Trialmin Review: Sweaterkittens

[TehSteveo]

It's been over two months since they have been on the .txt.

We need feedback on how you believe they are doing as an admin and whether we should promote, demote, or extend their trial.

[danno]

I'm not a fan of the thought both behind the elyina note, and the ideals it inspired in some people as well
but other than that SK seems pretty cool overall

[Wyzack]

p much what Danno said

[bandit]

For better and for worse, takes being an admin more seriously than 90% of the current team. My one piece of advice would be to perhaps work on taking things personally that aren't meant that way.

[oranges]

no sense of humour, would be a bad admin because they take it too seriously

[Armhulen]

no sense of humour, would be a bad admin because they take it too seriously

would you rather have Sweaterkittens, or dannno

[oranges]

dannno

[Armhulen]

Ouch.

[Sweaterkittens]

no sense of humour

WHEW that's a good laugh this early in the morning, thank you.


I don't take it personally, Armhulen. Oranges is just salty because I got him kicked out of #adminbus and I don't put up with his shit.

[Armhulen]

no sense of humour

WHEW that's a good laugh this early in the morning, thank you.


I don't take it personally, Armhulen. Oranges is just salty because I got him kicked out of #adminbus and I don't put up with his shit.

Okay, that's also pretty hilarious

[Wyzack]

At the end of the day this is a game, taking it too seriously is a real problem

[oranges]

At the end of the day this is a game, taking it too seriously is a real problem

Well I'm glad some admins can see the point I'm making even though sweaterkittens deflected with unrelated things.

edit: and for your information sweaterkittens you had nothing to do with me being kicked out. Saeg booted me because I annoyed him.

[Qbopper]

ITT: you dislike me so I'm going to post negative things in your trialmin review?

Anyways pretty much agree with the first post, has slipped up but is cool otherwise and the silicon rewrite they did is awesome, +1

[oranges]

Why would I not post concerns I have about an admin in their trialmin feedback thread?

I find you coming in and commenting on that highly ironic considering you two seem quite close.

[Qbopper]

Why would I not post concerns I have about an admin in their trialmin feedback thread?

I find you coming in and commenting on that highly ironic considering you two seem quite close.

I don't actually interact with SK much, we just both seem to take issue with you. I don't see how "they don't take my antagonizing them nicely" equals "too serious, bad admin material". That's a bit inflammatory but you know for a fact it's true

[danno]

Come on don't lash out at people's concerns even if you don't like them
that's what the thread is for, christ sake

[bandit]

if anything we need more admins that take the game seriously and fewer ones who use it as an excuse to meme

[Sweaterkittens]

Hahaha, the reason I didn't respond to the "point" you made, oranges, is because you have some serious personal issues with me that were brought on when I started taking a stance against you shitstirring and abusing your power. I'm not going to waste my time and energy writing a thoughtful, comprehensive response when you're going to ignore it anyway.


@Danno
Oranges "concerns" are built entirely around the fact that I'm one of the only admins who doesn't put up with him antagonizing people and being shitty, not with anything regarding the way I actually administrate.

[Qbopper]

Come on don't lash out at people's concerns even if you don't like them
that's what the thread is for, christ sake

Fair enough, but I don't think his concern is valid

this is a bad place to have the argument, though, so I'll leave it at that

[Doctor Pork]

Tackled the can of worms that is silicon policy and emerged unscathed.

Great guy, cool to admin with, generally nice when dealing with ahelps. +1.

[oranges]

Hahaha, the reason I didn't respond to the "point" you made, oranges, is because you have some serious personal issues with me.

I don't have any issues with you, you just seem to take everything very seriously, this I guess only makes my point further because you seem to think I actually dislike you with a sheer hatred or something

[danno]

From an outside perspective here, it looks like you're trying to trivialize the concerns of someone by just saying "lmao he salty" to be honest

just the two cents of a person uninvolved in the dispute

[onleavedontatme]

Maybe "too seriously" is the wrong way to phrase it, but I feel like they view themselves at war against the playerbase sometimes and they seem to take it pretty personally when there is disagreements over the rules in adminbus.

They're one of my favourite people in the community but I think they want a ruleset that is way more "high RP" and if they're this vocally fed up with the players before their trial is even over then I think burnout is going to hit them really hard later on.

So I don't think they're a terrible person or an abusive admin, but whoever the next headmins are need to decide this on whether or not they want more "Rule 10/IC issue" as far as server direction goes, because Sweaterkittens does not.

Promoting them or not should be much more about server direction than them as a person.

[Qbopper]

Maybe "too seriously" is the wrong way to phrase it, but I feel like they view themselves at war against the playerbase sometimes and they seem to take it pretty personally when there is disagreements over the rules in adminbus.

They're one of my favourite people in the community but I think they want a ruleset that is way more "high RP" and if they're this vocally fed up with the players before their trial is even over then I think burnout is going to hit them really hard later on.

So I don't think they're a terrible person or an abusive admin, but whoever the next headmins are need to decide this on whether or not they want more "Rule 10/IC issue" as far as server direction goes, because Sweaterkittens does not.

Promoting them or not should be much more about server direction than them as a person.

pretty reasonable response, I think everybody can agree with this to some extent

[Sweaterkittens]

That's a fair point Danno, but I assure you that's not the case. For instance, I didn't try to downplay you bringing up the Elyina note or the other administrators saying I take the role seriously, because both of those things are true. That note was probably my biggest mistake, and I don't discount that. Overall it's given me a lot to think about, and in a lot of ways helped me improve as an administrator, as well as cause me to really think about the purpose of leaving a note. I do take my job as an admin seriously, because even if it's just volunteer work for fun, I believe if you're going to do something you should do it right.

but take it from someone involved in the dispute with oranges, lmao he salty.


@Kor
I don't disagree with anything you've said, barring the High-RP ruleset. I enjoy roleplaying, and I enjoy other people roleplaying, but I certainly don't want to turn /tg/ into Bay. As I said though, I don't argue any of your other points.

[danno]

If you recognize the elyina note as a mistake then I don't really have any further feedback
that's the only concern I can personally muster

[PKPenguin321]

i've said it before somewhere but i have been wary of sweaterkittens for mainly two reasons.

- from what i can gather they've advocated for a lot of stuff in the past that contributes to a safer, less chaotic game. while that may be fun for them, i feel this is against the spirit of the game (at least on our servers) and not what we should really be looking for.

- they're vaguely reminiscent of judicator, not a bad admin per se and a lot of people liked him but he would always go off on people for even slight disagreements (or when he cant take a joke). i saw it when they kicked out oranges from adminbus because "he banters with me too much" and i'm seeing it sort of now in this thread with the WHEWs and accusations of oranges being salty. judicator got deadminned for this and i don't want another case like that.

things i like!:

- yeah you're taking stuff seriously and while i think that it can be bad (especially being unable to take a joke/criticism) it also has good points. youre a very professional guy who knows what he's doing for the most part.

- you've proven to be better at policy than most (see the silicon policy rewrite). not a common trait!

- i think your heart is in the right place, you have really good intentions in what you do (in other words: not a bad guy or deliberate asshole like some people). while i disagree with your attitude towards criticism etc and the direction that i perceive that you'd like for the game, i still think you have a lot of potential.

overall, i'd like to see sweaterkitten's trial extended. i want to see more of him before passing final judgement, because while i am heavily skeptical of him, i think that he does have a lot of potential, and more time under the wings of full admins could help them fly a bit straighter, you know? i'd really like to see him succeed long term.

[Sometinyprick]

I personally don't get his dislike of oranges but that's irrelevant really, otherwise he takes a really extensive approach to investigating ahelps and I haven't seen anything other than the elyina note which worries me or is indicative off someone with bad judgement.

[Aloraydrel]

Might have autism like everyone else but it's the good type of autism. Haven't had any problems from the time i've seen him online tbqh.

[NikNakFlak]

- from what i can gather they've advocated for a lot of stuff in the past that contributes to a safer, less chaotic game. while that may be fun for them, i feel this is against the spirit of the game (at least on our servers) and not what we should really be looking for.

This seems more like an opinion on server direction. Our server is low roleplay, so as long as he isn't enforcing high roleplay via punishment and what not, there isn't anything wrong with this. There are a few admins who were a bit of greytiders who admins like sweaters and myself tend to disagree with heavily about how they feel about server direction.

- they're vaguely reminiscent of judicator, not a bad admin per se and a lot of people liked him but he would always go off on people for even slight disagreements (or when he cant take a joke). i saw it when they kicked out oranges from adminbus because "he banters with me too much" and i'm seeing it sort of now in this thread with the WHEWs and accusations of oranges being salty. judicator got deadminned for this and i don't want another case like that.

I'm not sure how you can even compare judicator to sweaterkittens. If you think judicator was "not a bad admin per se", then we already have such a difference of opinion. Judicator spammed buttons, shitty events, and bad ban after bad ban. Judicator back tracked a ton as well. This is the reason judicator got deadminned, not for any reason you are really stating above. The admin complaints that he was deadminned for are easily viewable and they tended to be more about Judicator's ingame administrator behavior. Sweaterkittens isn't the only one who has issues with oranges, and oranges does antagonize and rile up administration. At one point, MSO removed him from adminbus, not saegrimr or sweaterkittens. It's a little bit more complicated than "be banters with too much". Simplifying it down like that seems a bit misleading. I don't know if oranges is salty or not, but I'm on good terms with both sweaters and oranges, and I can see where both of them come from, and I don't really think either of them is completely right, or completely wrong. All in all, I think your statement is an extremely awful and misleading judgement of sweaterkittens' administration. Judicator really has absolutely no relevance to sweaterkittens.

- yeah you're taking stuff seriously and while i think that it can be bad (especially being unable to take a joke/criticism) it also has good points. youre a very professional guy who knows what he's doing for the most part.

Seeing as we have had a bit of a problem with admins not taking things seriously enough lately, I fail to see how this is in anyway bad. We need some serious people to balance out all the admins who vomit memes and never take anything seriously ever.

- you've proven to be better at policy than most (see the silicon policy rewrite). not a common trait!

I agree.

I don't have much else to say. Sweaterkittens is one of my friends and so is oranges. I think sweaters should be very careful about enforcing roleplay standards that don't exist on this server, but besides that, there doesn't seem to be any issues. Vote promote.

[PKPenguin321]

i was trying to be light describing jud because a very blunt description followed by a direct comparison would be shitting all over my guy sweaterkittens here

the seriousness comment was misinterpreted. professionalism =/= seriousness in this case. when i he takes stuff seriously im saying they react to bad feedback/jokes too violently. it's ok to be professional but you also have to be able to tolerate a joke or take genuine criticism now and then.

[Haevacht]

Activity seems to have decreased, no longer hangs out in coderbus probably because oranges is there despite apparently helping goof write goofmed (which is a terrible idea).

Super serious. Doesn't put up with any banter. And at least used to midi only slightly less than kev.

[Danowar]

I haven't seen him in action as an admin all that much, but he's always been pleasant to deal with.

[Oldman Robustin]

Extending my ban for appealing the ban is like a cardinal sin of adminning.

But we all make mistakes, I think they are willing to learn from those mistakes and I'd rather have someone take the position seriously (and learn and grow as a result) over someone who doesn't make egregious decisions but generally doesn't put much effort into their duties.

[NikNakFlak]

extending your ban wasn't a mistake tbh

[Arianya]

Interacted a few times. My memory is hazy but I believe its been on the receiving end of a bwoink a couple of times for questionable sec stuff, they've always listened to my side and weighed both sides of it, as far as I can tell.

Extending my ban for appealing the ban is like a cardinal sin of adminning.

As I recall, this was during the period before the admin policy thread and before Pear made a ruling on the matter, so while you can use that to reflect on them, bear in mind that at the time it probably wasn't seen as a "sin".

[Sweaterkittens]

Since things are winding down, I figured I'd just touch on a couple of points I've been thinking about to wrap things up before a headmin makes a decision.

Regarding my absence from coderbus and general activity decrease recently, which Haevacht brought up - I've been busier lately and spending a little less time on SS13. And with the time I have had recently, I've been trying to spend it on the server rather than coding and hanging out in coderbus. I still have the sprites for that new cyborg module on deck, and I'll eventually find the time to hang out with you guys and work on getting it implemented.

I've noticed a few people saying that I don't like banter or that I don't have a sense of humour, which is frankly bizarre to me. I've always been a fan of a good-natured barbs between friends, and while I take my role here seriously, I'm not the fun police. What I have no tolerance for is people who aren't close to each other being genuinely malicious towards one another, or making jokes in poor taste, and then excusing it with "It's just bantz!". Perhaps it's a cultural thing, since this is sort of a 4chan server and that attitude is really common there. However, in the circles I frequented while I was growing up, that sort of thing was considered "being a dick", not "banter", and that's how I tend to see it. To be completely forthcoming, my opinion on that is unlikely to change.

If anyone has any last questions for me before a decision gets made, please let me know!

[ShadowDimentio]

Maybe "too seriously" is the wrong way to phrase it, but I feel like they view themselves at war against the playerbase sometimes and they seem to take it pretty personally when there is disagreements over the rules in adminbus.

They're one of my favourite people in the community but I think they want a ruleset that is way more "high RP" and if they're this vocally fed up with the players before their trial is even over then I think burnout is going to hit them really hard later on.

I'm fine with an admin who thinks the server should lean more towards high RP, but actively pushing the rules that way while the playerbase is so stridently low RP as they are currently will only end badly.

[Sweaterkittens]

I'm fine with an admin who thinks the server should lean more towards high RP, but actively pushing the rules that way while the playerbase is so stridently low RP as they are currently will only end badly.

As I mentioned above, I'm not trying to push the rules that way. I'll just quote my old post:

I don't disagree with anything you've said, barring the High-RP ruleset. I enjoy roleplaying, and I enjoy other people roleplaying, but I certainly don't want to turn /tg/ into Bay.

Honest to god, I don't know where that came from. I encourage roleplay but I've never done anything to push the rules towards a HRP ruleset.

[ShadowDimentio]

Then we have no problems there.

[bman]

goodmin

good ingame, good memes, knows how to VV, fucked up but owned it.

personal problems? no problem.

[imblyings]

promoted.