Tutorial Rewrite

(Mainly the wiki)
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Qbopper
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Tutorial Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #267672

Since my admin candidacy began, I've introduced three people to SS13 alone, not even including the much greater number I've shared the game with since I first started playing (looking at you shaps). In all of these cases, I've asked the person in question to open up the wiki and look at the new player guide, before realizing it was essentially useless at teaching them the basic concepts of how to play. It's a classic case of "do X and Y" without telling you what X or Y is for or why X or Y works. It also vomits up a giant ass diagram of the HUD immediately with no context as to why any of these elements are relevant.

Other issues I have with it:
  • It commits the cardinal sin of wiki articles by using statements like "trust me", "we highly recommend", stuff like that, in addition to in general being poorly formatted and kinda gross to look at
  • Does a terrible job of explaining what the game is about with a quick summary - "Space Station 13 is a 2D multiplayer space station simulator with fully destructable environments" is not only spelled incorrectly, it makes it sound like some kinda scifi Battlefield in 2D. The page located here does a decent job of conveying the concept, but people browsing the "how to play" guide are going to want a quick summary (and trust me, getting people to read things beyond what's necessary is a giant pain - anyone that does is a rarity)
  • It asks new players to read the rules, which is fine and necessary, but if a new player continues past the main rules to precedents/anything else on the page, they'll be overwhelmed quickly
  • As mentioned above, the guide suffers from telling you what to do and not explaining why - the exercises do little in the way of helping you understand what's going on or why things work the way they do.
  • The guide assumes that everything on the station is fine and you can follow the exercises to the letter, and we all know that's rarely the case - there's been a few times I've seen an obviously new player struggling to put on a new pair of shoes without realizing they're suffocating, bumping around in the dark without a light source, things like that
I'd like to rewrite the page to cover the game in a more comprehensive manner for new players, but also keep things concise. My thinking was to have the necessary information on the page, but use the new expandable boxes for info that isn't immediately critical but is good to know. For example, in the section where the guide describes what the role select screen is, it could have "Pick Assistant for now" be the main text, then some additional info in a box explaining what the screen does and why there's so many roles. I haven't actually started to write anything, but that's just a quick example of what I mean.

I don't think anyone would be opposed, but I'd rather ask beforehand if it's cool with everyone instead of just writing up a big ass guide and expecting it to get added (it's not locked, who knew) sit there unchanged and unchallenged.

EDIT: I wrote this thread for the admin only board, but since the new player guide isn't really as big a deal as that silicon rewrite there's no need to really keep it to that board

I'll probably end up rewriting the guide since it's unmoderated even if people tell me they don't see the need, but if anyone has any criticism/ideas feel free to let me know, I haven't started yet

EDIT 2: I'll keep the WIP guide on my user page
Last edited by Qbopper on Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by factoryman942 » #267737

ok
that's a good thing

Also, the writing task on the current page was confusing as fuck when I first started. Probably because the pen/paper bin are behind a windoor and/or door which are ID-locked to dissuade greytide or something
idk
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #267771

factoryman942 wrote:ok
that's a good thing

Also, the writing task on the current page was confusing as fuck when I first started. Probably because the pen/paper bin are behind a windoor and/or door which are ID-locked to dissuade minor IC crime or something
idk
yeah, exactly, the current guide is terribad for things like this

They want you to just look around and find a paper bin, but the first one you'll see is likely behind a secure area, so that just causes confusion

I'm thinking I'll have specific info for each map in rotation for things that require it so that people can actually follow the guide and not have it be super vague

EDIT: I need to go to bed but first section is up on my user page, post thoughts (if anyone is reading this)
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by factoryman942 » #267961

Images are kinda big, and interrupt the flow of text. Ideally they'd be smaller, or expandable or something, and on the side of the page so the text can flow around it.

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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #267974

factoryman942 wrote:Images are kinda big, and interrupt the flow of text. Ideally they'd be smaller, or expandable or something, and on the side of the page so the text can flow around it.

Detective guy is cool
I approve
I was thinking that myself, I'll have to figure out how to get the set up the way I'd like. Probably can use thumbnails

EDIT: still really not happy with the image layout, going to have to come back to it in the future/ask for help
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by bandit » #268298

I'm also pretty sure a lot of it is outdated. like, does it cover the fact that you are buckled in the arrivals shuttle now? (fucking terrible change, btw, new players always have issues with buckling)
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by BeeSting12 » #268312

On that note, adding something about buckling would be nice in the guide. It's probably one of the most asked new player questions in OOC.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by TribeOfBeavers » #268317

It would help to mention something about rest, as well. It would make surgeries and cramming a bunch of people into an escape pod a little better when new players are involved.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #268335

I definitely intend to cover concepts like that, considering those are so commonly misunderstood/unknown because the current guide is dogshit

Also, if you look at my user page, the expandable text boxes seem to be broken? If you edit the page and show the preview they work as intended - not sure what's up with that, maybe it's a user page quirk?

EDIT: now they work????????????????????????
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Jordie0608 » #268349

Refresh page cache (Ctrl-f5) when fiddling with tabs and expanding boxes to properly update them.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Bawhoppennn » #268460

The new player guide needs to teach you the essence of the game, not directly on what to do.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #268588

Bawhoppennn wrote:The new player guide needs to teach you the essence of the game, not directly on what to do.
This is a good point, I plan on having a section after the actual "how to play" that addresses this

The current guide kinda just says "go play cargo tech or something i dunno" which probably contributes to new players giving up

EDIT: Ctrl F5 doesn't work to fix the boxes, it seems
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by factoryman942 » #268725

encourage the new players to play engineer
create a generation of people who know how to set up sm

:honkman:
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #268736

factoryman942 wrote:encourage the new players to play engineer
create a generation of people who know how to set up sm

:honkman:
I've stopped a few times and though "jesus christ this is the first thing a new player will read

I can literally shape the mindset of new players from here on out"

I mean not really but the wording I use can and will have at least some influence on people who're new
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by BeeSting12 » #331073

are you still working on this
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #331080

haven't had the chance for the same reasons budgetstation has been on hold, and I move into my dorm on the 2nd of sept so it'll be a bit

i'm hitting a huge mental block though because I don't know how I can effectively introduce concepts with the wide variety of maps we have in an easy way - I could write up a guide specific to each map that addresses basic concepts, which was my original goal, but I'd have to take a lot of pictures and shit and it's a lot of work

I didn't want to do a guide similar to the current one where it's very vague and shit because it has to contend with multiple maps so it doesn't address anything beyond "go find some clothes and put them on" - that's not really helpful because it doesn't provide a new player with explanations of the inventory systems or why things work that way, it just tells you the steps to put on a jumpsuit

ideally I want the guide to explain important gameplay concepts beyond the basic controls in a nice way but it's difficult to think up how I could do that - this has been in the back of my mind for weeks but between rl shit (that makes it difficult to get on and admin, let alone work on this/budgetstation) and the above writer's block I have no idea how to go about it, so when I get a chance I may just have to suck it up and do that map specific guide for each layout

the rewrite is still up on my user talk page and it should be open to edit, so if anyone has any good ideas they can add them/make a post here
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #331175

I really like this guide. It's clear , direct, and stylishly put together.

My only real gripe is that you cheerfully tell everyone... the wrong controls. New players start without Hotkey mode on, and if they follow your directions for keybondings and movement they're stuffed.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #331239

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I really like this guide. It's clear , direct, and stylishly put together.

My only real gripe is that you cheerfully tell everyone... the wrong controls. New players start without Hotkey mode on, and if they follow your directions for keybondings and movement they're stuffed.
I'm 99% certain the guide tells a new player to enable hotkeys right away

I could be wrong though and maybe that's on my todo

but yeah, thanks, I really appreciate that

EDIT: ok yeah

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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by ColonicAcid » #331261

tfw i learnt how to play entirely without ever using hotkeys and now using hotkeys just doesnt feel right.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #331400

yeah I originally used normal controls so I can relate

I know it's a bit of a contested topic but I think hotkeys are overall a lot more accessible to a new player

WASD is usually easier for people and you don't have to explain the quirks of the command bar and why sometimes it doesn't do what you want it to, you just press T or O for say/OOC and that's it
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by XDTM » #331628

For my part, i'm starting to write up indepth about game mechanics; i already wrote up the https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Health page, and i'm going to add Status effects for stuns and such, differences between complex and simple mobs, how chemicals work, and so on.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #331645

XDTM wrote:For my part, i'm starting to write up indepth about game mechanics; i already wrote up the https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Health page, and i'm going to add Status effects for stuns and such, differences between complex and simple mobs, how chemicals work, and so on.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by John_Oxford » #332094

critcism and corrections on whats already there

"There's no difference between clothing/backpack options other than appearance, so pick what you think looks best."

this is incorrect, dufflebags slow but have more space, normal backpacks are normal backpacks, and i think leather satchels has some bullshit about having less space? maybe? correct me if im wrong

you're correct about clothing however.

"Attacking other crewmembers without any reason. This is only okay if you're an antagonist, and you will ne notified when you're chosen to be one."

spelling error

"(The numbers in brackets next to a job show the current number of that role - a zero means there are no players with that job in the game. When you click on the job you want, you'll be brought to the station onboard the arrival shuttle."

rephrasing: "The numbers in the brackets next to the job title show the current number of players who have been assigned that job for the round, if there is a zero inside the brackets, no one has been assigned to that job for the round. When you click on the job you want, you'll be brought to the station via the arrivals shuttle. The arrivals shuttle will start in transit, be sure not to unbuckle yourself until it comes to a stop"

it looks good
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #332096

John_Oxford wrote:critcism and corrections on whats already there

"There's no difference between clothing/backpack options other than appearance, so pick what you think looks best."

this is incorrect, dufflebags slow but have more space, normal backpacks are normal backpacks, and i think leather satchels has some bullshit about having less space? maybe? correct me if im wrong

satchels are cosmetic, I use leather satchels - are dufflebags selectable at character customization?

you're correct about clothing however.

"Attacking other crewmembers without any reason. This is only okay if you're an antagonist, and you will ne notified when you're chosen to be one."

spelling error

I don't mind if people fix these as long as they make it a minor edit/say what they changed

"(The numbers in brackets next to a job show the current number of that role - a zero means there are no players with that job in the game. When you click on the job you want, you'll be brought to the station onboard the arrival shuttle."

rephrasing: "The numbers in the brackets next to the job title show the current number of players who have been assigned that job for the round, if there is a zero inside the brackets, no one has been assigned to that job for the round. When you click on the job you want, you'll be brought to the station via the arrivals shuttle. The arrivals shuttle will start in transit, be sure not to unbuckle yourself until it comes to a stop"

probably a good change, will reword that section

it looks good

ty
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Lazengann » #332199

If you drink the angel potion, a backpack will be unequipped and you can't wear backpacks any more. You can, however, wear satchels as they don't get in the way of the wings.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by BeeSting12 » #332205

@Qbopper
Yeah duffel bags are selectable as a character customization option.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Armhulen » #332211

Lazengann wrote:If you drink the angel potion, a backpack will be unequipped and you can't wear backpacks any more. You can, however, wear satchels as they don't get in the way of the wings.
fuck satchel wearing binches
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #332343

Lazengann wrote:If you drink the angel potion, a backpack will be unequipped and you can't wear backpacks any more. You can, however, wear satchels as they don't get in the way of the wings.
neat, the more you know, but I'll probably just say "in 99% of cases"
BeeSting12 wrote:@Qbopper
Yeah duffel bags are selectable as a character customization option.
fug, good to know, ty
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Lazengann wrote:If you drink the angel potion, a backpack will be unequipped and you can't wear backpacks any more. You can, however, wear satchels as they don't get in the way of the wings.
fuck satchel wearing binches
wew

anyways to whoever has been editing the page: I appreciate it but I reverted a change because honestly I really didn't like some of the writing style, and it changed some existing sentences to flow worse than they did before for some reason

I did keep good stuff like the hotkey image and shit but yeah please don't take it personally
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by Slignerd » #333349

This thread should've been titled "New New Player Guide".
It would appear that I'm a high RP weeb who hates roleplay and anime.
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Re: New Player Guide Rewrite

Post by kosmos » #334833

Qbopper wrote:anyways to whoever has been editing the page: I appreciate it but I reverted a change because honestly I really didn't like some of the writing style, and it changed some existing sentences to flow worse than they did before for some reason

I did keep good stuff like the hotkey image and shit but yeah please don't take it personally
None taken since english isn't my first language. If you didn't already notice I copied your rewrite to the official new player -page since I'm impatient and it was already much better than the old one. You should update that page instead.
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Re: Tutorial Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #334857

oh, shit, okay, that works

I'm still adjusting to uni so it'll probably be a little longer until i can start genuine work on it again unfortunately
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Re: Tutorial Rewrite

Post by The Clowns Pocket » #338233

Does a terrible job of explaining what the game is about with a quick summary - "Space Station 13 is a 2D multiplayer space station simulator with fully destructable environments" is not only spelled incorrectly, it makes it sound like some kinda scifi Battlefield in 2D.
This is going to be a problem because the games quite a few different things to different people. Certainly anything else is better then this discriptor, but I haven't the foggiest how to describe SS13 in one sentance.
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Re: Tutorial Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #338322

The Clowns Pocket wrote:
Does a terrible job of explaining what the game is about with a quick summary - "Space Station 13 is a 2D multiplayer space station simulator with fully destructable environments" is not only spelled incorrectly, it makes it sound like some kinda scifi Battlefield in 2D.
This is going to be a problem because the games quite a few different things to different people. Certainly anything else is better then this discriptor, but I haven't the foggiest how to describe SS13 in one sentance.
"Space Station 13 is a multiplayer sandbox that has a heavy focus on player interaction."

that's what I put down in the rewrite and it's much more accurate
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Re: Tutorial Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #338324

also I haven't been on in a while, is the map selection on the page still accurate?

edit: managed to squeeze in some minor changes before I go off for the day
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Re: Tutorial Rewrite

Post by Qbopper » #346518

hey future qbopper

yeah, that's right, i'm talking to you

the hud sprites got updated, update the guide you shit
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Github Username: qbmax32
Location: in your walls

Re: Tutorial Rewrite

Post by Qbmax32 » #346590

You called?
my admin feedback thread


quotes
Spoiler:
wesoda25 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:02 am Qbmax32 is quite literally one of the dumbest individuals I have ever had the misfortune of coming into contact with. He has zero redeemable traits, and honestly I have to suppress my gag reflex every time he shows up in a conversation.
Malkraz wrote:YES
DRINK THE PISS QB
angelstarri wrote:qbmax is a retard
imsxz wrote:mythic please stop you’ve hit rock bottom and you KEEP DIGGING
deedubya wrote:I'll defend to the death your right to scream "NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER" on a constant basis, but I'll also equally defend the right of people to call you a fuckin' pillock for doing it.
datorangebottle wrote:what, not having to act like customer service in a volunteer customer service position?

Here's a rebuttal: you're literally in a customer service slash celebrity position. Volunteer or not.
Malkraz wrote:can you stop posting this shit
Nalzul wrote:Fuck Blob (can you imagine how hot it would be to be gangbanged by a bunch of blobbernauts, the blob, and spores)
Wyzack wrote:qbmax your pathetic display of abhorrent burgercraft has brought shame onto the omnivores
Plapatin wrote:i AM the senate
BONERMASTER wrote:I am a big thinker, and it would only be logical if my character had a big head as well. And glasses. Because only people that think, wear glasses.
feem wrote:i tried to send canisters of urine to the station but ended up turning all oxygen into urine and breaking lavaland and also breathing
Anonmare wrote:Each post in this thread can't settle on what it wants to be, but yet, each one is more cursed than the last.
Beesting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.
Vile Beggar wrote:i don't like this thread
imsxz wrote:nervore
FantasticFwoosh wrote:I will whisper sweet nothings that will confuse and perhaps scare you a little, but enhance the experience no-less.
afelinidisfinetoo wrote:By the way, the person who posted that catgirl porn on the github page was me. If anyone wants my private stash just PM me
Nervere wrote:Anything for a femoid.....
Qbopper wrote:I'm a dumb poopy butthead
CitrusGender wrote:god i love it when people feed me my own fried legs
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