The next headmin election
-
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:21 pm
- Byond Username: QuartzCrystal
The next headmin election
Howdy folks,
As the self-appointed Chief Electoral Officer of /tg/station 13 I figured I'd throw this out here to avoid any confusion (and to avoid any unnecessary policy discussion threads).
The next headmin election will be in May (the overwhelming majority of players voiced that they wanted 6 months terms). There was generally no agreement on term limits, though a general consensus was that IF there is going to be term limits, they would be 2+. SO, when the headmin election gets going in May we will also hold an official vote on term limits (and if there is demand, an official vote on how long terms should be).
We will also be going in a different order as to when each of the three headmins will be chosen. Admins and coders will choose first, then the players will vote. This order seems to be nearly everyone's preference. Coders and admins will roughly choose at the same time probably, as from what we saw last time there wasn't much overlap in nominees.
Anyways, use this thread to discuss term limits and term lengths if you wish (or to ask any questions/make suggestions on how the next headmin election will be run).
Discussion of current headmins or potential future candidates is heavily discouraged and may very well be deleted.
As the self-appointed Chief Electoral Officer of /tg/station 13 I figured I'd throw this out here to avoid any confusion (and to avoid any unnecessary policy discussion threads).
The next headmin election will be in May (the overwhelming majority of players voiced that they wanted 6 months terms). There was generally no agreement on term limits, though a general consensus was that IF there is going to be term limits, they would be 2+. SO, when the headmin election gets going in May we will also hold an official vote on term limits (and if there is demand, an official vote on how long terms should be).
We will also be going in a different order as to when each of the three headmins will be chosen. Admins and coders will choose first, then the players will vote. This order seems to be nearly everyone's preference. Coders and admins will roughly choose at the same time probably, as from what we saw last time there wasn't much overlap in nominees.
Anyways, use this thread to discuss term limits and term lengths if you wish (or to ask any questions/make suggestions on how the next headmin election will be run).
Discussion of current headmins or potential future candidates is heavily discouraged and may very well be deleted.
- Timbrewolf
- Rarely plays
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:55 am
- Byond Username: An0n3
Re: The next headmin election
6 month terms keeps everyone enthusiastic and full of steam. It's really the best. I don't think "limiting the tenure of shitty headmins" is a real plus, we should eventually get around to establishing some kind of process for a "vote of no confidence/impeachment" process just in case.
If you want three people to be putting in their all and giving the position the attention it deserves on a daily basis asking them to do it for a year straight is a bit much. I think perhaps one of the reasons we've seen so much strife in previous trios is because we kept them chained to throne longer than anyone should have to suffer that fate. Six months also keeps people honest, if you're going to make campaign promises to do things you can't procrastinate about it. It's short and sweet.
I flip flop on how I feel about term limits. I don't think it'll actually be a problem in the way people believe it to be. I think the community will prefer a new potentially better thing over the expectation of a tested pretty good thing every time. The only time anyone ever got re-elected was in Deuryn's case. I would hate to have someone actually be the kind of admin that could consistently do the job well and manage to get re-elected but eventually barred from doing it because of an arbitrary rule.
On the flip-side I'm sure there are ways someone could essentially lock themselves into a consistent no-contest election for reasons other than merit. And that's incredibly shitty and undermines the whole reason we have these elections in the first place. I'm not sure whether putting in a term limit or just waiting for that awful situation to arise and dealing with it then would be the best solution.
I think figuring out the process for how we should handle someone who is not working to expectations, not filling the shoes, is a bigger priority and something we might need before deciding on how many times we should let someone who is working out well keep working. And maybe that's a derail and we should talk about that somewhere else?
If you want three people to be putting in their all and giving the position the attention it deserves on a daily basis asking them to do it for a year straight is a bit much. I think perhaps one of the reasons we've seen so much strife in previous trios is because we kept them chained to throne longer than anyone should have to suffer that fate. Six months also keeps people honest, if you're going to make campaign promises to do things you can't procrastinate about it. It's short and sweet.
I flip flop on how I feel about term limits. I don't think it'll actually be a problem in the way people believe it to be. I think the community will prefer a new potentially better thing over the expectation of a tested pretty good thing every time. The only time anyone ever got re-elected was in Deuryn's case. I would hate to have someone actually be the kind of admin that could consistently do the job well and manage to get re-elected but eventually barred from doing it because of an arbitrary rule.
On the flip-side I'm sure there are ways someone could essentially lock themselves into a consistent no-contest election for reasons other than merit. And that's incredibly shitty and undermines the whole reason we have these elections in the first place. I'm not sure whether putting in a term limit or just waiting for that awful situation to arise and dealing with it then would be the best solution.
I think figuring out the process for how we should handle someone who is not working to expectations, not filling the shoes, is a bigger priority and something we might need before deciding on how many times we should let someone who is working out well keep working. And maybe that's a derail and we should talk about that somewhere else?
Shed Wolf Numero Uno
NSFW:
- Loonikus
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:20 am
- Byond Username: Loonicus
Re: The next headmin election
Regarding limitations, has anyone brought up the possibility of restricting candidates to one "head" role at a time, I.E. a Headcoder could not run for Headmin and vice versa?
The primary reason I bring this up is because I find it hard to believe that someone could take on the responsibilities of both a headcoder and a headmin at the same time and be able to devote an equal amount of effort into each position. Even the best candidate is still only one person, they can only do so much and I don't think its fair to the community to have the person they voted for to be too busy to handle their affairs in one job because they are too focused on the other.
The primary reason I bring this up is because I find it hard to believe that someone could take on the responsibilities of both a headcoder and a headmin at the same time and be able to devote an equal amount of effort into each position. Even the best candidate is still only one person, they can only do so much and I don't think its fair to the community to have the person they voted for to be too busy to handle their affairs in one job because they are too focused on the other.
-
- In Game PermaBanned
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 11:17 pm
- Byond Username: Cipher3
Re: The next headmin election
You make a fairly good point, however our voting system for the previous election gave Coderbus the vote for one of the headmin positions, and who are they more likely to elect than their highest?Loonikus wrote:Regarding limitations, has anyone brought up the possibility of restricting candidates to one "head" role at a time, I.E. a Headcoder could not run for Headmin and vice versa?
The primary reason I bring this up is because I find it hard to believe that someone could take on the responsibilities of both a headcoder and a headmin at the same time and be able to devote an equal amount of effort into each position. Even the best candidate is still only one person, they can only do so much and I don't think its fair to the community to have the person they voted for to be too busy to handle their affairs in one job because they are too focused on the other.
Spoiler:
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
- Byond Username: Scones
- Location: cooler than thou
Re: The next headmin election
Cipher3 wrote:You make a fairly good point, however our voting system for the previous election gave Coderbus the vote for one of the headmin positions, and who are they more likely to elect than their highest?Loonikus wrote:Regarding limitations, has anyone brought up the possibility of restricting candidates to one "head" role at a time, I.E. a Headcoder could not run for Headmin and vice versa?
The primary reason I bring this up is because I find it hard to believe that someone could take on the responsibilities of both a headcoder and a headmin at the same time and be able to devote an equal amount of effort into each position. Even the best candidate is still only one person, they can only do so much and I don't think its fair to the community to have the person they voted for to be too busy to handle their affairs in one job because they are too focused on the other.
>they are 'independent' but get a collective vote in our administration
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
- Byond Username: Optimumtact
- Github Username: optimumtact
- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: The next headmin election
Yes, that was what scaredofshadows opted to do with his personal vote, rather than use it himself.
Re: The next headmin election
I think that coders should be treated as players and that players should get to vote on 2 headmins. Meaning 2 most voted on by the players will be headmins.
- Timbrewolf
- Rarely plays
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:55 am
- Byond Username: An0n3
Re: The next headmin election
Well it's exactly like oranges said.
To be specific it's one vote from the playerbase, one vote from the admins, and one person picked by SoS.
He's just chosen to give his pick over to a coderbus vote in the previous election.
I can't speak for him but I would guess he's likely to do that again?
To be specific it's one vote from the playerbase, one vote from the admins, and one person picked by SoS.
He's just chosen to give his pick over to a coderbus vote in the previous election.
I can't speak for him but I would guess he's likely to do that again?
Shed Wolf Numero Uno
NSFW:
-
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: The next headmin election
By HG's own admission the coders are 'independent' from the server. As administration is regarding the server and it's policies, I don't see any reason why a group that is independent from the server should have any special say in regards to headmins. Unless coders actually are directly connected to the server. Hm?
- paprika
- Rarely plays
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:20 pm
- Byond Username: Paprka
- Location: in down bad
Re: The next headmin election
Please read, lum. Scaredy wanted coderbus to choose.An0n3 wrote: He's just chosen to give his pick over to a coderbus vote in the previous election.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.
-
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: The next headmin election
I know, I am saying, to everyone, scaredy included that it makes no logical sense for them to be gifted a vote if they're going to argue independence.
- paprika
- Rarely plays
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:20 pm
- Byond Username: Paprka
- Location: in down bad
Re: The next headmin election
That's up to scaredy, he clearly believes that the coders had a good say on the topic.
Independence between the server and code project is absolute, there is no arguing. Scaredy will tell you this himself. This has been the case for a really, really long time, sorry to burst your bubble. But scaredy likes the 'team' that are mostly in charge or have the most experience with the project so he trusts their judgement.
I see no other viable option since the player and admin votes were already decided and scaredy didn't want to hand select another headmin.
I also don't see why it doesn't make any logical sense when it totally does, but I guess you're out of the loop and making shitty assumptions lel
Independence between the server and code project is absolute, there is no arguing. Scaredy will tell you this himself. This has been the case for a really, really long time, sorry to burst your bubble. But scaredy likes the 'team' that are mostly in charge or have the most experience with the project so he trusts their judgement.
I see no other viable option since the player and admin votes were already decided and scaredy didn't want to hand select another headmin.
I also don't see why it doesn't make any logical sense when it totally does, but I guess you're out of the loop and making shitty assumptions lel
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.
-
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: The next headmin election
It makes no logical sense because if coderbus is seperate from /tg/ station, then policy does not effect coderbus as coders, only as players. Coders are a part of coderbus, players are a part of /tg/ station, you can of course be both, but logically being a coder cannot have any bearing on server/policy matters if they're seperate.
Therefore if coders are having a say in policy via voting on headmins, then they are doing so from their perspective as players, not coders.
Of course scaredy can do what he wants with his vote, just as he can do whatever he wants with the server etc etc. No need to go down that road of discussion again though.
Therefore if coders are having a say in policy via voting on headmins, then they are doing so from their perspective as players, not coders.
Of course scaredy can do what he wants with his vote, just as he can do whatever he wants with the server etc etc. No need to go down that road of discussion again though.
- Steelpoint
- Github User
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
- Byond Username: Steelpoint
- Github Username: Steelpoint
- Location: The Armoury
Re: The next headmin election
Personally I always found it iffy that coderbus was given a headmin role despite their desire to remain separate from the server, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
E: Also imo I think a 6 month term limit is good, simply because it lets headmins step down for a bit if they find the role to stressful. However I think there should be no rule in allowing someone to reenrole for a headmin consecutively
E: Also imo I think a 6 month term limit is good, simply because it lets headmins step down for a bit if they find the role to stressful. However I think there should be no rule in allowing someone to reenrole for a headmin consecutively
-
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:32 am
- Byond Username: Mrpain666
Re: The next headmin election
Took the words out of my mouth.Steelpoint wrote:Personally I always found it iffy that coderbus was given a headmin role despite their desire to remain separate from the server, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
E: Also imo I think a 6 month term limit is good, simply because it lets headmins step down for a bit if they find the role to stressful. However I think there should be no rule in allowing someone to reenrole for a headmin consecutively
/vg/station Head Admin
- Timbrewolf
- Rarely plays
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:55 am
- Byond Username: An0n3
Re: The next headmin election
We're working towards making things more closely related. The last roundtable was all about how we might work to find some compromise and bridge that gap.
To say a coder elected headmin is a bad idea on the principal that coderbus is a separate entity is encouraging that divide. It's a step backwards in the process of bringing that part of our community in.
Rather than say that this is a bad thing and shouldn't be this way, we should be talking (in another thread) about what it means that they have a representative in the headministration on the server and what the community outside of coderbus should expect in return for that. It's really fertile ground for discussion but it's maybe outside the scope of this thread?
Maybe talking about what the community should expect out of that representative or extra responsibilities they should have in that position would fit more into what we could talk about here? To say "we shouldn't have a coder elected headmin" is an opinion you're definitely entitled to, don't get me wrong, and it's a topic that's right on point for this thread too.
I'm just saying as someone who would like to see that gap bridged once and for all that having that opinion doesn't help bring the two sides together. That opinion and that resolution just reinforces the divide.
-------------------------------------------
On that thought, Ikky HG and myself have been interchangeable when it comes to roles but have also done certain things maybe a little bit more than others. We all have our specialties. I'm pretty sure I've been the most active in FNR, Ikky has done a lot of the caretaking and keeping the community up on things, HG wears his two hats as a headcoder and a head admin. Do you guys feel like this has worked out well? Do you have feedback going forward on bringing deadicated headmin roles back? Do you feel like us individually doing what we felt was needed as we saw it got everything done?
This is a good time to say "Hey these guys could've done X thing better if Y was different."
(I think the three of us did great and I would think that electing headmins without roles and then allowing them to decide amongst themselves whether to be three "floating" headmins who do all the things as a team should work great again. Then again I don't know? Maybe you had some ban appeals/requests that took forever and wish there was one single head of bans again to go right to. Maybe the trialmin process is not right and you want a head of trialmins again. I don't know!)
To say a coder elected headmin is a bad idea on the principal that coderbus is a separate entity is encouraging that divide. It's a step backwards in the process of bringing that part of our community in.
Rather than say that this is a bad thing and shouldn't be this way, we should be talking (in another thread) about what it means that they have a representative in the headministration on the server and what the community outside of coderbus should expect in return for that. It's really fertile ground for discussion but it's maybe outside the scope of this thread?
Maybe talking about what the community should expect out of that representative or extra responsibilities they should have in that position would fit more into what we could talk about here? To say "we shouldn't have a coder elected headmin" is an opinion you're definitely entitled to, don't get me wrong, and it's a topic that's right on point for this thread too.
I'm just saying as someone who would like to see that gap bridged once and for all that having that opinion doesn't help bring the two sides together. That opinion and that resolution just reinforces the divide.
-------------------------------------------
On that thought, Ikky HG and myself have been interchangeable when it comes to roles but have also done certain things maybe a little bit more than others. We all have our specialties. I'm pretty sure I've been the most active in FNR, Ikky has done a lot of the caretaking and keeping the community up on things, HG wears his two hats as a headcoder and a head admin. Do you guys feel like this has worked out well? Do you have feedback going forward on bringing deadicated headmin roles back? Do you feel like us individually doing what we felt was needed as we saw it got everything done?
This is a good time to say "Hey these guys could've done X thing better if Y was different."
(I think the three of us did great and I would think that electing headmins without roles and then allowing them to decide amongst themselves whether to be three "floating" headmins who do all the things as a team should work great again. Then again I don't know? Maybe you had some ban appeals/requests that took forever and wish there was one single head of bans again to go right to. Maybe the trialmin process is not right and you want a head of trialmins again. I don't know!)
Shed Wolf Numero Uno
NSFW:
-
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: The next headmin election
I am of the opinion that the two should be linked, which by extension would justify a headmin vote. However I don't believe this is currently the case - an opinion that is backed by HG himself.
However if people are going to tell me that they're not linked and never will be, then what can I do but word my argument around our current state of affairs?
This isnt an issue with the headmins themselves, who by all means have done their duties well enough. This is an issue about people saying that they're seperate, and justifying unpopular decision and behavior. Also going out of your way to inflame the situation by mocking and insulting people, by anyone is disgusting as fuck and literally helps no one.
However if people are going to tell me that they're not linked and never will be, then what can I do but word my argument around our current state of affairs?
This isnt an issue with the headmins themselves, who by all means have done their duties well enough. This is an issue about people saying that they're seperate, and justifying unpopular decision and behavior. Also going out of your way to inflame the situation by mocking and insulting people, by anyone is disgusting as fuck and literally helps no one.
-
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:05 pm
- Byond Username: Dazbuzz
Re: The next headmin election
Im curious, do all 3 of our current headmins even want to run for position again?
-
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:21 pm
- Byond Username: QuartzCrystal
Re: The next headmin election
We'll find out!Alex Crimson wrote:Im curious, do all 3 of our current headmins even want to run for position again?
-
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:21 pm
- Byond Username: QuartzCrystal
Re: The next headmin election
Also the official election discussion IRC channel is #electionbus. I'm the only one ever there now-a-days but when the election gets going I'll be sure to hang out there and answer any questions people have.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users