[Deleted] The Admin recruiting Process

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Not-Dorsidarf
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The Admin recruiting Process

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:20 am #478104

Currently, as was brought up recently, the process of becoming an admin is both unclear and by manual selection only. AdminTrainers pick players they like the look of or were recommended by other admins and offer them the chance to become an admin. (Alternatively players might directly contact an admintrainer and ask to be candidated), and this isn’t made clear anywhere in the community.

ORIGINAL, SOMEWHAT BIASED POINTS ->
Spoiler:
Do you feel that this closed-doors invite-only process continues to be appropriate instead of a public & official applications system?
If so, why?
Do you feel that this creates a clique-like environment between admins or not?

If you think that it is not appropriate , how would you like to change the process of recruiting admin

Edit: less leading question:

1: do you feel that the current ad-hoc selection system is more appropriate than a forum-based written application?
2: If so, why?
3: If not, how would you change the process of admin recruitment

4: Do you think that the current invite-only method of trainers taking recommendations from other admins has any controlling or adverse relation on the admin population?

Edit 2: For good measure:

5: Do you think there should be more information available to players about how the adminning process works/ How admins are chosen?
Last edited by Not-Dorsidarf on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
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subject217
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Re: The Admin recruiting Process

Postby subject217 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:32 am #478109

Do you feel that this closed-doors invite-only process continues to be appropriate instead of a public & official applications system? If so, why?
There are no issues with it. Applications are a drama magnet and have a tendency to attract people who shouldn't be admins.

Do you feel that this creates a clique-like environment between admins or not?
No, it doesn't, and that's on the people who are choosing candidates and the headmins approving them. I can't think of a single candidate that fit this description in any way for ages.

If you think that it is not appropriate , how would you like to change the process of recruiting admin?
See above. Other servers wish they could pick and choose people from their existing player base, it's a luxury that /tg/ has. Watching applications for stuff like TGMC taught me a lot about this.
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Hulkamania
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Re: The Admin recruiting Process

Postby Hulkamania » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:54 am #478120

I personally feel there isn't much wrong with the selection process unless anyone can cite some completely egregious situations brought about by our current situation. The admin observer/candidate period allows us to get a real feel for any given candidate and their entire trial period allows players to make any real criticisms known in their feedback/trial review threads.

The process of choosing can definitely be argued to be nepotism but when you have a team that you trust why not leave it up to them to select good people? Everyone generally has their opportunity to say they like or don't like a candidate, although players don't get to see this as it happens in admin-bus.

To answer the questions: Forum-based applications can say a lot about a player but I'd rather rely on the admin-trainers and rest of the admin team to pick suitable candidates. They do a good enough job as is (think of how many people have actually been deadmined after becoming a trial) and everyone has ample chance to say that they do/don't like that person. Being more transparent to the players isn't necessarily a bad idea, but usually the whole process boils down to "I've been watching this person for a while and they seem responsible and have no bad notes."

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MortoSasye
 
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Re: The Admin recruiting Process

Postby MortoSasye » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:56 am #478122

1. No, i would much prefer a forum based application

3. There are some players who even if they’re active and have a good reputation, are not that popular and due to that are hidden jewels. I would love for them to be able to participate if they wish to become an admin.

I would like to create a new thread where they could fill a form to offer themselves for the position if interested so admin trainers could pick them if they fulfill the requisites. Said requisites would be to be active, have a good reputation, good knowledge about the rules and not have a bad history (aka full of bad notes/bans on recent times)

4. Yes, since it means that if you want to become an admin you have to be noticed by one first.

5. Definitely, so they can get informed if they desire to become an admin.
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Re: The Admin recruiting Process

Postby subject217 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:15 am #481402

MortoSasye wrote:There are some players who even if they’re active and have a good reputation, are not that popular and due to that are hidden jewels. I would love for them to be able to participate if they wish to become an admin.

How is this different from how it plays out in the current system whatsoever? Do you think admin trainers just candidate people who are popular and not shitters? Do you think that nobody ever asks to become an admin? Because neither of these statements are true and how popular someone is has zero relevance on whether or not they become an admin. It's certainly somewhat easier to notice popular players who are good but that's not what an admin trainer is looking for necessarily.

I would like to create a new thread where they could fill a form to offer themselves for the position if interested so admin trainers could pick them if they fulfill the requisites. Said requisites would be to be active, have a good reputation, good knowledge about the rules and not have a bad history (aka full of bad notes/bans on recent times)

Okay, is this binary, within reason? Oftentimes this becomes a matter of opinion. Someone can have a "good reputation" but still make a bad admin. Encouraging these people to solicit admin and requiring them to be refused publicly only serves to create grief.
4. Yes, since it means that if you want to become an admin you have to be noticed by one first.

Again, this begs the same question. What do you know about what admin trainers are looking for? Because the impression you give seems naive to me. There is a lot more to it than "popular people get candidated".
5. Definitely, so they can get informed if they desire to become an admin.

This honestly depends on what you have in mind when Dorsi says "how admins are chosen". I don't feel like either the question or the response are detailed enough to elicit a real reply so if you don't mind I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on this.

Furthermore, there are a series of questions that the phrase "admin application forum thread" brings up. Who is going to deal with these? The headmins or admin trainers? Both? Are the people posting in the thread obligated to a reply of any sort? If not, how is that any better than the current system? If so, how do you expect this to work when admin trainers basically work at their own pace, and as they deem is necessary? What's the time obligation for replies? Are other people allowed to comment with their opinions/experiences of the person asking to become an admin? If not, then why would the applications themselves be public in the first place?
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Arianya
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Re: The Admin recruiting Process

Postby Arianya » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:45 am #481405

1: do you feel that the current ad-hoc selection system is more appropriate than a forum-based written application?
Yes, I believe so. Not to say there isn't room for expansion at all, but...

2: If so, why?
Adminning is more then just knowing the tools and how to use them (something that realistically can be taught to almost anyone). It's having the right sort of personality to deal with tickets, and the thought process to be able to mull over very often grey-area problems when you may not have anyone else to bounce your thoughts off.

The way the system currently works is good in that admin trainers candidate people who they think are well suited to the role, and then undergo training and test runs with the trainer before they even hit trial, during which the most obvious issues can be spotted. Trial Admins are then reviewed at 2 months to see how well they function, during which more subtle problems can be spotted (and quite possibly remedied by the trialadmin, if they're open to critique).

The current system creates a steady flow of new candidates and trial admins, with a generally low level of failed trials or deadminnings. An application process would undoubtedly bring new administrators to the team that would be worth having, but it would also create friction points for anyone who failed this application process, as well as adding substantial workload to headmins & admin trainers (if you want a taste of what that might look like, TGMC's admin applications are a good idea of the kind of depths you have to delve).

3: If not, how would you change the process of admin recruitment
Publicizing information on how the process works more openly would definitely be beneficial.

4: Do you think that the current invite-only method of trainers taking recommendations from other admins has any controlling or adverse relation on the admin population?
It's a fairly well acknowledged point that admin trainers tend to bring in candidates similar to themselves. This is in part why trainers are a headmin assigned position, since it allows for good admins with ability to train to bring in more people. So in that sense it does have a "controlling" relation, but not a negative connotation as I think you thought? Certainly there exists potential to join the team even if none of the AdminTrainers personally view you as a viable candidate, as HeadAdmins and GameMasters also carry that ability to candidate people.

5: Do you think there should be more information available to players about how the adminning process works/ How admins are chosen?
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PostThis post was deleted by Nilons on Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:30 am.
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wubli
 
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Re: The Admin recruiting Process

Postby wubli » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:00 pm #481467

I believe the system we have works perfectly.
Anyone in the team can suggest a candidate, they post it on the admin forum (usually with a short explanation and connection count). Any game master, headmin or trainer (usually us), even if they are not personally interested in the person, will decide to train them with the approval of headmins (who will scarcely say no if other admins agreed). Any person can also ask to become an admin, and the procedure is the same.
I don't believe having to spend even more time on the forums trying to explain to someone why you don't think they're fit for the job so they can get mad at you won't do any better. It isn't impossible to become an admin without being buddypals with a trainer, gm or headmin; I have only candidated people I either barely interacted with outside of the game, or not even in game -like Suede Falcon, who I candidated because of someone's suggestion-.
If anything, the only problem with it is that people aren't aware of how it works, so it might seem like "candidate your friends club", which is not. Even if an admin dislikes you and doesn't think you're good, there's the rest of us who will still keep you in mind.
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