Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

(Mainly the wiki)
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RaveRadbury
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Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by RaveRadbury » #616022

The wiki is in need of some love.

The new player guide is in need of a redo and a lot of our pages teach players bad behavior.

I've spoken with community members about it here and there, but I think we would benefit from having a thread open for more organized and central discussion.

Are there things you'd like to improve on the wiki?
What pages are most in need of attention?
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EuSouAFazenda
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by EuSouAFazenda » #616023

The general items page needs some work.
Some stuff doesn't mention their main use - crayons don't mention you can use them to write, for example. Other stuff has flavor text that really shouldn't be there like the camera and the Space Cleaner really can't figure out if it's talking about the liquid or about the bottle; it both says to not be confused with the liquid from chemistry and how to mix water and ammonia to make more of it.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by Misdoubtful » #616024

Honestly I think just comparing it to the state of other big ss13 wiki's will be the best tool for seeing what needs to be improved. From custom guides (and just more guides in general), to all inclusive writing, lore, more information on what a job gets and easy gimmicks, documented common mistakes, idk, there is a lot. Not to mention wiki's that get updated with new content when that new content gets merged. The biggest issue is how little amount of functionality the wiki actually covers. Like the blurb on secways not telling people you can stuff a banana in it, how pet AI works, that you can tame cows. Ashwalkers hasn't been updated on the wiki since 2019.

It isn't a one man overnight project. The new player guide being up to date is an obvious one, but no one can keep all the new features and changes regularly coming out up to date on their own.

Maybe a wiki team would be a better way of solving and mitigating this.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by Rohen_Tahir » #616025

Pretty much all the x_Items pages are very outdated, low quality and do not contain enough information. Out of those, Research Items is probably the worst. Also, those pages are all(?) erraneously categorized as templates, probably due to category tags outside of <noinclude> on some template page.

Additional Access fields are commonly misused, probably caused by people not knowing what the term means. Someone should probably fix this.

Template:Delete does not appear to exist. It should probably be created.

Edit:
Misdoubtful wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:46 amlore
Someone should probably put a link to the lore repo on the Wiki sidebar.
Last edited by Rohen_Tahir on Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by Farquaar » #616026

Zeroing-in on the "a lot of our pages teach players bad behavior" remark:

The wiki isn't supposed to be straight-laced and boring. It's fun to read, and more than a few jokes are cracked here and there. I know that I've thrown in a bunch of my own during the countless hours I've spent editing the wiki. Looking back to when I first heard about SS13, it was through reading the wiki that my interest was piqued. It portrayed the game like a fun, crazy, and chaotic experience. Lo and behold, I downloaded BYOND, logged onto Sybil, and found it to be just as it was promised.

Do a few wiki pages make reference to what might be considered lite-grief/powergame? Maybe. But it's those experiences that make the game interesting, and what keeps bringing me back after all these years. The advertisements match the product, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

That said, if you have any particular examples of pages that "teach bad behaviour", I'd like to hear it so it can be discussed in detail.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by EuSouAFazenda » #616376

Box (not Icebox, regular Box) is still the default image in most location pages.

Tram's list of locations is entirely empty outside of Xenobio and Citology Lab.

Kilo doesn't even have a list of locations
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by Mothblocks » #616380

The new player guide is really, really awful. Not only does it suggest picking prisoner, but it gives you an insane amount of information that you won't need right away. A lot of our wiki is like this--it's veteran players flexing what they know, and not trying to teach new players.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #616394

Mothblocks wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:25 am The new player guide is really, really awful. Not only does it suggest picking prisoner, but it gives you an insane amount of information that you won't need right away. A lot of our wiki is like this--it's veteran players flexing what they know, and not trying to teach new players.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by RaveRadbury » #616489

Farquaar wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:54 am That said, if you have any particular examples of pages that "teach bad behaviour", I'd like to hear it so it can be discussed in detail.
Here's a recent ban appeal where someone cites advice they found on the wiki.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by Farquaar » #616495

RaveRadbury wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:21 pm
Farquaar wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:54 am That said, if you have any particular examples of pages that "teach bad behaviour", I'd like to hear it so it can be discussed in detail.
Here's a recent ban appeal where someone cites advice they found on the wiki.
Seems to me like he played a stupid game and won a stupid prize. He knew what he was doing: trying to detonate a bomb that he saw someone holding. Given how blatant of a rulebreak blowing up the station as non-antag is, I doubt that it was an innocent misunderstanding caused by a supposedly obtuse and newb-unfriendly wiki.

An equivalent situation would be if I read this passage and extrapolated from it that I'm allowed to murder the chef when he leave his door open.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by cacogen » #616618

Just put the latest metastrategies in so we aren't lying to players that their toil matters
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by EuSouAFazenda » #616850

Officers may go into the break room alone, and make themselves vulnerable to attack; reducing the number of officers may help even when they aren't your target.
Lawyer's page, near the bottom on the traitoring section. I've looked through the rules pages and while I didn't find anything specifically stating this to be murderboning, "kill a random cop because they might not come after you later on" isn't really something that should be encouraged imo.
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Re: Is the wiki setting up new players for success?

Post by Farquaar » #616862

EuSouAFazenda wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:47 pm
Officers may go into the break room alone, and make themselves vulnerable to attack; reducing the number of officers may help even when they aren't your target.
Lawyer's page, near the bottom on the traitoring section. I've looked through the rules pages and while I didn't find anything specifically stating this to be murderboning, "kill a random cop because they might not come after you later on" isn't really something that should be encouraged imo.
Thinning out security is a valid strategy for completing your objectives, even on MRP. You are allowed to kill people who aren't your assassination target so long as it's not indiscriminate killing.
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