/tg/Station 13

You have 2 options.

OPTION 1 GENETICS TOP CHEM BOTTOM:

OPTION 2 GENETICS BOTTOM CHEM TOP:


WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OLD CHEM LOCATION:


You guys never ever used the morgue except once in a blue moon. As such, it got a downsize.

Every single round of SS13 I've played, even on the heavy rp servers, there was never more then 5 bodies ever put in the morgue trays. And 9 times out of 10 those bodies were stashed by an antag.

Vote today.

MOD EDIT: Per Jordie, any post that doesn't constitute feedback (off-topic or THIS IS SHIT posts) are subject to pruning.

Change option 1 so people can't just walk into science, or change option 2 so the little in-between spot is bigger, and I'll be okay with either.
Also why does chem have two doors to maint in option 2

pretty epic dude im glad you didnt show us what you did with the spot where chemistry used to be at all good idea

oh yeah

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OLD CHEM LOCATION:


You guys never ever used it except once in a blue moon. As such, it got a downsize.

Every single round of SS13 I've played, even on the heavy rp servers, there was never more then 5 bodies ever put in the morgue trays. And 9 times out of 10 those bodies were stashed by an antag.

I guess option 1 would be better because it's supposed to become part of science now right? It seems really weird in option 2 that Chemistry despite being part of science doesn't have the direct connection while genetics which is barely part of science at this point does.

I'll have a second poll to determine what floor coloring/association Chemistry gets after the layout is decided on.

Also, considering the fact that chemistry is getting a shitton new flammables and pyrotechnics, they need a lab that blowing 1 thing up doesn't make the rest of chemistry and 3 neighboring rooms broken.

I dislike that one chem dispenser is always hidden from view. It is already hard enough to get chemists to make you some stuff, don't let them hide!

The in-between spaces should be bigger/exist and since genetics is both a medical and research department it might be a good idea to separate it like the current genetics if that's possible.
Chemistry's testing lab should be the same testing lab as the rest of the science department.
Option 1 needs a window for the bottom chem dispenser too.
A bigger monkey pen would be nice too.

Do we really need a layout change? Not sure why.

...but if i HAD to choose one, then id go with Chemistry top, Genetics bottom. Chemistry still need to be able to dish out their over-the-counter drugs/chemicals. Genetics dont really need to give out anything other than super powers, and giving that stuff to random crew doesnt seem wise or something that should be encouraged, as fun as it is.

Chemistry has been feeling really cramped, so I'm glad for them to be getting some extra room. I prefer Chem on top, because:
Chem having a hallway-facing to interact with people and supply chems is good gameplay
Genetics having a hallway-facing window for people to pass bodies over in a conveyor-belt fashion or to break into and mess with shit and beg for hulk is bad gameplay.

I'd like to see more trays in the morgue still. It's a big downsizing and on sibyl high-pop I've seen rounds where all trays were filled.

More trays can be arranged.

I object to you not allowing for a "No" option, but Chem top is my vote.

some criticisms
Your cutting off robotics direct morgue access this is kind of bad
genetics is not separated to keep superpowers from the plebs
the emergency shower window lets monkeys/assistants see your dick
EDIT: DERP IM STUPID AND BLIND

There obviously isn't one.

And there never will be because people have to fix what isn't broken.

Option 2 by far, so Chemistry is on top and Genetics is on the bottom. Its important that chemistry is available to the public since a lot of jobs outside of medbay rely on chemicals. With chemistry on top, the public has a lot easier access to the chemists desk.

My one nitpick is that the waiting area outside of chemistry looks a little plain. Consider adding a table or vending machine somewhere in there. Also, the cloning and research parts of genetics should absolutely be separated in some way.

I like this chemistry better than the old one because this one looks like each chemist has a little more of a personal area than before. Also, if chemistry is going to become a little more hazardous, than it should be moved away from other vulnerable areas. I see no reason why chemistry shouldn't change to option 2.

The medbay lobby seems way too dead on both of 'em. I always got a nice sense of buzz and activity in that area.
Do please include an option to vote for no change, but gun to head, I'd vote chem top, genetics bottom
Pls no change tho

Why on earth would you be against the change to one of the two options

The morgue is barely used and all it does is increase the amount of space chemistry has while moving it over slightly.

Are you really that autistic that it would be a problem for you?

iamgoofball wrote:I'll have a second poll to determine what floor coloring/association Chemistry gets after the layout is decided on.

Also, considering the fact that chemistry is getting a shitton new flammables and pyrotechnics, they need a lab that blowing 1 thing up doesn't make the rest of chemistry and 3 neighboring rooms broken.

The current color is orange, which I don't think should be changed. It sounds even more appropriate if they're gonna be lighting themselves on fire constantly.

I honestly like how it currently looks too. This just looks like a way for goofball to expand chem and add a third slot because that's what there is. I hate both options. In reality, a morgue would not at the front of medbay. Maybe the sleepers or something. Either don't fix what isn't broken or do it right, not this half-assed map change that really only serves to make chemistry bigger.

I can add an Abstain option to the poll, but it would reset everyones vote.

But since there isn't one, I vote "leave it the way it is" Quit trying to make goofchem a larger part of things when everyone already fucking hates it as-is.

Theres no reason to change it, chemistry was small and the past, and chemists did fine, and in the rare occurance someone does use the mourge, its out of the way, and no one checks it, therefore, it is a large part of antag's operations, because good antags say "Hey, them powergamers are probally going to check maintance, i better go hide it in the most unobvious spot possible, THE MOURGE!" - My personal opinion is its fine where it is, if you are going to move it anyways, Option 2 is prefered.

NikNakFlak wrote:half-assed map change that really only serves to make chemistry bigger.

That's the whole point mate

Both are bad, medbay is fine as it is.

Genetics top is dumb, everyone can see naked people popping out of the scanner and it ruins a lot of genetics antag play when the entire station walks by your window all round. Chemistry at least is already used to that handicap.

Comments on Chem top:

*That freestanding sink in genetics should be pushed up against the wall, that's how all other south facing sinks look on the station
*Lose the R-walls except for the wall bordering genetics as well as the interior facing APC in chemistry

Don't add an abstain option Jeb.

I'm not doing this poll to see "hey should we add it or not"

I'm doing it to see "which of these two would you prefer"

I see morgue used a lot of the time. For morgue what counts as used is holding corpses.

For the space cadets among us you can tell there are corpses via the light on the side of the tray changing from blue to red.

It is a quiet place used by dead people what do you expect?

The morgue is kind of in an odd spot. Have you considered switching it with surgery? It could still be connected to the main hall and surgery would no longer be hidden away in the back as well.

I've seen several rounds where the morgue is literally overflowing with corpses. Usually because the chef is dead.

I dislike them both because:
Genetics lab needs to be seperate from cloning. People have no business getting super power/monkey SE's when going into cloning. This means you basically can't trust people to come into cloning anymore, which is bad.
Option 1 is awful no matter what: Chemistry needs to be accessible from the public corridor.
Option 2 is bad because chemistry doesn't need to change. With this layout, only 1 of 3 (why is there a 3rd chemist slot in this design?) of the stations are actually connected to the public, meaning one poor sod has to deal with the crew while the other two make lube and meth all day.

Also, if someone comes to medbay needing treatment, they go to the lobby, grab some shit from chemistry if it's light, or get cryo'd (since sleepers are essentially useless without upgrades) from there. The key point? It usually relies on a chemist. Rather often there is no doctor at the foyer, so it's a chemist that opens the doors and drags the crit fuck to cryo. With this design, there's no chemist there to help.
This also means that if you do have a sec officer there, they can't see what's going on at chemistry anymore.

Essentially, why so severely down size morgue/move all the other shit around, when you could make the morgue/mech bay slightly smaller, then move chem/foyer etc to the right, opening up more space for chem? And that's if more space in chem is even needed.

>24 to 4 in favor of #2
ayy lmao I was right

Option 2 is bad because chemistry doesn't need to change. With this layout, only 1 of 3 (why is there a 3rd chemist slot in this design?) of the stations are actually connected to the public, meaning one poor sod has to deal with the crew while the other two make lube and meth all day.

Doing nothing but making lube and meth is already on shaky ground re: jobbanning. It's not hard for the guy at the window to delegate tasks to the other 2 chemists.

Regardless, I agree as far as the morgue goes. Move the 2 tables to either side of the morgue trays on the left side, remove the disposal (why is there a disposal in the fucking morgue), and line up more morgue trays on the right side. Then it's perfect.

I hope you're not suggesting that chemists will actually co-operate and work together to make someone's order, when there's only one front desk to use.
It's just not a good layout because it just splits the foyer into 2 seperate rooms for no particular reason. There are other ways to get some of these changes done, without radically changing the layout of medbay.

I throughly dislike the lack of a neither option, makes this a very bias poll.

Also option 2 chemistry has two maintenance shaft doors for no reason I can see (one of them is chem colours for some reason?)
Option 2 security's booth should be redesigned so it can view both areas is supposed to now be protecting (to which it has no easy route other than going all the way around to get to). You could put another door between the chem lobby and the inside of medbay. Would make more sense.

Frankly both layouts look really forced and the new morgue even more so, it just doesnt seem like it works. Plus why does it need 3 doors, 2 of which are external?
I'm all up for a change but It doesn't sit well like this imho.

it would help for goof to quote this in the op
THIS IS NOT A VOTE FOR CHANGING THE GOD DAMN MAP, ITS JUST WHAT LAYOUT YOU PREFER. THE CHANGE VOTE COMES AFTER THIS ONE JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
I MAPPED THE CHEM BOTTOM AND JUST AS AN FYI FUCK YOU FOR MAKING MY EFFORT GO TO WASTE, CHEM TOP IS QUEERSHIT

Meanwhile engineering hasn't had any serious changes since box was made. There's work that can done done there and yet people want to fuck up what might be the most well designed department.

Morgue gets used plenty, just because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't half full most roundS because the chef forgets they have access to it.

i reduced the morgue in size not because it isnt used, but because its use should be discouraged. if a body is truly truly uncloneable, why randomly store it? disposal it (hence the bin in the morgue) or send it to science so they can research the brain/borg it if still suspicious that the player returned. its 4 less trays, come the fuck on

allura wrote:i reduced the morgue in size not because it isnt used, but because its use should be discouraged. if a body is truly truly uncloneable, why randomly store it? disposal it (hence the bin in the morgue) or send it to science so they can research the brain/borg it if still suspicious that the player returned. its 4 less trays, come the fuck on

Why the fuck would you disposal a body instead of taking it to the kitchen?

swich around mourg and surgury locations in your new layout surgery never needed mantinence acsses anyway

As a cargo tech, if a body comes down disposals ever, I can usually guarantee a sec SWAT team breaking into your department in a few minutes.

Double so if you're moronic enough to disposal a husk/debrainee.


Also remove all those fucking rwalls and add windows into genetics, chem is a workplace not an autism fort.

Poll option, ya dad yadda

lumipharon wrote:There are other ways to get some of these changes done, without radically changing the layout of medbay.

Such as?

allura wrote:its 4 less trays, come the fuck on

There's room for 5 more. It doesn't have to remove any, so, uh, why do so?

I'm all for keeping things the way they are. Chems in a good spot that people can keep an eye on it so people just walking by can keep an eye on the chemist. Morgue is moved further away from the department that most uses the morgue. Also it looks like the maintenance closet in the service hall is now missing. We need that shit. Lightbulbs go out all the time and its good to have a box of spares nearby. Not to mention a spare tank of air and a water tank.

Both are bad but since we seem to have no choice otherwise I would suggest option 2 as chem has far more reason to have a public face than genetics.. The layout of genetics in both is straight out terrible however.

I throw my lot behind the "fuck ALL your proposed changes" party. An option along those lines would be rather helpful in the poll for instances where, god help us all, your design choices just aren't worth implementation.

Douk wrote:I throw my lot behind the "fuck ALL your proposed changes" party. An option along those lines would be rather helpful in the poll for instances where, god help us all, your design choices just aren't worth implementation.

THIS IS NOT FEEDBACK.

The thread is to say "Hey, here are two options. Which one is better?" If you don't like both, post constructive feedback on why you don't like them and (not necessary but appreciated) post what changes you would make.

"They're both shit" <--- Opinion
"They're both shit, and here's why" <--- Feedback

Learn the fucking difference and actually add to the conversation instead of creating more bullshit noise.

Per Jordie the thread's been pruned of everything off-topic, the empty quoting and the "it's shit" remarks. If you feel that your post was valuable, feel free to repost it with actual feedback instead of just "I don't like it".

iamgoofball wrote:Don't add an abstain option Jeb.

I'm not doing this poll to see "hey should we add it or not"

I'm doing it to see "which of these two would you prefer"

We all did provide feedback.

The lack of a NEITHER option makes the poll invalid.

That is my feedback.

Thank you Vekter.

So, one of the big things that people keep mentioning is that there's "no reason" for these changes. Considering he didn't provide any explanation in the OP, that's pretty understandable. I've talked to goofball and the design goals for these map updates are:

• Get more room for the currently-cramped chemistry.
• Third chemmaster setup/possibly 3rd chemist slot
• Access to the Science labs' Misc Testing Area to try out chemical grenades
• A greater focus/more freedom towards pyrotechnics experimentation over a pure focus on making medical supplies

It's a work in progress so don't let fine details like genetics not having separators between cloning/DNA mods and such put you off the idea.

Before anyone accuses me of RAWR FORCING MY SHIT DOWN THEIR MOUTHS or similar rhetoric, I admit there are problems like the morgue getting moved to a worse position. But the goal with changes should be compromise to reach a consensus, not "I don't like it, shut it down"!

Both options: Genetics is too fucking far away from the morgue, morgue is now even further away from the kitchen/robotics.

Option 1: "Hi welcome to corpse-mart, dump your bodies here!" It doesn't need a front desk, why is this even an option? At least people can yell at the nerds who push buttons for hulk instead of doing their job easier. Chemistry became even more of a fortress of solitude than before. They're already highly territorial (though for good reasons).

Option 2: Its now further from the rest of the station than previous, sure that's only 10-15 more tiles you have to walk to get your god patches but still. The window into the shower definitely wont be abused, nor is it strange to have a window into a shower. The extra wiggle room for chemists is nice but why 3 chemists? Cloning pod is too close to the top genetics console. Just plain bad.

tl;dr: Stop

Saegrimr wrote: Option 2: Its now further from the rest of the station than previous, sure that's only 10-15 more tiles you have to walk to get your god patches but still.

Well, that completely depends. It's closer if you're a botanist, chef, scientist, chaplain, or roboticist?

I don't like either of these. Current chem position is good because it means there is always someone who is watching the main entrance to medbay for injured people, even if no doctors are in the reception desk.

Furthermore, this feels like yet another instance of "change for the sake of change". The slightly-oversized morgue is not a problem.

Cheridan wrote:Well, that completely depends. It's closer if you're a botanist, chef, scientist, chaplain, or roboticist?

Depends on who you think would need medical attention the fastest. Them, or Security/Engineering/HoP line/Friday Night Fistfight Emporium, AKA "GET OUT OF MY CARGONIA HELP SEC"

Saegrimr wrote:

Cheridan wrote:Well, that completely depends. It's closer if you're a botanist, chef, scientist, chaplain, or roboticist?

Depends on who you think would need medical attention the fastest. Them, or Security/Engineering/HoP line/Friday Night Fistfight Emporium, AKA "GET OUT OF MY CARGONIA HELP SEC"

Botany, science, and robotics all rely heavily on Chemistry, so having it that much closer is a benefit for them.

If someone's gravely wounded, they go to medbay proper for treatment from a doctor, which is the same distance. If they're not gravely wounded then 10 steps doesn't really matter.

Cheridan wrote:

lumipharon wrote:There are other ways to get some of these changes done, without radically changing the layout of medbay.

Such as?

I literally made my suggestion in my first post. This change (ignoring genetics for a moment) is
A: making morgue smaller
B: Making chem larger

My suggestion, as stated before, was instead of moving everything around, keep the morgue where it is but make either the morgue, the mech bay (actually thinking about it, that wouldn't work so well, but you could reduce that storage room between the morgue and mech bay instead) or both a bit narrower. (Meta station also just made the mech bay smaller, and frankly it doesn't really need to be very large, just big enough to move a couple of mechs around)

This would then let you cut and paste the whole medbay foyer/secpost area slightly east, which means you can then fill the gap by making chem slightly wider.
If you want a 3rd chem slot, with this wider chemistry, you could have a north facing chem post, facing the corridor. This would mean you would have 3 chemistry posts, all with their own windoors/desks, rather then 1 between them, where the other two chemists would have to bump past the 3rd to get to it, which is awful and annoying.


Having chemistry where the morgue currently is, doesn't make any logical sense. The cloning lab deals with corpses, so is close to the morgue. Chemistry (usually) deals with injured people, who come to the lobby. With the proposed changes, you have 2 seperate lobby's, meaning if someone is looking to get healed, then rather then going to one catch all location, they have to go between two to get help. What is the reasoning behind this? What benefit is there in doing this?
Literally the ONLY reason I can think of in putting chemistry on the east side of medbay, is to let it connect to science like genetics does, because goonstation has chemistry as part of science not medical, and we're just porting their thing.

The layout of genetics as is, is already basically as good as you can expect. It's reasonably compact and right next to the morgue.
The argument that corpses should just be DUMPED DOWN DISPOSALS is quite seriously retarded. Now SS13 isn't the most realistic game, but holy shit, who the fuck would just be flushing corpses down the bin when you have a room DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY to hold them right there, which also serves as a corpse access point for other jobs?


Edit: Here's a 5 seconds in map editor alteration, to show what I mean. This gives extra space in chemistry for more tables or whatever to juggling around, or whatever the issue was with current chemistry, but the overall layout is completely the same.