Aliens or Xenos

How, what and why to code in BYOND.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

Should we move away from our current xeno sprites

Yes, we should be concerned about copyright issues (and move to different sprites)
10
4%
Yes, we should be concerned about copyright issues (and move to different sprites)
10
4%
Yes, we should be concerned about copyright issues (and move to different sprites)
10
4%
No, I do not think that the copyright is a problem
82
30%
No, I do not think that the copyright is a problem
82
30%
No, I do not think that the copyright is a problem
82
30%
 
Total votes : 276

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oranges
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Aliens or Xenos

Postby oranges » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:32 am #28257

So there is some concern amongst the maintainers that the xenos might be subject of a copyright and or it's unethical for us to reuse imagery from someone

They would like to move to some non copyright sprites.

I have created a poll so that people may discuss the issue Rationally and calmly. (I live in eternal hope I know)

Also possible suggestions for replacements as well.

edit:Could whoever was talking about the plasmavore idea come in and expand on that?
Last edited by oranges on Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby NikNakFlak » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:46 am #28259

A family member of mine was the one who drew the concept for the sprites and the image. I think teh_wolf sprited them but alot of people were not happy with said sprites.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Hornygranny » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:47 am #28260

Kraso is working on plasmavores right now
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Steelpoint » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:07 am #28289

Its a unfounded fear. Of all the things the license holders are going to do, why would they smack down on a free game.

Its not necessarily a very well know game to begin with.

Worst case scenario, we just remove the sprites and replace them if someone really does come down.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby MisterPerson » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:12 am #28290

I don't care about actually getting sued or whatever, I care about not blatantly stealing someone else's work.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby mrpain » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:54 am #28304

If someone is willing to take the time to redo everything then I say let them.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Steelpoint » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:36 am #28310

If someone wants to make really good alternative alien sprites, that's fine.

But the idea that /tg/ station is going to get sued by someone for using alien sprites, and by sprites I mean ones made by someone not something ripped from a alien's games files, is utterly stupid, and is just a flimsy excuse to try and get rid of the alien sprites.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Aranclanos » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:21 am #28488

didn't you forget that time where the free servers of a free open source game where nobody gets a single dollar got ddosed? Because that was us.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Apsis » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:48 pm #28535

Plasmavores are terrible, come up with something better (more unique) please. Maybe you want some advice from someone into creature design?

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby oranges » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:57 am #28682

Apsis wrote:Plasmavores are terrible, come up with something better (more unique) please. Maybe you want some advice from someone into creature design?

You can certainly post any advice you have, you don't need to ask for permission.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Scott » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:24 am #28725

You give this game too much credit if you think anybody cares about the xeno sprites.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Apsis » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:56 pm #29012

oranges wrote:
Apsis wrote:Plasmavores are terrible, come up with something better (more unique) please. Maybe you want some advice from someone into creature design?

You can certainly post any advice you have, you don't need to ask for permission.

Ok then. If you really want to replace Xenos, but keep the same vibe along with the reference - use a Termite based design. They're already eyeless (the queen does have eyes though, so does the king), and they can still logically (story logic) have the acid spit features. Maybe plasma is what they eat, or maybe they eat metals and they excrete plasma. Something about this gives 'em the ability to live in space. Larvae just require meat to rapidly grow. Castes can be kept the same, and winged members (how they spread, jetpack on an alien basically) can be added if you want new code features. Having a fatter looking queen can also justify her terrible speed. The egg features can be tweaked a bit too; though if you wanted to try a new way it would be a good time atm. I just don't want to see this half-assed if it happens.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby peoplearestrange » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:14 pm #29102

I would doubt that any copyright would even find this game, let alone care enough to do anything about it. At most they would do is send a Cease and Desist warning, ordering us to stop using the image and even then if you ignored it it's thoroughly unlikely they'd push it further.

You all forget this game is pretty damn obscure and that we're all small fry in the copyright world.
Whatever
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Scott » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:59 pm #29157

Apsis wrote:
oranges wrote:
Apsis wrote:Plasmavores are terrible, come up with something better (more unique) please. Maybe you want some advice from someone into creature design?

You can certainly post any advice you have, you don't need to ask for permission.

Ok then. If you really want to replace Xenos, but keep the same vibe along with the reference - use a Termite based design. They're already eyeless (the queen does have eyes though, so does the king), and they can still logically (story logic) have the acid spit features. Maybe plasma is what they eat, or maybe they eat metals and they excrete plasma. Something about this gives 'em the ability to live in space. Larvae just require meat to rapidly grow. Castes can be kept the same, and winged members (how they spread, jetpack on an alien basically) can be added if you want new code features. Having a fatter looking queen can also justify her terrible speed. The egg features can be tweaked a bit too; though if you wanted to try a new way it would be a good time atm. I just don't want to see this half-assed if it happens.


I'd rather have xenos than bugs. I still see no point in changing this.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby QuartzCrystal » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:59 pm #31057

Also a free to play openly sourced game that pays homage to numerous other fictional universes (which have been steadily removed and changed due to stupid fears like this) could arguably use the shitty little sprites we have. Xenomorph isn't a trademarked term, neither is alien. There's also absolutely no indication anywhere that we are trying to imply we are directly related to the franchise owners.

This is the same stupid question we had with the metroids, secborgs looking like RoboCop, etc etc. It removes fun and replaces it with something functionally the same, but lacking any real character or fun. I play SS13 cause I like science fiction, and we have steadily removed all references and homages to science fiction works and this trend sucks because people don't understand law.

EDIT: Also >implying this poll will have any effect and the coders listen to the playerbase ever

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Scott » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:18 pm #31060

Come on now, the alien sprites we use aren't shitty.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby QuartzCrystal » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:30 pm #31062

I mean, someone looking at our little sprites and thinking there's a serious copyright infringement is a moron. Shitty was the wrong word. I want to keep them.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby WJohnston » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:11 am #31102

Man I just want to see xenos prosper and grow as a feature. I've always loved the idea of them and their function, and was so pleasantly surprised to discover they were in this game too. It's why I started spriting: to improve them where I couldn't code. I'd never thought that there would be so much growing controversy over this little aspect of the game I enjoy so much.

I just want to see xenos grow to be more than it is now.

I don't have the fortitude or the heart to kill off that much work only to replace it with something that I don't like working with.

Please leave xenos alone.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Psyentific » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:44 am #31112

WJohnston wrote:Please leave xenos alone.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Apsis » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:53 am #31115

Screw what I said before, after a fun as fuck Alien event just a few minutes ago, I agree that we should:
WJohnson wrote:Please leave xenos alone.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby paprika » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:20 am #31372

FUCK YOU WJOHNSON AND HG AND YOUR STUPID BLACK MOVIE XENO SPRITES THEY LOOKED BETTER WHEN THEY WERE FUCKING PURPLE THE WHOLE POINT WAS THAT THEY FED OFF OF PLASMA SO THEY WOULDN'T BE DIRECT RIPOFFS AND NOW THEY LOOK RETARDED.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby WJohnston » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:35 am #31392

Uncalled for.

Xenos are also still blue, they just have black resin which is a thousand times better than purple weeds, which were next to impossible to make new sprites out of.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby paprika » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:02 am #31396

Why not resprite them in a different purple color than pitch black though god damn it looks ugly
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby WJohnston » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:23 am #31399

There is a pink and dark blue color for resin, I was just personally the most fond of black resin (which still has a slight blue/purple tint to it).
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Septavius » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:09 am #31435

the new resin looks like mold, change it back to vines

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby WJohnston » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:46 am #31486

The current resin is far, far easier to work with. The vast majority of players prefer it. It's way less of an eyesore with the nodes. Xenos can actually blend in to some extent.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby paprika » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:22 pm #31523

"The vast majority of players prefer it" = "I prefer it because I'm the self-imposed god-king of xenos"

Sounding an awful lot like gun hog when it comes to silicons here wj
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby WJohnston » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:43 pm #31533

I don't want a fight to break out here. I just want to sprite for xenos and help them grow and develop and be more interesting. I'd prefer it if they stayed as xenomorphs though.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Steelpoint » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:47 pm #31535

I still think that a possible alternative alien game mode, when we don't need a alien hive, is to plop one or two alien 'hunters' on the station and re-enact the first Alien movie.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby WJohnston » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:49 pm #31536

Steelpoint wrote:I still think that a possible alternative alien game mode, when we don't need a alien hive, is to plop one or two alien 'hunters' on the station and re-enact the first Alien movie.


Those would get destroyed incredibly quickly. The main killing power of aliens is facehuggers, although stun hands with 25 brute hits are good, throwing any sort of fire or lasers in their direction will kill them almost instantly.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby paprika » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:10 pm #31548

I think aliens should be buffed to be stronger (like movie stronger) but the hugger conversion time takes longer so there's a better chance of saving people and there's not 50 trillion xenos in 5 minutes because greyshirts walked into hives. It'd be a lot more fun that way.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Psyentific » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:42 pm #31564

paprika wrote:I think aliens should be buffed to be stronger (like movie stronger) but the hugger conversion time takes longer so there's a better chance of saving people and there's not 50 trillion xenos in 5 minutes because greyshirts walked into hives. It'd be a lot more fun that way.

Reduce 2x burn damage to 1.5x? 1.25x? Increase facehugger infection time to 5m?
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby WJohnston » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:57 pm #31567

I don't think I need to point out why buffing aliens, who already crush the entire station when a half competent queen is around, and worsening the shuttle-gets-here-before-aliens-have-a-hive problem are bad ideas.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby paprika » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:41 am #31683

That only happens because you can make a ton of them really quick, they multiply way too fast. Facehugging in the movie takes like, several hours iirc.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Miauw » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:51 am #31760

im a maintainer and i haven o idea what this controversy is about :V
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Remie Richards » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:26 pm #31783

I am also a maintainer. I am also confused over the controversy.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:31 pm #31785

As far as I can recall, this 'controversy' was born out of discussions, of which I'm 100% certain involved Aran, saying that they want to move away from the current alien sprites due to the fear of being sued/take downed by the copyright owners.

Most people called this out as being overly paranoid, but its hard to get some of the maintainers to relent when they've set their roots so to speak.

That controversy has somewhat continued to this day, and I won't be surprised is some people are concerned these new sprites are a attempt to move away from the current Xeno art style, or at least fear a resurgence in the desire to move away.

--

Afaik the only maintainers that I recall being involved in this debate are Aran and Rock, maybe Giacom when he was around but to be fair this was a while ago.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby paprika » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:50 pm #31802

Yeah tbh Literally Who Cares because we have a minecraft direct reference in the game too and i still haven't been forced to give money to microsoft for it yet
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Cipher3 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:26 pm #31878

We do? What's the Minecraft reference?
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:27 pm #31879

I'm guessing anything that happens to be made out of diamond and/or is a mining utility is a minecraft reference.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Raven776 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:40 pm #31911

We can mine. We can craft. Microsoft will have our butts.

And the problem with raising the facehugger time is that any alien worth their salt just drags the murdered mooks to some rapecave/the solars and lets them cook while dead.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby paprika » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:43 pm #31938

Look at the description of the diamond pick. It literally says, "this is just like minecraft!"
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby QuartzCrystal » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:49 pm #32120

Anyone who actually thinks aliens should be removed because of the possibility of being sued or because of the morality of having a homage to another science fiction world in our science fiction game is stupid.

If you want aliens removed/replaced because whatever, that's fine. I disagree, but you're not dumb for thinking that. You are stupid if you think one of the two things above though.

Also, vast majority of player base votes/voices their concern to keep xenos and the sprites, coders go "lolno we're stupid, removing anyways!".

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:58 pm #32129

All well and good until you note that its two maintainers that want to remove (or at least supported their removal a while ago) the alien sprites for copy right reasons, and the maintainers have a lot of power over the game.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby QuartzCrystal » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:09 pm #32133

Steelpoint wrote:All well and good until you note that its two maintainers that want to remove (or at least supported their removal a while ago) the alien sprites for copy right reasons, and the maintainers have a lot of power over the game.


I know. I'm trying to make it really explicitly clear how wrong the whole copyright concern is.

PostThis post was deleted by MisterPerson on Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:07 pm.
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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby oranges » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:04 am #33144

Stop shiptoasting in my thread please.

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby RG4 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:31 am #39492

How about we not ruin things people like?

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Re: Aliens or Xenos

Postby MisterPerson » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:49 am #39500

RG4 wrote:How about we not ruin things people like?


Oh yes you figured me out, I get off on pissing people off by taking away things they like. That's clearly what this is about and not wider issues like shitty design, poor gameplay, ambiguous legality, or zero creativity or originality put into a fairly major feature.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.

Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter

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