Nerf Tabling

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Itseasytosee2me
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Nerf Tabling

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #656636

Oh tabling my beloved, don't think that I hate you
But the infinite matter in which you can transform any combat into a slow and miserable festival of slamming with no real counter play on the tabled's behalf is disheartening, and it makes aggressive grabs unprecedentedly powerful. (Not to say that grabs shouldn't be combat viable, but having such a win card restricts the method in which aggressive grabs can be aquired.)
The previous nerf of tabling did not accomplish its goal, and the fate of the tabled is sealed from the moment of the grab.

First you are grabbed aggressively, and the item in your hand is dropped (as is the nature of the aggressive grab). Perhaps if you move a tick before your opponent you have a single shot at a resist out of the grab, but it is all in all not good odds.
Then, before you may react further, you are thrust upon the table. knocked down for 4 seconds, dealt 40 staminia damage, and 10 brute damage.
Now perhaps you think you have a moment to react, perhaps even to escape, but unless the space on the table is opposite to your opponent, unlikely due to the fact that most tables in this game are against walls, you have no where to go that is beyond their reach.
Your speed is exceptional slow, not only because of the knock down but the 40 stamina damage.
Because you have no where to go, and you have no items in your hands, your only chance to escape is meager punch
You opponent, if they know what they are doing, can now infallibly grab you once more.
The second tabling will bring you to 80 stamina damage, meaning your movement speed is even slower.
After the 3 table you are stamcritted, and there is no chance for you.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
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blackdav123
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by blackdav123 » #656639

Itseasytosee2me wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:46 pm First you are grabbed aggressively,
skill issue
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JusticeGoat
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by JusticeGoat » #658599

I thought the tables broke after enough times? Maybe we should buff object damage and make it so tables break faster when you get tossed onto them?
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #658602

JusticeGoat wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:21 am I thought the tables broke after enough times? Maybe we should buff object damage and make it so tables break faster when you get tossed onto them?
I think that's only on neck grab slams.
If its more than 2 it will be enough to stam-crit someone, and at that point you could beat them to death anyways.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by oranges » #658649

How are you getting aggressively grabbed in combat when it requires you to not be moving?
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #658655

oranges wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:38 pm How are you getting aggressively grabbed in combat when it requires you to not be moving?
Orange, are you unaware that being shoved while you have the knockdown status effect paralyses for 3 whole seconds? Getting an aggressive grab of a shove only requires 1.8 seconds. .8 seconds for the cooldown of the shove, and 1 second for the cooldown off the grab. That leaves 1.2 seconds of wiggle room for non-optimal play. You don't even need high ping or skill really, you just need to know the technique and you can seal someones fate from the first shove.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by oranges » #658656

how is it any different from a stunbaton
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by toemas » #658657

You can stamcrit people just as easily without a table with just your hands and you can also just shovecuff, tables are a total non-issue
they are actually great because the fun part about combat in this game is that its environmental and you can use things around you to your advantage, if anything we should have more neat interactions like this
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by saprasam » #658660

Itseasytosee2me wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:46 pm wordz
i would like tabling more if breaking out of aggressive grabs didn't hardstun me for some who the fuck knows reason
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #658661

saprasam wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:44 pm
Itseasytosee2me wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:46 pm wordz
i would like tabling more if breaking out of aggressive grabs didn't hardstun me for some who the fuck knows reason
It's the move delay
- Sincerely itseasytosee
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #658662

oranges wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:28 pm how is it any different from a stunbaton
You can do it without sec gear
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blackdav123
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by blackdav123 » #658664

Itseasytosee2me wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:54 pm
oranges wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:38 pm How are you getting aggressively grabbed in combat when it requires you to not be moving?
Orange, are you unaware that being shoved while you have the knockdown status effect paralyses for 3 whole seconds? Getting an aggressive grab of a shove only requires 1.8 seconds. .8 seconds for the cooldown of the shove, and 1 second for the cooldown off the grab. That leaves 1.2 seconds of wiggle room for non-optimal play. You don't even need high ping or skill really, you just need to know the technique and you can seal someones fate from the first shove.
even if you land the combo the person can still escape if they manage to stand up before you can shove stun them and aggro grab them for the 2nd and 3rd tablings. IF you are on the receiving end of this combo all you need to do to end it is crawl under the person after they table you so they cant shove you again. If your attacker is lucky enough to land the shovestun every time they go to table you, then you probably should lose the fight.
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #658666

blackdav123 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 pm
Itseasytosee2me wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:54 pm
oranges wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:38 pm How are you getting aggressively grabbed in combat when it requires you to not be moving?
Orange, are you unaware that being shoved while you have the knockdown status effect paralyses for 3 whole seconds? Getting an aggressive grab of a shove only requires 1.8 seconds. .8 seconds for the cooldown of the shove, and 1 second for the cooldown off the grab. That leaves 1.2 seconds of wiggle room for non-optimal play. You don't even need high ping or skill really, you just need to know the technique and you can seal someones fate from the first shove.
even if you land the combo the person can still escape if they manage to stand up before you can shove stun them and aggro grab them for the 2nd and 3rd tablings. IF you are on the receiving end of this combo all you need to do to end it is crawl under the person after they table you so they cant shove you again. If your attacker is lucky enough to land the shovestun every time they go to table you, then you probably should lose the fight.
There movespeed it cucked by stamina loss and they will have no weapons in their hand, it is trivially easy to shove them twice. The second time you will have 80 stamina loss and escape becomes even more hopeless. After 3 its a stamcrit.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by Rohen_Tahir » #658667

blackdav123 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 pm
Itseasytosee2me wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:54 pm
oranges wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:38 pm How are you getting aggressively grabbed in combat when it requires you to not be moving?
Orange, are you unaware that being shoved while you have the knockdown status effect paralyses for 3 whole seconds? Getting an aggressive grab of a shove only requires 1.8 seconds. .8 seconds for the cooldown of the shove, and 1 second for the cooldown off the grab. That leaves 1.2 seconds of wiggle room for non-optimal play. You don't even need high ping or skill really, you just need to know the technique and you can seal someones fate from the first shove.
even if you land the combo the person can still escape if they manage to stand up before you can shove stun them and aggro grab them for the 2nd and 3rd tablings. IF you are on the receiving end of this combo all you need to do to end it is crawl under the person after they table you so they cant shove you again. If your attacker is lucky enough to land the shovestun every time they go to table you, then you probably should lose the fight.
I think you are correct because I did this on Terry a lot and it worked.
Last edited by Rohen_Tahir on Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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blackdav123
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by blackdav123 » #658668

Tabling is one of the hardest, slowest, and most fun ways to fight someone. Giving anybody a chance in combat if they play their cards right is why it is such a good addition. If you want to go after a bullshit low effort infinite stun get rid of the shovestun into endless firelock smashes combo.
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by terranaut » #658706

remember when you could place a table, grab someone and table them in under 1 second (lag permitting) and be rewarded with a pretty long hardstun
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Re: Nerf Tabling

Post by NecromancerAnne » #658717

Itseasytosee2me wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:57 pm
saprasam wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:44 pm
Itseasytosee2me wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:46 pm wordz
i would like tabling more if breaking out of aggressive grabs didn't hardstun me for some who the fuck knows reason
It's the move delay
To clarify this further:

Aggressive grabs restrain you. Your only option is to resist, either with the resist button or by trying to move. Restraining loke this is a softer version of being cuffed, hence why you can resist but you have no hand use.

When you make this attempt, it rolls for success. Your current grab state, and whether you are prone, determine success. From a baseline of 60% at Aggressive Grab, every increased grab state divides your chance further. Neck grab divides it by half, and Choking by a third. Being prone increases this state by one step (so a choking grab while they are prone reduces this by a fourth). This is why, if you keep elevating the grab state on someone if they fail their first resist attempt, they are basically done for. I hope you win that d100 roll and didn't lag for 1.4 seconds.

When you fail to break a grab, you are dealt any amount of stamina damage between 15 to 20. This also causes you to be unable to resist again for 4 seconds. Now, this isn't a stun in the traditional sense. No stimulants will help here. You're stuck for 4 seconds.

Gamer facts: leather golems instantly aggrograb. As does anyone using CQC (you can break out of this as normal).

CQC has a special grab that procs from combo'ing Grab Grab called Restrain. This actually stuns you for 10 seconds, and doesn't end when the grab ends, which is why people say they have an 'unbreakable' grab. Funny to use against people in the kitchen, they're stuck standing there while you repeatedly refresh the stun, but they can scream and yell all they like.
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