Antagonist Race Option

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Istoprocent1
 
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Antagonist Race Option

Postby Istoprocent1 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:25 am #531165

Need an option to choose a race as an antagonist, because the game pretty much becomes unplayable against some statics as they go out of their way to metagame / metagrudge. See a gray lizard not in sec? Yup, thats Krokodil doing Contracts again even though he has Agent ID and a Voice Changer, time to take him down. Even worse is that they don't play the round as security, but instead choose other jobs and then gear up with as much of the gamer gear (sunglasses, box of bolas, security encryption keys, stun batons and so on) as they can in order to catch people by surprise and do some underhanded shit.

Two metafriends validhunting on Event Hall on Round 126674 (round ended). Pretty sad.

(F) Otto Leskinen says, " I knew it was krokodil " - Otto Leskinen
(F) GAY PORNO says, " And hedoes contracts often " - John Irish

Confessing to playing the game in that way in order to ruin the experience for others.

(F) DEAD: revenant (206) asks, " why did you kill the traitors? "

(F) DEAD: John Irish says, " i want their gear "
(F) DEAD: John Irish says, " i want to make them rage "

EDIT (from the following round, couldn't post before round ended):

OOC: CastorTroy23: krok is known for doing contracts and was running around as an unknown with a gasmask - John Irish

What the game needs is an option to set an antagonist race preferably HUMAN (not completely random, because not everybody knows or wants to play a plasmaman and a random lizard easily stands out) with randomized body option.
Last edited by Istoprocent1 on Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby wesoda25 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:12 am #531174

sounds like an administrative problem to me
9357

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skoglol
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby skoglol » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:05 am #531178

Some pretty heavy irony in this thread, as you seem happy enough to infer what statics are up to based on previous knowledge.

There are randomized when antag settings available, and I would not like to see specific settings when antag added for a few reasons. You can go be a random color lizard instead if you wish.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Istoprocent1 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:10 am #531179

skoglol wrote:Some pretty heavy irony in this thread, as you seem happy enough to infer what statics are up to based on previous knowledge.

There are randomized when antag settings available, and I would not like to see specific settings when antag added for a few reasons. You can go be a random color lizard instead if you wish.


I am not getting what you are saying as I have always based my security plays on forensics and hard evidence not gut feelings or metagame like you can see here.

I would like to be able to at least choose a specific race for Antagonists, so random body would actually be meaningful. Completely random race or "just a differently colored lizard" puts non-human mains at a huge disadvantage especially when they want to play the "paranoia" and "covert" part of the game rather than just flat out murderboning.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby skoglol » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:23 am #531180

No, you can't have a "human when antag" setting. Theres a random race setting you may use if you dont want to be a lizard.

Are you implying that knowing what statics look like isnt enough for a search when you come across them badly disguised? Its a well known drawback of being static.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:25 am #531181

skoglol is right

If i'm wearing a bandana as Owen Kimple, other statics tend to run away from me when I chase them down.

Spoiler:
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Istoprocent1 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:33 am #531184

skoglol wrote:No, you can't have a "human when antag" setting. Theres a random race setting you may use if you dont want to be a lizard.

Are you implying that knowing what statics look like isnt enough for a search when you come across them badly disguised? Its a well known drawback of being static.


Dude, I was a unknown lizard with a gasmask.

If you are saying that the gameplay is about hunting valids as non-sec while powergaming as much as possible and statics who aren't doing their usual job are valid, then I just have to get good and start playing the same way.

Shadowflame909, maybe on Sybil. Definitely not on Terry. On Terry you get shot.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby skoglol » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:42 am #531185

Im saying that being recognized from your features is a drawback of playing a static. Do you know a lot of other grey lizards?
You can keep the rest of the drivel you attempted to assign as my opinion.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby nianjiilical » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:10 am #531219

i thought this thread was going to be about adding an alien race literally called antagonists/antags/antaganims/whatever and now i really want that

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Mickyan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:27 pm #531311

Being an unknown with a gas mask is the opposite of a disguise
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Nabski » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:09 pm #531334

I appreciate that the poster is up front about this being an “i ded” post.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Istoprocent1 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:32 pm #531353

Nabski wrote:I appreciate that the poster is up front about this being an “i ded” post.


I appreciate a hut post in coding forum. I have no issue with meta/powergaming, if an admin or policy flat out said that it is okay and I would have to get good at the game or if it is not, then instead of having to F1 people like John I would much rather see a code solution.

The problem stands - lizards have no non-obvious options for disguising themselves, if they want to do covert stuff. There are literally only two options I can call from the memory a) get your tail chopped off combined with a gasmask, which isn't perfect, but gets you closer to appearing as a human or b) breaking into xenobio for green slimes. Both of which are obvious and can easily be metagamed - he is doing X as well as not play his usual job, yup, lets go instigate a pre-emptive fight/search.

In any case you cannot even change your color with genetics or even when using a mulligan injector.

If lizards were able to pop their tails or start without one to reflect that they have been civilized, then that would be enough. Although as mentioned before, being able to play as a specific race with randomized body/name option as an antag would be good as well.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby RaveRadbury » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:24 pm #531371

Istoprocent1 wrote:The problem stands - lizards have no non-obvious options for disguising themselves, if they want to do covert stuff. There are literally only two options I can call from the memory a) get your tail chopped off combined with a gasmask, which isn't perfect, but gets you closer to appearing as a human or b) breaking into xenobio for green slimes. Both of which are obvious and can easily be metagamed - he is doing X as well as not play his usual job, yup, lets go instigate a pre-emptive fight/search.

In any case you cannot even change your color with genetics or even when using a mulligan injector.

If lizards were able to pop their tails or start without one to reflect that they have been civilized, then that would be enough. Although as mentioned before, being able to play as a specific race with randomized body/name option as an antag would be good as well.


Monkey suit and chicken suit hides the tail, monkey suit spawns in meta maint. Chicken suit is random spawn but also costumedrobes are in maint.
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Nabski » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:01 pm #531386

Istoprocent1 wrote:
Nabski wrote:I appreciate that the poster is up front about this being an “i ded” post.


Snip.


You have issues even as a human, for instance my characters hair shows through like half the hats and is distinctive enough that it’s gotten me boned repeatedly.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Istoprocent1 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:05 pm #531388

Nabski wrote:
Istoprocent1 wrote:
Nabski wrote:I appreciate that the poster is up front about this being an “i ded” post.


Snip.


You have issues even as a human, for instance my characters hair shows through like half the hats and is distinctive enough that it’s gotten me boned repeatedly.


One trip to the bathroom lets you fix that. Wanna be bald? Changed. Wanna have an afro? Changed.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby skoglol » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:44 pm #531394

Istoprocent1 wrote:The problem stands - lizards have no non-obvious options for disguising themselves, if they want to do covert stuff. There are literally only two options I can call from the memory a) get your tail chopped off combined with a gasmask, which isn't perfect, but gets you closer to appearing as a human or b) breaking into xenobio for green slimes. Both of which are obvious and can easily be metagamed - he is doing X as well as not play his usual job, yup, lets go instigate a pre-emptive fight/search.

In any case you cannot even change your color with genetics or even when using a mulligan injector.

If lizards were able to pop their tails or start without one to reflect that they have been civilized, then that would be enough. Although as mentioned before, being able to play as a specific race with randomized body/name option as an antag would be good as well.


Playing as a non human is an optional and conscious choice, and one of the tradeoffs you have to accept is you also can't go back to being human when its convenient. You can play the race lottery if you are dead set on not being a lizard when antag.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Kryson » Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:58 am #531466

The chicken suit is the disguise of syndicate chads. If you want more stealth get a clown ID.

Many good games were had with agent ID, ebow and the old trusty chicken suit.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Kryson » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:18 am #531468

Istoprocent1 wrote:If lizards were able to pop their tails


I have a PR that solves that if you or a helpful doctor has the cash.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/48271

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Boris » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:21 am #531488

Have you tried not being so predictable?
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Istoprocent1 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:21 am #531491

Kryson wrote:
Istoprocent1 wrote:If lizards were able to pop their tails


I have a PR that solves that if you or a helpful doctor has the cash.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/48271


Appreciate you fam. :D

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby NecromancerAnne » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:12 pm #533759

Accept that ultraviolence is the only answer. They can't metagame you if you're caving their skull in. Your identity is academic at that point.

Also mulligan is a thing.

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Cobby » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:55 pm #535128

Istoprocent1 wrote:
Nabski wrote:
Istoprocent1 wrote:
Nabski wrote:I appreciate that the poster is up front about this being an “i ded” post.


Snip.


You have issues even as a human, for instance my characters hair shows through like half the hats and is distinctive enough that it’s gotten me boned repeatedly.


One trip to the bathroom lets you fix that. Wanna be bald? Changed. Wanna have an afro? Changed.


not the color
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Cobby » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:59 pm #535129

Also if you're a 1trick wonder sec officer static you only have yourself to blame when people start seeing you play a non-sec job.

Athena Hunt is/used to be an example of this, I very easily know OOCly she's antag when she's roaming the halls without her dedicated sec attire on.

Another one was Lexia. If I see someone roaming the halls crayon'd up with an odd name you better believe i'm sus af.
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:11 pm #535135

just spray can your face with blue paint

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Istoprocent1 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:49 am #535272

Cobby wrote:not the color


You can spray tan as a human.

A code solution is much easier than sec statics having to start ahelping people who start pre-emptive fights with "possible antags on the basis that they aren't in sec".

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:09 pm #535589

1. Playing as a sec main static and expecting no metagamers is stupid
2. Admins should be harsher when dealing with these people since it's basically metaknowledge
3. I think the human race when antag thing is a bad idea
E: dumb
Last edited by Tarchonvaagh on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Istoprocent1 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:45 pm #535596

Tarchonvaagh wrote:1. Playing as a sec main static and expecting no metagamers is stupid
2. Admins should be harsher when dealing with these people since it's basically metaknowledge
3. I think the random race when antag thing is a bad idea


>be tarchonvaagh
>tl;dr -
Spoiler:
At the moment you CAN random race as an antag.The problem is that not everybody knows or wants to play a random plasmaman etc.


Removing players from the game via admin intervention rather than having an easy code solution is whats bad. :roll:

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:36 am #535655

O
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby RaveRadbury » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:37 am #535656

Imagine being a player that is metagamed for being too good at their tasks, yet unwilling to spend a few shifts with each race to be able to randomrace antag.
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby oranges » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:50 am #535659

peak powergamer.

Accept the random, it's the best you're gonna get.
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby 4dplanner » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:47 am #535723

Lots of people here saying "if you play a static, you should expect metagaming". Why is this relevant to a discussion of how things should be?

Similar question for statements like "it's a drawback"

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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:54 am #535725

Make a policy thread about it
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Re: Antagonist Race Option

Postby skoglol » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:19 pm #535765

Metagaming statics is obviously not something we want, but neither is being able to pick human for your antag rounds only. You are already able to random name/body/race when antag if you wish to combat this. If this was about your static being metagamed he would have been happy with this, but its not.


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