[Deleted] Dealing with issues IC or OOC

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Floiven
 
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Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby Floiven » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:10 am #477925

One of the main themes of the issues that I've seen arising lately are the arguments for and against problems being solved in game via gameplay mechanics and character interaction, or elevating the issue to online admins in order to ask for intervention. I personally believe that the vast majority of issues that occur in game between people should be solved in game as much as possible, either through encouragement of player interaction, player roles offered such as inspection/disciplinary agents, and admin communications to the involved delivered as messages from Centcomm and other in game entities. Creatively finding a way to resolve a conflict that gives a hand to the wronged party as well as making a round interesting by adding additional elements that the rest of the crew can interact with is a daunting task, but one that I think that DMs should be trying to actively promote.

Where do you think the limit of in game solutions and admin intervention should be drawn, and do you think that the current level of admin rulings placed on individuals is fine, should be handed out more liberally, or should be scaled back and dealt with in a different manner? Should people be encouraged to ahelp every transgression that they feel is unfair, or do you think that a shift to requesting assistance from other departments or things like in game consoles and messaging should be promoted instead? Is this realistic?

Thank you for your answers.



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Re: Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:17 am #477934

Admin interference should be as minimal as possible.

We have a security force to deal with low level shithead assistants causing problems.

We have multiple ways to get back into the round if you die, often with fancy loot, special skills, or other bonuses over being a basic crewmember, that still allow you to rejoin the station.

Admins should step in only when a situation reaches a critical point, or when a significant amount of users are filing complaints.

An action not taken does not cost nearly as much as an action taken incorrectly.

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Re: Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby MortoSasye » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:29 am #477940

Hello, thanks for your question!

While what you desire is something noble and that I personally like, I don’t think it’s possible for most issues to be handled ic if we want things to be fair + we’re a low rp server. Like I said in the escalation policy thread, while I would love for most things to not require admin intervention, people breaking rule 1 shouldn’t get away with it being solved icly all the time since this only makes them think that what they’re doing is ok.

Where do you think the limit of in game solutions and admin intervention should be drawn?

When it becomes extremely obnoxious and it’s a behavior that the player repeats constantly just to bother others, OR it starts breaking the rules.

Do you think that the current level of admin rulings placed on individuals is fine, should be handed out more liberally, or should be scaled back and dealt with in a different manner?


Admin rulings change from case to case. If a player is new and commits a mistake they will usually get warned, if it’s someone with more experience but no previous bad behavior they will get a note, and so on. But, to keep it simple, I would say it’s fine the way it is now.

Should people be encouraged to ahelp every transgression that they feel is unfair, or do you think that a shift to requesting assistance from other departments or things like in game consoles and messaging should be promoted instead?

Unless it’s a player blatantly breaking the rules or being a dick to you for the sake of being a dick without any other purpose behind their actions, then I would encourage people to solve things icly when possible otherwise they should ahelp instead of staying quiet so admins can look into it.

Is this realistic?

In real life when you get something stolen you would report it to the police. But there are rounds in which the security staff does not exist, and if you end up trying to get the stolen object back you could end up dying. So no, I don’t think it’s realistic but admin intervention is a requirement for players to enjoy their round without other players ruining it.
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Re: Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby subject217 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:32 am #477943

Solving issues ICly is always nice, if it makes sense. There are two major bumps you run into doing this. One, if it's something that happens consistently between rounds or any recourse that can be taken against someone IC is not good enough, OOC solutions are the only solution. Two, you oftentimes are damaging immersion by doing this. There are obvious implications like giving people aheal revives as a solution to any IC fight where people die (which we do anyway sometimes) but also this sort of policy has wider reaching implications to the way that people on /tg/ station play in general. Most people here don't want to play on a server where everyone acts like a murder monkey, and trying to solve everything ICly would not help with that concern whatsoever.
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Re: Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby RogueSteampunker » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:35 am #477948

Issues within the game should generally be handled ICly until they become far too destructive or encroach too closely to breaking the rules. Case in point, we shouldn't be having admins bwoinking people for breaking in places and causing a small fist fight, but a player regularly causing such issues and being a nuisance should be addressed. There's a line between merely being an issue for sec and being an issue for playing the game, and it will need to be discussed just where that needs to be drawn specifically.

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Re: Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby D&B » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:37 am #477949

One of the main themes of the issues that I've seen arising lately are the arguments for and against problems being solved in game via gameplay mechanics and character interaction, or elevating the issue to online admins in order to ask for intervention. I personally believe that the vast majority of issues that occur in game between people should be solved in game as much as possible, either through encouragement of player interaction, player roles offered such as inspection/disciplinary agents, and admin communications to the involved delivered as messages from Centcomm and other in game entities.


If someone ahelps asking for intervention, the only outcome should be the admin ruling. Revival, respawning, or giving a role to someone in order to fix the issue only worsens the situation because now you've given the aggrieved party an avenue to enact revenge AND you're also (more likely than not) noting or banning the ahelped person for breaking rules.

Is it a ruined round if someone kills you unfairly? Yes, but we have two more servers and myriad of ghost roles for you to enjoy. While yes, creating events out of conflicts can be a fun way to contribute to the round, ultimately the situation in which you ask for intervention should culminate in the intervention, so as to allow the rest of the round (and the stories of the other people playing) to continue organically.

Where do you think the limit of in game solutions and admin intervention should be drawn, and do you think that the current level of admin rulings placed on individuals is fine, should be handed out more liberally, or should be scaled back and dealt with in a different manner? Should people be encouraged to ahelp every transgression that they feel is unfair, or do you think that a shift to requesting assistance from other departments or things like in game consoles and messaging should be promoted instead? Is this realistic?


While I do feel the current system and implementation are good, a growing concern is the weaponization of admins by people that have oft decided to start their own problems. Players should be encouraged to be informed in the rules and ahelp if they feel the situation calls for it, but to do so knowing that this is an imperfect game based on players having imperfect information about imperfect situations.
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Floiven
 
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Re: Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby Floiven » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:41 am #477956

Thank you for the responses.

To clarify, the last question "Is this realistic?" is in regards to the previous question "Should people be encouraged to ahelp every transgression that they feel is unfair, or do you think that a shift to requesting assistance from other departments or things like in game consoles and messaging should be promoted instead?" being a realistic expectation or not.

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Re: Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby subject217 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:59 am #477973

If you ask for help from an admin ICly and it actually makes sense and isn't unfair for the round (like, centcom messages) I really don't mind giving help ICly. A lot of admins aren't necessarily paying 100% attention to everything that goes on all the time except for bwoinks. There's no hard and fast policy on this so it's up to the individual admin's personality, and I think a fair number of us do vary on this.The point where you ahelp something IMO is where you can't deal with it ICly yourself or it's not being dealt with by other people and you do think it constitutes an OOC issue.

The point of rules is to keep the game fun for the people playing it. I know it's nebulous, but when it crosses the "OOC issue line" is mostly where I'd say it becomes a problem worth ahelping. Usually that sort of case is when someone is being removed from a round permanently or for a long period of time for unjustifiable reasons, or when someone is causing massive amounts of havoc as a non antag, or when something is a relatively minor but consistent issue with a player across multiple rounds that always makes the game worse for other people.
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Re: Dealing with issues IC or OOC

Postby Hulkamania » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:07 am #477981

I don't think people should ever be afraid to ahelp, at all. Admins are there to help be it with mechanics questions or rule breaking scenarios. I want to say the line is most generally around the "did it mess with your round in an irreversible or excessive manner?"

If the answer is yes, then it might be an ahelp issue, and even if nothing ends up coming from it there's no harm in trying. The flip side of this is that I don't think you should ever ahelp for another player. I see fairly often people say "x just killed y." You can encourage that player to ahelp if you think that they should, but typically if someone actually involved in the situation doesn't feel like it warrants admin intervention, then it doesn't.


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