[Deleted] Ban Log Transparency

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bman
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Ban Log Transparency

Postby bman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:45 am #478142

What it says on the tin, do you want more transparency aka any one can see the log of bans that were handed on a given day, or do you want to keep them hidden, and why?
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MortoSasye
 
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Re: Ban Log Transparency

Postby MortoSasye » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:06 am #478183

I don't think a public ban log would be possible without it bringing issues like the banned players getting shamed in public, harassment, etc. While it would give players the chance to better know which things get punished each day, i consider it would bring more issues than benefits.
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Re: Ban Log Transparency

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:10 am #478186

full transparency all the way

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Hulkamania
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Re: Ban Log Transparency

Postby Hulkamania » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:46 pm #478353

I'm actually in favor of ban logs in regards to permanent bans. All the personal information taken out other than the ban reason and ckey, of course. I think it would allow the community to know when someone who's been a major problem for a long period of time has been taken care of, it shows that the admin team is in fact working in ways that some people might not directly notice, and it serves as somewhat of a warning towards other people who may have emulated that person's behaviour in game.

That being said word usually gets around about a persons bans anyway, they are fully allowed to post on the forums and discord about their banning and I think that system is wonderful. Players ALWAYS have a platform to speak if they think something unjust has occurred.

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Re: Ban Log Transparency

Postby subject217 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:48 pm #478384

I think that /tg/ station has a culture of people who don't actually have any interest in the game itself and only exist here to hang on to the community and consume/produce drama. And like it or not ban logs are primarily enabling those people, at the expense of the people who are actually making the bans (and notes, although you don't explicitly mention notes here), as well as sometimes the people who are being banned. It's easy to talk about public shaming or things like that but I think a lot of people who are mostly good players are quite embarrassed and ashamed of the notes or bans that they managed to collect as is, and I don't think they'd want or need extra derision. And when I say "at the expense of the admins" I don't mean that accountability is a bad thing, I mean that there are a number of people whose only interest is to stir shit and make people argue and fight about non-issues and giving these people more tools is absolutely a big mistake.

On /tg/ station our accountability comes from the fact that if someone has a problem with their note or ban, they can appeal it publicly. They don't need other people to do so on their behalf. And lots of players who don't mind already talk about their bans. Lots of admins already talk about bans, especially when it's something noteworthy like a player everyone really disliked getting permabanned.

An easy comparison to make is /vg/ station, which does have public bans, but they also have a different ruleset and quite frankly a considerably different community compared to /tg/, which is what leads me to believe public bans are incompatible with /tg/ station.

I've yet to see someone make an argument to the contrary that I found compelling in this regard, but in the event that that were to happen I understand the benefits of public ban logs with regards to player understanding of the rules as well as transparency and oversight.
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Re: Ban Log Transparency

Postby D&B » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:17 am #478428

Sadly due to current and past events involving strong backlash regarding administrators from people banned and delicate situations that would only explode in drama, I don't believe it is prudent to promise a rework in transparency until a more safe framework to ensure the safety of the volunteers that uphold the rules is in place.

I do believe a banned person and those involved should be able to request and receive information about their process, circumstance and relevant information.
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Re: Ban Log Transparency

Postby Nervere » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:01 am #478526

Repukan’s position is on the right track but I’d like to elaborate with my own view.
A public ban log is something that would be ideal for more transparency to the playerbase, but you must consider several things.

Firstly:
Just a week or so ago, I made a thread in the admin forums about this very idea. Some people are strongly in favor of the idea, and others are very opposed. Both sides have their merits: the upside is transparency and the downside is that there is often sensitive personal information in bans that would be utterly reckless to retroactively make public.

Secondly:
You can’t implement public bans without the full approval of most admins. Why? They’re the one making the bans. If they’re not comfortable with their previous and future bans being public, they’ll simply stop banning people or, more likely, resign. Given that my current thread in the admin forums has admins pretty split on this matter, I don’t foresee public bans becoming practical in the near future.

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Re: Ban Log Transparency

Postby BeeSting12 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:03 pm #478936

I personally would be in favor of them, but unless all the admins are in favor, it wouldn't work for the reasons Nervere listed.
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