/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Quit saying "your little metagang" like every single player there plays like that. It is outright not true. Some people are dicks, but there are people being dicks on every server.

If you are not a part of the metagroup, then i see no reason for you to take offense.

The issue is that you put every basil player in to this group and call us all shit. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of good players and a few people who metafriend hard. Obviously since we are apparently arguing the fate of server 2 (yet again) it is entirely on topic for me to point out that most of us are not like that.

Its easier to generalize than it is to say "those Basil metafriends(not including Wyzack)". Regardless, Basil does not need to die. The playerbase just needs to stop acting like they are some kind of special entity inside /tg/. Its just the second server, nothing more. No unique experience.

It is different though, that is not something that is even worth debating. People just play differently there, that will probably not change. We are talking about shutting it down, which is not a solution to server 2's problems

Its not different. The people playing there act like its different, which is the main problem with Basil. I remember people suggesting starting up another server with more strict RP rules, but that never happened. Basil has the same rules and regulations as Sybil. New players shouldnt be turned off the second server because of the playerbase.

The Basil players need to change their ways or find another server to play on that is more in-line with the experience they want. The server itself doesnt need to be shut down, as its needed to handle the population overflow during peak times.

Alex, you're labouring under the misconception that the Sybil playstyle is the "correct" one. The only correct way to play is abiding by the rules - and the rules don't tell you to play a certain way. Either we keep the servers as they are, or both change to be more like the other. And that last one is a lofty goal, yes, but probably unattainable, given the playerbase.

Despite what some Sybil players may think, Basil isn't (just) the overflow server. If you want Sybil 2, make Sybil 2.

TheNightingale wrote:the Sybil playstyle is the "correct" one.

correct i'm glad we can close this topic now

TheNightingale wrote:The [...] correct way to play is [...] to be more like [...] Basil

You were saying?

So what is your proposed solution then alex? Have admins lurk the second server and issue warnings and bans to players that do not fit your objectively correct opinion on how to play the game?

I thought admins already lurked on the second server, I never see many admins on server one.

I prefer the slow rounds of basil instead of quick paced 20 minute rounds. Playing 50 rounds in 3 hours on sybil compared to 1-2 rounds in 3 hours on basil, I generally find it way more interesting and engaging for me. I'm not gonna lie, yes it does get boring sometimes when it's lowpop 3 hour rounds, but I still enjoy it way more than playing sibyl any time of the day.

maybe this isn't related to the thread but one thing I hate about basil is that even during lowpop rounds there are players who only roll assistant an then just don't do anything useful unless their doing some particular gimmick that round rollo. imo I wish assistants we're disabled when less than 10 people are online

e: words

lumipharon wrote:The amount of server hate (both ways) is so over the top and rediculous, holy shit.

I used to only play on server 2, for well over a year. Now I only really play on server 1 (population reasons only).
All this constant bullshit about metafriends, circlejerks is seriously wrong.

The only real difference is, there is only 15-30 people on at once, and the total number of people that frequent that server is much lower then sybil. This means you get to know a much higher percentage of the total pop, which consequencially means you know more of the crew in any given round far better then sybil where 80% of people you've never seen before or remember.

There is a big fucking difference between getting to knowing people (which is what anyone with atleast the mental capacity of a toaster will achieve), and actually metafriending. ie: Knowing Dick McTickler always starts fights, so when someone accuses him of assault, you're more inclined to believe them. As opposed to: hearing that Dick McTicker and someone are in a fight, so you run over and beat the other person to death without any context.

I mean shit, you can claim sybil has the same 'meta friending' if you look at (for example) Reed Glover, since literally everyone loves and trusts him, and plenty of people have openly admitted to sparing his life during murderbones etc because of who he is.

Someone talking sense in a server war thread? Can't have that get out.

Seriously:

1) Look up the phrase "narcissism of small differences," it sums up this thread
2) If you're talking about meta-gangs NAME NAMES, otherwise you're just throwing around buzzwords.

I hate Jews. My friends in the bar told me that they're the worse kind of people. They gang up and watch over eachother and they don't let anyone join their secret club. Have I ever been to a synagogue? God no, why would I go there when I have anecdotal accounts from my friends at the bar.

Replace Jews with basil players, bar with ooc and synagogue with #2 and you have your average know it all retard

Alex my boy my good friend let the big boys talk about things that appear far too out of reach from your mental gymnastics session. Let me give you a little tip: if you build your foundations out of a pack of mouth breathing cards sooner or later it's all going to come down and you may break a bone or two.

Tsaricide wrote:Do we?

Do we really need Tsaricide?
Can't get rid of a second server just because it doesn't play how Sybil plays or just because it doesn't get as much pop.

I just want everyone to be one big happy family all on one server instead of split up.

Tsaricide wrote:I just want everyone to be one big happy family all on one server instead of split up.

It will never happen.

ColonicAcid wrote:I hate Jews. My friends in the bar told me that they're the worse kind of people. They gang up and watch over eachother and they don't let anyone join their secret club. Have I ever been to a synagogue? God no, why would I go there when I have anecdotal accounts from my friends at the bar.

Replace Jews with basil players, bar with ooc and synagogue with #2 and you have your average know it all retard

Alex my boy my good friend let the big boys talk about things that appear far too out of reach from your mental gymnastics session. Let me give you a little tip: if you build your foundations out of a pack of mouth breathing cards sooner or later it's all going to come down and you may break a bone or two.

He does have a point though and there is no denying that the experience of Basil is entirely different than that of Sybil and if you throw 30 people from Sybil into a 20 person Basil round it WILL cause conflict.

Tsaricide wrote:I just want everyone to be one big happy family all on one server instead of split up.

Not everyone likes ~100-pop rounds, though. Personally, I find them horribly chaotic and overwhelming.

I've played on both servers from time to time, and usually end up maining Basil nowadays mainly because the population on Sibyl was just too high for my tastes. I might give it another try now that things have a population cap and I tend to play off peak hours, but we'll see.

Honestly from a round, they thing I want the most is to be able to facilitate someone else's round. I don't particularly want to be a traitor at all, but I DO want to be able to supply people with a bunch of minerals or plants or something similar, or keep people in the round with medbay. I basically want to help facilitate things happening, be they a whole bunch of different foods in the bar or a traitor RD being able to run around with a Phazon. I also want to be able to do a little bit of roleplay here and there without being treated like I'm some kind of idiot pariah.

I basically just want to play wherever I can do that and be comfortable.

Edit: I also like to try and get to know my coworkers a little bit do I can tailor things to them too, so I guess that makes me a filthy meta friend too.

Well the issue is if people actually tried spreading the population to basil the type of rounds you have would no longer exist.

If we're going to have an overflow basil is not it.

I don't really understand what you're coming up with here. Old #2 was around 40 players average every day and it was fine, basil isn't basil because of low player rounds, it's never been about that, it's about having more regular roleplay than sybil.

Another point, some people don't understand why I'm so salty about people throwing around meatfriends and metagangs. These people have 0 connections when #2 was at its prime, they have no reason to even talk about that shit. They weren't there, their anecdotes mean literal fucking nothing, especially when they're propagated in the shitfest that is sybil ooc. Some admins are also responsible for this shit stirring as the well, some were simply not here or not playing on #2 when it was at its prime.

I played basil during its prime. Back when it was more popular than Sybil.
I moved to Sybil because having only half the station populated every round is fucking boring.

What I really miss were the Badger prime days, where shit was getting done and metastation was new and fun. And despite all that server split drama, nothing had changed. Badger died, NTstation died, then everyone who used to play on them went back to Sybil rather than Basil's meager population, and it's stayed that way for the last year and a bit.

ColonicAcid wrote:I don't really understand what you're coming up with here. Old #2 was around 40 players average every day and it was fine, basil isn't basil because of low player rounds, it's never been about that, it's about having more regular roleplay than sybil.

A large portion of the people who play Basil is because it's lower pop (You can argue lower pop = shit goes to hell slower = more rp I guess).

Tornadium wrote:

ColonicAcid wrote:I don't really understand what you're coming up with here. Old #2 was around 40 players average every day and it was fine, basil isn't basil because of low player rounds, it's never been about that, it's about having more regular roleplay than sybil.

A large portion of the people who play Basil is because it's lower pop (You can argue lower pop = shit goes to hell slower = more rp I guess).

I like playing on server 1 because of the lower pop, this doesn't mean I like playing rounds when there are only 5 people. I like lower pop when it's around 20-30 people, that's for me the perfect mix of round speed to rp ratio.

Well we do have a big, big problem with what is frankly xenophobia on Basil and I suppose if it's left to evolve it will eventually turn into Bay but with /tg/ code, which I don't think anyone wants. What needs to happen is both servers need to stop acting like they're better than the other. Server war shit-talking aside, (which isn't unexpected, it is a competitive event after all) there are some really dumb beliefs held by some dumb motherfuckers on both servers that don't help the problem at all.

I think a lot of people here, on both sides, are missing the point. The problem is that Basil was intended to be an overflow for Sybil when it hit the population cap. However, people aren't going to Basil, they're waiting on Sybil or they're going elsewhere or they're not playing at all. But they're not going to Basil. And whatever the reason is, it's a problem.

I don't play there because there's no one over there and, try as you might to deny it, Basil is incredibly hostile to newcomers. That's a huge fucking problem. Even if it's a vocal minority, it's maximized by the lack of population, and they're still pushing people away. That isn't healthy for /tg/station. Especially when we're sitting at our lowest new player numbers in years.

Let me start off by saying that I play both servers and enjoy both very much, and would be sad to see either go.

I'd like to elaborate on the "metafriending" thing that people keep accusing Basil of. From what I can tell, the metafriending on basil isn't actually metafriending (in most cases. There are a handful of people that cross some lines now and then, but that's unrelated to my point.), but rather just standard player interaction. On Sybil, when you walk down a hallway you will pass by numerous people at once. Each person you pass is inconsequential, but in some minute way you're interacting with them, and player interaction is a big part of what drives this game. On Basil, there are significantly less people. Walking down a hall, you may see one or two other players passing you by. People are scarce, and therefore player interaction doesn't work the way it does on Sybil. Instead you have to find a person who tolerates you being around them and stick with them, because that is the only way to get an approximately equal amount of player interaction to the amount that you would get on Sybil. Other players on Basil have more weight as individuals and are more consequential by being in more limited supply. When you see a roboticist and a scientist kicking back and chatting in R&D every round, that's not necessarily metafriending. It's more than likely that they both chose a science role and are the only people there to interact with each other.

Also, to round back to the question presented in the title of the thread: No, we don't need Basil, but why would you even want to get rid of it? I fail to see any real reason to.

I dictate what basil is like because I pay for it.

NicholasRage wrote:I think a lot of people here, on both sides, are missing the point. The problem is that Basil was intended to be an overflow for Sybil when it hit the population cap. However, people aren't going to Basil, they're waiting on Sybil or they're going elsewhere or they're not playing at all. But they're not going to Basil. And whatever the reason is, it's a problem.

That reason is actually a two-part problem, it's perception and hostility. Basil is the "roleplay server" and to your average Sybil player that means Bay-style roleplay and that's bad so they'll go elsewhere. They only define roleplaying using that narrow view and refuse to accept that it could be anything else, since Basil's got that reputation it's automatically going to be shit. Basil's hostility largely comes from how Basil is treated, Sybil players come to Basil when they can't hack it in high pop and think that less people and more roleplay means nobody will stop their greytide shit. I'm sure that every single Basil regular has had a nice chat with the admins because the greytider got rightfully dunked and ahelped about it. Then the metagang and metacomms accusations come out when really some little shit managed to piss off the ten other people on the station. :l

Intended or not Basil's not just some overflow server anymore and likely this will never be the case again, trying to make it that way just fuels hostility and doesn't solve anything. You want people to stay? I'll reiterate what I said earlier: both servers need to stop acting like they're better than the other one.

Last night someone asked why don't people want to play on Basil.

The top reply was the playerbase. Clearly something is wrong in the perception of the players on Basil.

Well, it's the same reason for Sybil, no?

DemonFiren wrote:Well, it's the same reason for Sybil, no?

Yes, However the Sybil population accounts for pretty much 80%+ of our playerbase.

Tornadium wrote:Last night someone asked why don't people want to play on Basil.

The top reply was the playerbase. Clearly something is wrong in the perception of the players on Basil.

It doesn't help that ANY time someone brings up basil on sybil OOC, a bunch of memers start ranting about how shit it is, and full of erping metafriends.
Why would someone whos never been to basil want to go there when all they hear about it is what the shit stirrers (who have also never been on basil) say in sybil ooc?

lumipharon wrote:

Tornadium wrote:Last night someone asked why don't people want to play on Basil.

The top reply was the playerbase. Clearly something is wrong in the perception of the players on Basil.

It doesn't help that ANY time someone brings up basil on sybil OOC, a bunch of memers start ranting about how shit it is, and full of erping metafriends.
Why would someone whos never been to basil want to go there when all they hear about it is what the shit stirrers (who have also never been on basil) say in sybil ooc?

Well most of the people talking had played on basil and were talking about incidents they had.

Unless it was all made up of course.

I played in server 2 for a very long time. Unless all this shit cropped up in the past few months suddenly, then it's all just way overblown bullshit.

lumipharon wrote:I played in server 2 for a very long time. Unless all this shit cropped up in the past few months suddenly, then it's all just way overblown bullshit.

I played on Basil too, these issues always existed.

They aren't as much of a common occurrence as some people are led to believe but they do exist.

We do have problems (Rollo), yes, but not as many as people imply - when people say "ERPing metafriends" they really only mean Gotham and Francis.
Sybil, too, has problems of its own with the players - all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch, and with 60+ people per round, bad apples aren't hard to come by.

People who say "Sybil mainliners want to play Basil but are scared off by tales of evil metacliques" aren't being sensible. Remember all those times we had 3 servers at once? Remember how they caused Sybil to remain at it's usual pop and be totally unaffected?

People /like/ highpop, and people like lowpop.

Give names of people who are shit stirring in sybil ooc with personal experiences in #2.

If they were of any relevancy I would know their ic characters. If I don't, they're most likely completely irrelevant and just bullshitting.

Personally, I'm a fan of the middle-ground population count.

40-50 is my jam, and the time of day I choose to play, it tends to float there/just under it.

Basil never gets that high, so I don't go there.

BE THE CHANGE SERVER 2 NEEDS. So we can keep it. And I can go there when sybil is full.

ThanatosRa wrote:BE THE CHANGE SERVER 2 NEEDS. So we can keep it. And I can go there when sybil is full.

^

Also, there's a group of players who all like it and play on it and like playing on it. That's enough for me.

Clearly the soloution is to remove server names and have the banner randomly assign people to one of the servers so this argument meens nothing

Only if Basil switches to Box before hand.

I don't like metastation that much.

HahahHAHA no. Box a shit.

callanrockslol wrote:

Falamazeer wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:See it like this - if you remove Basil, we'll migrate over to Sybil and ruin your game with our arrpees. Sounds fair, right?

I don't want to outright shit on basil, but it's pretty much this, I enjoy basil existing because I don't want to deal with the basil archetypes in my favorite servers, Snooty elitist purist RP snobs who demand you interact with every thin watery sob story they want to write up.

Not saying that's all basil, but you guys can't pretend you don't know the type.
And the meta buddies too, because deny all you want, anyone walking in who isn't used to it like you guys are see's is a rampant blatant problem.

I love the elitist RP snobs, they are usually the worst at fights.

This is true, they were always the most fun to beat up and murder space back in the single server days.

ColonicAcid wrote:I don't really understand what you're coming up with here. Old #2 was around 40 players average every day and it was fine, basil isn't basil because of low player rounds, it's never been about that, it's about having more regular roleplay than sybil.

Another point, some people don't understand why I'm so salty about people throwing around meatfriends and metagangs. These people have 0 connections when #2 was at its prime, they have no reason to even talk about that shit. They weren't there, their anecdotes mean literal fucking nothing, especially when they're propagated in the shitfest that is sybil ooc. Some admins are also responsible for this shit stirring as the well, some were simply not here or not playing on #2 when it was at its prime.

Well... I was around at that time, and I actually mained on #2 so let me tell you my recollection of how things were.
At first it wasn't any more cliquey than server 0 was, the populations were largely similar in number and style (although #1 generally had a higher population of retards and newbies, which is why I mained on #2 - but I did switch between the two fairly often)
But, after only a few months it had gotten very very cliquey.
So much so that the security population had almost entirely been driven off because it was fucking awful arresting someone in one of these metagangs as as soon as you did the rest of their gang would come down and start causing bother, even going as far as breaking into the brig and fighting sec to break out their friend.
Then another few months later the general pop took a gigantic nose dive, because the admins had started clamping down on the metafriend issue (and if there weren't any issues then polices wouldn't have been written up), one of the bigger metagangs left to form their own server (Sigurd) - over a dozen people left for there. Funnily enough, I remember going to Sigard to check it out once or twice, where I was greeted with a warm "Malkevin, what the fuck is he doing here??" by ColonicAcid - yep, not cliquey at all.
And so, a server that started off with a slightly lower population (on account of it being a different server that people were too lazy to change their bookmark to), had a small chunk driven off (sec pop), then a larger chunk driven off (gen pop that weren't part of metagroups and couldn't stand the cliquey nature of server 2), and then had most of the rest of server 2 migrate to another new server - which leads us to today's ghost town (yes I am aware Basil has had a larger population recently, but I suspect most of these are summer fags and so Basil pop will nose dive again once school is back in and their mummy's won't let them stay up late to play spessmens - this will also happen to Sybil too.)

Scones wrote:I'm like 90% sure Basil is there for overflow and always was designed to be overflow, not "offer a different experience". A server gains literally nothing by hosting a separate group for a minority that behaves in a way that chases off the majority.

It's stupid, take a look at Sybil OOC when we've hit the cap. People say they're going to play SS13 elsewhere til a slot opens here, but they sure as hell don't go to Basil, because it's not a /tg/station experience.

You should be 100% sure.

It literally was made to be an alternative place to play when server 1 was overpop (we were regularly hitting 100 players at the time) or you died, or whatever. If it had been designed to support a different playstyle then the ruleset and codebase would've been different.
Server 3 was designed to be different, which ran a different ruleset as Sigyn, and a different codebase as mini-station.


BUT! What if we actually DID make Server 2 a completely separate server for a different play style?
Now hear me but you think I'm crazy.

I'm not talking about giving server 2 to the Basilers, because to be frank: there are half a dozen ss13 servers out there catering to their playstyle (hell, Sigurd was empty last I checked - they could go squat there), and if I'm to be honest they are the cancer that has turned tg into a hugb0x (not that the current Sybil playerbase isn't largely a cancer itself - somehow its managed to become an even bigger Idiocracy than it was two years ago), and its pretty daft running an entire server for their small playerbase.

But what if Server 2 became the TG Classic server, for those us that are man enough to deal with the low rules, low admin interference, rough and tumble playstyle of old.
The low rules rounds have apparently gone down a treat when ran on sybil, a large number of people actually enjoying them, and sybil will still exist for those bedwetters that still require admins to hold their hands when they're being fucktards.

I like the casual implication that all the "halp I ded nerf" came from basil player demand.

Most of the 'QOL' updates that assfucked balance came from themselves though.

He assumed something, and like majority of assumptions, it was not even close to the truth.
Look at feedback, tell me all the "remove x" and what players made them and see what server they go to.
Hint: it's not basil.

Assumptions? I was there arguing with them on a daily basis you fuck knuckle.

I'm talking policy not code

The biggest culprits for policy being as weak as it is are hbl and pandarsenic, both from server2.
In fact the majority of admins we got at the time were from and admined almost solely on server2.

Yes the Yinadele admins were all from #2. Nobody is arguing that.

The yinadele era was also 3 years ago, and back then it was the "rough and tumble" way of playing ss13 that you mentioned you wanted, so I don't really understand your point here?