/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

cobby and oranges agree on everything and it's always something anti-fun

started from the bottom now we here

I think a lot of the emag sabotage actions should be changed into sabotage actions that are available through cutting wires.

Stuff like messing up medbay machines, or disabling holodeck security.

do... do you people genuinely never use emag that you have to make pages long rant about it?
Okay then, oranges game, we don't get to have an input.

It works just fine as is, no reason to change it. It's a meme traitor item that's thematic to SS13.
You get instantly caught with it, even the first time sec guy knows it's something only bad guys have, it's original, instantly recognizable and does what it says on the tin and has funny interactions with stuff.
E
If you want to nerf it some way, minute per use i guess to prevent mass door open or something but at that stage you just emag to AA anyway and gameplay isn't affected, UNLESS YOUR GIMMICK WAS TO EMAG ALL DOORS OPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Emags aren't really unbalanced or anything, or at least I don't see how they could be. I don't see a real reason to change it.

I think a lot of the emag sabotage actions should be changed into sabotage actions that are available through cutting wires.

These might be locked behind the emag for a reason.

Okay then, oranges game, we don't get to have an input.

Is this thread not about input/feedback?

wet socks wrote: Is this thread not about input/feedback?

Only if oranges likes your input tho :p

Believe me if oranges didn't want your feedback he wouldn't open this thread. He wouldn't have taken the effort to do so otherwise. Oftentimes this happens with ideas he doesn't like and knows we won't like.

Also the PR is closed

I still feel we should have more items akin to the e-mag instead of nerfing it.

It's one of the best non-lethal items in the kit and nerfing it pushes lethal items all the more.

I just don't like going horizontal bros.

So the traitor buying an e-mag over an agent ID correlates to how much fun I have that round.

It wasn't a nerf so much as taking two disparate functionalities and moving them into different items so they can be rebalanced seperately.

Getting them both is only 1 tc more than than the original emag.

At least now we can iterate on each independently without disturbing people who like the other part of it.

The only nerf aspect was putting timers on how often you can actually hack a door, and that's to encourage you to reserve it for emergencies and to use the actual hacking system in the game instead.

I disagree with you.
Emag is one of the oldest traitor tools in the game. It was in as early as 2003-2004. It's use was always a jack of all trades. The design of an emag should be thinking "any machine I hit with this will be helpful to me, or more likely, harmful to the crew". That was true in the past, and should be true moving forward.
Having interaction that includes airlocks is key to the design. Here's a proposal Oranges. Flip the interaction from bolting doors open, to bolting them closed, and unbolting them when struck again. No upgrade to access. Change it into a tool that is used more like "I am in genetics, I will bolt close both doors in quick succession and try and kill my coworker" instead of "lol steal objective accomplished". It also has fringe usage against lazy AIs, who just bolt doors, and don't actually just disable the ID scanner
Ideally, each machine should have an emag function

nah

it existing since 20XX doesnt mean it is good for the game then or now

Helios wrote:Flip the interaction from bolting doors open, to bolting them closed, and unbolting them when struck again.

This is actually a pretty good idea.

can you make hitting the door thing with emag combine both in a single item?

An illegal universal door remote with limited/recharging uses would be a cool item.

Cobby wrote:it existing since 20XX doesnt mean it is good for the game then or now

It's iconic. It's above the power curve, and has distinct abilities, be it then or now.
It punishes electronics in a way, so the better prepared the crew is with electronics, the more medbots or beepskies they have patrolling the halls, the more they are punished by the emag. It is good for the game.
It's self balancing, not top down balancing.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 10&t=26584
If the crew relies too much on medbots as a crutch, start buying more emags.
It's a meta-disruption tool.

oranges wrote:nah

Thanks Oranges. I forgot you were better then us as players. You're better at balancing the game then we are, so you can sit in your INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower and disregard us.

I may not be a coder, but I've played this game for a hell of a long time. On and off for 13 years. So I hope in the future you give me the dignity of more than a one word dismissal

nah

what if you made the emag door break replacement thingy into a semi-omnitool that only works on airlocks and has three modes?

first mode would remove airlock panel, remove the plating(obviously would still take time to do that, but wouldn’t require welding goggles), then let you access the wire hacking menu. second mode would just close the airlock panel. third mode would just work like jaws of life but a bit faster. It would be a convenient and easy option considering that it would fit in one hand, it’s straightforward to use and still requires you to memorize wires. It also doesn’t completely make normal tools useless, considering you can only use that tool on airlocks and firelocks.

as a bonus perhaps it could come in bundle with a note that states what each wire does

Fuck you Oranges. You're an asshole

Jack7D1 wrote:Believe me if oranges didn't want your feedback he wouldn't open this thread. He wouldn't have taken the effort to do so otherwise. Oftentimes this happens with ideas he doesn't like and knows we won't like.

oranges wrote:nah

yes i see oranges clearly wants and appreciates our feedback

Tip for speaking to coders. Speak briefly, concisely and calmly. They are very good at tuning people out the instant an iota of hostility is sensed.

For general people, screaming at them and insulting them is not a good way to get them on your side.
Win your brother, not the argument.

Jack7D1 wrote:Tip for speaking to coders. Speak briefly, concisely and calmly. They are very good at tuning people out the instant an iota of hostility is sensed.

For general people, screaming at them and insulting them is not a good way to get them on your side.
Win your brother, not the argument.

Coders aren't children, to be treated specially.
Oranges is a member of this community, just like anyone else.
Giving coders special treatment IS the problem. Treat them like Super Aggro Crag.

The input and feedback is fine, but that doesn't mean I'll agree with any of it or implement it, there's a difference between those two points that's important to understand.

After thinking about it a bit, splitting the emag up was definitely warranted. Giving the split off item a TC requirement is a bit odd, though. I think its price should just be raised and that downside removed.

what do you mean

ignore what i said it was uninformed, pr changed without me knowing and i like how it is

you're all fucking retarded for making actual responses to why this pr shouldn't exist when oranges is the one frontlining this pr change
just call oranges a faggot and leave it, nothing's going to happen as oranges is so vehement on code changes which make no fucking sense and i dont want to go into a paragraph long rant about why the pr sucks when oranges is just gonna go "no way fag"

Lol fruit

Helios wrote:

Cobby wrote:it existing since 20XX doesnt mean it is good for the game then or now

It's iconic. It's above the power curve, and has distinct abilities, be it then or now.
It punishes electronics in a way, so the better prepared the crew is with electronics, the more medbots or beepskies they have patrolling the halls, the more they are punished by the emag. It is good for the game.
It's self balancing, not top down balancing.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 10&t=26584
If the crew relies too much on medbots as a crutch, start buying more emags.
It's a meta-disruption tool.

yeah ok but why does all these interactions HAVE to be on the emag?

I just wanted to mention this because I thought it was funny.

Coders don't like the e-mag because they feel one tool shouldn't be an all in one variety tool.

But we also have an in-game item literally called the multitool

These jannies with their pink coder socks and conflicting game direction

Shadowflame909 wrote:I just wanted to mention this because I thought it was funny.

Coders don't like the e-mag because they feel one tool shouldn't be an all in one variety tool.

But we also have an in-game item literally called the multitool

These jannies with their pink coder socks and conflicting game direction

there's also the omnitool but that has to be manually spawned in by admins

Shadowflame909 wrote:
...But we also have an in-game item literally called the multitool

Multitool is just a multimeter, you know that thing that everyone even remotely doing something with electronics has?

shh I want to see where he takes this

CPTANT wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:
...But we also have an in-game item literally called the multitool

Multitool is just a multimeter, you know that thing that everyone even remotely doing something with electronics has?

do you have a single fact to back that up

He was a good man, it's a rotten way to die.

I wanted to use an Emag as a traitor the other day and found out it was changed to some fucking retardation. Fix this. It's retarded and a terrible change.

edit: I won't use the new emags until it's fixed thanks for fucking up another thing.

legoscape wrote:I wanted to use an Emag as a traitor the other day and found out it was changed to some fucking retardation. Fix this. It's retarded and a terrible change.

edit: I won't use the new emags until it's fixed thanks for fucking up another thing.

Expand on your thesis

Armhulen wrote:

legoscape wrote:I wanted to use an Emag as a traitor the other day and found out it was changed to some fucking retardation. Fix this. It's retarded and a terrible change.

edit: I won't use the new emags until it's fixed thanks for fucking up another thing.

Expand on your thesis

"I wanted to use an emag to open a door, and found out that you needed a doormag to do so, wasting my TC. I believe that this is a bad change and that it should be reverted."

trollbreeder wrote:

Armhulen wrote:

legoscape wrote:I wanted to use an Emag as a traitor the other day and found out it was changed to some fucking retardation. Fix this. It's retarded and a terrible change.

edit: I won't use the new emags until it's fixed thanks for fucking up another thing.

Expand on your thesis

"I wanted to use an emag to open a door, and found out that you needed a doormag to do so, wasting my TC. I believe that this is a bad change and that it should be reverted."

This uses more words, but conveys pretty much the same so if I were your english teacher I would probably mark you down (counting the edit, it's actually less words.)

cheap emagging borg is cool
door jacker is noob bait, maybe improve it by giving it like bolt door functions, make doors only open to u (no ai) etc

There are literally only a few niche applications to EMAG, one is opening locked shit, the other is hacking cargo computers for goodies, nukies getting quick access, and finally for robos to make an army of loyal borgs.

I wonder who complains about the EMAG, certain not players because there are DOZENS of other ways to get get access w/o using an emag. State above the BIGGEST feature of the emag is typically allowing for the contraband or more expanded machine operations. Otherwise there are plenty of robust traitors and antags who can complete steal objectives w/o the need of an emag. This is a pointless nerf because some random goober think he's smart in removing a traitor item or changing it because of a small percentage of people see it as problematic.

legoscape wrote:I wanted to use an Emag as a traitor the other day and found out it was changed to some fucking retardation. Fix this. It's retarded and a terrible change.

edit: I won't use the new emags until it's fixed thanks for fucking up another thing.

could you just stop playing altogether? that would be super nice.

I will say, since this threads up again, the fact most doors are double airlocks with shared access really makes the doormags limited and extremely slow charge regain pretty painful. A full three minutes on a single charge is an immense amount of time for what you're normally using the doormag for, and at 3 a pop buying multiple seems an utter waste to just using tools.

I genuinely don't understand why I would want this as a traitor given I can't reasonably make it very deep into a department with it and at that point I'm going to turn to tools anyway. It's mostly at the fault of map design than the item.

Every set of doors being in twos makes sense but does mean getting into a major interior department hallway can eat up almost 2/3rds of your valuable charges. I want to emag doors because I have to make it in and out quickly. But since it doesn't really do that anymore and only opens small area of doors permanently, I would prefer reasonable deniability of a set of tools I can reacquire if I'm captured rather than spend murder dollars on it and blow my cover wide open.

If the idea is that I am more liable to be caught, I'll probably prepare to be caught (or I'll brute force it through violence and kill my way into a department on stolen access as path of least resistance proves increasingly viable) and hope I don't get killed for B&E by some overzealous idiot. The last bit being the primary reason why people take the path of least resistance mind you. There was no talking to be had, just a binary valid/not valid, which tends to make anyone banking on conversation rather cynical, so I consider it as a potential perspective a player might take.

It definitely kicked ops in the teeth and that's cool. This is a good balance change for ops. But my initial concerns with it being crap for traitors when the pr was first proposed is pretty much correct. Maybe it's something they probably don't need and shouldn't be using in the first place, so maybe it'd be better removed from the traitor uplink. They still get syndicate toolboxes after all, so they do have options in their uplink for trespass.

legoscape wrote:edit: I won't use the new emags until it's fixed thanks for fucking up another thing.

My current expectations of the codebase are that it will never be fixed and that none of the people involved in the change are paying attention to the effect on emags or whether the results of the change solve the problem they were intended to or are even desirable.

saprasam wrote:oranges is so vehement on code changes which make no fucking sense and i dont want to go into a paragraph long rant about why the pr sucks when oranges is just gonna go "no way fag"

It's the oranges x cobby otp. While I'm fairly certain what motivates oranges to aid and abet radical changes despite not playing we may never understand what motivates Cobby.

breaking up emag functions are good (some functions shouldn’t even be present), if the issue is that the doormag got under tuned then just raise it a bit

EDIT: I just made a long dumb post about my anger over the recent changes to this server. I just realized oranges can do what he wants because he knows how to code. I don't think he cares about the input because a majority of players want cloning/sleepers back but he doesn't give a shit so whatever dude.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26719
^ see

oranges wrote:

legoscape wrote:I wanted to use an Emag as a traitor the other day and found out it was changed to some fucking retardation. Fix this. It's retarded and a terrible change.

edit: I won't use the new emags until it's fixed thanks for fucking up another thing.

could you just stop playing altogether? that would be super nice.

You make changes to the game and rarely play. I play every day or week for the past seven years. I'm a boomer player, Of course, I'll dislike the changes.

legoscape wrote:EDIT: I just made a long dumb post about my anger over the recent changes to this server. I just realized oranges can do what he wants because he knows how to code. I don't think he cares about the input because a majority of players want cloning/sleepers back but he doesn't give a shit so whatever dude.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26719
^ see

Did you read that thread wrong


This clearly says a majority of players want neither back, unless you're adding the votes of people who want only a single one back which is dumb given people could vote in multiple options and thus people who want both are already accounted for

Sheodir wrote:

legoscape wrote:EDIT: I just made a long dumb post about my anger over the recent changes to this server. I just realized oranges can do what he wants because he knows how to code. I don't think he cares about the input because a majority of players want cloning/sleepers back but he doesn't give a shit so whatever dude.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26719
^ see

Did you read that thread wrong


This clearly says a majority of players want neither back, unless you're adding the votes of people who want only a single one back which is dumb given people could vote in multiple options and thus people who want both are already accounted for

You got a point. I think there needs to be vote for Cloners or Sleepers and if they want it back or not. So essentially 2 votes. But yeah I'll say a majority of people want a combination of the two.

Cobby wrote:breaking up emag functions are good (some functions shouldn’t even be present), if the issue is that the doormag got under tuned then just raise it a bit

Nobody has complained about the Emag like ever. Why would it be changed then?