at the same time within a few seconds - so two people were needed to turn the keys, the ruskies had a single key that was split into two pieces - so a single person could turn the key.


Back on topic - I think the nuke disk should be request-able in more round types, like cult and rev as well as blob - all those rounds have a point where the crew's lost and they'll want to make a sacrificial pyrrhic victory

Nuking the blob is a have your cake and eat it too ending for spoiled brats.

I was thinking of a combination of the two. The Captain and another head of staff (probably HoS) start with the key and have the codes, BUT can't use it until a certain point in the round (Centcom has to approve its use).

Hell, fuck the nuke, why don't we have a big red SELF-DESTRUCT button? That's what Delta always made me think of. It wouldn't work unless an admin turns it on or we time it on Blob but it'd still be cool.

This is the future, in the future, there are things like secret sharing cryptography, where you need, say, any 3 of 5 total decryption keys to decrypt the nuke code. (note, this already exists now)

Vekter wrote:I was thinking of a combination of the two. The Captain and another head of staff (probably HoS) start with the key and have the codes, BUT can't use it until a certain point in the round (Centcom has to approve its use).

Hell, fuck the nuke, why don't we have a big red SELF-DESTRUCT button? That's what Delta always made me think of. It wouldn't work unless an admin turns it on or we time it on Blob but it'd still be cool.

Or some console option that requires a bunch of head ID swipes to engage self-destruct

Cecily wrote:

Vekter wrote:I was thinking of a combination of the two. The Captain and another head of staff (probably HoS) start with the key and have the codes, BUT can't use it until a certain point in the round (Centcom has to approve its use).

Hell, fuck the nuke, why don't we have a big red SELF-DESTRUCT button? That's what Delta always made me think of. It wouldn't work unless an admin turns it on or we time it on Blob but it'd still be cool.

Or some console option that requires a bunch of head ID swipes to engage self-destruct

This is one of the few things that should not be emaggable.

DemonFiren wrote:

Cecily wrote:

Vekter wrote:I was thinking of a combination of the two. The Captain and another head of staff (probably HoS) start with the key and have the codes, BUT can't use it until a certain point in the round (Centcom has to approve its use).

Hell, fuck the nuke, why don't we have a big red SELF-DESTRUCT button? That's what Delta always made me think of. It wouldn't work unless an admin turns it on or we time it on Blob but it'd still be cool.

Or some console option that requires a bunch of head ID swipes to engage self-destruct

This is one of the few things that should not be emaggable.

I would actually go as far as to say an admin HAS to toggle a variable or hit a button to activate it. I still love the idea of there being a built-in self destruct option. Delta even says self-destruct mechanism instead of nuclear device, doesn't it? I always thought us having a nuke was a temporary thing until someone figured out something better for a self-destruct mechanism.

I'll make a post in Ideas and gauge interest. E: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2774

E: Currently it's a pretty close race between time limit and no time limit. Can people post their reasoning for both if you haven't already? I want us to have a good view of what each side wants and why before there's any kind of decision made.

I think that it shouldn't have a time limit, but rather, the captain has to fill out a reason why he wants the nuke to be armed, and treat it like the communications array (I:E: Open season on people who mess around with it)

I still think there needs to be a bit of an IC reason to nuke yourself in a blob round, to be honest. All it's doing is killing everyone and everything on the station, not just the blob but all the crew as well. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face in the strangest way possible.

SS13 isn't known for travelling anywhere, so it's not like nuking it is stopping the blob from spreading, either.

Cheimon wrote:
SS13 isn't known for travelling anywhere, so it's not like nuking it is stopping the blob from spreading, either.

You do know the blob can expand into space, right? Just imagine a huge green thing slowly creeping towards central command. So yes, there is an IC reason to nuke the blob.

Mass drivers.
Bluespace Tech
Shuttles

Not to mention the amount of scavengers a high security top research facility suddenly going dark is going to attract

Dead even between outright given the crew the codes and making it a timed issue.

I'll forward this to the headmins. Thanks for the input!

Not sure why you're involving us. This should be forwarded to headcoders.